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Official MMA discussion thread: UFC 231 Holloway vs Ortega finally!

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Re: Official MMA discussion thread (UFC 219 + 2018 predictions pg 45) 

Post#901 » by j4remi » Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:35 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:Chael looked washed up against Tito. Actually, I thought that Chael simply threw the fight so Tito could go out as a king. That's how bad I thought he looked. :lol:


:lol: You're not the only one. There was a few weeks of speculation about Chael throwing it because he had about 15 seconds of fight in him for a 15 minutes scheduled bout. I can't believe they put that as the main event over Rory and Lima (although I ironically proposed modeling cards exactly this way a year).
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread (UFC 219 + 2018 predictions pg 45) 

Post#902 » by waya » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:19 pm

How is the scheduling aligned tonight for both events? I'm hoping to see the last 3 Bellator bouts and the last 2 UFC bouts. I'll prob have to break out a second monitor

There's also Spence JR/Peterson as well
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread (UFC 219 + 2018 predictions pg 45) 

Post#903 » by j4remi » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:23 pm

waya wrote:How is the scheduling aligned tonight for both events? I'm hoping to see the last 3 Bellator bouts and the last 2 UFC bouts. I'll prob have to break out a second monitor

There's also Spence JR/Peterson as well


Yeah, it's too much fire on tonight. I'm going to a sports bar, sucks not to be able to DVR the fights and watch them back but honestly the UFC card is only 2 great fights and a bunch of FX level bouts. I hate when events overlap like this.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread (UFC 219 + 2018 predictions pg 45) 

Post#904 » by Red Vines » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:24 pm

Forgot Miocic vs Ngannou is tonight that will be brutal.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread (UFC 219 + 2018 predictions pg 45) 

Post#905 » by j4remi » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:29 pm

I think Stipe looks to shoot on the overhand from Ngannou, he has to do something to take away that lead hand uppercut/shovel hook and take him into deep water. I like Ngannou to win but I'm really interested in the tactics of this one, they could be game changing...Ngannou has that X-Factor though. Been calling him future champ since Curtis Blaydes.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread (UFC 219 + 2018 predictions pg 45) 

Post#906 » by Kinglee » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:22 pm

Glad I found this topic. Who is the surefire bet tonight. Like the guy you can't see losing tonight? I was told Burgos and Nganno
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread (UFC 219 + 2018 predictions pg 45) 

Post#907 » by HarthorneWingo » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:37 pm

j4remi wrote:
waya wrote:How is the scheduling aligned tonight for both events? I'm hoping to see the last 3 Bellator bouts and the last 2 UFC bouts. I'll prob have to break out a second monitor

There's also Spence JR/Peterson as well


Yeah, it's too much fire on tonight. I'm going to a sports bar, sucks not to be able to DVR the fights and watch them back but honestly the UFC card is only 2 great fights and a bunch of FX level bouts. I hate when events overlap like this.


They'll be on YouTube shortly after the fights are over.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread (UFC 219 + 2018 predictions pg 45) 

Post#908 » by j4remi » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:33 am

Kinglee wrote:Glad I found this topic. Who is the surefire bet tonight. Like the guy you can't see losing tonight? I was told Burgos and Nganno


Both Oezdemir and Ngannou have been extra dominant so we haven't seen their weaknesses to say they'll definitely lose. But I like Cormier's wrestling as the most surefire way to win a fight on the card. I'm picking Ngannou but I think Stipe has a good chance for the upset. Burgos is my guy, I've seen some heads say that it's a closer fight than we think but in general he's good bet. The Bellator fights have a couple I like though. Michael Chandler's only recent lost came because he injured his ankle mid-fight and he was the best lightweight in the division hands down before that. So I like him to beat Yamauchi. Then Pico is gonna get the Coker deluxe treatment, big investments for Coker get fed fights that they can win for a while. He's probably a safe bet.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread (UFC 219 + 2018 predictions pg 45) 

Post#909 » by Manhattan Project » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:39 am

j4remi wrote:[.


Do you still love MMA as much as you used to? I know you cover it and probably the most knowledgeable person I know in regards to MMA. Do you see the UFC has a dying sport, or it's better than ever because of the ever expanding skill sets of fighters? I just feel right now that the injuries and substance abuse for some are really hurting the brand from establishing big names. Guys like Mighty Mouse and Max Halloway should be much bigger names, yet because their not Light Heavyweights don't seem to get much love from the casual fan.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread (UFC 219 + 2018 predictions pg 45) 

Post#910 » by Kinglee » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:59 am

j4remi wrote:
Kinglee wrote:Glad I found this topic. Who is the surefire bet tonight. Like the guy you can't see losing tonight? I was told Burgos and Nganno


Both Oezdemir and Ngannou have been extra dominant so we haven't seen their weaknesses to say they'll definitely lose. But I like Cormier's wrestling as the most surefire way to win a fight on the card. I'm picking Ngannou but I think Stipe has a good chance for the upset. Burgos is my guy, I've seen some heads say that it's a closer fight than we think but in general he's good bet. The Bellator fights have a couple I like though. Michael Chandler's only recent lost came because he injured his ankle mid-fight and he was the best lightweight in the division hands down before that. So I like him to beat Yamauchi. Then Pico is gonna get the Coker deluxe treatment, big investments for Coker get fed fights that they can win for a while. He's probably a safe bet.



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Re: Official MMA discussion thread (UFC 219 + 2018 predictions pg 45) 

Post#911 » by j4remi » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:15 am

Manhattan Project wrote:
Do you still love MMA as much as you used to? I know you cover it and probably the most knowledgeable person I know in regards to MMA. Do you see the UFC has a dying sport, or it's better than ever because of the ever expanding skill sets of fighters? I just feel right now that the injuries and substance abuse for some are really hurting the brand from establishing big names. Guys like Mighty Mouse and Max Halloway should be much bigger names, yet because their now Light Heavyweights don't seem to get much love from the casual fan.


I love the sport as much as I always have, but the UFC as a promotion is a huge disappointment since being sold by the Fertita brothers. The Fertita brothers were a lot more focused on putting together the best fighters and having a sink or swim mentality. Once it switched up, the premium has gone from having a good PPV every month to making one quarterly blockbuster surrounded by forgettable cards. I buy the majority of these things but I refuse to pay for tonight's card in spite of the two main event fights being incredible. The rest of the card just doesn't live up to it. Next month Rockhold/Romero is the only fight that's worthy of its slot on the card. It's the first time in years that I wouldn't be worried if I missed it live.

Now as a fight fan though, I'm pretty excited about what we're seeing. There's a new generation stepping into the slots that the older guys once occupied and there are a bunch of up and comers that are really exciting. We're seeing more Olympic level athletes and this next generation is basically the first group that have spent their entire lives in a world with MMA. For a fight geek like me, there's also a lot of cool developments in the specific disciplines. Kickboxing and muay thai is more accessible on tv these days and the Eddie Bravo Invitational along with Flo have turned BJJ events into more entertaining affairs. Plus as you mentioned, skillsets are expanding. Grapplers have added leg locks more and more, footwork and boxing fundamentals are incorporated into every new fighter's striking and we're seeing guys who would have been specialists in the past that are showing much more well-rounded abilities...think Brian Ortega, a Gracie Jiu Jitsu guy who is overwhelming great fighters when he grapples with them, but who has also developed into a striker that can stand with Cub Swanson and be competitive.

Top that off with the fact that other organizations are getting deeper. Douglas Lima beat Lorenz Larkin after taking the belt from Koreshkov who dominated Benson Henderson; now he has a chance to beat Rory MacDonald who has been UFC elite for years. Bellator's up and comers are able to threaten a lot of the older UFC guys coming in. Meanwhile Rizin is starting to feel more or the PRIDE influence and I LOVED PRIDE fighting. They're doing smaller divisions right. Invicta, WSOF and FNG are all putting on some nice events, I think FNG had an event where something like 9 out of 10 fights were stoppages (lots of highlights too).

For the avid MMA fan there's a lot to enjoy, but the UFC has taken itself out of being must see tv whenever they're on. That could be worse for the sport long term than anything else thanks to UFC's influence but if they keep bleeding out quality guys like Horiguchi, Mousasi, MacDonald, etc. we could find ourselves in the good ole days where the champions of multiple promotions all have a claim to best fighter in their respective divisions and also an era where the UFC isn't a monopoly that fighters have to acquiesce to. I'm excited for the future tbh.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread (UFC 219 + 2018 predictions pg 45) 

Post#912 » by Duke4life831 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:29 am

Kinglee wrote:Glad I found this topic. Who is the surefire bet tonight. Like the guy you can't see losing tonight? I was told Burgos and Nganno


I think Cormier is as close to a surefire bet for the fights tonight. I know its hard getting the Jon Jones knock out, out of your mind but Cormier has been really dominant in basically all of his fights outside of Jones and his close fight with Gustafasson. I know Volkan has looked really impressive but its not like he has gone through murderers row to get this title shot. I personally thought Volkan and Gustafasson should've fought to see who got the next title fight, but I get wanting a fresh face in a title fight and Gustafasson has already had 2 chances. I'm just not really all impressed with Volkan's resume. I think DC is a huge step up in level of competition than Jimi Manuwa, OSP and Misha Cirkunov. So put me as someone that would be shocked if Volkan gets the upset.

I also don't think Ngannou is as big of a favorite as many make him out to be. No doubt if he lands one of those big uppercuts then the fight is over. But Stipe has fought the whos who in the heavyweight division and is on a 5 KO streak himself including the last 4 in the 1st round, so its not like Ngannou doesn't have to worry about being caught himself. I also think Stipe is the more well rounded fighter right now.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread (UFC 219 + 2018 predictions pg 45) 

Post#913 » by Manhattan Project » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:30 am

If I could I'd give it more +1's :lol:

Yeah man I can just read the enthusiasm you have for the sport just from that post. I never followed the sport outside of UFC all that much, but I got to agree that ever since the selling of the UFC they have gone down hill crazy quick. Yeah I miss the old Pride days, even though I never watched any of it live, but watching those fights on TV/Youtube were always entertaining. Rampage/Shogun insert the million other fighters that thrived over there.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread (UFC 219 + 2018 predictions pg 45) 

Post#914 » by Duke4life831 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:47 am

j4remi wrote:
Manhattan Project wrote:
Do you still love MMA as much as you used to? I know you cover it and probably the most knowledgeable person I know in regards to MMA. Do you see the UFC has a dying sport, or it's better than ever because of the ever expanding skill sets of fighters? I just feel right now that the injuries and substance abuse for some are really hurting the brand from establishing big names. Guys like Mighty Mouse and Max Halloway should be much bigger names, yet because their now Light Heavyweights don't seem to get much love from the casual fan.


I love the sport as much as I always have, but the UFC as a promotion is a huge disappointment since being sold by the Fertita brothers. The Fertita brothers were a lot more focused on putting together the best fighters and having a sink or swim mentality. Once it switched up, the premium has gone from having a good PPV every month to making one quarterly blockbuster surrounded by forgettable cards. I buy the majority of these things but I refuse to pay for tonight's card in spite of the two main event fights being incredible. The rest of the card just doesn't live up to it. Next month Rockhold/Romero is the only fight that's worthy of its slot on the card. It's the first time in years that I wouldn't be worried if I missed it live.

Now as a fight fan though, I'm pretty excited about what we're seeing. There's a new generation stepping into the slots that the older guys once occupied and there are a bunch of up and comers that are really exciting. We're seeing more Olympic level athletes and this next generation is basically the first group that have spent their entire lives in a world with MMA. For a fight geek like me, there's also a lot of cool developments in the specific disciplines. Kickboxing and muay thai is more accessible on tv these days and the Eddie Bravo Invitational along with Flo have turned BJJ events into more entertaining affairs. Plus as you mentioned, skillsets are expanding. Grapplers have added leg locks more and more, footwork and boxing fundamentals are incorporated into every new fighter's striking and we're seeing guys who would have been specialists in the past that are showing much more well-rounded abilities...think Brian Ortega, a Gracie Jiu Jitsu guy who is overwhelming great fighters when he grapples with them, but who has also developed into a striker that can stand with Cub Swanson and be competitive.

Top that off with the fact that other organizations are getting deeper. Douglas Lima beat Lorenz Larkin after taking the belt from Koreshkov who dominated Benson Henderson; now he has a chance to beat Rory MacDonald who has been UFC elite for years. Bellator's up and comers are able to threaten a lot of the older UFC guys coming in. Meanwhile Rizin is starting to feel more or the PRIDE influence and I LOVED PRIDE fighting. They're doing smaller divisions right. Invicta, WSOF and FNG are all putting on some nice events, I think FNG had an event where something like 9 out of 10 fights were stoppages (lots of highlights too).

For the avid MMA fan there's a lot to enjoy, but the UFC has taken itself out of being must see tv whenever they're on. That could be worse for the sport long term than anything else thanks to UFC's influence but if they keep bleeding out quality guys like Horiguchi, Mousasi, MacDonald, etc. we could find ourselves in the good ole days where the champions of multiple promotions all have a claim to best fighter in their respective divisions and also an era where the UFC isn't a monopoly that fighters have to acquiesce to. I'm excited for the future tbh.


I have really questioned how big of a loss Joe Silva has been for the UFC. I think he was an amazing matchmaker and was a huge reason why UFC shows were so good and consistent. I wonder if him stepping down had anything to do with the WME buying the UFC. Because no doubt it seems since the buyout/Silva leaving (UFC 206 was his last card he made) we have seen more of a direction towards big money fights and less true earning of the fights (best way I could put it). Don't get me wrong this can still lead to some amazing cards, UFC 217 was a stacked and entertaining card all the way down to the fights on Fight Pass. But no doubt we see a lot more inconsistency with the cards. I think this has to do with trying to put on the big money fights and UFC trying to put on almost 2-3 fight cards a month.

No doubt I do miss the good old days, where GSP was dominating the WW division but you had a dog fight between Koscheck, Condit, Fitch, Alves, Hardy, and others just battling it out trying to be the next guy to take on GSP. That was the great thing with the matchmaking back then, everything was really earned so those guys really had to battle like crazy to get a title shot. Then since all those guys were battling each other, all their fights became must watch fights. It made for deeper and more consistent cards plus their wasn't a card going on every other week as well.

UFC cards back then just seemed more organic especially when compared to boxing. Now it seems like UFC matchmaking is becoming more and more like boxing by the month. Everything is all about the big money fight and again don't get me wrong it can produce some great fights and cards, it just seems to lend itself to a lot more of these droughts, which the UFC used to rarely have.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread (UFC 219 + 2018 predictions pg 45) 

Post#915 » by Kinglee » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:51 am

Duke4life831 wrote:
Kinglee wrote:Glad I found this topic. Who is the surefire bet tonight. Like the guy you can't see losing tonight? I was told Burgos and Nganno


I think Cormier is as close to a surefire bet for the fights tonight. I know its hard getting the Jon Jones knock out, out of your mind but Cormier has been really dominant in basically all of his fights outside of Jones and his close fight with Gustafasson. I know Volkan has looked really impressive but its not like he has gone through murderers row to get this title shot. I personally thought Volkan and Gustafasson should've fought to see who got the next title fight, but I get wanting a fresh face in a title fight and Gustafasson has already had 2 chances. I'm just not really all impressed with Volkan's resume. I think DC is a huge step up in level of competition than Jimi Manuwa, OSP and Misha Cirkunov. So put me as someone that would be shocked if Volkan gets the upset.

I also don't think Ngannou is as big of a favorite as many make him out to be. No doubt if he lands one of those big uppercuts then the fight is over. But Stipe has fought the whos who in the heavyweight division and is on a 5 KO streak himself including the last 4 in the 1st round, so its not like Ngannou doesn't have to worry about being caught himself. I also think Stipe is the more well rounded fighter right now.


Just picked Cromier. -350 odds! Yall have 4 guarantee winners for me?
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread (UFC 219 + 2018 predictions pg 45) 

Post#916 » by Duke4life831 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:08 am

Kinglee wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
Kinglee wrote:Glad I found this topic. Who is the surefire bet tonight. Like the guy you can't see losing tonight? I was told Burgos and Nganno


I think Cormier is as close to a surefire bet for the fights tonight. I know its hard getting the Jon Jones knock out, out of your mind but Cormier has been really dominant in basically all of his fights outside of Jones and his close fight with Gustafasson. I know Volkan has looked really impressive but its not like he has gone through murderers row to get this title shot. I personally thought Volkan and Gustafasson should've fought to see who got the next title fight, but I get wanting a fresh face in a title fight and Gustafasson has already had 2 chances. I'm just not really all impressed with Volkan's resume. I think DC is a huge step up in level of competition than Jimi Manuwa, OSP and Misha Cirkunov. So put me as someone that would be shocked if Volkan gets the upset.

I also don't think Ngannou is as big of a favorite as many make him out to be. No doubt if he lands one of those big uppercuts then the fight is over. But Stipe has fought the whos who in the heavyweight division and is on a 5 KO streak himself including the last 4 in the 1st round, so its not like Ngannou doesn't have to worry about being caught himself. I also think Stipe is the more well rounded fighter right now.


Just picked Cromier. -350 odds! Yall have 4 guarantee winners for me?


Right now I have 3 fights I have a really good feeling on. That is DC, I already went over that above. Shane Burgos, he's undefeated and this feels like the fight that UFC sometimes gives for their up and comers. An easy fight on the PPV main card so they can look good and get some notoriety. Then my easiest one for the night is Alhassan over Hamasi. Hamasi looked horrible against Tim Means and these two just fought a few months ago and Alhassan stopped him (very controversial) but still. I don't expect Hamasi to be apart of the UFC after tonight, just isn't the level of fighter. And if I would to have a 4 one, it would be MacDonald. I feel like it is always a safe bet to bet on MacDonald.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread (UFC 219 + 2018 predictions pg 45) 

Post#917 » by Red Vines » Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:31 am

They said Almeida was exciting because he likes to mix it up and take damage but all he basically did was take damage.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread (UFC 219 + 2018 predictions pg 45) 

Post#918 » by Duke4life831 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:02 am

Duke4life831 wrote:
Kinglee wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
I think Cormier is as close to a surefire bet for the fights tonight. I know its hard getting the Jon Jones knock out, out of your mind but Cormier has been really dominant in basically all of his fights outside of Jones and his close fight with Gustafasson. I know Volkan has looked really impressive but its not like he has gone through murderers row to get this title shot. I personally thought Volkan and Gustafasson should've fought to see who got the next title fight, but I get wanting a fresh face in a title fight and Gustafasson has already had 2 chances. I'm just not really all impressed with Volkan's resume. I think DC is a huge step up in level of competition than Jimi Manuwa, OSP and Misha Cirkunov. So put me as someone that would be shocked if Volkan gets the upset.

I also don't think Ngannou is as big of a favorite as many make him out to be. No doubt if he lands one of those big uppercuts then the fight is over. But Stipe has fought the whos who in the heavyweight division and is on a 5 KO streak himself including the last 4 in the 1st round, so its not like Ngannou doesn't have to worry about being caught himself. I also think Stipe is the more well rounded fighter right now.


Just picked Cromier. -350 odds! Yall have 4 guarantee winners for me?


Right now I have 3 fights I have a really good feeling on. That is DC, I already went over that above. Shane Burgos, he's undefeated and this feels like the fight that UFC sometimes gives for their up and comers. An easy fight on the PPV main card so they can look good and get some notoriety. Then my easiest one for the night is Alhassan over Hamasi. Hamasi looked horrible against Tim Means and these two just fought a few months ago and Alhassan stopped him (very controversial) but still. I don't expect Hamasi to be apart of the UFC after tonight, just isn't the level of fighter. And if I would to have a 4 one, it would be MacDonald. I feel like it is always a safe bet to bet on MacDonald.


Got 3/4. If Burgos had a better gameplan than just walk in and take jab after jab after jab he probably wouldve gotten the win. That just looked like a fighter that needed a loss because he got a little too cocky. DC is just a beast, like I said Volkan hasnt faced anyone close to DC's level and it showed really quick.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread (UFC 219 + 2018 predictions pg 45) 

Post#919 » by Red Vines » Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:26 am

What a fight so far! Ngannou fatigued!
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread (UFC 219 + 2018 predictions pg 45) 

Post#920 » by islanders11040 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:28 am

HORRRYYYY ****. What a round

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