PG: Awful gameplan, not prepared, not 1 good performance

[whocares1]

I wrote this in the G2 thread in response to the same concern:

I would say that I agree that deuce should start over hart but you are seriously underestimating how impactful Josh’s rebounding ability really is.

I’m listening…

His rebounding ability has led to many second and third chance opportunities for himself and teammates. If Mikal or OG were decent rebounders on the wing maybe it would make more sense but KAT needing to defend a perimeter player increases the dependency on Hart’s rebounding ability. His 3 point shooting hasn’t even been that bad this series either. If anything the problem has been Mikal and not Josh but that’s another discussion.

[Guano]

Sering the highlights of mathurin run over shamet, Naismith toss Brunson, Pascal holding OG to get an offense board, and Hali mocking pisses me off.

Not cause its wrong but because they've bullied us and were going out soft. We need some dogs on our team. And not from the last guy on the bench.

[MrDollarBills]

A lucky bounce is crazy. That's not why we lost. It was an historical collapse. I understand that making this far was an accomplishment, that's why I said losing how we are feels like a failure. We squandered our opportunity. It seems like we were just okay with making to the ECF and what most are saying is that you don't get many opportunities like this.

There are zero guarantees that we get this far with the team healthy next year. Look at how Boston and Cleveland went down.

This is absolutely a blown opportunity. That's why this is soul crushing

It’s not soul crushing at all relax lol. Everyone said the same thing when the Heat upsetted the Bucks and then the Knicks lost to the Heat in 6.

Even if the Knicks made the Finals there is no way in hell you think this team even has a chance against OKC after what they just did to the Wolves and everyone else in their path. Just getting to the Finals isn’t the goal.

It is to me. I'd rather make it to the Finals and lose to a superior team then flame out to the Pacers like this. Especially when we had them dead to rights in Game 1. That seriously hurts.

Nothing is guaranteed. There is no certainty that we can get back here again next year. Taking opportunities for granted is not my MO.

[HerSports85]

There are zero guarantees that we get this far with the team healthy next year. Look at how Boston and Cleveland went down.

This is absolutely a blown opportunity. That's why this is soul crushing

It’s not soul crushing at all relax lol. Everyone said the same thing when the Heat upsetted the Bucks and then the Knicks lost to the Heat in 6.

Even if the Knicks made the Finals there is no way in hell you think this team even has a chance against OKC after what they just did to the Wolves and everyone else in their path. Just getting to the Finals isn’t the goal.

It is to me. I'd rather make it to the Finals and lose to a superior team then flame out to the Pacers like this. Especially when we had them dead to rights in Game 1. That seriously hurts.

Nothing is guaranteed. There is no certainty that we can get back here again next year. Taking opportunities for granted is not my MO.

Exactly MB. And obviously the team knows that we dropped the ball as well

Read on Twitter

[whocares1]

There are zero guarantees that we get this far with the team healthy next year. Look at how Boston and Cleveland went down.

This is absolutely a blown opportunity. That's why this is soul crushing

It’s not soul crushing at all relax lol. Everyone said the same thing when the Heat upsetted the Bucks and then the Knicks lost to the Heat in 6.

Even if the Knicks made the Finals there is no way in hell you think this team even has a chance against OKC after what they just did to the Wolves and everyone else in their path. Just getting to the Finals isn’t the goal.

It is to me. I'd rather make it to the Finals and lose to a superior team then flame out to the Pacers like this. Especially when we had them dead to rights in Game 1. That seriously hurts.

Nothing is guaranteed. There is no certainty that we can get back here again next year. Taking opportunities for granted is not my MO.

I just think a lot of Knicks fans underestimated the Pacers. They have a better deeper team. They have a better coach and they play at their pace not ours. A lot people assumed that Knicks were better and that clearly wasn’t the case. If we are being honest, if Tyrese didn’t forgot how to shoot for a whole month this past season, Pacers wouldn’t have fallen out of the radar so much.

[HopelessKnick]

This is exactly why, although a feat we have not achieved in 25 years, reaching the ECF and going out like this feels like failure.

Read on Twitter

this is such bs. If any other team had this run after such a long time, but with us its "lol knicks - how embarassing".
Even if we go out I will always remember this season as a great success.

It's not "how embarassing"....it feels like an underachievement because we beat Boston and Cleveland lost and we were at full health against Indiana with HCA so it feels like we should have made the finals.

I think the positive feelings will quickly vanish once 3-4 years from now the landscape has changed, one or two teams in the east have formed that are just better than us and beat us repeatedly in the second round. Because ultimately what you are looking at with the combination of these players and this coach is a second round team. A second round team that got lucky this year to make it to the ECF. Then you will realize that this season and series against Indy was a missed opportunity and not something you will be looking at joyfully but a missed opportunity that will only show up maybe once a decade or less.

[G_K_F]

Sering the highlights of mathurin run over shamet, Naismith toss Brunson, Pascal holding OG to get an offense board, and Hali mocking pisses me off.

Not cause its wrong but because they've bullied us and were going out soft. We need some dogs on our team. And not from the last guy on the bench.

We knew they're soft. They've been soft all year. They're just been exposed more now that the playoffs are 'grittier'.

[spree8]

I would say that I agree that deuce should start over hart but you are seriously underestimating how impactful Josh’s rebounding ability really is.

I’m listening…

His rebounding ability has led to many second and third chance opportunities for himself and teammates. If Mikal or OG were decent rebounders on the wing maybe it would make more sense but KAT needing to defend a perimeter player increases the dependency on Hart’s rebounding ability. His 3 point shooting hasn’t even been that bad this series either. If anything the problem has been Mikal and not Josh but that’s another discussion.

Oh, I thought you had some data on his rebounding impact that could be weighed against what Deuce brings to the starting lineup.

It’s not so much about Hart’s 3pt%… it’s about the ones he doesn’t take that end up costing us dearly. It’s also about how the defense knows this and leaves him open to put more defensive pressure on Jalen.

When you look at his ORB #’s… at best he’s giving us a chance at 2-5ppg extra, figuring he’s giving 2 ORB’s, and that 1/3 of our FGA’s are 3pt FGA’s, and we shoot 45% FG and 35% 3pt.

But it’s not like we’re talking about him not being able to do this during the game, he’ll still get his 30+ mpg to contribute. It’s about what’s best for the starting unit.

And with that, how much better would our starting defense be with Deuce in there (who is a better defender than Hart) especially at the POA, and how much better would Mikal be guarding the wing? How do you even begin to translate that into points taken away from the opposing team?

Then you have to add in how much more efficient Jalen would be without being doubled. How many more points get put on the board with Deuce making them pay for trying with his no hesitation quick trigger 3’s?

How much more effective would Mikal be having Hart’s opportunities to advance the ball? Putting the ball in his hands more gives him more confidence, keeps him in rhythm more, and more engaged instead of getting cold standing in the corner. How many more points does this translate to when factoring in improved efficiency for him?

I’m not underestimating Hart’s rebounding… I’m simply saying that while it’s nice, it pales in comparison to all of the other improvements that we could see in the starting unit. Like a million dollars is great, but a billion is far better. Doesn’t mean I’m underestimating a million lol.

[whocares1]

I’m listening…

His rebounding ability has led to many second and third chance opportunities for himself and teammates. If Mikal or OG were decent rebounders on the wing maybe it would make more sense but KAT needing to defend a perimeter player increases the dependency on Hart’s rebounding ability. His 3 point shooting hasn’t even been that bad this series either. If anything the problem has been Mikal and not Josh but that’s another discussion.

Oh, I thought you had some data on his rebounding impact that could be weighed against what Deuce brings to the starting lineup.

It’s not so much about Hart’s 3pt%… it’s about the ones he doesn’t take that end up costing us dearly. It’s also about how the defense knows this and leaves him open to put more defensive pressure on Jalen.

When you look at his ORB #’s… at best he’s giving us a chance at 2-5ppg extra, figuring he’s giving 2 ORB’s, and that 1/3 of our FGA’s are 3pt FGA’s, and we shoot 45% FG and 35% 3pt.

But it’s not like we’re talking about him not being able to do this during the game, he’ll still get his 30+ mpg to contribute. It’s about what’s best for the starting unit.

And with that, how much better would our starting defense be with Deuce in there (who is a better defender than Hart) especially at the POA, and how much better would Mikal be guarding the wing? How do you even begin to translate that into points taken away from the opposing team?

Then you have to add in how much more efficient Jalen would be without being doubled. How many more points get put on the board with Deuce making them pay for trying with his no hesitation quick trigger 3’s?

How much more effective would Mikal be having Hart’s opportunities to advance the ball? Putting the ball in his hands more gives him more confidence, keeps him in rhythm more, and more engaged instead of getting cold standing in the corner. How many more points does this translate to when factoring in improved efficiency for him?

I’m not underestimating Hart’s rebounding… I’m simply saying that while it’s nice, it pales in comparison to all of the other improvements that we could see in the starting unit. Like a million dollars is great, but a billion is far better. Doesn’t mean I’m underestimating a million lol.

I agree with your overall sentiment for sure. I think the stat sheet might say 2-5 offensive rebounds but the deflections and the times his activity leads to others on the team getting a defensive rebound or preventing the other team from getting loose balls adds to his value.

I think I just don’t see Bridges as highly as you. I don’t believe this Knicks team is better with Bridges having more ball handling responsibilities and I don’t see Bridges being a better passer than Hart either. I do believe that running a 5 out offense would help Brunson and Towns tremendously but Bridges is just not that guy to take on the extra ball handling responsibilities if you’re going to bench Hart.

[spree8]

His rebounding ability has led to many second and third chance opportunities for himself and teammates. If Mikal or OG were decent rebounders on the wing maybe it would make more sense but KAT needing to defend a perimeter player increases the dependency on Hart’s rebounding ability. His 3 point shooting hasn’t even been that bad this series either. If anything the problem has been Mikal and not Josh but that’s another discussion.

Oh, I thought you had some data on his rebounding impact that could be weighed against what Deuce brings to the starting lineup.

It’s not so much about Hart’s 3pt%… it’s about the ones he doesn’t take that end up costing us dearly. It’s also about how the defense knows this and leaves him open to put more defensive pressure on Jalen.

When you look at his ORB #’s… at best he’s giving us a chance at 2-5ppg extra, figuring he’s giving 2 ORB’s, and that 1/3 of our FGA’s are 3pt FGA’s, and we shoot 45% FG and 35% 3pt.

But it’s not like we’re talking about him not being able to do this during the game, he’ll still get his 30+ mpg to contribute. It’s about what’s best for the starting unit.

And with that, how much better would our starting defense be with Deuce in there (who is a better defender than Hart) especially at the POA, and how much better would Mikal be guarding the wing? How do you even begin to translate that into points taken away from the opposing team?

Then you have to add in how much more efficient Jalen would be without being doubled. How many more points get put on the board with Deuce making them pay for trying with his no hesitation quick trigger 3’s?

How much more effective would Mikal be having Hart’s opportunities to advance the ball? Putting the ball in his hands more gives him more confidence, keeps him in rhythm more, and more engaged instead of getting cold standing in the corner. How many more points does this translate to when factoring in improved efficiency for him?

I’m not underestimating Hart’s rebounding… I’m simply saying that while it’s nice, it pales in comparison to all of the other improvements that we could see in the starting unit. Like a million dollars is great, but a billion is far better. Doesn’t mean I’m underestimating a million lol.

I agree with your overall sentiment for sure. I think the stat sheet might say 2-5 offensive rebounds but the deflections and the times his activity leads to others on the team getting a defensive rebound or preventing the other team from getting loose balls adds to his value.

I think I just don’t see Bridges as highly as you. I don’t believe this Knicks team is better with Bridges having more ball handling responsibilities and I don’t see Bridges being a better passer than Hart either. I do believe that running a 5 out offense would help Brunson and Towns tremendously but Bridges is just not that guy to take on the extra ball handling responsibilities if you’re going to bench Hart.

Yea, sucks because day 1 I felt like Thibs wasn’t using him properly. I always felt that with our personnel along with being reunited with the Nova guys, that Mikal on defense (guarding the wing not POA full time) would be like he was in PHX, and on offense (used more on ball) would be like he was in BK his first year.

[K_ick_God]

Even if we just look at how making life harder on him has been successful to wear JB down, which was the evident approach of teams this season (picking him up 90 feet, not calling timeouts, longer defenders), what did Thibs do to counter that? I can’t think of one thing

It was the opponents’ approach long ago, and foreseeable that it would catch up to JB in the playoffs

[sol537]

Thibs hasn't been using KAT or Mikal properly all season long.

He also has been overusing Josh Hart (and Mikal) at the expense of developing depth.

Lastly, his game one choke job itself is a fire-able offense.

[CharlesOakley]

I thought Thibs was a defensive coach. We have the personnel to be an above average defense or better but we are losing games due to poor defense. Get this bum out of here.