Official MMA discussion thread: UFC 231 Holloway vs Ortega finally!

[j4remi]

Israel Adesanya's debut was as good as expected. That dude is gonna be a problem! He's gotta work on a few things with the clinch but his striking is spectacular.

Tuivasa showed out...time to put him up against a legit threat.

Pedro and Mathews got hometown gimmes, but handled them well.

Blaydes' wrestling and athleticism will keep him in every fight. Unbelievable chin on the guy. But Ngannou sparked him and Hunt sparked him; anybody that can keep a fight standing probably puts him in trouble. With his size and strength, there might not be anyone to stop his takedowns though.

Romero is an absolute freak and Luke just has the same damned holes. I gotta go rewatch to confirm, but I'm 90% sure that was the exact same combination that Bisping used from the opposite side. Jab, Jab, Overhand started the Bisping KO and was the Romero KO. Rockhold doesn't tuck his damned chin. Romero is just filthy and this was a fight where you could see the effort to conserve energy. He could probably go at that pace for 5 rounds. The only thing is a healthy Whitaker won't let him stay at the pace because Whitaker throws a ton of volume.

[waya]

Romero is an absolute freak and Luke just has the same damned holes. I gotta go rewatch to confirm, but I'm 90% sure that was the exact same combination that Bisping used from the opposite side. Jab, Jab, Overhand started the Bisping KO and was the Romero KO. Rockhold doesn't tuck his damned chin. Romero is just filthy and this was a fight where you could see the effort to conserve energy. He could probably go at that pace for 5 rounds. The only thing is a healthy Whitaker won't let him stay at the pace because Whitaker throws a ton of volume.

I'm wondering if Romero will try to fight more like this in his rematch against Whittaker. Obviously, whittaker's boxing is very good but unless I'm remembering wrong, Romero blew his load going for takedowns and G&P the first two rounds of their fight. By the end of the fight Whittaker was stuffing his takedowns and piecing him up. Might benefit Romero to forgo the wrestling all together unless he can maintain it for at least 3 rounds. Idk, as good as Whittaker is standing up, I don't know if there's anybody that can withstand Yoel's explosions if they're caught

And I'm still kind of baffled that, of all places to go train, Luke went to Hooft's gym. I get that he's supposed to be some stand up wizard but his track record of fighters doesn't seem that amazing to me. Half of his fighters get wrestle-f*cked and Hooft's best advice is always "don't give up! Don't give up!" Smh

Luke's proven to be chinny. ffor sure don't have the guy stay in the pocket jabbing Romero the entire fight.. His best weapons are literally everything other than his boxing, and he spent this entire fight trying to box.

[HarthorneWingo]

Israel Adesanya's debut was as good as expected. That dude is gonna be a problem! He's gotta work on a few things with the clinch but his striking is spectacular.

Tuivasa showed out...time to put him up against a legit threat.

Pedro and Mathews got hometown gimmes, but handled them well.

Blaydes' wrestling and athleticism will keep him in every fight. Unbelievable chin on the guy. But Ngannou sparked him and Hunt sparked him; anybody that can keep a fight standing probably puts him in trouble. With his size and strength, there might not be anyone to stop his takedowns though.

Romero is an absolute freak and Luke just has the same damned holes. I gotta go rewatch to confirm, but I'm 90% sure that was the exact same combination that Bisping used from the opposite side. Jab, Jab, Overhand started the Bisping KO and was the Romero KO. Rockhold doesn't tuck his damned chin. Romero is just filthy and this was a fight where you could see the effort to conserve energy. He could probably go at that pace for 5 rounds. The only thing is a healthy Whitaker won't let him stay at the pace because Whitaker throws a ton of volume.

Any thoughts on Alexander Volkanovsky?

Adesanya looks great. Looking forward to seeing him up against better competition.

[j4remi]

Any thoughts on Alexander Volkanovsky?

Adesanya looks great. Looking forward to seeing him up against better competition.

Alexander the Great should have gotten better competition from the time he beat Hirota. Right now, it's tough to see much of his game because his wrestling has been dominant. I'd like to see them throw him in there with someone that's going to stuff the takedowns so we can see what he looks like without his biggest weapon. If he went top fifteen, I'd definitely put him in there with Mirsad Bektic.

[j4remi]

I'm wondering if Romero will try to fight more like this in his rematch against Whittaker. Obviously, whittaker's boxing is very good but unless I'm remembering wrong, Romero blew his load going for takedowns and G&P the first two rounds of their fight. By the end of the fight Whittaker was stuffing his takedowns and piecing him up. Might benefit Romero to forgo the wrestling all together unless he can maintain it for at least 3 rounds. Idk, as good as Whittaker is standing up, I don't know if there's anybody that can withstand Yoel's explosions if they're caught

And I'm still kind of baffled that, of all places to go train, Luke went to Hooft's gym. I get that he's supposed to be some stand up wizard but his track record of fighters doesn't seem that amazing to me. Half of his fighters get wrestle-f*cked and Hooft's best advice is always "don't give up! Don't give up!" Smh

Luke's proven to be chinny. ffor sure don't have the guy stay in the pocket jabbing Romero the entire fight.. His best weapons are literally everything other than his boxing, and he spent this entire fight trying to box.

I generally like Hooft to improve guys but his cornering and gameplanning is definitely "meh". Romero likes sitting outside and exploding in, so Rockhold could have scored a gang of points on kicks but moved inside range instead (maybe the checked leg kicks early did more damage? I can't explain it). I did think Rockhold's offensive boxing looked a bit improved but not nearly enough to stay in the pocket on a Romero. His mental game is always questionable too...Maybe a Greg Jackson or Firas Zahabi could take advantage of all the dude's advantages because he always has something that can give him an edge; it doesn't matter what opponent.

With Romero/Whitaker, I definitely agree that I could see Romero just keeping things on the feet at least early and then resorting to wrestling if his corner feels he's losing. Even better if they clock him for takedown attempts inside of the last 30 seconds, keep rounds close and then finish with a momentum stealer. That said, the difference in Luke and Whitaker was that the Aussie kept breaking Romero's rhythm with kicks to put him off balance. Rockhold was throwing some leg kicks and body kicks but Whitaker threw a gang of push kicks, side kicks and generally just the sort of kicks that force your man off center. Even in this Rockhold fight, Romero's angles weren't anything special. He explodes forward and drops backward for most of his offense. You push him off his line and he tends to reset to find his cadence again. That's not me picking Whitaker, but I do think it throws a monkey wrench in evaluating how last night's Romero would do. He looked elusive and ready for 25 minutes, but Luke also let him get comfortable.

[waya]

I'm wondering if Romero will try to fight more like this in his rematch against Whittaker. Obviously, whittaker's boxing is very good but unless I'm remembering wrong, Romero blew his load going for takedowns and G&P the first two rounds of their fight. By the end of the fight Whittaker was stuffing his takedowns and piecing him up. Might benefit Romero to forgo the wrestling all together unless he can maintain it for at least 3 rounds. Idk, as good as Whittaker is standing up, I don't know if there's anybody that can withstand Yoel's explosions if they're caught

And I'm still kind of baffled that, of all places to go train, Luke went to Hooft's gym. I get that he's supposed to be some stand up wizard but his track record of fighters doesn't seem that amazing to me. Half of his fighters get wrestle-f*cked and Hooft's best advice is always "don't give up! Don't give up!" Smh

Luke's proven to be chinny. ffor sure don't have the guy stay in the pocket jabbing Romero the entire fight.. His best weapons are literally everything other than his boxing, and he spent this entire fight trying to box.

I generally like Hooft to improve guys but his cornering and gameplanning is definitely "meh". Romero likes sitting outside and exploding in, so Rockhold could have scored a gang of points on kicks but moved inside range instead (maybe the checked leg kicks early did more damage? I can't explain it). I did think Rockhold's offensive boxing looked a bit improved but not nearly enough to stay in the pocket on a Romero. His mental game is always questionable too...Maybe a Greg Jackson or Firas Zahabi could take advantage of all the dude's advantages because he always has something that can give him an edge; it doesn't matter what opponent.

With Romero/Whitaker, I definitely agree that I could see Romero just keeping things on the feet at least early and then resorting to wrestling if his corner feels he's losing. Even better if they clock him for takedown attempts inside of the last 30 seconds, keep rounds close and then finish with a momentum stealer. That said, the difference in Luke and Whitaker was that the Aussie kept breaking Romero's rhythm with kicks to put him off balance. Rockhold was throwing some leg kicks and body kicks but Whitaker threw a gang of push kicks, side kicks and generally just the sort of kicks that force your man off center. Even in this Rockhold fight, Romero's angles weren't anything special. He explodes forward and drops backward for most of his offense. You push him off his line and he tends to reset to find his cadence again. That's not me picking Whitaker, but I do think it throws a monkey wrench in evaluating how last night's Romero would do. He looked elusive and ready for 25 minutes, but Luke also let him get comfortable.

Assuming the fight somehow went to the ground and Luke scrambled on top of Yoel or something (I doubt Luke's offensve grappling would have been good enough to take Yoel down), you think he would have been able to keep Yoel there? He's had some of the most dominant top control during his UFC tenure but obviously Yoel's a different kind of beast. Kind of wish we got to see them take it to the mat at some point, I wouldve liked to know how the two guys stack up with one another there. Still some unanswered questions in this matchup for me.

I also wish Luke had more dominant grappling (at least in terms of takedowns) like the rest of his AKA teammates. His BJJ is fantastic and he can brutalize guys on the ground, but he doesn't have too many ways to get his opponent there. DC can throw guys around with a high-crotch or suplex, Khabib can trip guys along the fence or do a judo sweep or some sh*t, etc. Luke is usually more opportunistic with his grappling (rocking Bisping and then jumping for the guillotine, reversing Boestch's takedown, taking Weidman's back after his poor wheel kick) although he was able to take down Lyoto and Branch when he wanted. It's probably very simplistic bro-logic on my part, but I would legitimately just be looking to improve my wrestling/takedown attempts. Obviously Khabib, DC, Cain etc are dudes who have been wrestling their whole lives but it just seems counterintuituve for a dude like Luke, who is that good on the ground, to not be able to take dudes to the ground at will.

[Clyde_Style]

Did anyone watch Ortega vs. Swanson?

Ortega is amazing. I don't see anyone beating him. He'll beat Halloway or Aldo or any of those guys.

He's solid on his feet, but pounces on any choke opportunities. He is the best choke-out artist I've ever seen.

[j4remi]

Did anyone watch Ortega vs. Swanson?

Ortega is amazing. I don't see anyone beating him. He'll beat Halloway or Aldo or any of those guys.

He's solid on his feet, but pounces on any choke opportunities. He is the best choke-out artist I've ever seen.

Absolutely a special prospect. His striking is still a bit behind his grappling but catching up. I think Holloway could be tough because of the elusive style he employs. Holloway can work an outside-in fighting game where he picks at you and punishes you for closing distance. Basically, his combination of stance switches, footwork, length and versatility gives him the ability to dictate a huge portion of the engagement against pretty much anyone. The thing about Ortega is that when he gets his paws on you...hard to see anybody escaping. Frankie Edgar will be the true test though. Edgar is a vet's vet, amazing gameplanner and a motion fighter who mixes takedowns in. The dude knows how to get his points and stay out of threatening situations. If Frankie can mitigate Ortega's grappling then it'll show the framework for how it's done...but I don't think Frankie pulls it off. I got Ortega and Holloway as the 1/2 of the division until Max moves up.

[j4remi]

Sidenote: Jon Jones NSAC hearing was yesterday and boy was that a debacle. The doctor they brought for expertise had studied Turinabol, the substance he popped for, for 4 hours total before coming to conclusions and apparently used bodybuilding links for info. Then Jones got busted not knowing anything about the USADA process. Turns out the required online education tests for every fighter had been taken by his manager. He disclosed 7 supplements on forms to USADA but was testing 17 supplements. We also revisited the Rhino pills that he allegedly failed a prior drug test for. If anything, it looks like 4 years is more likely now than ever. He's suspended a minimum of one more year but USADA will have a ruling in the future.

[Clyde_Style]

Did anyone watch Ortega vs. Swanson?

Ortega is amazing. I don't see anyone beating him. He'll beat Halloway or Aldo or any of those guys.

He's solid on his feet, but pounces on any choke opportunities. He is the best choke-out artist I've ever seen.

Absolutely a special prospect. His striking is still a bit behind his grappling but catching up. I think Holloway could be tough because of the elusive style he employs. Holloway can work an outside-in fighting game where he picks at you and punishes you for closing distance. Basically, his combination of stance switches, footwork, length and versatility gives him the ability to dictate a huge portion of the engagement against pretty much anyone. The thing about Ortega is that when he gets his paws on you...hard to see anybody escaping. Frankie Edgar will be the true test though. Edgar is a vet's vet, amazing gameplanner and a motion fighter who mixes takedowns in. The dude knows how to get his points and stay out of threatening situations. If Frankie can mitigate Ortega's grappling then it'll show the framework for how it's done...but I don't think Frankie pulls it off. I got Ortega and Holloway as the 1/2 of the division until Max moves up.

They will be great fights.

[HarthorneWingo]

Bones took a hit before the CSAC. Had his license revoked (but only till this August because the revocation is retroactive) and has to pay a fine ($250,000?).

USADA still has to rule.

[Kinglee]

Thoughts on tonight fights?

[matchman]

Zingano has not shaken off the rust.

I am surprised Arlovski changing his strategy and seems to be quite efdective against Giant.

[bringbackhoffa]

Dern got lucky with that 3 round takedown thought she was losing the fight until then.

Don't see anything special from her, I know she's only 6 fights in but she was going up against vsoneone who came into the fight with a messed up rib and barely squeezed one out.



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[HEZI]

I don't know where Wilder got that strength and power from to be able to throw those type of haymakers in the 10th round

Great fight

[HarthorneWingo]

Dern got lucky with that 3 round takedown thought she was losing the fight until then.

Don't see anything special from her, I know she's only 6 fights in but she was going up against vsoneone who came into the fight with a messed up rib and barely squeezed one out.

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Agreed. She also didn't look to be in the best of shape.

[HarthorneWingo]

Wow. Edgar looks finished. He had nothing. Ortega lifted him off the canvas with that uppercut.

[matchman]

Wow Edgar is beaten so comfortably, I cannot belive it. Holloway vs Ortega should be a great one if happened.

Will there be an upset to Cyborg too?

[matchman]

Sean is so lucky that his Lao opponent does not take advantage of his broken foot, or the result could be opposite. However Sean is definitely a star in the making, it is still tough to survive that.

[matchman]

Cyborg call for Amanda Nunes, but if I am Amanda I wont answer the call.