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O.T. .::THE SCIENCE AND PHILOSOPHY THREAD::.

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Re: O.T. .::THE SCIENCE AND PHILOSOPHY THREAD::. 

Post#1741 » by magnumt » Thu Oct 20, 2016 12:18 am

Knickstape1214 wrote:
magnumt wrote:
Knickstape1214 wrote:
Oh, I completely agree in thinking that we're not alone. Do you think that's scarier than being alone though? I think being alone in the universe is wayyyyyy scarier.


Didn't you ask the same thing? Being alone vs not not alone ;)

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I'm confused. :lol: Forgive me, it's been a long day.


Being alone would be far worse than finding aliens.

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Re: O.T. .::THE SCIENCE AND PHILOSOPHY THREAD::. 

Post#1742 » by PeoplesChamp » Mon Oct 24, 2016 1:56 pm

Being alone wouldn't be scarier, it would be sadder, though. It's been recently discovered that we've been underestimating the size of the universe by at least a factor of 10. That takes the number of galaxies up to at least 1 trillion. I can't imagine there's not life teeming everywhere. But it would be disheartening if we were alone. And at the same time scary to learn that we are not.
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Re: O.T. .::THE SCIENCE AND PHILOSOPHY THREAD::. 

Post#1743 » by PeoplesChamp » Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:16 pm

http://www.space.com/34382-universe-has-10-times-more-galaxies-hubble-reveals.html
More than a trillion galaxies are lurking in the depths of space, a new census of galaxies in the observable universe has found — 10 times more galaxies than were previously thought to exist.

An international team of astronomers used deep-space images and other data from the Hubble Space Telescope to create a 3D map of the known universe, which contains about 100 to 200 billion galaxies. In particular, they relied on Hubble's Deep Field images, which revealed the most distant galaxies ever seen with a telescope.

hen, the researchers incorporated new mathematical models to calculate where other galaxies that have not yet been imaged by a telescope might exist. For the numbers to add up, the universe needs at least 10 times more galaxies than those already known to exist. But these unknown galaxies are likely either too faint or too far away to be seen with today's telescopes.
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Re: O.T. .::THE SCIENCE AND PHILOSOPHY THREAD::. 

Post#1744 » by NYKMentality85 » Tue Oct 25, 2016 8:35 am

Is space finite or infinite?

A question that'll never be able to be answered.
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Re: O.T. .::THE SCIENCE AND PHILOSOPHY THREAD::. 

Post#1745 » by gavran » Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:20 am

NYKMentality85 wrote:Is space finite or infinite?

A question that'll never be able to be answered.

It was answered years ago.
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Re: O.T. .::THE SCIENCE AND PHILOSOPHY THREAD::. 

Post#1746 » by PeoplesChamp » Tue Oct 25, 2016 6:32 pm

For all intents & purposes, it's infinite. Too big for us to ever comprehend. Although some scientists believe if you travel in a straight line you will eventually end up where you started from. Meaning the universe has a shape. We'll never know. What's crazy is when you consider that there may be a multiverse. An infinite number of something that's already seemingly infinite in size. How big is all of reality?
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Re: O.T. .::THE SCIENCE AND PHILOSOPHY THREAD::. 

Post#1747 » by gavran » Tue Oct 25, 2016 6:57 pm

Doesn't make in infinite. We live in a physical, and infinite is a mathematical (and philosophical) term. In physics, it doesn't exist, not even in the core of a black hole.
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Re: O.T. .::THE SCIENCE AND PHILOSOPHY THREAD::. 

Post#1748 » by PeoplesChamp » Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:49 pm

gavran wrote:Doesn't make in infinite. We live in a physical, and infinite is a mathematical (and philosophical) term. In physics, it doesn't exist, not even in the core of a black hole.


Right. Hence the phrase "for all intents and purposes". The point is there's pretty much no way for us to ever know. You get to a point where we run out of stars & matter. Does the black void beyond that count? How big is that? What would the end of that look like? Is "nothing" something? How could there possibly be an end? We don't have the ability to grasp that. I can't imagine we ever would. The universe is also expanding at an accelerating rate as we speak. If it's not infinite then it's too huge for us to ever comprehend.
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Re: O.T. .::THE SCIENCE AND PHILOSOPHY THREAD::. 

Post#1749 » by magnumt » Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:06 am

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/closing-in-on-a-giant-ghost-planet/

Far beyond the eight planets of the solar system, beyond even Pluto and the diminutive dwarf planets, may lurk a major new world called “Planet Nine.” Few if any discoveries can be as sensational as finding another planet orbiting our sun, making the feat a Holy Grail for astronomers, who have managed to pull it off only a few times over the centuries. No one yet knows exactly where this ephemeral world might be—or even if it really exists at all. But in the race to find it researchers are now narrowing down its location through its influence on the rest of the solar system, roughly halving the amount of space they thought they had to search only a few months ago. The scientists detailed their latest advances in the quest last week at the meeting of the American Astronomical Society Division for Planetary Sciences and the European Planetary Science Congress in Pasadena, Calif.

In January astrophysicists Konstantin Batygin and Michael Brown at the California Institute of Technology revealed evidence for a big, undiscovered ninth planet. Their computer models suggested the gravitational pull of such a world might explain the strange, tilted orbits of several bodies in the Kuiper Belt of icy objects that haunt the solar system's outer reaches. Scientists are now scrambling to be the first to spot Planet Nine using some of the biggest telescopes on Earth, such as the Subaru Telescope in Hawaii.

Batygin and Brown's work narrowed down the planet’s possible mass and orbit to areas where previous observations might have missed it. Their calculations suggest that it has a mass between five to 20 times that of Earth—a figure that is key to knowing the approximate size of the object they are looking for. They also suggest that its orbit is likely tilted about 30 degrees compared to the plane of the solar system—the relatively thin, flat zone in which the eight major planets orbit. They also propose that the planet is now likely near its farthest point from the sun, in the sky's northern hemisphere, and that it likely has an elongated orbit averaging between 380 and 980 astronomical units (AU) from the sun. (One AU is the average distance between Earth and the sun.)

However, these estimates still leave a swath of sky "about 1,500 square degrees large," says astronomer Scott Sheppard at the Carnegie Institution for Science, who with astronomer Chadwick Trujillo first suggested the existence of Planet Nine in 2014. (In comparison, the full moon as seen from Earth covers about 0.2 degrees of sky.) This swath described by Sheppard corresponds to about 20 nights of observations on Subaru, "and if we get seven nights or so this year, that's three years—if it's not rainy any of those nights," Sheppard says.

So the strategy in the race is now largely a matter of reducing the search area by eliminating theoretical possibilities. In an as-yet unpublished set of about 100 new high-resolution computer simulations, Batygin says he and Brown have narrowed down Planet Nine's location to a roughly 600- to 800-square degree patch of sky. They first modeled the solar system over the course of about 4 billion years, focusing on how the gravitational pulls of the system’s largest planets—Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and Planet Nine—might have sculpted the orbits of thousands of randomly scattered Kuiper Belt objects (KBOs). "We're searching for all of the things that Planet Nine does to the solar system," Brown says.


More at link above.

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Re: O.T. .::THE SCIENCE AND PHILOSOPHY THREAD::. 

Post#1750 » by PeoplesChamp » Wed Oct 26, 2016 1:24 am

We're fascinated by the rest of the universe, yet the solar system isn't still fully known. It's all so thoroughly fascinating.
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Re: O.T. .::THE SCIENCE AND PHILOSOPHY THREAD::. 

Post#1751 » by PeoplesChamp » Mon Nov 7, 2016 6:20 pm

Update on the EM Drive:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3912828/Impossible-fuel-free-engine-humans-Mars-10-weeks-DOES-work-claim-leaked-Nasa-papers.html

A fuel-free engine, described as 'impossible' to create, may now be a step closer to reality, according to leaked Nasa documents.

Named the EM Drive, the engine could one day have the potential to get a human crew to Mars in just 10 weeks, without using a conventional rocket fuel or nuclear reactor.

The latest report describes a series of successful tests carried out at Nasa’s Johnson Space Center in Texas.

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Re: O.T. .::THE SCIENCE AND PHILOSOPHY THREAD::. 

Post#1752 » by PeoplesChamp » Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:18 pm

More on the EM Drive
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3939512/The-fuel-free-EmDrive-NOT-impossible-leading-experts-admit-say-baffled-actually-works.html
Last week, a leaked NASA paper appeared to show that scientists had successfully created a working EmDrive prototype.

The radical fuel-free engine defies the laws of physics and has long been dubbed ‘impossible,’ but if achieved, it could get humans to Mars in just 10 weeks.

While many have cast doubt on the findings, experts now say there ‘may really be something there’ – but, the cause might be something entirely different than what’s been proposed.

Rather than the quantum vacuum theory which was initially cited to explain the findings, a phenomenon known as the ‘Mach effect’ could be to blame
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Re: O.T. .::THE SCIENCE AND PHILOSOPHY THREAD::. 

Post#1753 » by spaceballer » Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:45 pm

A lot of press lately on the EM Drive passing peer review. But they do note that there's a chance it's due to artifacts that can't be tested while on Earth, such as the role the Earth's magnetic field may play in creating spurious results with unaccounted for interactions, or other sources of error. Still, getting a peer reviewed paper passed is a big step forward.
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Re: O.T. .::THE SCIENCE AND PHILOSOPHY THREAD::. 

Post#1754 » by tuna108 » Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:10 pm

This is a trippy thread...cool
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Re: O.T. .::THE SCIENCE AND PHILOSOPHY THREAD::. 

Post#1755 » by PeoplesChamp » Wed Nov 23, 2016 5:26 pm

Incredible
http://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2016/11/23/how-physics-falls-apart-if-the-emdrive-works/#3db88a564b0c
Imagine a rocket that works without fuel. You pump energy into it and away you go, but there’s no thrust coming out the other side, no exhaust, no waste product and no consumable fuel. It’s the ultimate defiance of Isaac Newton: claiming to have an action without an equal and opposite reaction. And yet, inventor of the EMdrive, Roger Shawyer, claims to do exactly that. Not only does he say that his device works, he claims that anyone can build one and verify it for themselves. At Eagleworks laboratory, NASA scientists attempted to do exactly that, and just published their findings in a peer-reviewed journal. The results? They verify that the EMdrive works as advertised.
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Re: O.T. .::THE SCIENCE AND PHILOSOPHY THREAD::. 

Post#1756 » by j4remi » Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:04 pm

PeoplesChamp wrote:Incredible
http://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2016/11/23/how-physics-falls-apart-if-the-emdrive-works/#3db88a564b0c
Imagine a rocket that works without fuel. You pump energy into it and away you go, but there’s no thrust coming out the other side, no exhaust, no waste product and no consumable fuel. It’s the ultimate defiance of Isaac Newton: claiming to have an action without an equal and opposite reaction. And yet, inventor of the EMdrive, Roger Shawyer, claims to do exactly that. Not only does he say that his device works, he claims that anyone can build one and verify it for themselves. At Eagleworks laboratory, NASA scientists attempted to do exactly that, and just published their findings in a peer-reviewed journal. The results? They verify that the EMdrive works as advertised.


Much respect for the updates. This is a really interesting, exciting development that I'm enjoying following. How awesome is it to go back a few pages and see the initial reports garner "that's too good to be true" as a response.
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Re: O.T. .::THE SCIENCE AND PHILOSOPHY THREAD::. 

Post#1757 » by CJackson » Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:08 pm

spaceballer wrote:A lot of press lately on the EM Drive passing peer review. But they do note that there's a chance it's due to artifacts that can't be tested while on Earth, such as the role the Earth's magnetic field may play in creating spurious results with unaccounted for interactions, or other sources of error. Still, getting a peer reviewed paper passed is a big step forward.


Even if it doesn't pan out in space, anything close to a perpetual motion machine could literally save the planet from environmental devastation. That would be its greatest value unless the narrative is the only way the human race survives is to leave.
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Re: O.T. .::THE SCIENCE AND PHILOSOPHY THREAD::. 

Post#1758 » by PeoplesChamp » Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:44 pm

CJackson wrote:
spaceballer wrote:A lot of press lately on the EM Drive passing peer review. But they do note that there's a chance it's due to artifacts that can't be tested while on Earth, such as the role the Earth's magnetic field may play in creating spurious results with unaccounted for interactions, or other sources of error. Still, getting a peer reviewed paper passed is a big step forward.


Even if it doesn't pan out in space, anything close to a perpetual motion machine could literally save the planet from environmental devastation. That would be its greatest value unless the narrative is the only way the human race survives is to leave.


That's actually what Stephen Hawking believes. He says the way we're going, mankind has between 1K - 10K years left unless we leave the planet.
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Re: O.T. .::THE SCIENCE AND PHILOSOPHY THREAD::. 

Post#1759 » by PeoplesChamp » Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:48 pm

Check the Joe Rohan podcast with Graham Hancock & Randall Carlson. It'll blow your mind. This planet went through a flood event that evidence shows contained 1000 ft waves of water destroying everything. Maybe from the Ice Age thaw or a comet hitting the Earth. It's incredible stuff.
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Re: O.T. .::THE SCIENCE AND PHILOSOPHY THREAD::. 

Post#1760 » by CJackson » Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:57 pm

PeoplesChamp wrote:
CJackson wrote:
spaceballer wrote:A lot of press lately on the EM Drive passing peer review. But they do note that there's a chance it's due to artifacts that can't be tested while on Earth, such as the role the Earth's magnetic field may play in creating spurious results with unaccounted for interactions, or other sources of error. Still, getting a peer reviewed paper passed is a big step forward.


Even if it doesn't pan out in space, anything close to a perpetual motion machine could literally save the planet from environmental devastation. That would be its greatest value unless the narrative is the only way the human race survives is to leave.


That's actually what Stephen Hawking believes. He says the way we're going, mankind has between 1K - 10K years left unless we leave the planet.


He's as concerned about AI as the environment, right?

The thing about guys like him or Musk worried about AI eating us for lunch is you need AI to seed the stars so it seems like a Catch-22 proposition.

and 1-10,000 years is a drop in the bucket of time overall, but several thousand years so far is the sum of recorded human history and if we have even 1,000 years left that is enough time to go elsewhere if that is the case

myself, I don't have a clear vision of whether humans survive or not. The odds are against them both in terms of self-destruction and cosmic probabilities like meteor strikes.

I think the real question is whether or not humans can collectively evolve their levels of mutual tolerance, because the emergence of human-machine hybrids is forthcoming alongside intelligent lab-created bio-organisms. Since humans can barely tolerate the personal freedoms of others, I don't see why they should expect other organisms and hybrids to exhibit a greater level of compassion than we do.

So I'd say the odds are the human race may destroy itself with its own inventions that develop their own agendas and that Musk and Hawkings are probably right. We lack collective wisdom as a species and I think the wave of political populism that denies facts in favor of bonehead fantasies about issues like actual economic realities and global warming shows the masses are still unevolved.

The power elite is not enlightened either so the only hope is spiritual awakening as a species and I would not bet on that happening to the degree necessary for survival.

Our evolutionary trend is to escalate, not harmonize and pandora's box is opening right now with biotech soon doing things we can't control and most organisms are not wired for compassion towards other species or even their own.

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