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Iman Shumpert vs Rookie Dwyane Wade

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Re: Iman Shumpert vs Rookie Dwyane Wade 

Post#61 » by DocZaius » Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:15 am

do you realize just how good Wade is?

he's a very very very poor man's version maybe
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Re: Iman Shumpert vs Rookie Dwyane Wade 

Post#62 » by knicksosmoove » Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:16 am

Clyde_Style wrote:I don't think Shump is as quick as Wade. Even at this stage of his career, when Wade turns it on and decides to blow by you, he is very elusive and hard to guard. Shump probably is not as slick. Wade's body control and physical movements are really unusual and hard to predict for a defender.

Shump seems far more methodical in his movements. What Shump already possesses is that unteachable quick impulse decision making capacity. He makes his decisions and commits quickly which is often more important than athletic quickness. Combined with strength, that means he is going to be hard to body up and prevent from getting to the basket when he makes his move.


this is a good description. it's the subtleties that make wade special. shumpert doesn't have those.
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Re: Iman Shumpert vs Rookie Dwyane Wade 

Post#63 » by DowNY » Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:19 am

DocZaius wrote:do you realize just how good Wade is?

he's a very very very poor man's version maybe


"Wade is" shows present tense.
We're not comparing him to the Wade of the present.
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Re: Iman Shumpert vs Rookie Dwyane Wade 

Post#64 » by emo » Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:28 am

dogrufus wrote:The only comparison I ever made was Shumpert's numbers vs. Wade's numbers as a rookie. I don't have to defend that comparison, it's a comparison of numbers and the numbers are indisputably similar. What I'm defending is the proposition that it should be possible for me to make a post saying, "Hey guys I know it's only 4 games but let's compare Shump to rookie Wade even acknowledging that it's only 4 games and should be taken with a grain of salt" and not immediately get attacked by 100 people saying "OMG WTF DONT YOU KNOW ITS ONLY 4 GAMES AND THAT IS NOT A LARGE SAMPLE SIZE??!?!?!?!? 4 GAMMEMSSMSMSMS!!?!!!"

When people seem to fail to comprehend basic writing it's annoying.


How are the numbers indisputably similar when the sample sizes aren't even near?

If you have to put that many disclaimers to begin with; then you already knew what kind of responses to expect.

You had a few members agree with you, a few disagreed and a few decided on being sarcastic **** (myself included) -- no one attacked you (initially anyway).
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Re: Iman Shumpert vs Rookie Dwyane Wade 

Post#65 » by TrueWarrior » Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:37 am

Shump is going to have to get to the line more if we want to entertain this comparison. Hes only taken 6 FTs since he came back from injury and Id like to see him slash more a la Wade. Learning to flop some to sell the call is a must these days unfortunately.
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Re: Iman Shumpert vs Rookie Dwyane Wade 

Post#66 » by blueNorange » Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:42 am

he's a choke a bitch away from being sprewell
LOL Y U MAD THO?
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Re: Iman Shumpert vs Rookie Dwyane Wade 

Post#67 » by Clyde_Style » Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:49 am

blueNorange wrote:he's a choke a bitch away from being sprewell


I have just the coach in mind
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Re: Iman Shumpert vs Rookie Dwyane Wade 

Post#68 » by 2010 » Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:57 am

Clyde_Style wrote:I don't think Shump is as quick as Wade. Even at this stage of his career, when Wade turns it on and decides to blow by you, he is very elusive and hard to guard. Shump probably is not as slick. Wade's body control and physical movements are really unusual and hard to predict for a defender.

Shump seems far more methodical in his movements. What Shump already possesses is that unteachable quick impulse decision making capacity. He makes his decisions and commits quickly which is often more important than athletic quickness. Combined with strength, that means he is going to be hard to body up and prevent from getting to the basket when he makes his move.


I do agree with this. Which may actually be a good thing. A lot of times Wade comes across as out of control. Shumpert seems more willing to pace himself and pick spots. *Composed*

I think the way Wade plays with wreckless abandon it has factored into his injury history. Hopefully Shumpert doesn't put himself in harms way as often as Wade does since he doesn't go full speed as often. I am aware Shump has already been injured (before some smart alec pops his head in here quoting me) but that was more of a freak injury...completely accidental. The cramps are a byproduct of playing heavy minutes immediately upon returning.
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Re: Iman Shumpert vs Rookie Dwyane Wade 

Post#69 » by GONYK » Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:59 am

2010 wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:I don't think Shump is as quick as Wade. Even at this stage of his career, when Wade turns it on and decides to blow by you, he is very elusive and hard to guard. Shump probably is not as slick. Wade's body control and physical movements are really unusual and hard to predict for a defender.

Shump seems far more methodical in his movements. What Shump already possesses is that unteachable quick impulse decision making capacity. He makes his decisions and commits quickly which is often more important than athletic quickness. Combined with strength, that means he is going to be hard to body up and prevent from getting to the basket when he makes his move.


I do agree with this. Which may actually be a good thing. A lot of times Wade comes across as out of control. Shumpert seems more willing to pace himself and pick spots. *Composed*

I think the way Wade plays with wreckless abandon it has factored into his injury history. Hopefully Shumpert doesn't put himself in harms way as often as Wade does since he doesn't go full speed as often. I am aware Shump has already been injured (before some smart alec pops his head in here quoting me) but that was more of a freak injury...completely accidental. The cramps are a byproduct of playing heavy minutes immediately upon returning.


That's one thing that impresses me about Shump, and I think projects him better than Westbrook down the line. He understands that the game has different speeds. He doesn't need to be full throttle the whole time. He changes gears nicely.
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Re: Iman Shumpert vs Rookie Dwyane Wade 

Post#70 » by 2010 » Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:03 am

GONYK wrote:
2010 wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:I don't think Shump is as quick as Wade. Even at this stage of his career, when Wade turns it on and decides to blow by you, he is very elusive and hard to guard. Shump probably is not as slick. Wade's body control and physical movements are really unusual and hard to predict for a defender.

Shump seems far more methodical in his movements. What Shump already possesses is that unteachable quick impulse decision making capacity. He makes his decisions and commits quickly which is often more important than athletic quickness. Combined with strength, that means he is going to be hard to body up and prevent from getting to the basket when he makes his move.


I do agree with this. Which may actually be a good thing. A lot of times Wade comes across as out of control. Shumpert seems more willing to pace himself and pick spots. *Composed*

I think the way Wade plays with wreckless abandon it has factored into his injury history. Hopefully Shumpert doesn't put himself in harms way as often as Wade does since he doesn't go full speed as often. I am aware Shump has already been injured (before some smart alec pops his head in here quoting me) but that was more of a freak injury...completely accidental. The cramps are a byproduct of playing heavy minutes immediately upon returning.


That's one thing that impresses me about Shump, and I think projects him better than Westbrook down the line. He understands that the game has different speeds. He doesn't need to be full throttle the whole time. He changes gears nicely.


Yup, I have no problem with Shumpert not playing at a break-neck pace the way Wade/Westbrook do. I like that he seems to have a "heady" element to him and he seems very willing to make the extra pass. Like I said before, many posters short-changed him in the BBIQ category.
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Re: Iman Shumpert vs Rookie Dwyane Wade 

Post#71 » by 2010 » Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:08 am

knicksosmoove wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:I don't think Shump is as quick as Wade. Even at this stage of his career, when Wade turns it on and decides to blow by you, he is very elusive and hard to guard. Shump probably is not as slick. Wade's body control and physical movements are really unusual and hard to predict for a defender.

Shump seems far more methodical in his movements. What Shump already possesses is that unteachable quick impulse decision making capacity. He makes his decisions and commits quickly which is often more important than athletic quickness. Combined with strength, that means he is going to be hard to body up and prevent from getting to the basket when he makes his move.


this is a good description. it's the subtleties that make wade special. shumpert doesn't have those.


Rookie Wade didn't have Shumpert 3pt range, FT accuracy or defensive intensity...

...see I can do that too! :)
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Re: Iman Shumpert vs Rookie Dwyane Wade 

Post#72 » by spree8 » Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:19 am

I understand people don't want to get carried away by comparing Iman to Wade..well the Wade of 2012, but Dwayne from 2003..you most certainly can. Iman is our 3rd option behind Melo and Amare the way that Wade was behind Butler and Odom. The #'s are identical, as is their style of play..not to mention size/body type, and talent level.

For anyone to overlook that because Iman has not yet accomplished the things that Wade has in his career is a little unfair. Both he and Wade have/had the same knock coming into the league and that was their jumpshot. The only thing that seperates the two is Iman's tendancy to be a little recklass ala Nate Robinson. If he doesn't learn to compose himself a little more, and not jack up bad shots so quickly at times, then he could be looked at like a Nate type.

Bottom line, the talent is identical, but Iman just has to put it all together, and that requires the effort on his end to listen and learn, and with that maturity we could very well see him blossom into a star.
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Re: Iman Shumpert vs Rookie Dwyane Wade 

Post#73 » by Clyde_Style » Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:24 am

GONYK wrote:
2010 wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:I don't think Shump is as quick as Wade. Even at this stage of his career, when Wade turns it on and decides to blow by you, he is very elusive and hard to guard. Shump probably is not as slick. Wade's body control and physical movements are really unusual and hard to predict for a defender.

Shump seems far more methodical in his movements. What Shump already possesses is that unteachable quick impulse decision making capacity. He makes his decisions and commits quickly which is often more important than athletic quickness. Combined with strength, that means he is going to be hard to body up and prevent from getting to the basket when he makes his move.


I do agree with this. Which may actually be a good thing. A lot of times Wade comes across as out of control. Shumpert seems more willing to pace himself and pick spots. *Composed*

I think the way Wade plays with wreckless abandon it has factored into his injury history. Hopefully Shumpert doesn't put himself in harms way as often as Wade does since he doesn't go full speed as often. I am aware Shump has already been injured (before some smart alec pops his head in here quoting me) but that was more of a freak injury...completely accidental. The cramps are a byproduct of playing heavy minutes immediately upon returning.


That's one thing that impresses me about Shump, and I think projects him better than Westbrook down the line. He understands that the game has different speeds. He doesn't need to be full throttle the whole time. He changes gears nicely.


Yeah guys, Shump just seems to know where he is on the court in relation to everything else going on around him. The game clearly goes slower for him than other guys which means he has a natural zone he can enter into more easily.

That's his IT factor far more than outward displays of confidence. He processes game information very, very well and executes without additional hesitation. It is not all explosiveness or athleticism, just an obvious knack for the game itself.

It manifests in his apparent good sense on how to impact the game. It is the kind of intuition really good ball players have that allows them to find the weak seams in a defense and exploit themn either by shooting or driving or passing.

On defense, that intuition combined with intensity results in what is already a very high steal rate so he clearly sees the game in slower motion than most players and can anticipate where the lanes are and intercept. That's something Clyde was a master at.

That's what I find notable about Shump. Physical specimens are not that unique, but ones with that IT factor in a great physical package is pretty uncommon. Amare doesn't have 25% of Shump's savvy for instance.

I do project Shump as a real impact player. If he's without health issues, he is probably going to be in the ROY talks. But i don't think the comparisons with other players this early are really that important or easy to gauge. He's just a special player.
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Re: Iman Shumpert vs Rookie Dwyane Wade 

Post#74 » by Clyde_Style » Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:28 am

P.S. Mark Jackson was taken at a similar number in the draft and won ROY, so it has a precedent with our own team.
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Re: Iman Shumpert vs Rookie Dwyane Wade 

Post#75 » by knicksosmoove » Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:33 am

oh boy. if y'all think we got a future superstar on our hands have at it.

we don't though. because with this type of mentality, there are probably about 150 players in the league who if you put them in a knicks jersey they would have superstar potential under this criteria. what if lou williams was on our team. or marcus thornton. or paul george. they'd all the next dwyane wade/ lebron james too. god forbid if we had drafted anyone like tyreke evans or oj mayo. they would be future GOAT for sure.

shumpert is nice. but he is not dwyane wade. he is not going to be dwyane wade either. he is not going to be one of the greatest shooting guards to ever live. i am not even a huge dwyane wade fan, but he is a special player. he is special quick. special strong. special crafty. more than special when it comes to elusiveness.
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Re: Iman Shumpert vs Rookie Dwyane Wade 

Post#76 » by NYK_89 » Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:38 am

i would love for you to post every rookie that has done this exact stat line in their first 4 games, im sure you wouldn't recognize 70% of them
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Re: Iman Shumpert vs Rookie Dwyane Wade 

Post#77 » by DowNY » Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:56 am

Like I said, don't be quick to deem someone a superstar but don't be quick not too if he hasn't proven such theory.

While the argument of it only being 4 or so games is valid, certain people can have very good judgement on a player in that time span.

Obviously some fellow fans are still butt hurt from past assumptions of recent players and all of that good stuff but they apparently forgot that some players we drafted exceeded or started to meet expectations as well.

I wish some fellow fans could show more faith in our own players & not dwell on mistakes of others in the past comparing them to current players on the team.
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Re: Iman Shumpert vs Rookie Dwyane Wade 

Post#78 » by dogrufus » Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:56 am

knicksosmoove wrote:oh boy. if y'all think we got a future superstar on our hands have at it.

we don't though. because with this type of mentality, there are probably about 150 players in the league who if you put them in a knicks jersey they would have superstar potential under this criteria. what if lou williams was on our team. or marcus thornton. or paul george. they'd all the next dwyane wade/ lebron james too. god forbid if we had drafted anyone like tyreke evans or oj mayo. they would be future GOAT for sure.

shumpert is nice. but he is not dwyane wade. he is not going to be dwyane wade either. he is not going to be one of the greatest shooting guards to ever live. i am not even a huge dwyane wade fan, but he is a special player. he is special quick. special strong. special crafty. more than special when it comes to elusiveness.


All of those things:

1) Probably are true.

2) Probably sounded true when they were all said about Dwyane Wade among Heat fans in 2003. Just replace Wade with Kobe/MJ/Great SG.

Stars and even superstars do get drafted outside the lottery sometimes. It's rare, but it happens. Sometimes that high upside pick does pan out. I'm not saying it's going to happen with Shump, but I think there's a nonzero chance, maybe even as high as 10 or 20 percent.

I will say this- much like Rajon Rondo, if he WAS going to be capable of developing into an All-NBA caliber player at his position, he certainly landed in the perfect situation to do so, because outside of him our SG play has been Division 3 college caliber. So he's going to have the following going for him:
-His biggest competitors for playing time (FIelds and Douglas) spent the summer eating lead paint chips and are now terrible. Bill Walker continues his long traidition of being terrible. We have a hole in SG that if you drop a penny in it you hear no sound.
-He certainly has no lack of physical gifts
-He theoretically should get plenty of open shots
-He should have a chance to get playoff experience pretty early in his career
-He helps our defense be mediocre instead of awful, which is only true of one other player on our current roster. Can guard both guard positions (TD can guard neither)
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Re: Iman Shumpert vs Rookie Dwyane Wade 

Post#79 » by stuporman » Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:04 am

Some people just don't get the idea of player comparisons for when trying to get an understanding of a young player's playing style as opposed to trying to guess a young player's 'ceiling'. There is quite a difference between the two things and some people just are too dense to understand it.

I doubt Shump would ever be able to accomplish what Wade has done but to compare playing styles is something completely different. I myself don't think his playing style is all that close to Wade's. It's more than just how the stat line gets filled out or a body size and type.

It seems some people in here can't tell the difference in playing style comparisons or guessing a ceiling and get all bent over the 'comparison'.
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Re: Iman Shumpert vs Rookie Dwyane Wade 

Post#80 » by emo » Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:16 am

^^What about the OP says to you that this is a "style comparison"? Since I assume I'm one those "people in here" that are "too dense" to understand it".
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