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Official MMA discussion thread: UFC 231 Holloway vs Ortega finally!

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Re: Official MMA discussion thread (UFC 217 in MSG pg 37) 

Post#841 » by j4remi » Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:06 pm

newyorker4ever wrote:Cyborg is gonna do what she always does. She's gonna go straight at Holly as soon as the bell rings and get her up against the fence and throw absolute bombs. Holly will need to get punches, kicks and knees in when Cyborg is coming at her. She was able to keep her space when she fought and beat Rousey but against Cyborg i can't see her being able to keep that space. If Cyborg gets her down then it's all over with Cyborg's ground and pound and submissions. She absolutely has to keep space or there's no way for her to win this fight. I'm rooting hard for ya Holly and hoping you can land that one big punch or kick or knee or elbow or something and hoping if you knock her out you take her pants down and show the world that Cyborg has a penis.


The thing about Holly is that she's at her best against plodders. Shevchenko, GDR and even Correia all made Holm be the aggressor and she's a mixed bag in that role mainly because she has a habit of throwing her flurries head on...no angle, just straight forward with a flurry of punches that don't have stopping power. When fighters have come at her though, she makes them chase and picks them off with openings. Cyborg will go straight at Holly and Holly will need lateral movement all night, but I think early on that movement will be crisp and later on Cyborg won't have the energy to trap Holly. That said, the clinch is gonna be big because I think that's how Cyborg might be able to trap Holly along the cage. It's funny though, I think the little fake left and slip right that Holly does when her heels tap the cage is the sort of motion that will force Cyborg to settle for one strike at a time damage.

newyorker4ever wrote:
I think anyone who wasn't a Ortega fan before the C.Swanson fight became a fan of his after it. Not only for his fight game but for his story and how he wanted the performance bonus to spend on helping the kids. Kid is young and has a great career ahead of him. He won't beat Hollaway on the feet but if that kid gets your back it's all over and if he gets on top of you then you better have a great Jiu Jitsu game cause that kid can submit you from anywhere on the ground.

I became a big fan of Yair since i saw his first fight cause he's so unpredictable on his feet and throws crazy kicks and punches that you never see coming but his last couple of fights haven't been great for him against higher level fighters. He's so young though and think he's gonna keep putting the work in to get better and will fight for the belt.


Clyde_Style wrote:
I'd say my two active favorites are Ortega and El Cucuy, both of whom have some magic in their game and you never quite know what to expect.


I love Ortega's whole mentality. I went full stan mode when he pulled the comeback against Guida. Dude had like three straight comeback wins in the third round before the Cub fight. He's also handled adversity better than his peers. He's developing enough striking to last until he can get a grip on a guy and I was actually pretty impressed with how well he competed with Cub standing. It's enough that he can get a hold of most guys, Max is just a hard one to grab. So Ortega needs some more striking tests before I fully jump on the wagon but I think he's an eventual champion.

I could definitely see an Ortega fan being big on Ferguson. Dude is the most unpredictable fighter in the game and Ortega has that same blink of an eye transition ability. I think their polar opposite would be a Ryan Hall who is super predictable but has such mastery of his handful of tricks that he's looked virtually untouchable in his bouts...but boring because he's too safe. Hall will use hook kicks and izanari rolls but opponents are so unwilling to go to the ground with him that it becomes a lot of standing in space and throwing light kicks. Ferguson and Ortega force the issue because they're a lot more confident in their striking to force the issue. But I'd keep an eye on Hall, if he ever gets that striking beyond the safety precautions, he'll be able to set traps striking too.

Yair definitely has the gift of age. He kinda reminds me of young Max, because Max lost a couple of times by doing reckless ish. When Rodriguez figures out to stick with the fundmentals and use his explosions when his opponent is lulled, that'll be a turning point. He obviously has to work on his wrestling too. I think Yair and Diakese are really similar styles and both guys have huge upside but a lot to develop to reach it.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread (UFC 217 in MSG pg 37) 

Post#842 » by Clyde_Style » Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:16 pm

j4remi wrote:The thing about Holly is that she's at her best against plodders. Shevchenko, GDR and even Correia all made Holm be the aggressor and she's a mixed bag in that role mainly because she has a habit of throwing her flurries head on...no angle, just straight forward with a flurry of punches that don't have stopping power. When fighters have come at her though, she makes them chase and picks them off with openings. Cyborg will go straight at Holly and Holly will need lateral movement all night, but I think early on that movement will be crisp and later on Cyborg won't have the energy to trap Holly. That said, the clinch is gonna be big because I think that's how Cyborg might be able to trap Holly along the cage. It's funny though, I think the little fake left and slip right that Holly does when her heels tap the cage is the sort of motion that will force Cyborg to settle for one strike at a time damage.


Exactly. Holly's instincts are best served when someone comes directly at her and she has to lateralize her attack. Good point. That could be how she stuns Cyborg with the better angle to clip her on the temple or chin.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread (UFC 217 in MSG pg 37) 

Post#843 » by HarthorneWingo » Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:02 pm

j4remi wrote:
matchman wrote:
I haven't seen Khabib live on tv, so hopefully I get a chance finally this time.


I'm a huge grappling stan. I overrate submission artists and geek out when I see a technique that I'll have to ask my fighting friends about. But I've gotta say...Khabib isn't like most grapplers. The Sambo stuff means he's way more aggressive. He's not just a single leg or double leg guy; there are trips and throws. He doesn't just go for subs, he ground and pounds like a throwback. DC always points it out, dude will trap an opponents hand and destroy them with the leverage from wrist control. Definitely check the Johnson fight to see him literally talking to a guy while he works him over and ignoring his coaches on the stool so he can tell Dana White "I got next on the title." Also if you have fight pass, RDA vs Khabib is the biggest eye opener to me. He smothered RDA and shut him down, couldn't finish but RDA is a MONSTER. He still dominated the fight.

Clyde_Style wrote:
Does Holly have a chance IYO?


I picked her for the win. I think Holly's footwork and toughness will help her last until Cyborg runs out of steam and I've got Holly taking the championship rounds, which would leave her to win one of the first three to take it down. Cyborg's quality of competition doesn't match Holly's and stylistically I think that Holly has the type of skillset to beat Cyborg (it's either a footwork guru or a grinding wrestler imo). That said, my confidence will rise or fall with how Cyborg weighs in this morning. If she doesn't have any weight drain issues then her cardio might improve compared to what we've seen. All my picks and discussion on how I came to them (plus a second opinion), we do a podcast as a companion to the articles. My first prediction already came through from this one too, Hooker vs Diakese got moved to the PPV card. That could be a really great fight.

https://soundcloud.com/fteswl/ufc-219-preview-podcast


RDA v. Khabib is also on YouTube.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread (UFC 217 in MSG pg 37) 

Post#844 » by HarthorneWingo » Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:15 pm

Is this a "retirement" fight for Condit or is he back in the game?
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread (UFC 217 in MSG pg 37) 

Post#845 » by newyorker4ever » Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:29 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:Is this a "retirement" fight for Condit or is he back in the game?



He never really retired though. I know some thought he did when he was interviewed after the Lawler fight but don't think he ever did. He's one of my favorite fighters to watch ever. Guy is all heart.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread (UFC 217 in MSG pg 37) 

Post#846 » by Clyde_Style » Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:33 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:Is this a "retirement" fight for Condit or is he back in the game?


It's his "Evil Dead" fight.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread (UFC 217 in MSG pg 37) 

Post#847 » by j4remi » Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:49 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:Is this a "retirement" fight for Condit or is he back in the game?


He says the fire is back, but his reactions to losses have me wondering if he'd hang 'em up on a loss. I hope not though. We're gonna need a Condit/Cerrone bout before all is said and done.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread (UFC 217 in MSG pg 37) 

Post#848 » by Mauro Pedrosa » Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:08 am

What's up fellas? Long time no see. Decent event tonight
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread (UFC 217 in MSG pg 37) 

Post#849 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:39 am

Mauro Pedrosa wrote:What's up fellas? Long time no see. Decent event tonight


Yo. Who you got?

Card is so-so imo. I'm just interested in the Holm, Khabib, and Condit fights.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread (UFC 217 in MSG pg 37) 

Post#850 » by Jose7 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:10 am

Esparza got that.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread (UFC 217 in MSG pg 37) 

Post#851 » by HEZI » Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:33 am

These fights are taking too long
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread (UFC 217 in MSG pg 37) 

Post#852 » by matchman » Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:39 am

Hooker hooks up Diakese
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread (UFC 217 in MSG pg 37) 

Post#853 » by matchman » Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:43 am

Ok final two fights now.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread (UFC 217 in MSG pg 37) 

Post#854 » by Mauro Pedrosa » Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:48 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
Mauro Pedrosa wrote:What's up fellas? Long time no see. Decent event tonight


Yo. Who you got?

Card is so-so imo. I'm just interested in the Holm, Khabib, and Condit fights.

I wanted to see Diakiese win but his cardio and fight IQ weren't there.

I got the favorites Khabib and Cyborg, but would like to see some upsets
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread (UFC 217 in MSG pg 37) 

Post#855 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:49 am

matchman wrote:Ok final two fights now.


Condit win?
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread (UFC 217 in MSG pg 37) 

Post#856 » by Mauro Pedrosa » Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:58 am

Khabib is a **** machine
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread (UFC 217 in MSG pg 37) 

Post#857 » by Mauro Pedrosa » Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:58 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
matchman wrote:Ok final two fights now.


Condit win?

Lost a unanimous decision. Terrible fight
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread (UFC 217 in MSG pg 37) 

Post#858 » by matchman » Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:59 am

Khabib is like a psycho or something, omg.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread (UFC 217 in MSG pg 37) 

Post#859 » by HEZI » Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:59 am

Khabib is a man on a mission
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread (UFC 217 in MSG pg 37) 

Post#860 » by matchman » Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:00 am

Barboxa only chance is to wait for a kick KO, but the striking distance is not in his favour since the first or second minute of round one.
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