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Dissecting Lin
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:37 am
by qam
Just throwing it out there (since there have been so many arguments against Felton's stint in NY under D'Antoni, and how he only produced because of the 'system'):
Jeremy Lin under D'Antoni: 20.1 pts, 8.6 ast (18 gms)
Jeremy Lin under Woodson: 13.3 pts, 5.4 ast (7 gms)
Jeremy Lin playing with A'mare (Melo injured): 22.8 pts, 10.8 ast (4 gms)
Jeremy Lin playing with Carmelo (A'mare injured): 28 pts, 8 ast (1 gm)
Jeremy Lin (both A'mare and Carmelo injured): 27.0 pts, 8.3 ast (3 gms)
Jeremy Lin Playing with A'mare and Carmelo: 15.0 pts, 6.8 ast (17 gms)
Two things stand out:
1) His numbers may have been inflated under D'Antoni's system (sound familiar?)
2) His numbers don't look very impressive when both A'mare and Carmelo are on the court.
I know these are all small samples, but everything we know about Jeremy Lin is a small sample.
Re: Dissecting Lin
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:50 am
by StyLeD
Still better than Felton.
Re: Dissecting Lin
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:53 am
by SuperflyKnick
maybe when he shows up more then 25 gms....
Re: Dissecting Lin
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:55 am
by NYchris
If dolan is serious about being contenders he matches lin I have a feeling within my lifetime I wont see a knicks championship.
Re: Dissecting Lin
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:56 am
by GettinitDone
I should add those are rookie numbers.
Take his 2 worst numbers:
Jeremy Lin under Woodson: 13.3 pts, 5.4 ast (7 gms)
Jeremy Lin Playing with A'mare and Carmelo: 15.0 pts, 6.8 ast (17 gms)
I'd take a rookie who average those numbers. But what's not seen in the numbers are his composure, his juice to play in the clutch, his control of pace, his leadership, his character, his "I can follow as well as I can lead" style, his smart, his work ethic, his good head, his passion for game. He displayed all these as if he was a 5+ year veteran when he was playing under immense pressure of verge of being cut, pressure of world's biggest media and unforgiving sport fanbase, yet he met/ exceeded expectations time and time again.
Lin is the complete package of intangible qualities you could want from a player. He certainly wouldn't let stuff like women, over-partying, drugs, power, money, foods (like so many players fall into) stand between him and his love for the game. He is a true basketball junkie. If you stick around long enough doing something, you're bound to have success in that, so he's progressing toward basketball greatness. With no obstacles standing between him and greatness, I truly believe only injuries do like they do for all athletes.
Re: Dissecting Lin
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:58 am
by knicksnyk
qam wrote:Just throwing it out there (since there have been so many arguments against Felton's stint in NY under D'Antoni, and how he only produced because of the 'system'):
Jeremy Lin under D'Antoni: 20.1 pts, 8.6 ast (18 gms)
Jeremy Lin under Woodson: 13.3 pts, 5.4 ast (7 gms)
Jeremy Lin playing with A'mare (Melo injured): 22.8 pts, 10.8 ast (4 gms)
Jeremy Lin playing with Carmelo (A'mare injured): 28 pts, 8 ast (1 gm)
Jeremy Lin (both A'mare and Carmelo injured): 27.0 pts, 8.3 ast (3 gms)
Jeremy Lin Playing with A'mare and Carmelo: 15.0 pts, 6.8 ast (17 gms)
Two things stand out:
1) His numbers may have been inflated under D'Antoni's system (sound familiar?)
2) His numbers don't look very impressive when both A'mare and Carmelo are on the court.
I know these are all small samples, but everything we know about Jeremy Lin is a small sample.
Considering that these were his numbers after about 19 starts in the NBA I find that quite impressive. Also remember in these games we were blowing out teams that our starters were playing reduced minutes. The offense was running less through Lin and more through Melo so less opportunity for Lin's starts to be higher. What do those numbers matter when he was helping us win games by managing and directing the offense. This is a highly myopic view of things to just look at numbers in an effort to dissect him. Also, melo was in his shooting slump then so Lin's assists figures could have been higher. But once again we were winning games so who cares about individual numbers when he was a big part of the reason as to why we were winning.
Re: Dissecting Lin
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:01 am
by spaceballer
You forgot to account for minutes played. D'Antoni rode him for crazy overload minutes. His minutes were reduced under Woodson, often because the starters didn't play as much due to blowouts. When you normalize the numbers for minutes played as well as change in usage, they didn't suffer such a bad drop off under Woodson. His efficiency might even have been higher under Woodson.
Re: Dissecting Lin
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:01 am
by GONYK
Are we going to ignore that Lin only played like 29 mins a game under Woodson because we were beating teams by 20 points every night, and he was sitting out the 4th qtr?
Re: Dissecting Lin
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:03 am
by drekwins
If his range, in a best and worst case scenario, is between 13.3-28.8 points per game and 5.4-10.8 assists per game, then that's pretty good. That implies, that at worst, he is a 23 year old already worthy of a starting position. At best, he is at or near the level of the best PG's in the game. Listen, I'm not a diehard Lin fan but with so much turnover in the NBA, why not sign him and worry about it later? It's still a dollar for dollar tax this season. By the time year 3 comes around, we will have draft picks and a ton of expirings. If we are still worried 2 years from now, just unload some salary. We'll have the pieces to do so.
Re: Dissecting Lin
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:03 am
by jzmagik
GONYK wrote:Are we going to ignore that Lin only played like 29 mins a game under Woodson because we were beating teams by 20 points every night, and he was sitting out the 4th qtr?
Lin should be grateful that he was even playing in those games, it was Melo carrying his sorry-ass throughout the season
Re: Dissecting Lin
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:05 am
by Sideline Story
GONYK wrote:Are we going to ignore that Lin only played like 29 mins a game under Woodson because we were beating teams by 20 points every night, and he was sitting out the 4th qtr?
Of course. That's just how we do it here on RGM!
Re: Dissecting Lin
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:06 am
by Bravery
GONYK wrote:Are we going to ignore that Lin only played like 29 mins a game under Woodson because we were beating teams by 20 points every night, and he was sitting out the 4th qtr?
Re: Dissecting Lin
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:09 am
by BayareaKnicks
GettinitDone wrote:I should add those are rookie numbers.
Take his 2 worst numbers:
Jeremy Lin under Woodson: 13.3 pts, 5.4 ast (7 gms)
Jeremy Lin Playing with A'mare and Carmelo: 15.0 pts, 6.8 ast (17 gms)
I'd take a rookie who average those numbers. But what's not seen in the numbers are his composure, his juice to play in the clutch, his control of pace, his leadership, his character, his "I can follow as well as I can lead" style, his smart, his work ethic, his good head, his passion for game. He displayed all these as if he was a 5+ year veteran when he was playing under immense pressure of verge of being cut, pressure of world's biggest media and unforgiving sport fanbase, yet he met/ exceeded expectations time and time again.
Lin is the complete package of intangible qualities you could want from a player. He certainly wouldn't let stuff like women, over-partying, drugs, power, money, foods (like so many players fall into) stand between him and his love for the game. He is a true basketball junkie. If you stick around long enough doing something, you're bound to have success in that, so he's progressing toward basketball greatness. With no obstacles standing between him and greatness, I truly believe only injuries do like they do for all athletes.
well said.
This kid has that it factor. He doesn't shy away from the moment. He thrives in the fourth quarter.
Honestly, I think this kid ran out of gas after playing so many minutes towards the latter part of the season. Those sick 7 first starts were not a fluke. He is the real deal. Hope Dolan realizes this.
Re: Dissecting Lin
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:13 am
by LINearity Wins
"Lin should be grateful that he was even playing in those games, it was Melo carrying his sorry-ass throughout the season"
Before Linsanity : Melo's FG <40% average less than 20pts per game
And Knicks recorded 8-15 , on the bottom of east conference
Who carried whom?
Well Lin REALLY should be grateful because under there is no hope situation, then he could play so long time in a game
Re: Dissecting Lin
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:14 am
by JohnStockton
I know some of you are mad at Jeremy Lin right now but it's no cause to try to kill and harvest his organs.
Re: Dissecting Lin
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:15 am
by ibraheim718
GONYK wrote:Are we going to ignore that Lin only played like 29 mins a game under Woodson because we were beating teams by 20 points every night, and he was sitting out the 4th qtr?
His job also was to play his position and lead the team to wins firstly and get the scorers involved. But he can carry a team through a stretch in a game or games.
Re: Dissecting Lin
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:15 am
by polarbears815
Jeremy Lin may regress a bit in the coming weeks, but his early numbers indicate that he is much more than one week wonder.
A look at just how good Lin has been shows just how the Knicks have been able to turn their season around. In his first four starts, Lin has scored 27.3 points per game. No player has scored more points in their first four games as a starter since the NBA-ABA merger in 1976.
Here are the top four scorers in their first four NBA starts...
Jeremy Lin - 27.3 points per game
Allen Iverson - 25.3 ppg
Shaquille O'Neal - 25.0 ppg
Michael Jordan - 24.8 ppg
Read more:
http://articles.businessinsider.com/201 ... z20l971DHJBut yeah. I'm sure he's just a fluke.
In all seriousness though, Lin may never ever be as good as Iverson, O'Neal, or Jordan. But he's definitely not the scrub some people think he is either. Most likely it is in-between. Still, that's good company to be in. Those numbers just don't happen by accident.
Re: Dissecting Lin
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:25 am
by spaceballer
They analyzed his numbers with a look at the historical record. The conclusion is that he's no fluke
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.co ... -no-fluke/Notice that Jeremy Lin makes the cut-off, but one-hit wonders and real flukes like Flip Murray don't make the list. Lin is no fluke.
And Fat Felton is nowhere to be found. So Fatton's stretch of supposedly good play is nowhere comparable to the numbers analyzed in the database. He's not even in the same ballpark as that list.
Re: Dissecting Lin
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:30 am
by Greenie
GettinitDone wrote:I should add those are rookie numbers.
Take his 2 worst numbers:
Jeremy Lin under Woodson: 13.3 pts, 5.4 ast (7 gms)
Jeremy Lin Playing with A'mare and Carmelo: 15.0 pts, 6.8 ast (17 gms)
I'd take a rookie who average those numbers. But what's not seen in the numbers are his composure, his juice to play in the clutch, his control of pace, his leadership, his character, his "I can follow as well as I can lead" style, his smart, his work ethic, his good head, his passion for game. He displayed all these as if he was a 5+ year veteran when he was playing under immense pressure of verge of being cut, pressure of world's biggest media and unforgiving sport fanbase, yet he met/ exceeded expectations time and time again.
Lin is the complete package of intangible qualities you could want from a player. He certainly wouldn't let stuff like women, over-partying, drugs, power, money, foods (like so many players fall into) stand between him and his love for the game. He is a true basketball junkie. If you stick around long enough doing something, you're bound to have success in that, so he's progressing toward basketball greatness. With no obstacles standing between him and greatness, I truly believe only injuries do like they do for all athletes.
Lin ain't no rookie.
Re: Dissecting Lin
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:52 am
by CoolKids
JohnStockton wrote:I know some of you are mad at Jeremy Lin right now but it's no cause to try to kill and harvest his organs.
I like this guy