Hypothetical: Knicks get Ball

[battabing10]

lonzo ball is for real no question but jax seem like he wants to run the triangle so ball's talent and skill would not be a great fit. with jax triangle as foundation you go for best fit not bpa anyway, even if you drop a few spots. folks may wanna throw a fit but that may be realty. i thing the young man from michigan fit best, miles bridges. then again, maybe ball the only dude who forces jax to rethink.

[Greenie]

We are supposed to say what we think will happen or should happen if we draft Lonzo.

In this scenario, come FA, DRose's agent wouldn't even have his phone calls returned by Phil.

I could see Phil still bringing him back.

[mpharris36]

lonzo ball is for real no question but jax seem like he wants to run the triangle so ball's talent and skill would not be a great fit. with jax triangle as foundation you go for best fit not bpa anyway, even if you drop a few spots. folks may wanna throw a fit but that may be realty. i thing the young man from michigan fit best, miles bridges. then again, maybe ball the only dude who forces jax to rethink.

ball not a good fit for the triangle?

tall lead guard - check
high bbiq - check
can play off the ball - check
can spread the floor - check
unselfish - check

he pretty much is a triangle wet dream.

[Greenie]

lonzo ball is for real no question but jax seem like he wants to run the triangle so ball's talent and skill would not be a great fit. with jax triangle as foundation you go for best fit not bpa anyway, even if you drop a few spots. folks may wanna throw a fit but that may be realty. i thing the young man from michigan fit best, miles bridges. then again, maybe ball the only dude who forces jax to rethink.

If Ball is on the board when we pick and Phil passes on him...

Join me and Shamm on the dark side.

[thebuzzardman]

What do they do?

As good as this kid is, I say you def go ahead with the rebuild, and at least trade Melo. I'm all for trading C Lee as well. Between the two guys, hopefully you trim some salary and you pick up 2 mid-late firsts, or a first and some second rounders, or some combination of pick/young players with upside. Maybe that's a pipe dream in itself, maybe not. But either way-

Ball/Baker/Randle
Holiday/Lee?
Lance/Kuz
KP
Will/KO/Noah

Two 2nd rounders coming as well. As long as you shed Melo and Rose, who in the NBA will have a better situation in terms of youth/talent/flexibility? Definitely some, but not many.

Ball and KP is such a fantastic combination, you couldn't dream it up. If the Knicks pull it off, the dark days will immediately and finally be behind us. Instant championship? Hell no. A quantum leap from where the Knicks are now and where they were before KP was drafted? Forget about it..

You still have KP playing and chasing PF's?

Don't turn this into one of your little sh*t shows about KP, please. Thank you.

We can play him wherever you'd like for the sake of this thread, K?

Everyone, KP is a center now.

I think his best position is C, at least on defense. Can he see time at the 4? Yeah, probably 10 mpg, just like Melo, at this stage in his career, can see time at the 3, but I wouldn't want more than 10 mpg either.

KP: C - 22 mpg, PF 10 mpg
WH: C: 26 mpg, PF 4 mpg
Melo: PF 22 mpg, SF 10 mpg
Rotate KOQ or Noah or WH at additional minutes in the C/PF slot to get to 48 mpg at PF/C. Ideally, Noah would be gone but he won't with that contract so I'd deal KOQ for a late first rounder, because I think that is objectively his value. If no one wants to pay that, then keep him.

[Esq-4]

We need to jump all over him.
What are his weaknesses?

i honestly don't know. there's not much out there about him. all i know is that when he was at UCLA last year he wasn't utilized right. you can really see the difference between him from last year and now, it's day and night. i'd take him just based on his skill set and potential. the kid can shoot it lights out, create his shot from anywhere, solid rebounder, has an impact on defense due to his size and length. we should pull the trigger on him, he's too good to pass up on. i also want us to pick up dwayne bacon with our other second rounder. he looks like a solid shooting guard. he's been carrying FSU all season. knicks could really have this rebuild done right now if they do it right

lonzo
bacon
mkg? (or someone else i guess)
bolden
porzingis

that could really be a dangerous team

How old is Bolden?

Bolden is 21. Played a year at UCLA (was not eligible as a freshman and then left after sophomore season to play pro). Second round pick? Why not?

[whocares1]

You still have KP playing and chasing PF's?

Don't turn this into one of your little sh*t shows about KP, please. Thank you.

We can play him wherever you'd like for the sake of this thread, K?

Everyone, KP is a center now.

I think his best position is C, at least on defense. Can he see time at the 4? Yeah, probably 10 mpg, just like Melo, at this stage in his career, can see time at the 3, but I wouldn't want more than 10 mpg either.

KP: C - 22 mpg, PF 10 mpg
WH: C: 26 mpg, PF 4 mpg
Melo: PF 22 mpg, SF 10 mpg
Rotate KOQ or Noah or WH at additional minutes in the C/PF slot to get to 48 mpg at PF/C. Ideally, Noah would be gone but he won't with that contract so I'd deal KOQ for a late first rounder, because I think that is objectively his value. If no one wants to pay that, then keep him.

If you play KP 22 minutes at the 5, and Billy 26 minutes at the 5, there's no minutes for Noah whatsoever. Noah is likely going to get anywhere from 10-20 minutes a night. KP is going to have to learn to play better defense at the 4 spot, and that comes from better team defense as a whole.

[Esq-4]

You still have KP playing and chasing PF's?

Don't turn this into one of your little sh*t shows about KP, please. Thank you.

We can play him wherever you'd like for the sake of this thread, K?

Everyone, KP is a center now.

I think his best position is C, at least on defense. Can he see time at the 4? Yeah, probably 10 mpg, just like Melo, at this stage in his career, can see time at the 3, but I wouldn't want more than 10 mpg either.

KP: C - 22 mpg, PF 10 mpg
WH: C: 26 mpg, PF 4 mpg
Melo: PF 22 mpg, SF 10 mpg
Rotate KOQ or Noah or WH at additional minutes in the C/PF slot to get to 48 mpg at PF/C. Ideally, Noah would be gone but he won't with that contract so I'd deal KOQ for a late first rounder, because I think that is objectively his value. If no one wants to pay that, then keep him.

Hopefully we don't end up with too much of a minutes log jam with KP and Willy. Hate to lose Willy one​ day because they​ are both C's and he wants to start (you can hopefully address minutes by playing both together for 10 or so minutes as suggested above). Those 2 with Noah as mentor, O'Quinn backing up the 4 and Melo starting at the 4 sliding for small stretches to the 3 might be enough playing time...

[Deeeez Knicks]

No matter who we draft we should try to trade Melo

[thebuzzardman]

Don't turn this into one of your little sh*t shows about KP, please. Thank you.

We can play him wherever you'd like for the sake of this thread, K?

Everyone, KP is a center now.

I think his best position is C, at least on defense. Can he see time at the 4? Yeah, probably 10 mpg, just like Melo, at this stage in his career, can see time at the 3, but I wouldn't want more than 10 mpg either.

KP: C - 22 mpg, PF 10 mpg
WH: C: 26 mpg, PF 4 mpg
Melo: PF 22 mpg, SF 10 mpg
Rotate KOQ or Noah or WH at additional minutes in the C/PF slot to get to 48 mpg at PF/C. Ideally, Noah would be gone but he won't with that contract so I'd deal KOQ for a late first rounder, because I think that is objectively his value. If no one wants to pay that, then keep him.

If you play KP 22 minutes at the 5, and Billy 26 minutes at the 5, there's no minutes for Noah whatsoever. Noah is likely going to get anywhere from 10-20 minutes a night. KP is going to have to learn to play better defense at the 4 spot, and that comes from better team defense as a whole.

In an ideal world I'd have Noah off the team, but I understand that isn't happening. I had Noah/KOQ down for rotation minutes because they were still light minutes at PF. I mean, if the Knicks had more depth at SF, or went with Holiday\CLee, Melo's minutes could go up at PF. Long story short, Melo needs to play majority at PF and KP should see more time at C than PF, but Phil's C obsession/glut at C mean KP will be playing out of position at PF for a few more years, barring trades.

[moocow007]

No matter who we draft we should try to trade Melo

Agreed. But they need to get some serious value back and not just basically dump him.

[moocow007]

I think his best position is C, at least on defense. Can he see time at the 4? Yeah, probably 10 mpg, just like Melo, at this stage in his career, can see time at the 3, but I wouldn't want more than 10 mpg either.

KP: C - 22 mpg, PF 10 mpg
WH: C: 26 mpg, PF 4 mpg
Melo: PF 22 mpg, SF 10 mpg
Rotate KOQ or Noah or WH at additional minutes in the C/PF slot to get to 48 mpg at PF/C. Ideally, Noah would be gone but he won't with that contract so I'd deal KOQ for a late first rounder, because I think that is objectively his value. If no one wants to pay that, then keep him.

If you play KP 22 minutes at the 5, and Billy 26 minutes at the 5, there's no minutes for Noah whatsoever. Noah is likely going to get anywhere from 10-20 minutes a night. KP is going to have to learn to play better defense at the 4 spot, and that comes from better team defense as a whole.

In an ideal world I'd have Noah off the team, but I understand that isn't happening. I had Noah/KOQ down for rotation minutes because they were still light minutes at PF. I mean, if the Knicks had more depth at SF, or went with Holiday\CLee, Melo's minutes could go up at PF. Long story short, Melo needs to play majority at PF and KP should see more time at C than PF, but Phil's C obsession/glut at C mean KP will be playing out of position at PF for a few more years, barring trades.

They should be shopping KOQ right now for a trade in the summer. I'm sure even with the trade deadline over that teams are still talking deals. They don't need KOQ. With Porzingis and Hernangomez both able to play the same position having O'Quinn is really just a luxury. A luxury is not what the Knicks need right now and KOQ should have enough value to bring in something that can help them in an area of actual need.

[Deeeez Knicks]

No matter who we draft we should try to trade Melo

Agreed. But they need to get some serious value back and not just basically dump him.

Yeah, I def wouldn't dump him, but I don't think we'll be able to get full value either. I would try to get as many picks as we can even if they are a few years down the line.

[Coeur]

You get Lonzo and be thrilled to have a player that compliments Carmelo and KP.


For Lonzo the reason the Knicks are a great fit for him are both those guys. You want Lonzo to be in a spot where he's not asked to be a primary scoring option.

[battabing10]

lonzo ball is for real no question but jax seem like he wants to run the triangle so ball's talent and skill would not be a great fit. with jax triangle as foundation you go for best fit not bpa anyway, even if you drop a few spots. folks may wanna throw a fit but that may be realty. i thing the young man from michigan fit best, miles bridges. then again, maybe ball the only dude who forces jax to rethink.

ball not a good fit for the triangle?

tall lead guard - check
high bbiq - check
can play off the ball - check
can spread the floor - check
unselfish - check

he pretty much is a triangle wet dream.

all i'm saying is his skillset as orchestrator in nash/paul/kidd mode would not be at full potential in the triangle. still it would be crazy to not draft him if the knicks can no doubt.

[Greenie]

The Knicks should trade Melo regardless of who they get in the draft in my opinion. It's time to go a different direction. Melo is still a good player but nto capable of being a primary option on a very good team. His role in the NBA now should be scoring support to a contending team.

He's also serving as a detriment to the touches that KP gets, though more of that could be on Rose......

Honestly, though, if Ball is what he is billed to be, the Knicks might actually want to Keep Melo....

Ball/Melo/KP/Willy is the foundation of a great offense...I just wonder if our defense will ever be able to catch up with Melo and Willy playing big minutes. Also, if Ball isn't as good as he is billed to be right away, then having Melo taking lots of touches from him could also hurt.

I'm praying for a tank job to end all tank jobs and to see the Knicks get Ball and trade Melo, Lee, and Lance. That way we go into the 18' season with Ball and KP having free reign over the court.

However....having a lineup of

Ball
Lee
Lance
Melo
KP

would be pretty fun to watch.

Though I think the limitations of our personnel have been very glaring so far this season

Melo isn't a great small forward anymore, so he is best served offensively and defensively as a power forward...

KP is fine offensively at either position but clearly isn't big enough to hold up as a C full time and not quick enough to chase PF's around the wing.

C lee is getting up there in age and is fine defensively, but struggles during switches...

Rose is....Rose....

ETC

we offer very little in the way of versatility and offensive pieces are at odds with each other. Maximizing KP's strengths means finding a C that can guard the post AND switch out on to forwards on the perimeter a la Dray or Thompson, but those are tough to find.

Maximizing Melo's strengths means putting him at the 4 and putting a rim protector behind him to make up for his perimeter deficiencies a la Tyson on the Mavs with Dirk. Again hard to find.

Both of those situations are at odds with each other, and the latter takes away from KP's development.

Of course, that could all be helped immensely by stopping the ball at the point of attack, since both KP and MElo have proven to be solid help defenders, and even Melo has done well from what I've seen defending even good offensive players in isolation. It's when the ball is moving and shooters are taking us off the dribble on the perimeter that we have a serious issue, and, since this is 2017 in the NBA, that's the norm.

In fact, there's only one team I can think of that is actually not playing ball that way. You know, playing heavy in isolation, slowing the ball down, posting up a lot, taking long two's in iso against set defenses and what not....

hmhmhmhm which team is that...you know, the one that isn't shooting a lot of 3's, getting a lot of assists, or getting to the line much at all.....hmhmhmhmhmhm

What is the name of this team....it starts with a silent K. I think it's Dutch in origin. That Kn sound like Knight, Knackers, Knack, Knudt, and Knife. Something like that.


Ugh, what is the name of that team that is playing like it's 2003 and sporting one of the worst defenses and barely average offenses despite heavy offensive talent.

UGH

HELP ME!!!!!

KN...KNI?....KNI...C?

Is it the Knicks?!?!?!

Oh oh oh I know this answer.
Who are the Brooklyn Nets?

[Sark]

No matter who we draft we should try to trade Melo

We're gonna try, but it might not be possible. In which case he'd have to come off the bench.

[whocares1]

No matter who we draft we should try to trade Melo

We're gonna try, but it might not be possible. In which case he'd have to come off the bench.

Lol don't get your hopes up..

[3toheadmelo]

i honestly don't know. there's not much out there about him. all i know is that when he was at UCLA last year he wasn't utilized right. you can really see the difference between him from last year and now, it's day and night. i'd take him just based on his skill set and potential. the kid can shoot it lights out, create his shot from anywhere, solid rebounder, has an impact on defense due to his size and length. we should pull the trigger on him, he's too good to pass up on. i also want us to pick up dwayne bacon with our other second rounder. he looks like a solid shooting guard. he's been carrying FSU all season. knicks could really have this rebuild done right now if they do it right

lonzo
bacon
mkg? (or someone else i guess)
bolden
porzingis

that could really be a dangerous team

How old is Bolden?

Bolden is 21. Played a year at UCLA (was not eligible as a freshman and then left after sophomore season to play pro). Second round pick? Why not?

yeah what he said

[vallen]

I think in that situation Phil wouldn't trade Melo and Melo wouldn't request a trade. I think he'd be fine staying in NY to play with Ball rather than ring chasing.

he would rather stay with anyone in NY then ring chasing. hes to scared to leave to ring chase, because then he loses his excuse. hes staying here to take all that money, then use NY as a reason he couldnt win. the stand up dude he is, knows he has a built in excuse, and loves the security of that.