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Build-a-Team 7.0 Contact Info & Discussion Thread - P5
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:49 pm
by moocow007
Re: Build-a-Team 7.0 Contact Info & Discussion Thread - P5
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:10 pm
by moocow007
So like I said in the last thread, has the Pistons won yet? Let's just cut to the chase.
Re: Build-a-Team 7.0 Contact Info & Discussion Thread - P5
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:54 pm
by mpharris36
moocow007 wrote:So like I said in the last thread, has the Pistons won yet? Let's just cut to the chase.
Re: Build-a-Team 7.0 Contact Info & Discussion Thread - P5
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:37 pm
by Knicksfan20
@LJ4
I have Derozan as my 6th man, not Webster. Derozan/Barbosa/Mills/Hill is pretty good/deep if you ask me. Gaines is a good player to have as well as Jordan Hamilton. Hamilton has starter potential IMO 2-3 years down the line. Gaines is solid enough for 14 mpg right now. Even debated trading Mills so Gaines would backup Rubio to have the better defender in there. Leur and Brackins are both solid prospects as well. Jerome Jordan is questionable , but he could be in the rotation for NY this year.
Re: Build-a-Team 7.0 Contact Info & Discussion Thread - P5
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:46 pm
by Knicksfan20
not a fan of my offense and fit ratings. Hickson is a very good pnr player and can score in post. Mills/Barbosa are both good scorers.
I thought my team "fit wise" was one of the best. Every pick I made was for guys I thought would fit with Rubio and Hollins system. Varejao had a wrist injury which was minor and Gay is fine, plus im 5 mil undrr the cap. Agree my biggest concern is blocking. Thought i deserved much better then 4.5 for offense though.
I have a 10+ ppg player as every starter, as well as two off the bench.
overall good job though. Fun to have a real judge this time.
Re: Build-a-Team 7.0 Contact Info & Discussion Thread - P5
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:02 pm
by -Kees-
Knicksfan20 wrote:not a fan of my offense and fit ratings. Hickson is a very good pnr player and can score in post. Mills/Barbosa are both good scorers.
I thought my team "fit wise" was one of the best. Every pick I made was for guys I thought would fit with Rubio and Hollins system. Varejao had a wrist injury which was minor and Gay is fine, plus im 5 mil undrr the cap. Agree my biggest concern is blocking. Thought i deserved much better then 4.5 for offense though.
I have a 10+ ppg player as every starter, as well as two off the bench.
overall good job though. Fun to have a real judge this time.
TS% of starters:
AV - 54% (average)
Hickson - 50% (below average, bad for big)
Gay - 52% (below average)
Webster - 53% (meh)
Rubio - 48% (bad)
DeRozan - 50% (not good)
The fact that not one of your main 6 guys is an efficient scorer also contributes to the ranking. Rubio could help part of this, but he is still very young, and I don't see him raising the team's shooting enough this year to make a big enough difference to create an above-average offense. In the future, if he and DeRozan can both make it into the mid-50s for TS%, and Rubio becomes a top tier distributor like he looks like he will be, I could see a very good offense.
And Hickson scares me on offense, one of the main reasons is because of his inconsistent play. Here are his scoring and TS% for each season/team he's played on:
Team - PPG - TS%
CLE - 4.0 - 55%
CLE - 8.5 - 58%
CLE - 13.8 - 50%
SAC - 4.7 - 42%
POR - 15.1 - 57%
Total - 9.0 - 53%
I just wonder which Hickson will show up? He could be 13-15 PPG on 56-58 TS%, which would be awesome, but what if he struggles? Maybe he will successes with a pass-first PG like Rubio, but the above concerns about shooting are still there on offense.
Re: Build-a-Team 7.0 Contact Info & Discussion Thread - P5
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:05 pm
by NewEra
Kees- First let me say it's obvious you put a lot of time into your rankings and it's appreciated. Thank you.....Now to your ratings...
SMDH!! Man. Looking at those ratings I would hope this is not the official judging system that's going to be used. I'm sorry but it's just terrible.
How does the Orlando team I built end up being the 8th best in the league? I mean seriously. Teams like the eddy curry, eddy curry, eddy curry and eddy curry are not "better than the team I built and I actually thought it was a joke when I saw it. I'm willing to do a board vote on that. Not sure who came up with this judging system but those of us who managed to build a very good team and actually strategically planned things out with our rosters and head coaches didn't put all this time into build a team for the judging system to be as terrible as the one shown in your post.
We put a lot of sleepless nights into this thing. It would be an injustice to have a terribly flawed judging system. It's the most important part of this competition and we shouldn't rush it.
Re: Build-a-Team 7.0 Contact Info & Discussion Thread - P5
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:20 pm
by -Kees-
NewEra wrote:Kees- First let me say it's obvious you put a lot of time into your rankings and it's appreciated. Thank you.....Now to your ratings...
SMDH!! Man. Looking at those ratings I would hope this is not the official judging system that's going to be used. I'm sorry but it's just terrible.
How does the Orlando team I built end up being the 8th best in the league? I mean seriously. Teams like the Pacers, Sixers, Cavs and Lakers are not "better than the team I built and I actually thought it was a joke when I saw it. I'm willing to do a board vote on that. Not sure who came up with this judging system but those of us who managed to build a very good team and actually strategically planned things out with our rosters and head coaches didn't put all this time into build a team for the judging system to be as terrible as the one showm in your post. I also don't think we should rush coming up with a judging system. It's the most important part of this competition.
We put a lot of sleepless nights into this thing. It would be an injustice to have a terribly flawed judging system.
Let me post my case before you get too worked up. First, because you are ranked 8th does not mean you are the 8th best team in the league. Not everything is about winning RIGHT NOW. If you look at your win now rating, it combines for 17.5, which I think is 2nd only to the Spurs (Id have to double check that, but its at the top). Pacers combine for 12.5, 76ers 15, Cavs 14.5, and Lakers 13. I have them all worse than you for the win now. A team with KG, Manu, Prince, as a huge part of its core is not going to be very relevant in 3-5 years. It has a great shot at winning the title now, however.
I also mentioned at the beginning that some win-now teams aren't ranked quite as high as they should be, and yours could be one of those. There was, however, no way of knowing this without doing a full ranking and testing to see how they work. Now, for next time, we know that win now has to have a higher rating, and things like fit and durability have a smaller part in it.
I also understand the time a lot of you put into this. As I mentioned, I play GMaT on the T&T Games Board (which is similar, except no draft, but you always play with salaries), and it takes a ton of work to put the teams together, negotiate with people. I did the best I could with these rankings. You also have to remember that this is a game. Not saying you guys didn't work for it or that it's not important, but it won't kill anyone to be ranked a certain way.
Re: Build-a-Team 7.0 Contact Info & Discussion Thread - P5
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:24 pm
by Grinditout
I think we need to cut Kees a little slack, he even mentioned that there might have been too much emphasis put on win future category. Anyways even though I disagree with my team ranking(I'd consider my team at least top 15) it would be a bit extreme to throw his rankings out.
Re: Build-a-Team 7.0 Contact Info & Discussion Thread - P5
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:31 pm
by moocow007
NewEra wrote:Kees- First let me say it's obvious you put a lot of time into your rankings and it's appreciated. Thank you.....Now to your ratings...
SMDH!! Man. Looking at those ratings I would hope this is not the official judging system that's going to be used. I'm sorry but it's just terrible.
How does the Orlando team I built end up being the 8th best in the league? I mean seriously. Teams like the Pacers, Sixers, Cavs and Lakers are not "better than the team I built and I actually thought it was a joke when I saw it. I'm willing to do a board vote on that. Not sure who came up with this judging system but those of us who managed to build a very good team and actually strategically planned things out with our rosters and head coaches didn't put all this time into build a team for the judging system to be as terrible as the one showm in your post. I also don't think we should rush coming up with a judging system. It's the most important part of this competition.
We put a lot of sleepless nights into this thing. It would be an injustice to have a terribly flawed judging system.
At least you didn't get screwed as much as my team was lol. Holy mother cow. Seems like Kees is a fan of stats (rather than instinct) and favors defense over offense by a considerable margin and definitely not a fan of bully ball. My team's offensive rating is also pretty low which is just mind boggling. Didn't bother to account for the fact that Carlisles BIGGEST strength is being able to fit players to his system and win and get the most out of the guys he has. All I get is a basically "Carliles a good coach and all".
Re: Build-a-Team 7.0 Contact Info & Discussion Thread - P5
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:40 pm
by br7knicks
didnt read mine yet if its up. but if we dont like kees' judging, we should be judges or next bat
Re: Build-a-Team 7.0 Contact Info & Discussion Thread - P5
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:40 pm
by moocow007
Grinditout wrote:I think we need to cut Kees a little slack, he even mentioned that there might have been too much emphasis put on win future category. Anyways even though I disagree with my team ranking(I'd consider my team at least top 15) it would be a bit extreme to throw his rankings out.
I considered myself top 5 ESPECIALLY in terms of wnning now. What I've basically done is to build the team off of both the Dallas model (with more talent) which really was offense based on put a better team around Anthony than he had with the Knicks. And yet, I'm basically in the lottery.
Re: Build-a-Team 7.0 Contact Info & Discussion Thread - P5
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:42 pm
by Grinditout
moocow007 wrote:Grinditout wrote:I think we need to cut Kees a little slack, he even mentioned that there might have been too much emphasis put on win future category. Anyways even though I disagree with my team ranking(I'd consider my team at least top 15) it would be a bit extreme to throw his rankings out.
I considered myself top 5 ESPECIALLY in terms of wnning now. What I've basically done is to build the team off of both the Dallas model (with more talent) which really was offense based on put a better team around Anthony than he had with the Knicks. And yet, I'm basically in the lottery.
I had your team in the final 4, but every has a different opinion. Maybe we need to get more judges if possible.
Re: Build-a-Team 7.0 Contact Info & Discussion Thread - P5
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:46 pm
by Smoke24
He Put in a lot of time and effort in these rankings. Thanks man, appreciate it.
Time to find more judges to balance this out...
Re: Build-a-Team 7.0 Contact Info & Discussion Thread - P5
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:48 pm
by br7knicks
i thought i was better in some categories than a lot of teams ahead me, but i appreciate it kees. thanks man!
Re: Build-a-Team 7.0 Contact Info & Discussion Thread - P5
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:48 pm
by moocow007
Grinditout wrote:moocow007 wrote:Grinditout wrote:I think we need to cut Kees a little slack, he even mentioned that there might have been too much emphasis put on win future category. Anyways even though I disagree with my team ranking(I'd consider my team at least top 15) it would be a bit extreme to throw his rankings out.
I considered myself top 5 ESPECIALLY in terms of wnning now. What I've basically done is to build the team off of both the Dallas model (with more talent) which really was offense based on put a better team around Anthony than he had with the Knicks. And yet, I'm basically in the lottery.
I had your team in the final 4, but every has a different opinion. Maybe we need to get more judges if possible.
Yeah. We need more judges.
Re: Build-a-Team 7.0 Contact Info & Discussion Thread - P5
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:51 pm
by ezmoney707
I will reserve my comments.
Re: Build-a-Team 7.0 Contact Info & Discussion Thread - P5
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:01 pm
by NewEra
-Kees- wrote:NewEra wrote:Kees- First let me say it's obvious you put a lot of time into your rankings and it's appreciated. Thank you.....Now to your ratings...
SMDH!! Man. Looking at those ratings I would hope this is not the official judging system that's going to be used. I'm sorry but it's just terrible.
How does the Orlando team I built end up being the 8th best in the league? I mean seriously. Teams like the Pacers, Sixers, Cavs and Lakers are not "better than the team I built and I actually thought it was a joke when I saw it. I'm willing to do a board vote on that. Not sure who came up with this judging system but those of us who managed to build a very good team and actually strategically planned things out with our rosters and head coaches didn't put all this time into build a team for the judging system to be as terrible as the one showm in your post. I also don't think we should rush coming up with a judging system. It's the most important part of this competition.
We put a lot of sleepless nights into this thing. It would be an injustice to have a terribly flawed judging system.
Let me post my case before you get too worked up. First, because you are ranked 8th does not mean you are the 8th best team in the league. Not everything is about winning RIGHT NOW. If you look at your win now rating, it combines for 17.5, which I think is 2nd only to the Spurs (Id have to double check that, but its at the top). Pacers combine for 12.5, 76ers 15, Cavs 14.5, and Lakers 13. I have them all worse than you for the win now. A team with KG, Manu, Prince, as a huge part of its core is not going to be very relevant in 3-5 years. It has a great shot at winning the title now, however.
I also mentioned at the beginning that some win-now teams aren't ranked quite as high as they should be, and yours could be one of those. There was, however, no way of knowing this without doing a full ranking and testing to see how they work. Now, for next time, we know that win now has to have a higher rating, and things like fit and durability have a smaller part in it.
I also understand the time a lot of you put into this. As I mentioned, I play GMaT on the T&T Games Board (which is similar, except no draft, but you always play with salaries), and it takes a ton of work to put the teams together, negotiate with people. I did the best I could with these rankings. You also have to remember that this is a game. Not saying you guys didn't work for it or that it's not important, but it won't kill anyone to be ranked a certain way.
Sorry if I came off as being worked up bro. I'm not worked up at all, it's only a game and to be honest it's fun to read the ratings. I was just stating how I feel. You can't please everybody with these things and I understand that.
Re: Build-a-Team 7.0 Contact Info & Discussion Thread - P5
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:03 pm
by NewEra
More consideration needs to be taken into account for coaches.
Re: Build-a-Team 7.0 Contact Info & Discussion Thread - P5
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:07 pm
by mpharris36
I know we all appreciate what KEES did and we have to make that known because he seemed like he took a lot of time and effort evaluating every team.
Of course to some degree a human is going to subjective to what he thinks makes the best team. Everyone has there opinions. To balance that out you have to get multiple judges to take one person subjectiveness out of the equation.
Again I agreed with a lot of what KEES said and do believe he got a lot of teams right especially the top team right
I do believe he overlooked some teams (especially Moo's team) which does have a dallas type feel to it.
But the solution is to get more judges...5 maybe more...just to balance out personal opinions and value the best teams.
But we all need to understand the time and effort he put in. Especially explaining his values which seemed logical for the most part.