Page 1 of 14

Free Agent Power Rankings: Point Guards

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 8:53 pm
by Scalabrine
I've done this the past few off-seasons and it's brought about some good conversation about who we want to acquire and which guys are available.

This year the Knicks are going to have anywhere between 20-34 million in cap space to improve our team. We have a solid foundation in the front court with Melo, KP, Lopez, and O'Quinn all locked into solid deals for the next few years. Derrick Williams is likely to opt-out, which should free up some capspace, but we lose an explosive player that I think is a solid end of the rotation player that we will need to replace. I think our biggest holes to fill are 1. Backcourt and 2. Depth.

With a rotation of Jose Calderon, Langston Galloway, and Jerian Grant, we probably had the worst (when healthy) point guard rotation in the entire league. Jerian Grant definitely showed some flashes, and I am encouraged with him going forward. He has great size, and tools to be a starting caliber point guard. Perennial All-Star? Probably not, but a middle of the pack starting PG is realistic, in my opinion. I was really encouraged by his improvements on his outside shot and his defense from the start to the end of the season. Overall, I dont think having a true point guard is an absolute top priority for the triangle offense. Having a guy that is unselfish, and can defend, shoot, and limit turnovers is the basic requirement. Having a guy that can get into the paint and make plays for others would be great, but I think the point guard is more a complementary piece in the triangle.

Here's my list of the top free agent point guards available in the 2016 NBA Offseason and estimated salary info I think it would take (purely speculative, and pulled out of my ass, ESPN would call this "sources"... feel free to disagree):

1. Mike Conley - UFA - 28yo - 20-25 million (max) dollars per year - For years he's been considered the most underrated player in the league. He isn't a superstar, but he is tough as nails, and meets the requirements of our point guard that I listed. His price tag is what worries me though. While 28 isn't old, he just had a season ending achilles injury, it wasn't a tear, but it's still concerning. If we signed him, there wouldn't be much more space to bring in any other big impact players, but adding him to KP, Melo, and RoLo would put us in a great position for next year, while allowing us to compete for the playoffs.

2. Rajon Rondo - UFA - 30yo - 10-15 million per year - There has been public reports of at least minor interest between the two parties. It seems like he's a guy that Melo will be (or already has?) been recruiting. He definitely has talent and he is also tough as nails, but he is past his prime already, and has some major flaws. I'm not sure his skill-set and ball dominance is a great fit for our offense but he will get Melo, KP, and RoLo easy looks. The Kings took a gamble on him last year, and I think he upped his value, but I doubt any team will really want to give him any long term deal. It could be a good move to allow us to compete right now and let Grant and KP develop on a winning team while not committing long-term money. Would he leave Cousins and the Kings?

3. Jordan Clarkson - RFA - 23yo - 6 million per year (poison pill) - He's intriguing, he's a great scorer from all over the floor and as a 2nd round pick, he now has a max contract starting at around 6 million but then backloaded similar to the way Lin had his structured. He would be a great piece to add, but the only way the Lakers dont match his contract would be if one of the top FA's hinted that they should keep space open for them.

4. Mathew Dellavedova - RFA - 25 - 9-13 million per year - I love his style of play. He's just hardworking, pesky, and relentless. Other players hate playing against him. I want that to be a trait of our players. He's a threat from 3 and he is unselfish. I'm not incredibly into him as our number 1 ball handler, and his price tag will probably be a bit higher than we might want to go but it would also pull an impact player off of Cleveland. He'd be a great fit as a triangle point guard, but he's definitely a borderline starting point guard in the NBA and the price would hurt a little!

5. Jeremy Lin - PO - 27yo - 8-12 million per year - He's likely to opt out of his deal this summer. Bring Lin back where it all started? Fans would love it and he's expressed interest in a return. He's not the best fit, but he's still kind of young, and he's a smart player that can get to the hole and get defenses out of position. I would welcome him back for sure if we could get him on a shorter deal.

6. Ish Smith - UFA - 27yo - 8-12 million per year - A career journeyman that really found his niche last year with the Sixers, and proved that the year before was not a total fluke. He's got a great handle, he gets into the paint, and he knows how to get his teammates the ball in the right spots, but he can't shoot and his defense isn't that great either. He also did this all on one of the worst teams in NBA history, so I think he will still have some doubters still.

7. Jerryd Bayless - UFA - 27yo - 5-9 million per year - I think he is a great fit in the triangle personally. He can handle the ball, he's a great shooter, very unselfish, and he is a good locker room presence. He can be a starter or a bench player for us but he would definitely be a rotation player and could be looked at as a stop gap.

8. Deron Williams - UFA - 31 - 8-12 million per year - He played pretty well and stayed healthy for most of the year. His minutes have to be managed and he did run out of gas late. He's not getting any younger, and he had a pretty unsucessful run in New York with the Nets. I don't think either party is interested in a return but I would put him here if there was.

9. Ty Lawson - UFA - 28yo - 2-4 million per year - He's really fallen off, and I would be worried about him in New York, but it is fairly low risk as I'm sure he would want a shorter deal to prove himself. We would be able to offer him minutes, which might be appealing. We had a chance to sign him and try him out mid-season and we either didn't reach out, or he chose a team with playoff hopes that would give him some minutes. Either way I wouldn't mind looking into him this offseason.

10. Grevis Vazquez - UFA - 29 - 3-7 million - He's a big point guard with some unique skills. Pretty smart and unselfish player, not great at anything and not very impactful defensively and has some injury issues. I could see him also signing a 1 year with a PO for year 2 deal to try to up his value for next year on a team that will give him some minutes. That's pretty much the only reason I would be interested in him.

11. Norris Cole - UFA - 27 - 4-8 million - He's a backup point guard, spot starter. I don't think he is much better than what we have (if better at all), and he would take minutes away from Grant but still, we need depth, and talent, and he is a capable rotation player with a winning pedigree.

12. Brandon Jennings - UFA - 26 - 3-7 million - I'm not a big fan, I don't think Phil is either. He's coming off a very serious injury that not many players have come back from. Still, he was looking like he was finally getting "it" before the injury, under SVG, but he is still a very inefficient scorer and doesn't really fit what we are trying to do. My interest in him is mainly because I think he would be willing to take a small short deal to play for a team that will give him a chance to up his value. We need talent if we want to compete, and he has a different skill-set than the rest of our guards. I'd take a flyer if he comes cheap and on a short deal. Not really interested otherwise.

Others: Langston Galloway (who I think we bring back), DJ Augustin, Isaiah Canaan, Marcelo Huertas, Tim Frazier, Aaron Brooks

*I edited the list to add some guys that I forgot to mention.

Overall, this is really not an impressive free agent class for point guards. Conley is a gamble of a deal that could hurt in the long-run. Rondo is a gamble in terms of fit and chemistry. Clarkson is unlikely. The rest would be below average starting point guards or not better than what we already have. We could go the trade route with Jeff Teague (or Schroeder) or Darren Collison (the only potential trade targets that really push the needle that seem somewhat available), or keep Calderon around and continue to develop Grant and Galloway while trying to get a swingman that can alleviate some of the ball handling and playmaking responsibilities.

The 2017 free agent class is going to be very Point Guard heavy. Westbrook, Teague, Holiday, Rose, Hill, Jack, Collison will all be UFA's and Oladipo, MCW, and Schroeder will be RFA's. There's definitely some logic in trying to strengthen other positions this summer and seeing what we have with Grant while Calderon plays out the rest of his deal.

What do you guys think of this list? Who intrigues you? What would you like Phil and Mills to do this Summer with our Point Guard rotation? What do you see Phil and Mills actually doing with our Point Guard rotation?

Discuss.

Re: Free Agent Power Rankings: Point Guards

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 9:05 pm
by King of Canada
It's the sh*t list unfortunately

Edited to add - great work. I'm just referring to the not so great lineup of available pgs. I lean toward Lin. He's turned into a real pro, and would be a good guy to pair up with a great SG or either a high end pg next summer.

Re: Free Agent Power Rankings: Point Guards

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 9:10 pm
by NYKnicksTAPE
This list is pretty depressing. Signing Conley is pretty risky, I don't want Rondo on this team, we probably won't get Clarkson, we probably won't go after Lin, Bayless, Vasquez, and Cole aren't that good, Lawson has issues and looked horrible all year, and Jennings is coming off a serious injury. Sigh...

I'm just hoping that we can come out of this offseason with a legit starting caliber SG.

Re: Free Agent Power Rankings: Point Guards

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 9:13 pm
by xNewYorkMadex
Dont think at all Rondo would settle for 10-15 M.

That guy is gonna get 17-20M. I dont want Rondo, but someone will pay him alot of money. Clarkson is also getting way more than 6M. Hes getting double that.

I feel Deron Williams would be a good fit for us. Likely not expensive, vet who knows how to play and can still attack the rim. Someone told me on here that he hates playing in NY now though. But I would reach out to him to see if hes interested. Still puts up 14PPG/6APG.

Re: Free Agent Power Rankings: Point Guards

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 9:13 pm
by King of Canada
NYKnicksTAPE wrote:This list is pretty depressing. Signing Conley is pretty risky, I don't want Rondo on this team, we probably won't get Clarkson, we probably won't go after Lin, Bayless, Vasquez, and Cole aren't that good, Lawson has issues and looked horrible all year, and Jennings is coming off a serious injury. Sigh...

I'm just hoping that we can come out of this offseason with a legit starting caliber SG.


That's my thinking too and why I like Lin. He's not a negative, and would leave space to throw at a SG.

Re: Free Agent Power Rankings: Point Guards

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 9:16 pm
by GONYK
King of Canada wrote:
NYKnicksTAPE wrote:This list is pretty depressing. Signing Conley is pretty risky, I don't want Rondo on this team, we probably won't get Clarkson, we probably won't go after Lin, Bayless, Vasquez, and Cole aren't that good, Lawson has issues and looked horrible all year, and Jennings is coming off a serious injury. Sigh...

I'm just hoping that we can come out of this offseason with a legit starting caliber SG.


That's my thinking too and why I like Lin. He's not a negative, and would leave space to throw at a SG.


I wouldn't get too attached to the idea of getting Lin, since both Dolan and maybe Melo would probably be against it

Re: Free Agent Power Rankings: Point Guards

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 9:18 pm
by NYKnicksTAPE
King of Canada wrote:
NYKnicksTAPE wrote:This list is pretty depressing. Signing Conley is pretty risky, I don't want Rondo on this team, we probably won't get Clarkson, we probably won't go after Lin, Bayless, Vasquez, and Cole aren't that good, Lawson has issues and looked horrible all year, and Jennings is coming off a serious injury. Sigh...

I'm just hoping that we can come out of this offseason with a legit starting caliber SG.


That's my thinking too and why I like Lin. He's not a negative, and would leave space to throw at a SG.

Do u see us going after Lin tho? I'd love to have him back, but I just don't see it. I'd love to have a Lin and Fournier offseason or something like that and then look to make a big splash in 2017

Re: Free Agent Power Rankings: Point Guards

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 9:19 pm
by moocow007
I don't think there is a perfect fit (let's be honest, perfect PG's don't become free agents too often) but that doesn't necessarily mean none of them should be pursued. Again, just because they aren't perfect don't mean they are useless...a big fallacy still for some folks it seems (see reactions from Carmelo Anthony haters).

Rondo for $10 million a year would be a steal IMO. $15 million obviously less so but I think would still be well worth considering. What is the value of that contract prorated to current day dollars? Right. For that money, you learn to deal with the warts. For the Knicks, if rebuilding is not an option, they simply CANNOT go through another season with Jose Calderon as the starting PG. It's simply idiotic to do so, and Calderon even said so recently.

Brandon Jennings is actually liked by the majority of fans of his last 2 teams. So before simply jumping on the old cliche wagon about who he is and isn't I would think that we may want to actually do a little research on how he's been in recent years and base decisions on that than what we remember his rep was much earlier in his career. For $3-7 million he'd also be a steal (again prorate next years salary to this years and 3-7 is what? Like 2-4 million? That's a steal).

These 2 guys, if we are to believe the estimated salary being posted, would seem to me to be the biggest bargains as both are actually real PG's (not pseudo PG's or SG's in PG's bodies) and can start.

Again...there's no such thing as perfect. And if there were, they wouldn't likely be signing with a team that just won only 32 games and 17 the season before. Does not mean you give up and do nothing nor that none of them would be marked improvements over what we have. Incremental improvements are ok...everything doesn't need to be a rocket to the moon jump.

Sans a rebuild, the Knicks need to improve and the improvement needs to be in line with Carmelo Anthony (otherwise, it's a waste and they should be trading his ass out of town). Both guys above are experienced proven players that can actually start at PG and would be an upgrade at PG over Calderon. For that price, again, they would be bargains. And bargains help build teams.

Re: Free Agent Power Rankings: Point Guards

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 9:19 pm
by King of Canada
GONYK wrote:
King of Canada wrote:
NYKnicksTAPE wrote:This list is pretty depressing. Signing Conley is pretty risky, I don't want Rondo on this team, we probably won't get Clarkson, we probably won't go after Lin, Bayless, Vasquez, and Cole aren't that good, Lawson has issues and looked horrible all year, and Jennings is coming off a serious injury. Sigh...

I'm just hoping that we can come out of this offseason with a legit starting caliber SG.


That's my thinking too and why I like Lin. He's not a negative, and would leave space to throw at a SG.


I wouldn't get too attached to the idea of getting Lin, since both Dolan and maybe Melo would probably be against it


I think the same thing, and I wouldn't say I'm attached. It is more the lack of negatives and the price tag than anything.

Re: Free Agent Power Rankings: Point Guards

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 9:22 pm
by NY2TheBay
I hope we sit this out. I like Lin but other then that the price tag on the top guys will mortgage the future while making us a treadmill team.

Give run to Grant and Wroten and allocate the resources to wing players (crabbe, fournier, bazemore)

Re: Free Agent Power Rankings: Point Guards

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 9:24 pm
by moocow007
NYKnicksTAPE wrote:
King of Canada wrote:
NYKnicksTAPE wrote:This list is pretty depressing. Signing Conley is pretty risky, I don't want Rondo on this team, we probably won't get Clarkson, we probably won't go after Lin, Bayless, Vasquez, and Cole aren't that good, Lawson has issues and looked horrible all year, and Jennings is coming off a serious injury. Sigh...

I'm just hoping that we can come out of this offseason with a legit starting caliber SG.


That's my thinking too and why I like Lin. He's not a negative, and would leave space to throw at a SG.

Do u see us going after Lin tho? I'd love to have him back, but I just don't see it. I'd love to have a Lin and Fournier offseason or something like that and then look to make a big splash in 2017


No. Not from Dolan. Not from Jackson. Both had changes to bring him back and both passed.

Re: Free Agent Power Rankings: Point Guards

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 9:24 pm
by islanders11040
You forget matthew dellavedova? i mean he isnt even in the others section.

Re: Free Agent Power Rankings: Point Guards

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 9:28 pm
by moocow007
islanders11040 wrote:You forget matthew dellavedova? i mean he isnt even in the others section.


Matthew who?

Re: Free Agent Power Rankings: Point Guards

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 9:28 pm
by King of Canada
NYKnicksTAPE wrote:
King of Canada wrote:
NYKnicksTAPE wrote:This list is pretty depressing. Signing Conley is pretty risky, I don't want Rondo on this team, we probably won't get Clarkson, we probably won't go after Lin, Bayless, Vasquez, and Cole aren't that good, Lawson has issues and looked horrible all year, and Jennings is coming off a serious injury. Sigh...

I'm just hoping that we can come out of this offseason with a legit starting caliber SG.


That's my thinking too and why I like Lin. He's not a negative, and would leave space to throw at a SG.

Do u see us going after Lin tho? I'd love to have him back, but I just don't see it. I'd love to have a Lin and Fournier offseason or something like that and then look to make a big splash in 2017



Probably not, which sucks, because he does a lot of the things we lacked last season. He was solid every time I watch the Hornets this season, drives to the hoop, plays D, and actually runs the floor.

Re: Free Agent Power Rankings: Point Guards

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 9:30 pm
by Scalabrine
King of Canada wrote:It's the sh*t list unfortunately

Edited to add - great work. I'm just referring to the not so great lineup of available pgs. I lean toward Lin. He's turned into a real pro, and would be a good guy to pair up with a great SG or either a high end pg next summer.


Thanks. The list pretty much ends after Clarkson at 3. Not so say I don't like a few of the other guys on the list, but they are more good backup point guards/spot starters in the league than legitimate starting point guards. We already have that though... I'd also be cool with Lin or Bayless.

Nic Batum (we'd obviously call him Knic Batum) is my number 1 off-season target that's not Kevin Durant and LeBron James. He averaged nearly 6 assists per game this season while playing the 2 and 3. He's a great defender, great attitude and high IQ and very unselfish. Not a phenomenal 3 point shooter but you still need to respect him out there. He plays winning basketball. I think he's the perfect fit on our team right now as our starting 2 and small ball 3. It would take pressure off Grant to be the main facilitator. We get him and Bayless or Lin and then try to get someone like Teletovic, Booker, Dudley, Ilyasova, Jerebko, Nicholson, Jones or resign DWill and I think our lineup is greatly improved from last year and solves a lot of our major holes.

Lopez/KP/O'Quinn
KP/Melo/DWill/Hernangomez
Melo/Batum/DWill
Batum/Bayless/Vuc
Grant/Calderon/Galloway

Not a contender yet, but a lower seeded playoffs team would be the expectation. An upgrade at point guard the next year, another pick, and the improvements of our young guys and we are in a really nice place with room for growth.

Re: Free Agent Power Rankings: Point Guards

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 9:32 pm
by knickabocker88
I prefer to see how Wroten and Grant perform

Re: Free Agent Power Rankings: Point Guards

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 9:35 pm
by DaGawd
knickabocker88 wrote:I prefer to see how Wroten and Grant perform

This.. Then hold out hope for Westbrook or Curry in the following summer..

Re: Free Agent Power Rankings: Point Guards

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 9:38 pm
by King of Canada
knickabocker88 wrote:I prefer to see how Wroten and Grant perform


I admit that I'm VERY curious to see what Wroten can do. Grant is going to have to have one hell of an offseason though to be a starting playoff pg.

Re: Free Agent Power Rankings: Point Guards

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 9:42 pm
by god shammgod
DaGawd wrote:
knickabocker88 wrote:I prefer to see how Wroten and Grant perform

This.. Then hold out hope for Westbrook or Curry in the following summer..


i'm holding out hope i can still have a pet dolphin

Re: Free Agent Power Rankings: Point Guards

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 9:43 pm
by DaGawd
god shammgod wrote:
DaGawd wrote:
knickabocker88 wrote:I prefer to see how Wroten and Grant perform

This.. Then hold out hope for Westbrook or Curry in the following summer..


i'm holding out hope i can still have a pet dolphin

Soon bro...soon