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We have our 2017 draft pick, among others. We also have cap space and a some win-now pieces in guys like Melo and Lopez.

Do we ignore Melo & Co. and pull another '15 in the hopes of landing some big talent to play along porzingis for years to come, or do we go all in for playoff push and beyond and accepting wherever the cards fall.

Pros of tanking:
- The draft is by far the best way of landing talent, especially talent that coincide with Porzingis' time frame (unlike Melo)
- We have all of our first round draft picks after 2016. If we stick to tanking we can land a bunch of high picks to increase our chances of landing bigtime talent for years to come and maybe setup a juggernaut dynasty in the future
Cons of tanking:
- The gambles fail and we draft a bunch of busts with nothing to show for it
- Porzingis' growth might be stunted
- Angry/impatient fans and media putting pressure and causing dysfunction
- What do we do with Melo, who could drop 20 ppg in his sleep?
- Knicks associated with losing culture and we become the next sixers


Pros of trying to be competitive:
- Better for Porzingis' development and mentality, especially if he gets playoff experience
- We make use of Melo and Lopez
- Become more enticing for free agents
- Winning more games abates all the controversy and toxic media
- Not tanking doesnt mean we lose our draft picks. We still have our picks and could find gems in the later picks.
Cons of trying to be competitive:
- Lose out on potential talent in exchange for inconsequential wins (ex - like we lost out on Curry and Love)
- Nobody will be happy with anything short of a championship
- Coaching is a big question mark
- History has shown us that championship teams need all time great talent to win. Do we have that kind of centerpiece yet?

if you can get first round picks for melo and for lopez and stockpile 3-4 first round picks for a super draft, then hell yes

CluelessJackson wrote:if you can get first round picks for melo and for lopez and stockpile 3-4 first round picks for a super draft, then hell yes

Porzingis could learn a lot from Melo, Lopez, and winning.

Basketball is not played on paper. Chemistry, winning, culture, motivation, and veteran tutelage are real things.

And how many picks can we develop anyway? we already have '17 and '18 (not to mention 2nd round picks). We don't lose '17 and '18 if we decide not to tank.

is actively investing in a losing season worth it after we've already gotten an elite rookie?

CluelessJackson wrote:if you can get first round picks for melo and for lopez and stockpile 3-4 first round picks for a super draft, then hell yes

Any picks you have in mind? Melo can still net us a top 5 pick.

Jeffrey wrote:

CluelessJackson wrote:if you can get first round picks for melo and for lopez and stockpile 3-4 first round picks for a super draft, then hell yes

Any picks you have in mind? Melo can still net us a top 5 pick.

From who?

This thread might be premature.

If Durant passes on this team, as he most likely will, then the answer is Yes.

we have to find the talent somewhere, and I'm not too keen on overpaying guys who aren't going to make us instant championship contenders.

Jeffrey wrote:

CluelessJackson wrote:if you can get first round picks for melo and for lopez and stockpile 3-4 first round picks for a super draft, then hell yes

Any picks you have in mind? Melo can still net us a top 5 pick.

dunno. just saying if that can be done i am down with it. i will leave the details to our crack team of trade checkers

The team doesn't want to tank so it really doesn't matter. Their goal is clear...become a playoff team next season.

GONYK wrote:

Jeffrey wrote:

CluelessJackson wrote:if you can get first round picks for melo and for lopez and stockpile 3-4 first round picks for a super draft, then hell yes

Any picks you have in mind? Melo can still net us a top 5 pick.

From who?

Sorry let me rephrase that. He is still worth a top 5 pick. Since we can't get any top 5 pick, it might have to be a form of a three way trade. (see Boston rumored deal)

If boston gets the no.1 or 2 pick in this draft, they are not trading it. If they do slide down to the no.4 they might revisit that Love trade.

In 4-5 years we're gonna watch KP lead a team of scrubs to the finals against Towns, Wiggins, and the Wolves, and lose.

And then we're gonna say "I wish we gotten KP a good teammate to go up against that stacked team". It's inevitable.

Sark wrote:In 4-5 years we're gonna watch KP lead a team of scrubs to the finals against Towns, Wiggins, and the Wolves, and lose.

And then we're gonna say "I wish we gotten KP a good teammate to go up against that stacked team". It's inevitable.

I'd accept that, but i doubt either scenario happens

The Knicks should most definitely NOT tank. First of all, tanking decreases all the players' values, WEAKENING the Knicks bargaining position in BOTH free agency and trading. Second of all, the Knicks got it right with Porzingis, but we dont have Isiah to pick the next Tracy Mcgrady here. Ok, that one's a little below the belt - the point is the draft is not an exact science. For every Draymond Green, there's dozens of Gerald Greens.

Lastly, why in God's name, after going through the season we just had, would you say 'PLEASE SIR CAN I HAVE MORE ?'

Now if the Knicks only have a dozen wins mid season in 2017, OK... maybe you can subtly call a press conference shutting down Melo for the year and let the Knicks have a slightly better pick. But, IMO, you can't walk into next year and just waste everyone's time. It's demoralizing to the fanbase, but it's a hundred times worse for alpha personality athletes.

Tanking is for cowards.

Whether it's planned or not, we will be tanking. We won't be getting a good coach and no worthwhile free agents will want to sign here unless we over pay and hand cuff ourselves in the future

IAmTheBest wrote:

CluelessJackson wrote:if you can get first round picks for melo and for lopez and stockpile 3-4 first round picks for a super draft, then hell yes

Porzingis could learn a lot from Melo, Lopez, and winning.

Basketball is not played on paper. Chemistry, winning, culture, motivation, and veteran tutelage are real things.

And how many picks can we develop anyway? we already have '17 and '18 (not to mention 2nd round picks). We don't lose '17 and '18 if we decide not to tank.

is actively investing in a losing season worth it after we've already gotten an elite rookie?

People make it out to be just that easy.

1. Melo has to want to go
2. If Melo agrees it'll be with a team that's playoff bound so no picks that we would seem worth it. We would have to add a 3rd team to the mix and yeah it maybe easy on paper, it's. Definitely not that easy.
3. The only players holding us back from any thing are Calderon and Afflalo inwhich Calderon's salary is now equal to a bench player and he's expiring, and Afflalo can choose to go elsewhere.
We are are in a very good position where we just need a few pieces to go with what we have but people are so quick to say we can do better through the draft. Yeah the only team out there that has been truly successful from the draft is GS oh and sort of Cleveland with LBJ. All the others are no greater than 6th seed After rebuilding through the draft. Teams like Philly, Sac town, Denver, and Orlando will forever be in the Lotto with nothing to show for.
I'd rather stick to the plan and add pieces to what we have. We don't have to spend all we have on this weak FA this year. I'm happy with one year rentals and then go into FA next year with guns blazing.
Even if we come up with 10to 14th pick in the draft we're still in a great position in a stacked draft inwhich we've seen more all stars go 6-14th over 1–5. We have way more to lose by tanking than we do by winning. More players try to sign with winning franchises (San Antonio) over loses (Brooklyn)

Now let's say we did over pay for say Batum, he himself along with Melo, Rolo, and KP make us a possible 6th seed team. Come 2017 we and our draft pick and another free agent like CP3 or even Westbrook then we have a Championship caliber team. Now I'm not saying that this is going to happen but the possibility are there, we just have to be patient and stay positive. I swear any little thing that goes wrong with MY people go on a rampage like OMG we're all going to die we need to blow it up!

malik959 wrote:

IAmTheBest wrote:

CluelessJackson wrote:if you can get first round picks for melo and for lopez and stockpile 3-4 first round picks for a super draft, then hell yes

Porzingis could learn a lot from Melo, Lopez, and winning.

Basketball is not played on paper. Chemistry, winning, culture, motivation, and veteran tutelage are real things.

And how many picks can we develop anyway? we already have '17 and '18 (not to mention 2nd round picks). We don't lose '17 and '18 if we decide not to tank.

is actively investing in a losing season worth it after we've already gotten an elite rookie?

People make it out to be just that easy.

1. Melo has to want to go
2. If Melo agrees it'll be with a team that's playoff bound so no picks that we would seem worth it. We would have to add a 3rd team to the mix and yeah it maybe easy on paper, it's. Definitely not that easy.
3. The only players holding us back from any thing are Calderon and Afflalo inwhich Calderon's salary is now equal to a bench player and he's expiring, and Afflalo can choose to go elsewhere.
We are are in a very good position where we just need a few pieces to go with what we have but people are so quick to say we can do better through the draft. Yeah the only team out there that has been truly successful from the draft is GS oh and sort of Cleveland with LBJ. All the others are no greater than 6th seed After rebuilding through the draft. Teams like Philly, Sac town, Denver, and Orlando will forever be in the Lotto with nothing to show for.
I'd rather stick to the plan and add pieces to what we have. We don't have to spend all we have on this weak FA this year. I'm happy with one year rentals and then go into FA next year with guns blazing.
Even if we come up with 10to 14th pick in the draft we're still in a great position in a stacked draft inwhich we've seen more all stars go 6-14th over 1–5. We have way more to lose by tanking than we do by winning. More players try to sign with winning franchises (San Antonio) over loses (Brooklyn)

Now let's say we did over pay for say Batum, he himself along with Melo, Rolo, and KP make us a possible 6th seed team. Come 2017 we and our draft pick and another free agent like CP3 or even Westbrook then we have a Championship caliber team. Now I'm not saying that this is going to happen but the possibility are there, we just have to be patient and stay positive. I swear any little thing that goes wrong with MY people go on a rampage like OMG we're all going to die we need to blow it up!

i saw no comments of any kind saying anything is easy. if may be very difficult to make happen. thats why i dont say do this or do that. I say if it possible and can happen then do it. otherwise there is no reason to blow up a team

but mixed approaches dont work either. and that is the heart of the problem already and one of the key distinctions of the jackson era which is sort of rebuilding not fully rebuilding

so i am all for tearing things down if you can get draft picks for our two most tradeable assets (melo and lopez) for two basic reasons

1 is kp. adding other star quality rookies to a team with a possible superstar is how you build championship teams

2 a loaded draft (i dont follow college but if so many are saying this is a mega draft then you dont look the other direction you ask how can we be a big player in the draft)

Id prefer to get what we can for melo now and move on (aka tank), but it's probably not happening

Thugger HBC wrote:

Sark wrote:In 4-5 years we're gonna watch KP lead a team of scrubs to the finals against Towns, Wiggins, and the Wolves, and lose.

And then we're gonna say "I wish we gotten KP a good teammate to go up against that stacked team". It's inevitable.

I'd accept that, but i doubt either scenario happens

I can deal with another finals loss, as long as I know we'll get multiple chances at it. I don't want to see another one and done like Ewing's era.

Let's address the elephant in the room. The pelicans won 34 games in Anthony Davis second season, Jrue Holiday missed 48 games. If Porzingis makes the the same leap in his 2nd year than the tank will be an unmitigated failure. The time to tank was this year if you wanted another future all-star. it's too late to tank, Porzinigs will ruin the tank, he can be that good.