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DaGawd wrote:Enzo954 wrote:Is it just me or am I suddenly noticing posters who I haven't seen all seasons suddenly appear once Thibs got fired? I don't recognize many people in this thread.
usually how it goes once the off season excitement starts
?
Enzo954 wrote:DaGawd wrote:Enzo954 wrote:Is it just me or am I suddenly noticing posters who I haven't seen all seasons suddenly appear once Thibs got fired? I don't recognize many people in this thread.
usually how it goes once the off season excitement starts
Best season in 25 years, ECF's and posters were M.I.A the entire time but show up for Thibs getting fired? I don't get it...lol
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:Susan wrote:E-Balla wrote:This is because Thibs has no offensive system so PGs by default get to play their game. Thibs offensive coaching is ass, make no mistakes.
Go back and read the Bulls board from back then. They thought we were going to be champs once he left. THREE PLAYOFF VICTORIES IN A DECADE.Context wrote:I was talking about AFTER you lost Thibs. You didnt have a Brunson. Look...Brunson has put up historical numbers that EVEN Rose didnt accomplish.
Not taking away anything from Rose but -I'm not interested in having a discussion with anyone who cant acknowledge what Brunson has accomplished-
that only 1 or 2 other players in NBA history has...
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/brunsja01.html
I don't want to come off as a hater in the slightest - I love Brunson and was rooting for y'all hard - as hard as I've rooted for any team in NBA in the last decade but look at that career arc. Once he got to NYC and played with Thibs, he took off. Just like he elevated Derrick to be the youngest MVP in NBA history - he's elevated Brunson. I hope for your sake Brunson continues to progress but I'm leery.
The reality is - the heart and soul that you've seen your team play with just got thrown away for the lottery ticket that you'll replace Thibs with a better coach. The reality is - there aren't that many dudes out there that are better than him, and while he has limitations, you just had one of the best playoff runs of your life. Coming from a fan who has had nothing to cheer for in a decade and is in NBA hell - I'd say I wouldn't be so quick to throw it away.
At the end of the day you're talking about James Dolan and he's just as incompetent as Jerry Reinsdorf. I hope you enjoyed these years with meaningful basketball, it sucks without them and I'd kill for the Thibs teams back in Chicago again.
The heart and soul of this team is Brunson, we had 1 winning season and 1 lottery season with Thibs before we got Brunson, Thibs was on the verge of being fired in Brunson's first season here because of how the team was performing. It was Brunson that saved his job. Also, Brunson killed the Jazz in the playoffs before he got here, outplaying Donovan Mitchell at the time. Thibs helped him, but all he needed was the chance to be great, nobody made him, just like Rose would have been great no matter what, because he was a number 1 pick.
Our situations are not similar either, when the Bulls fired Tom you all were a team caught between two different eras, Pau, Dunleavy and Hinrich were washed, Noah and Roses' knees were cooked, and then you had a group of young players like Jimmy, McDermott and Mirotic, with only Jimmy proving to be a starter. Unlike you, we have a set roster with almost everyone on the same timeline, a coach will come here and know exactly what he has to work with, there is no mystery surrounding this roster like there was with the Bulls. You guys also seem intent on trying to prove that college coaches don't suck in the NBA, contrary to all the proof piling up against them.
Your ownership sucks, ours has too, but it seems like Dolan is at least getting out of the way to let Leon run the team. We're not joining you in the abyss, sorry.
cgmw wrote:NoDopeOnSundays wrote:Susan wrote:
Go back and read the Bulls board from back then. They thought we were going to be champs once he left. THREE PLAYOFF VICTORIES IN A DECADE.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/brunsja01.html
I don't want to come off as a hater in the slightest - I love Brunson and was rooting for y'all hard - as hard as I've rooted for any team in NBA in the last decade but look at that career arc. Once he got to NYC and played with Thibs, he took off. Just like he elevated Derrick to be the youngest MVP in NBA history - he's elevated Brunson. I hope for your sake Brunson continues to progress but I'm leery.
The reality is - the heart and soul that you've seen your team play with just got thrown away for the lottery ticket that you'll replace Thibs with a better coach. The reality is - there aren't that many dudes out there that are better than him, and while he has limitations, you just had one of the best playoff runs of your life. Coming from a fan who has had nothing to cheer for in a decade and is in NBA hell - I'd say I wouldn't be so quick to throw it away.
At the end of the day you're talking about James Dolan and he's just as incompetent as Jerry Reinsdorf. I hope you enjoyed these years with meaningful basketball, it sucks without them and I'd kill for the Thibs teams back in Chicago again.
The heart and soul of this team is Brunson, we had 1 winning season and 1 lottery season with Thibs before we got Brunson, Thibs was on the verge of being fired in Brunson's first season here because of how the team was performing. It was Brunson that saved his job. Also, Brunson killed the Jazz in the playoffs before he got here, outplaying Donovan Mitchell at the time. Thibs helped him, but all he needed was the chance to be great, nobody made him, just like Rose would have been great no matter what, because he was a number 1 pick.
Our situations are not similar either, when the Bulls fired Tom you all were a team caught between two different eras, Pau, Dunleavy and Hinrich were washed, Noah and Roses' knees were cooked, and then you had a group of young players like Jimmy, McDermott and Mirotic, with only Jimmy proving to be a starter. Unlike you, we have a set roster with almost everyone on the same timeline, a coach will come here and know exactly what he has to work with, there is no mystery surrounding this roster like there was with the Bulls. You guys also seem intent on trying to prove that college coaches don't suck in the NBA, contrary to all the proof piling up against them.
Your ownership sucks, ours has too, but it seems like Dolan is at least getting out of the way to let Leon run the team. We're not joining you in the abyss, sorry.
I don’t see a scenario where Brunson (or Mitch Robinson) play as well as they have for another coach as they did for Thibs.
It’s not complicated to see why. Nobody else will be as rigorous and uncompromising in iso-dribble drive rim-attack offense plus drop coverage max-rim protection defense. Thibs did exactly one thing on each end of the court and the main beneficiaries were the primary ball handler (Julius, then Jalen) and the defensive centers (Mitch, Hartenstein).
Leon is banking on the upside of a modern coach who can get the most out of the entire team, especially the wings. Either that or he has a major trade up his sleeve.
But my prediction is that Brunson’s best statistical years are now behind him and he’ll never get 2nd team All NBA again. He’ll still be our All Star closer, but no other coach alive will do for him what Thibs did.
cgmw wrote:I don’t see a scenario where Brunson (or Mitch Robinson) play as well as they have for another coach as they did for Thibs.
KnicksIn5 wrote:Well pinch my toes and call me a jelly donut - they actually did it.
NiceLikeChrist wrote:We are going to deeply regret this. We traded away the best player in the trade and still had to give up a great role player AND a pick?
so many people are going to eat their words about randle
NiceLikeChrist wrote:Lot of people showing love and respect for this man but I’m someone who wanted him gone during the hawks series that we lost in 2021. It’s been nothing but torture having him coach the team since then so I don’t have much to say other than good riddance.
Now let’s smarten up and get someone young with some brain wrinkles to take us to the next level. Championship window is wide open next year.
Two head coaches who are not currently available but said to interest the Knicks, according to league sources, are Dallas' Jason Kidd and Houston's Ime Udoka.
One source with knowledge of the Rockets' thinking told The Stein Line categorically that permission to speak with Udoka would be rejected if the Knicks requested it.
A similar response would be expected from the Mavericks, but a read on their position as conclusive as Houston's could not be immediately confirmed Tuesday night. Kidd has two seasons left on a contract extension he received during last season's playoffs with the Mavericks in the midst of a run to the NBA Finals and with the Los Angeles Lakers expected to show interest in hiring him to replace Darvin Ham.
Kidd was interviewed for the Knicks' post during the 2020 offseason before Thibodeau was hired. He also remains close to Milwaukee Bucks star Giannis Antetokounmpo, who is oft-described as a potential Knicks trade target should Antetokounmpo ever decide to push for a move.
When it comes to available coaches, longtime Villanova coach Jay Wright — who has long expressed a reluctance to make the leap to the NBA — and Cleveland Cavaliers assistant Johnnie Bryant quickly emerged as presumed likely candidates … emphasis on presumed.
Wright is obviously close with the Knicks' former Villanova trio of Brunson, Josh Hart and Mikal Bridges but, again, has repeatedly said that he does not have NBA coaching aspirations.
Bryant, meanwhile, is currently one of two finalists for the Phoenix Suns' coaching vacancy along with fellow Cavs assistant Jordan Ott, meaning that the Knicks — if interested— would have to A) see if he's still available at week's end with the Suns expected to choose between Bryant and Ott as early as Wednesday and B) be willing to hire to a first-time head coach to take over a team that lives in one of the league's most intense spotlights.
G_K_F wrote:Susan wrote:E-Balla wrote:This is because Thibs has no offensive system so PGs by default get to play their game. Thibs offensive coaching is ass, make no mistakes.
Go back and read the Bulls board from back then. They thought we were going to be champs once he left. THREE PLAYOFF VICTORIES IN A DECADE.Context wrote:I was talking about AFTER you lost Thibs. You didnt have a Brunson. Look...Brunson has put up historical numbers that EVEN Rose didnt accomplish.
Not taking away anything from Rose but -I'm not interested in having a discussion with anyone who cant acknowledge what Brunson has accomplished-
that only 1 or 2 other players in NBA history has...
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/brunsja01.html
I don't want to come off as a hater in the slightest - I love Brunson and was rooting for y'all hard - as hard as I've rooted for any team in NBA in the last decade but look at that career arc. Once he got to NYC and played with Thibs, he took off. Just like he elevated Derrick to be the youngest MVP in NBA history - he's elevated Brunson. I hope for your sake Brunson continues to progress but I'm leery.
The reality is - the heart and soul that you've seen your team play with just got thrown away for the lottery ticket that you'll replace Thibs with a better coach. The reality is - there aren't that many dudes out there that are better than him, and while he has limitations, you just had one of the best playoff runs of your life. Coming from a fan who has had nothing to cheer for in a decade and is in NBA hell - I'd say I wouldn't be so quick to throw it away.
At the end of the day you're talking about James Dolan and he's just as incompetent as Jerry Reinsdorf. I hope you enjoyed these years with meaningful basketball, it sucks without them and I'd kill for the Thibs teams back in Chicago again.
Could it be that the Bulls being terrible for the last decade is just their own incompetence and mismanagement?
I’m not sure Tom Thibodeau being fired over a decade ago is affecting the current Chicago Bulls. They’re just a bad organization.
I mean I don’t hear the same argument being made for the T Wolves. I think they’ve recovered quite well after Thibs. But I also don’t think that recovery reflects poorly on Thibs. They just hired a good GM and got better.
I think you are really overstating the value of Thibs here. I think he’s great for a franchise that needs a boost. He’s great establishing a culture and getting guys to play above their heads. But when it comes time for meaningful games in the playoffs his teams falter - which explains his career record of 47-56 in the playoffs.
I like Tom Thibodeau for what he represents as a coach and what he did for this franchise. However, quite simply he cannot win a championship with his coaching style and that’s been proven throughout his entire career with 3 different franchises. The man is who he is - and he’s not an NBA championship head coach.
shmeakone wrote:Hear me out on these dark horses..
Rajon Rondo? He’s led some big teams in the past as the QB, has expressed interest in coaching.
CP3 as a player/coach? Maybe he retires fully and goes straight into coaching?
The KnicksFix wrote:NiceLikeChrist wrote:Lot of people showing love and respect for this man but I’m someone who wanted him gone during the hawks series that we lost in 2021. It’s been nothing but torture having him coach the team since then so I don’t have much to say other than good riddance.
Now let’s smarten up and get someone young with some brain wrinkles to take us to the next level. Championship window is wide open next year.
Same. I had so much frustration dating back to the hawk series when we had elfrid freekin payton starting instead of rose who was cooking in pick and roll with Randle.
He also played IQ not at all in that series. Matter of fact it could be argued Payton was the worst of those 3 guards yet he was the starter.
Not allowing obi to play meaningful backup minutes to Randle to establish a role. There were so many rookies or second year players who never got much of a chance under him. If you’re always going to play vets, what’s the point of even drafting rookies.
I was over this dood a long long time ago.
snadler wrote:I will say this again, many of you place too much responsibility on the coach, and again, Thibs was far from perfect, but when you watch Brunson and KAT come up small, you watch the struggles they had especially with KaT and his brain lapses on defense, you see the lack of shooting, the lack of another ball handler to help Brunson out, to see a team without the athletes to keep up with the pacers. Again, to blame the coach for the loss roster flaws is just flat out wrong. Again with ALL OF THAT SAID, I trust Leon and his decision making. I am disappointed Thibs is gone, but I WILL
KEEP SAYING THIS, a new coach WILL NOT FIX THE ROSTER FLAWS..but now this is step one, i will keep saying this a new coach deserves to not have KAT and brunson..at least give the new coach a chance
Jeff Van Gully wrote:The KnicksFix wrote:NiceLikeChrist wrote:Lot of people showing love and respect for this man but I’m someone who wanted him gone during the hawks series that we lost in 2021. It’s been nothing but torture having him coach the team since then so I don’t have much to say other than good riddance.
Now let’s smarten up and get someone young with some brain wrinkles to take us to the next level. Championship window is wide open next year.
Same. I had so much frustration dating back to the hawk series when we had elfrid freekin payton starting instead of rose who was cooking in pick and roll with Randle.
He also played IQ not at all in that series. Matter of fact it could be argued Payton was the worst of those 3 guards yet he was the starter.
Not allowing obi to play meaningful backup minutes to Randle to establish a role. There were so many rookies or second year players who never got much of a chance under him. If you’re always going to play vets, what’s the point of even drafting rookies.
I was over this dood a long long time ago.
bruh. obi played like 100% of the randle backup minutes his whole time in the knick uniform. like, from the draft. i don't understand this complaint. where you trying to get the extra minutes from? there are only so many.
if you're saying he should have been playing next to randle, that's something else. but randle didn't leave more than 14 minutes on the table really ever.
quickley was also an immediate rotation player and backup. actually got to play alongside starters, which is pretty much the only way to get minutes into the 20s as a reserve.
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:Jeff Van Gully wrote:The KnicksFix wrote:
Same. I had so much frustration dating back to the hawk series when we had elfrid freekin payton starting instead of rose who was cooking in pick and roll with Randle.
He also played IQ not at all in that series. Matter of fact it could be argued Payton was the worst of those 3 guards yet he was the starter.
Not allowing obi to play meaningful backup minutes to Randle to establish a role. There were so many rookies or second year players who never got much of a chance under him. If you’re always going to play vets, what’s the point of even drafting rookies.
I was over this dood a long long time ago.
bruh. obi played like 100% of the randle backup minutes his whole time in the knick uniform. like, from the draft. i don't understand this complaint. where you trying to get the extra minutes from? there are only so many.
if you're saying he should have been playing next to randle, that's something else. but randle didn't leave more than 14 minutes on the table really ever.
quickley was also an immediate rotation player and backup. actually got to play alongside starters, which is pretty much the only way to get minutes into the 20s as a reserve.
That's a glaring problem though, the fact that we were told over and over again that Randle & Obi wouldn't work in small lineups, yet the Pacers have gone with Siakam & Obi in small lineups. We saw Randle & Reid in Minnesota in small lineups, Thibs flat out refused to play small with these guys on the team, and it was excused because people just said Obi couldn't do it, or Randle couldn't do it. Turns out, they could do it, but the coach just didn't have the vision to see it.
We got closed out with Obi playing in a small lineup which Thibs refused to do, it's kind of poetic his tenure with us ended that way.