RealGM

emo wrote:Fans have done this sh*t year, after year, after year, after year on these boards.

AND IT HAS NEVER WORKED OUT! And to be honest, it's quite embarrassing looking back at some of those comparisons.

Some fans are just tired of seeing it done over and over again (especially after so few games)

I haven't forgotten these:

• • Frye = Duncan
• • Ariza = T-Mac (or some sh*t like that)
• • Mardy Collins = Jason Kidd
• • Balkman = Rodman
• • Wilson Chandler = Carmelo
• • Gallinari = Dirk/Larry Bird
• • Michael Sweetney = Elton Brand

..and so forth.

I don't think anyone is underestimating Iman's ability. I know I'm basically saying the same thing you're saying in the end.. just let dude develop and see where he is as he progresses along.

You can't just leapfrog him over guys like Marcus Thornton, OJ Mayo.. right on to Dwyane Wade this early in his career/development.

C'mon now.

emo wrote:I don't think anyone is underestimating Iman's ability. I know I'm basically saying the same thing you're saying in the end.. just let dude develop and see where he is as he progresses along.

You can't just leapfrog him over guys like Marcus Thornton, OJ Mayo.. right on to Dwyane Wade.

C'mon now.

lol wtf? So Iman has to go through battle stages before he gets to Wade? It's a projection.

Fury wrote:lol wtf? So Iman has to go through battle stages before he gets to Wade?

Yes.

Crazyknicks wrote:He has "similar" numbers to rookie Wade after 4 games? Ok what does that prove? What are you implying?

Sigh. It proves that he has similar numbers to rookie Wade after 5 (not 4) games. That was the entire point of my post.

What am I implying? That Shumpert in the limited available data has exhibited similar statistical production to a rookie Wade, and he posted these stats for a whole season, he'd have arguably had as good as rookie year as Wade while being one year younger.

Reading comprehension... it's not just a section on the SAT's.

Crazyknicks wrote:Again you're taking numbers from 4 games in comparison to a full season.

Oh really, is that so? Why, you must be a professor of basketbology to have such penetrating insight. I ACKNOWLEDGED THAT IN THE ORIGINAL POST.

Crazyknicks wrote:You say my post adds nothing but it's threads like yours that ruin the forums. Just like the Gallo was "similar" to Bird threads the past few years.

Actually, a Gallo vs. Bird thread done by my methods of using hard stats would have added a lot to the forum, by proving that Gallo's game is nothing like Bird's in terms of rebounding, playmaking, shooting inside the arc, etc. What would suck about it would be that most of the replies would exhibit this kind of know-nothing attitude attacking the OP for stuff he never asserted, rather than thoughtful engagement with the subject of his post.

i can't wait until NoMoreThrees sees this thread . . .

and shumpert does not remind of dwyane wade. he does not have the nuance or the savvy of wade.

emo wrote:I don't think anyone is underestimating Iman's ability. I know I'm basically saying the same thing you're saying in the end.. just let dude develop and see where he is as he progresses along.

You can't just leapfrog him over guys like Marcus Thornton, OJ Mayo.. right on to Dwyane Wade this early in his career/development.

C'mon now.

Well I didn't make Shumpert's stats up. Those guys weren't as good in their rookie seasons statwise as Shump has been, so far. Now, if Shump pulls a fields and starts completely sucking, fine, compare him to worse players. Thus far his play if sustained over a whole season is just not equaled by very many 21 yo rookies.

emo wrote:Fans have done this sh*t year, after year, after year, after year on these boards.

AND IT HAS NEVER WORKED OUT! And to be honest, it's quite embarrassing looking back at some of those comparisons.

Some fans are just tired of seeing it done over and over again (especially after so few games)

I haven't forgotten these:

• • Frye = Duncan
• • Ariza = T-Mac (or some sh*t like that)
• • Mardy Collins = Jason Kidd
• • Balkman = Rodman
• • Wilson Chandler = Carmelo
• • Gallinari = Dirk/Larry Bird
• • Michael Sweetney = Elton Brand

..and so forth.

And tell me good sir, which of these comparisons had hard stats to back them up? Frye never came close to defending, rebounding, or blocking shots like Duncan. Ariza never came close to shooting or scoring like TMac. Mardy Collins never came close to not looking like a complete scrub. Wilson Chandler never scored like Melo. Gallo never shot, rebounded, passed, or really did anything as well as Bird other than shot FT'. And Sweetney had some talent, he just ate himself out of the league.

Balkman... well, I think he actually could be awesome but just smokes a ton of pot and doesn't care, lol. I need to make friends with that guy.

My point is NONE of those had stats to back them up, because they couldn't have, because those players never put up numbers anything like those comparisons you accuse Knick fans of making, even for 5 games. Just because you see a lot of stupid, subjective comparison threads doesn't mean you need to reflexively crap all over a narrowly focused one based on hard facts and evidence.

knicksosmoove wrote:i can't wait until NoMoreThrees sees this thread . . .

and shumpert does not remind of dwyane wade. he does not have the nuance or the savvy of wade.

Yes, Wade was known for his incredible savvy as a 22 year old rookie, despite a significantly higher turnover rate than Iman Shumpert.

If you're not mentally capable of separating 26 year old MVP candidate finals assassin Wade from rookie Wade, don't bother with this thread.

dwyane wade displayed that nuance and savvy in college . . . shumpert's game is a lot more blunt if you know what i mean. plus wade has the craziest first step for a shooting guard since jordan (okay, and maybe TMac).

he will not be as good as dwyane wade. no way. shumpert can be good, but not all time great good. not finals mvp good. i am fine with that.

It's fun as fans trying to figure out exactly how shiny the shiniest new toy really is. In the realm of ridiculous logical-extreme comparisons, I agree 100% that Wade fits the bill. I also think it's fun (and necessary) for forum users to bash on other forum users for making ridiculous logical-extreme comparisons, no matter how many disclaimers come with.

I'd be very surprised and impressed if Iman Shumpert ever makes an All Star team. But I'm also very surprised to learn he has a 6'10 inch wingspan. Maybe I'm just not a dreamer, but I see his potential best-case-scenario as a Knick to be closer to the caliber of John Starks than Patrick Ewing.

Anyway, fun thread, and fun as a fan that Shumpert can bring so much enthusiasm and hope.

dwayne wades rookie season GIVE ME THE BALL GET OUT THE WAY IM ATTACKING THE RIM I RUN THIS TEAM

iman shumperts rookie season GET OUT THE WAY IM GIVING THE BALL TO MELO OR STAT FOR ISO, though i will chuck up a random jamal crawford shot from time to time and sneak to the rim for a easy layup when the Defense is sleeping

but in all seriousness

rookie similarities
Both wade and shump can handle the rock
Both are freakishly athletic
Both can penetrate
Both shot selections suck
both rebounded decent

rookie differences

wade
-way more aggressive attacking the rim
-far more superior finisher
-much better of a penetrator
-wade more of the go 2 guy

FROM WHAT IVE SEEN SO FAR
shump
-much better passer then wade
-better court vision
-better defense
-better FT shooter

but i still agree with mase that its to early in the season to have these shump vs rookie wade debates start this convo back up at the trade deadline where we can have a better feel of what shumpert can do
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dogrufus wrote:My point is NONE of those had stats to back them up, because they couldn't have, because those players never put up numbers anything like those comparisons you accuse Knick fans of making, even for 5 games. Just because you see a lot of stupid, subjective comparison threads doesn't mean you need to reflexively crap all over a narrowly focused one based on hard facts and evidence.

Hard facts & evidence?

We're talking about a 4gm sample, correct? vs Dwyane Wade's entire rookie season (already pretty illogical to base the comparison off of if you ask me -- especially when considering the level of competition thus far, bruh.)

I mean, in the OP you even made a mention to the comparison as being "ridiculous" (which I quoted in agreement). But the way you're vigorously defending the comparison itself, and some of your statements make me think that you truly do believe it to be valid.

I'm confused.

dogrufus wrote:Yes, I know I'm ridiculous, Shumpert has played only x number of games and whatever....

so why make this thread? you cant project a player to an all NBA player based off 4 games.

emo wrote:

Fury wrote:lol wtf? So Iman has to go through battle stages before he gets to Wade?

Yes.

You're inner Emo is showing (you've been hurt before)

Anyone think he'll be a Westbrook type player?

If so then I wouldn't be mad at Shumpert being our permanent PG (starting next season after more tutoring from Baron Davis & Bibby). Especially assuming we have Nash or Davis next season as backup.

This would also help who we target with our MLE & trades of TD/Fields/Balkman.
Our only holes going into the season(assuming we keep Kenyon & pick up TD's option) would only be starting 2 & backup 3, which are easier to fill than looking for a playmaking PG that is available.

DowNY wrote:Anyone think he'll be a Westbrook type player?

If so then I wouldn't be mad at Shumpert being our permanent PG (starting next season after more tutoring from Baron Davis & Bibby). Especially assuming we have Nash or Davis next season as backup.

This would also help who we target with our MLE & trades of TD/Fields/Balkman.
Our only holes going into the season(assuming we keep Kenyon & pick up TD's option) would only be starting 2 & backup 3, which are easier to fill than looking for a playmaking PG that is available.

Westbrook has been my comparison since we drafted him. He's already a better playmaker though.

dogrufus wrote:I mean, in the OP you even made a mention to the comparison as being "ridiculous" (which I quoted in agreement). But the way you're vigorously defending the comparison itself, and some of your statements make me think that you truly do believe it to be valid.

I'm confused.

The only comparison I ever made was Shumpert's numbers vs. Wade's numbers as a rookie. I don't have to defend that comparison, it's a comparison of numbers and the numbers are indisputably similar. What I'm defending is the proposition that it should be possible for me to make a post saying, "Hey guys I know it's only 4 games but let's compare Shump to rookie Wade even acknowledging that it's only 4 games and should be taken with a grain of salt" and not immediately get attacked by 100 people saying "OMG WTF DONT YOU KNOW ITS ONLY 4 GAMES AND THAT IS NOT A LARGE SAMPLE SIZE??!?!?!?!? 4 GAMMEMSSMSMSMS!!?!!!"

When people seem to fail to comprehend basic writing it's annoying.

I don't think Shump is as quick as Wade. Even at this stage of his career, when Wade turns it on and decides to blow by you, he is very elusive and hard to guard. Shump probably is not as slick. Wade's body control and physical movements are really unusual and hard to predict for a defender.

Shump seems far more methodical in his movements. What Shump already possesses is that unteachable quick impulse decision making capacity. He makes his decisions and commits quickly which is often more important than athletic quickness. Combined with strength, that means he is going to be hard to body up and prevent from getting to the basket when he makes his move.

it's early to think about what he'll be. who knows how much he can improve or not. he's definitely looking like a steal. i'm satisfied enough with that for now..