Official MMA discussion thread: UFC 231 Holloway vs Ortega finally!

[j4remi]

Is Valentina that much naturally bigger than Montana because she could be fighting at a higher weight class?

And does anyone know the history of the UFC stripping belt holders that don't make weight? Or is it truly an arbitrary decision?

I heard a couple of heads say that Nico actually has a slight size advantage frame wise but the only face-offs I've seen were the ones with Montano in loose fitting clothes so it was hard to really tell. Montano had more pop on her striking than anyone in the TUF house imo and she was able to wrestle with most, so I wasn't too surprised to hear that Nico's frame compares with the 135'er moreso than the 115'ers.

I can't recall the last time a champion missed weight going into a title belt tbh. Max never had the cause for his issues confirmed and considering all of the underlying circumstances it makes sense that the UFC would cut him a break regardless. Other than that though, I can only think of challengers like Romero, Khabib and back in the day Lutter who have missed weight. Romero talked about a move up but quickly signed a fight at 185 with Borrachinha after. Khabib didn't get an immediate reschedule with Tony Ferguson but he's the champ now, so he didn't have to move weights or suffer anything too heavy either. Lutter was so long ago that I don't even remember, but I know he got cut pretty quickly and had alleged work ethic issues from then on.

Nico's had a legitimate medical issues and then some real confusion over whether she was ready to come back or not all the way up until she signed. Idk what the circumstances were on this one, so I'm trying not to judge harshly yet. She didn't even sit on the shelf a year before getting stripped which feels premature, but this division was practically made for Valentina and JJ to finally meet in a superfight. JJ lost, Valentina got a cakewalk to the title shot and now we're here. Some of the other women are acting like they'd be upset if JJ gets the shot and I get their frustration, but none of them have looked like they belong in the same building as Shevchenko. Joanna makes it interesting (and it's targeted for MSG too).

[HarthorneWingo]

sure...weight cut...

it wasnt because she was going to be mauled and end up at the hospital anyways.

no choice but to strip Nico of the belt, and push Valentina vs Joanna as the MSG main even for the 125lb belt.

I hear you on that but doesn't the UFC have to independently verify these weight cut-related medical in the 11th hour of a fight?

They did. Dana white confirmed Nico wasn't even close to making weight.

Imo Nico had no intention on fighting and came in extra heavy making the weight cut impossible

Nico will attribute the failed weight cut to her recovering from her injury but we all know she is being smart ducking Valentina, who would likely take her out of active competition for a year or two with the beating she would face. This way Nico can come back early next yr against a lessor opponent and wait for Valentina to move back up once her sister is a contender at 125

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[Clyde_Style]

Is Valentina that much naturally bigger than Montana because she could be fighting at a higher weight class?

And does anyone know the history of the UFC stripping belt holders that don't make weight? Or is it truly an arbitrary decision?

I heard a couple of heads say that Nico actually has a slight size advantage frame wise but the only face-offs I've seen were the ones with Montano in loose fitting clothes so it was hard to really tell. Montano had more pop on her striking than anyone in the TUF house imo and she was able to wrestle with most, so I wasn't too surprised to hear that Nico's frame compares with the 135'er moreso than the 115'ers.

I can't recall the last time a champion missed weight going into a title belt tbh. Max never had the cause for his issues confirmed and considering all of the underlying circumstances it makes sense that the UFC would cut him a break regardless. Other than that though, I can only think of challengers like Romero, Khabib and back in the day Lutter who have missed weight. Romero talked about a move up but quickly signed a fight at 185 with Borrachinha after. Khabib didn't get an immediate reschedule with Tony Ferguson but he's the champ now, so he didn't have to move weights or suffer anything too heavy either. Lutter was so long ago that I don't even remember, but I know he got cut pretty quickly and had alleged work ethic issues from then on.

Nico's had a legitimate medical issues and then some real confusion over whether she was ready to come back or not all the way up until she signed. Idk what the circumstances were on this one, so I'm trying not to judge harshly yet. She didn't even sit on the shelf a year before getting stripped which feels premature, but this division was practically made for Valentina and JJ to finally meet in a superfight. JJ lost, Valentina got a cakewalk to the title shot and now we're here. Some of the other women are acting like they'd be upset if JJ gets the shot and I get their frustration, but none of them have looked like they belong in the same building as Shevchenko. Joanna makes it interesting (and it's targeted for MSG too).

It's too bad really. I was rooting for her to do well from seeing her on TUF and didn't know she was having health issues. As long as she wasn't being a complete flake, I hope she gets well and back into the mix because I was curious to see what she could do after TUF.

[HarthorneWingo]

Nice comeback win from Stewart.

And The Macho Man goes down.

My Alja-Main Man! From Uniondale.

Tatiana Suarez is a beast and she's got the sharpest elbows in UFC She's the female Khabib.

[bringbackhoffa]

Suarez WOW, holy ****

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[bringbackhoffa]

Nice comeback win from Stewart.

And The Macho Man goes down.

My Alja-Main Man! From Uniondale.

Tatiana Suarez is a beast and she's got the sharpest elbows in UFC She's the female Khabib.

That is how I see khabib Connor playing out

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[bringbackhoffa]

Not a twood fan, but good for him. I guess Colby will continue to duck him so Usman will be next or maybe Nick Diaz....


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[HarthorneWingo]

Oh dayum! This one makes me feel good.

Read on Twitter

[islanders11040]

so many good fights tonight.

[HarthorneWingo]

Andrade vs. Suarez to see who fights Rose?

Watch on YouTube

[bringbackhoffa]

Andrade vs. Suarez to see who fights Rose?

Watch on YouTube

I think Andrade deserves the shot faced tougher challengers. Like they said on the broadcast let's throw JJ and Suarez if she doesn't move up to 125.

Rose shouldn't be sitting out too much longer

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[j4remi]

So UFC 228 was fire, lots of finishes, no controversies and a handful of fighters made big boosts for their stocks.

- Woodley might actually get his deserved respect now. I really didn't picture him catching Till's timing so fast, especially because Till was actually trying to be economical. But man...Thompson and Till are both great at fighting safe and Woodley put both on their backs. It's hard to see Colby or Usman beating Woodley (I don't see them beating Wonderboy tbh). I had Woodley stopping Till in three, so close enough.

- Andrade earned a title shot after Gadelha. Beating Karolina so emphatically just locks it in. I love that Karolina is so game but this is twice that ring craft hurts her. NOBODY should be planting and trading with Andrade who has a granite chin and KO power; JJ moved ALL fight. Karolina would plant and try to exchange which got her caught. Also, this one's a another example of fighters needing to get their head off that center line when they plant and throw. That got Colby clocked and Karolina as well. Andrade leans off, Karolina leans forward...down goes Karolina.

- Suarez was the next one to show out. Esparza has beaten most women and been competitive with everyone except JJ...until now. Put the grappling pedigree with the size and it's gonna difficult picturing women that can avoid Suarez taking things to the ground and dominating. Gadelha, Andrade, JJ and Rose are the four I'd be curious to watch. Suarez vs JJ next would make a lot of sense and set up a next contender while Rose and Andrade figure out who's top dog.

- Zabit was as advertised on the ground...stand up was a bit disappointing, but since he's so good getting things down and since he's developing there it's hard to be mad. Now calling out Mendes or Aldo; I love the guts but I'd like him to get at least one more match-up before chasing the guys that are elite.

- Sterling had the same submission for a win too. Idk what Stamman was thinking with his gameplan but it backfired and Sterling has his mojo back. Rivera's Dodson win was "meh" to me, that happens with Dodson to be fair but either way I'd be curious about those two locking up next.

- AlHassan just keeps rapid KO'ing dudes...it's crazy. Niko is no joke, so that's a GREAT win.
- My dog Frank Camacho has to start using some strategy as he marched onto a head kick. But put him against other brawlers and it's a show.
- Diego Sanchez won and I'm not sure how I feel about it. Glad to see him win, kinda hoping he retires soon to avoid more head trauma.
- Jim Miller's win was nice to see as well. Dude has been a steady problem for a long time and I appreciate his career.

[NoStatsGuy]

woooow this event got my eyes big every 10 minutes.. just wow.

twood is a great champ! widely underappeciated and hated for all the wrong reasons. damn guys, did you see dana? lmfao. hes so pissed right now. the gorilla got mauled and then the finish was absoloutely beautiful

i knida knew montano vs valentina wasnt happening, nicco got crowned champion way too early shes not ready for prime time. Valentina is a monster and i dont wanna see joanna in 125 vs valentina. JJ cant even finish the 115ers and she always looks small even for 115. i think its the wrong move for her.
i understand that Rose - JJ 3 wouldnt make much sense. but still i dont see joana winning vs valentina at all. also given the fact joana already lost 3 times in Muay Thai to valentina.


respect for stepping up to zabit goes to davis, thats for sure. fight went as expected, the slick submission was nice to see because its so rare usually.

and yea female khabib was impressive as hell, like her last fight.. really. shes looking to put her stamp on the division. looking forward to follow her career, shes a true inspiration to me.

cant wait for october 6th

[Clyde_Style]

Other fights deserving special mention:

Steward vs. Byrd was another one. Byrd was fighting the perfect fight, then boink! Steward clocked him. One of those fights that shock you because of the instant change of momentum.

Aldana vs. Pudilova was fight of the night IMO. That was a war. Aldana was the correct winner. She's the better fighter, but Pudlilova is made of nails.

That was a great card

[j4remi]

i knida knew montano vs valentina wasnt happening, nicco got crowned champion way too early shes not ready for prime time. Valentina is a monster and i dont wanna see joanna in 125 vs valentina. JJ cant even finish the 115ers and she always looks small even for 115. i think its the wrong move for her.
i understand that Rose - JJ 3 wouldnt make much sense. but still i dont see joana winning vs valentina at all. also given the fact joana already lost 3 times in Muay Thai to valentina.


respect for stepping up to zabit goes to davis, thats for sure. fight went as expected, the slick submission was nice to see because its so rare usually.

On JJ, I think it's a question of if the added weight will mean more power. We've seen added KO power in some recent move-ups from Cowboy and Gastelum to lesser knowns like Krause. If JJ's volume striking adds finishing power omg. Also, while Valentina seems like a big ask for Joanna; I'd argue that she's the favorite in a fight with everyone else in the division.

One more fact about Davis who I feel a bit bad for piling on even if it was fair. Turns out he accepted the fight right after finding out he has a bulging disc and he kept it on the low until the fight happened. Not only did he take the shot, but he hid an injury to get the opportunity. Crazy move but hella respect for the heart.

Other fights deserving special mention:

Steward vs. Byrd was another one. Byrd was fighting the perfect fight, then boink! Steward clocked him. One of those fights that shock you because of the instant change of momentum.

Aldana vs. Pudilova was fight of the night IMO. That was a war. Aldana was the correct winner. She's the better fighter, but Pudlilova is made of nails.

That was a great card

I'm upset with Byrd tbh. He looked great standing and all but he's a ground specialist who decided to show his stand up vs a one-punch KO guy. Steward's heart was insane and Byrd showed a lot to like, so I can't be too mad but I'm a bit frustrated because I think Byrd could have won that damned fight.

Aldana vs Pudilova was GREAT! I'm happy they got bonus checks, much deserved for Fight of the Night. Great call on those two bouts.

[HarthorneWingo]

Has Dana called Woodley to congratulate him yet? lol

[bringbackhoffa]

Dana bolted out of the arena as soon as Woodley won, he was pissed. He needed another Cash cow and that would of been Till. Likely had a stadium show lined up for him in the U.K. in addition he knows both Robert whittiker and Kevin gasteulum are not draws at middleweight, so he likely wanted till to get an instant shot at the middleweight belt, and then having Colby who is controversial become the undisputed champ at WW after Till moved up and is stripped. That's why the Colby be stripped conversation kinda died down leading up to the fight.

Thoigh on paper it didn't look like it, it was a great night of fights but if I has to guess ppv buys are probably around 200kish. Many ppl probably saving up for Conor khabib and msg events coming up.
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[NoStatsGuy]

Has Dana called Woodley to congratulate him yet? lol

lol still pissed, the crowd cheered for twood and he dominated danas "next golden child".

as soon as twood contract runs out, i dont think he gets a new one. dana really hates him


//

honestly, think about it the promotion you are one of the most sccomplished champions in, ahtes you wants you out **** on you and always roots for the contenders. id immediatly sign with bellator

[Clyde_Style]

Dana should kiss and make up with Woodley, because he could hold the title for a while. Not that he has to, but it looks foolish since Ty just won in style and the crowd will want to see him fight next time.

[j4remi]

Dana White is seriously clueless if he doesn't realize that he's sitting on a superfight with Woodley and the winner of Whitaker/Gastelum. It clears the way for Colby vs Usman to decide a true contender, because the title stripping and Till match have sapped most of Covington's momentum. Meanwhile; Whitaker has the best skillset to mimic Rory MacDonald's gameplan (the last to beat Woodley) in an effective manner and Gastelum is the fighter that's come closest to beating Woodley (lost a close split decision). They're also both guys who moved up from 170 while Woodley was working his way to the belt too.

The only thing that could hurt that would be Gastelum beating Whitaker and Weidman beating Rockhold (I'm thinking the opposite for both fights but have to go back and watch some recent fights to really pick). Weidman has a win over Gastelum so that'd make it hard to deny him next. Otherwise; Woodley, the champion with the longest active title defense streak, deserves an option to move up (he talked about it already on Countdown).

UFC wants superfights; Woodley doesn't have compelling opposition left in his division; 185's top ranked fighters are all championship retreads...and Dana just needs to not be petty to make everyone happy.