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Phil will talk today at 2:30 - WRITEUP - pg 17

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Re: Phil will talk today at 2:30 - WRITEUP - pg 17 

Post#1181 » by Knicksfan1992 » Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:10 pm

Phish Tank wrote:
Bill Pidto wrote:Another act of selfishness on Melo's resume:

Y'all remember when Chauncey Billups was traded to the Nuggets that one year and resurrected the team? Was damn near an MVP candidate that season, and it was awesome to see. Of course he and Melo form a bond of sorts, and Melo could probably thank Billups a ton for coming in and handling the leadership role he obviously couldn't fill himself.

Fast forward to 2010, and it's time to force a trade to NY. Now, evidently, Billups loved it in Denver and was more than happy to be traded there. He was born and raised there, played college ball in Colorado, and by all means, did not want to leave. Not a big city guy like Melo, and he was in the twighlight of his career, but still playing well enough and feeling very comfortable with retiring as a Nugget. And this is a guy who deserves respect. Big time seniority over Melo, and a proven winner/NBA champ.

But Melo wanted NY. And he could have signed here as a FA just a few months later. We all know that. But Melo had to get his money up front, and he had to get out of Denver, asap. So f*ck you, Chauncey Billups. We're going to NY!!!

I remember Chauncey was pretty damn upset about that. Melo was happy though. Chauncey remained classy and supportive of Melo and tried to play his role for the Knicks like the pro that he always was.

Of course the Knicks were dominated in the playoffs that year. Billups went from being loved in Denver to being an afterthought in NY, and was eventually amnestied and sent away like a cheap hooker.

#stayme7o


are you serious with this or should this post have been highlighted in green?


The worse part is that someone actually responded to this garbage and called it a great post and went a long-winded rant along with it. :lol: Knicks board never change.
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Re: Phil will talk today at 2:30 - WRITEUP - pg 17 

Post#1182 » by Tron Carter » Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:11 pm

KnickLeDime wrote:Melo is a known commodity, doesn't play ANY defense, doesn't move the ball. Who's the guy that resigned him AND gave him a NTC and now going to dump him for pennies on the dollar? Can't believe people just letting Phil slide on that.


nah you don't understand. phil is the first person to achieve full autonomy from dolan so we have to keep him but he got bullied by dolan to re-sign melo and give him a ntc.

yeah it doesn't make sense to me either but that's the logic were going with around here.
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Re: Phil will talk today at 2:30 - WRITEUP - pg 17 

Post#1183 » by battabing10 » Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:19 pm

Bill Pidto wrote:
Kinglee wrote:
Jeffrey wrote:
Again your basketball knowledge is lacking. When we say come off the bench, it doesn't mean you're in a damn CYO game and you suck. You do realize that there is 2 units per team in a game right? Andre Igoudala could probably start at least 10 teams in the NBA, Enes Kanter could probably start at least 50% in the NBA right now.


You don't put your best offensive player on the bench. Your knowledge is lacking. Why the **** is Carmelo coming off the bench even a thought? It's dumb as ****, no matter what team he's on.


Maybe because the only thing he does is score and look to score, and doesn't do it very efficiently either.

Take away the rest of his career and accomplishments, the current version of Melo is a prime candidate for a 6th man role on a good team. He simply doesn't do enough of anything else to be starting on a team with real aspirations, and certainly is no longer the type of player you continue to try and build around. "Team's best offensive player" is also becoming more and more of a stretch.


knicks can be a .500 ball club next year just think of how many games they lost in the last few seconds cause they couldnt get stops. at least ten games could have gone the other way. you replace rose and melo with two decent defenders like baker and thomas and you get better right away. yeah i know "we lose all those points" well how has that worked for the knicks??? i even go a step further and say if melo come off the bench in that scenario knicks make the playoffs.
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Re: Phil will talk today at 2:30 - WRITEUP - pg 17 

Post#1184 » by KnickLeDime » Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:30 pm

battabing10 wrote:
Bill Pidto wrote:
Kinglee wrote:
You don't put your best offensive player on the bench. Your knowledge is lacking. Why the **** is Carmelo coming off the bench even a thought? It's dumb as ****, no matter what team he's on.


Maybe because the only thing he does is score and look to score, and doesn't do it very efficiently either.

Take away the rest of his career and accomplishments, the current version of Melo is a prime candidate for a 6th man role on a good team. He simply doesn't do enough of anything else to be starting on a team with real aspirations, and certainly is no longer the type of player you continue to try and build around. "Team's best offensive player" is also becoming more and more of a stretch.


knicks can be a .500 ball club next year just think of how many games they lost in the last few seconds cause they couldnt get stops. at least ten games could have gone the other way. you replace rose and melo with two decent defenders like baker and thomas and you get better right away. yeah i know "we lose all those points" well how has that worked for the knicks??? i even go a step further and say if melo come off the bench in that scenario knicks make the playoffs.


LMAO...
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Re: Phil will talk today at 2:30 - WRITEUP - pg 17 

Post#1185 » by battabing10 » Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:42 pm

Tron Carter wrote:
KnickLeDime wrote:Melo is a known commodity, doesn't play ANY defense, doesn't move the ball. Who's the guy that resigned him AND gave him a NTC and now going to dump him for pennies on the dollar? Can't believe people just letting Phil slide on that.


nah you don't understand. phil is the first person to achieve full autonomy from dolan so we have to keep him but he got bullied by dolan to re-sign melo and give him a ntc.

yeah it doesn't make sense to me either but that's the logic were going with around here.


nah he admitted a couple days ago that he made the call so the dolan interfering thing is not an option. but he said that as part of the ntc deal was that melo was only allowed a certain # of time s a game to hold the ball and the rest of the time he had to pass quick and move withiut the ball. did melo hold up his side of the deal??? hellz to the no. outside of 25 dad melo games last season he has not been the player dolan wanted him to be or jax wanted him to be. and he not been the player dantoni wanted him to be or karl wanted him to be. potato head didn't even try and took the easy way but then reality set in come playoffs. and fish kind of got to him but then melo trips and that is that. so you gotta see why some knicks fans see melo as a problem. anything wrong with him being a 6 man here in new york next year?
Melo: be a great 6th man or be DBDM [deadbeat Dad Melo] (thanks blueNorange)-- Knicks move forward either way. Tatum and Monk will disappoint.
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Re: Phil will talk today at 2:30 - WRITEUP - pg 17 

Post#1186 » by dakomish23 » Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:13 pm

seren wrote:Melo resisted the system under all the coaches. It was DAntoni first, Woodson second and now triangle. People forget that 54 win team came out of injury to Amare. We didn't plan to play Melo at four. Woodson wasn't too keen on it and Melo openly hated it leading us to trade for Bargnani the following season. At some point, you do have to put the blame on the player.


Melo resisted the system under Woodson?

False. He was the system.

He said he didn't want to play the 4 AFTER the 12-13 season? Proof?

Melo openly hated it and and because of that WE WE SENT AN UNPROTECTED PICK FOR A GIGANTIC BUST. Proof?

There's plenty to complain about with this guy. The lying is just a desperation move to pile on.
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Re: Phil will talk today at 2:30 - WRITEUP - pg 17 

Post#1187 » by Knicksfan1992 » Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:17 pm

I actually hope Melo gets moved so I don't have to subject myself to reading some of the dumbest chit I've ever read about the game of basketball in my life.
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Re: Phil will talk today at 2:30 - WRITEUP - pg 17 

Post#1188 » by dakomish23 » Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:21 pm

Knicksfan1992 wrote:
Phish Tank wrote:
Bill Pidto wrote:Another act of selfishness on Melo's resume:

Y'all remember when Chauncey Billups was traded to the Nuggets that one year and resurrected the team? Was damn near an MVP candidate that season, and it was awesome to see. Of course he and Melo form a bond of sorts, and Melo could probably thank Billups a ton for coming in and handling the leadership role he obviously couldn't fill himself.

Fast forward to 2010, and it's time to force a trade to NY. Now, evidently, Billups loved it in Denver and was more than happy to be traded there. He was born and raised there, played college ball in Colorado, and by all means, did not want to leave. Not a big city guy like Melo, and he was in the twighlight of his career, but still playing well enough and feeling very comfortable with retiring as a Nugget. And this is a guy who deserves respect. Big time seniority over Melo, and a proven winner/NBA champ.

But Melo wanted NY. And he could have signed here as a FA just a few months later. We all know that. But Melo had to get his money up front, and he had to get out of Denver, asap. So f*ck you, Chauncey Billups. We're going to NY!!!

I remember Chauncey was pretty damn upset about that. Melo was happy though. Chauncey remained classy and supportive of Melo and tried to play his role for the Knicks like the pro that he always was.

Of course the Knicks were dominated in the playoffs that year. Billups went from being loved in Denver to being an afterthought in NY, and was eventually amnestied and sent away like a cheap hooker.

#stayme7o


are you serious with this or should this post have been highlighted in green?


The worse part is that someone actually responded to this garbage and called it a great post and went a long-winded rant along with it. :lol: Knicks board never change.


I'm waiting for the theories that Melo somehow obtained the cures for AIDS and Cancer but destroyed them, took the ashes and added it to an oil tanker of garbage that he brought into the ocean to dump and add to pollution. Oh and he causes global warming somehow.
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Re: Phil will talk today at 2:30 - WRITEUP - pg 17 

Post#1189 » by dakomish23 » Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:24 pm

moocow007 wrote:
knicks85 wrote:
Bill Pidto wrote:
That's what you got out of that? That we're all just George Karl fans?

Not that a player refused to adapt to ...Karl ,Woodson, Fisher, or Hornacek


?

George Karl formed his offense and the bulk of his success in Denver around Carmelo Anthony and those teams were perennial 50+ win teams. The fact that they so happen to have never gone far in the playoffs says either something about BOTH Anthony and Karl (you know team wins and team loses?) OR possibly and rather simply that there just were better teams out there in the West (and there were) RATHER than Anthony being the reason they didn't go deep in playoffs as is the common lemming driven narrative.

Woodson LOVED Anthony. Formed his offense around Anthony. Was the most successful Knicks head coach (relatively speaking) since Jeff Van Gundy with Anthony. So not sure where he refused to adapt to Woodson comes from...

Fisher? What beef did Anthony have with Fisher? Fisher didn't want to run the Triangle anymore than Anthony wanted to play in it. Fisher wanted to run an offense similar to what Karl ran in Denver because he apparently realized that his team wasn't put together to play the Triangle.

So that one outburst after an embarrassing loss to the Nets means Anthony refused to adapt to Hornacek (adapt to losing?)? So now you guys don't want him to be emotional? I thought one of the biggest complaints about him was that he doesn't get emotional? Can you guys make up your mind? Do you or do you not want him to get emotional about the losing?

The only guy that Anthony clearly "refused to adapt to" was Mike D'Antoni. And if D'Antoni was here when Jackson was here, D'Antoni would have been the first one to be let go cause D'Antoni most definitely would not have even remotely agreed to changing his system because his boss said so.


Because that's a better story. He didn't do what any coach wanted!

A load of garbage.
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Re: Phil will talk today at 2:30 - WRITEUP - pg 17 

Post#1190 » by dakomish23 » Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:28 pm

Knicksfan1992 wrote:I actually hope Melo gets moved so I don't have to subject myself to reading some of the dumbest chit I've ever read about the game of basketball in my life.


Melo now responsible for Billups' career ending and the Knicks trading for Bargs.

Last time I checked, a FO makes the decisions about who is and who is not on the roster, via trade, FA or the draft. Something change?

Surprised these guys aren't blaming him for not drafting Artest.
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Re: Phil will talk today at 2:30 - WRITEUP - pg 17 

Post#1191 » by Synciere » Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:31 pm

KP should be frustrated. Imagine if after his two years of dysfunction and losing he was perfectly fine. What would that say? He's a young star and he should be letting the front office know how he feels. It's how you maintain a healthy work environment.

Phil drafted Porzingis, Hernangomez. He signed Baker and NDour and Randle. He signed Noah, Jennings, and Lee. He traded for Rose, O'Quinn, and Holiday. In what world is this not on Phil Jackson? He says Melo holds the ball and we haven't been able to win without him and that absolves him from his three years of moves? We went from a 37 win team to a 31 win team. PR nightmares not withstanding, he's failed. How is Melo at fault for Phil's failures?
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Re: Phil will talk today at 2:30 - WRITEUP - pg 17 

Post#1192 » by Capn'O » Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:33 pm

dakomish23 wrote:WE WE SENT AN UNPROTECTED PICK


Unprotected but also subject to a pick swap via the original Melo trade. Jakob Poeltltltl was the Raps' prize from the swap. Denver got Jamal Murray with the Knicks' pick :evil:


This is why I want that Clippers 2021 pick.
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Re: Phil will talk today at 2:30 - WRITEUP - pg 17 

Post#1193 » by JohnStarksTheDunk » Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:52 pm

Handledatruth wrote:
Phish Tank wrote:this thread has gone off the rails. It needs to be locked soon


Just getting my popcorn ready for when Phil Jackson starts sending cryptic messages next year about Kristaps shooting too many threes and how that hurts the offense. I'll remember this thread. Should be fun. :roll:


Phil has a pretty long history of motivating players through criticism. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but it's who he is.
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Re: Phil will talk today at 2:30 - WRITEUP - pg 17 

Post#1194 » by dakomish23 » Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:57 pm

K-DOT wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
K-DOT wrote:Good to see you still lack the mental capacity to understand the difference between not hating everything someone does and loving everything they do

That was absolutely a shot at Melo, but it doesn't erase him saying the buck stops here. He's an arrogant prick, that's the closest we're gonna get to him admitting he was wrong.

But you also only read the buzzwords the media writes about the triangle like it's "archaic," even though I linked you to a well-written write up on why the triangle does and doesn't work, because you might actually have to use your brain to understand it. The triangle is no better or worse than any other system in place. If the players don't buy in, it's pointless. We could bring in Kerr, Budenholzer, or Pop to coach this team, but if the players didn't want to buy in, it wouldn't work, plain and simple


Are you really talking about mental capacity? When all you do is sit here and try to spin every garbage maneuver your deity makes? Are you really talking about how the triangle works? And ignroring how predictable it is and how other NBA players have spoken about how easy it is to defend?

You have nothing to say and you worship the ground a gigantic failure walks on. And when I threw your crap argument out, you resorted to insults because that's what the big mouths with nothing of substance to say, do.

Mental capacity. :lol: yeah it takes ridiculous basketball acumen to make lame excuses for failure. What a joke.

I can see you read the first line and nothing else
You didn't throw any argument out, you go "LOLNIX PHAIL" and provide no evidence to back up your arguments, and when you come up against someone who disagrees with you, you don't actually read what they say or what they write, but resort to lame straw-man arguments. I've stated multiple times what I do and don't like about Phil, even in what you quoted I said I don't love everything he does, I just don't blindly hate everything.
https://medium.com/@thedrewzoo/the-180-degree-guide-to-the-triangle-dad9bcf149a2
It takes 20 minutes to read this article, cause it actually goes into depth about the triangle, and says more than "long 2 pointers" and "post ups," but I guess that's too much for you to read
So you accuse me of ignoring players who say it's easy to defend, while you yourself ignore the many players who say it does work, cause it doesn't fit your narrative
Talking to you is like talking to a 5 year old, you only understand extremes, someone is either a gigantic failure or a deity, there is no in between. My f***ing dog understands more complex issues than you do.
So what exactly about Phil has been a gigantic failure? That he didn't turn garbage into gold in 3 years? That while he's made mistakes, we're still better off than we were before he got here?
How many times I gotta tell you that if I were in charge I'd fire Phil?


Dude you are the biggest homer I have ever witnessed. You have and will continue to make excuses for anything and everything Knicks related. You clearly are fine with the dumpster fire. Enjoy your PJax defense tour of garbage posts, irrational arguments and illogical excuses.

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Re: Phil will talk today at 2:30 - WRITEUP - pg 17 

Post#1195 » by Handledatruth » Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:06 pm

JohnStarksTheDunk wrote:
Handledatruth wrote:
Phish Tank wrote:this thread has gone off the rails. It needs to be locked soon


Just getting my popcorn ready for when Phil Jackson starts sending cryptic messages next year about Kristaps shooting too many threes and how that hurts the offense. I'll remember this thread. Should be fun. :roll:


Phil has a pretty long history of motivating players through criticism. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but it's who he is.


Except that he's the President of Basketball Operations and not the coach. The criticism holds a different weight when it comes from the mouth of a coach as opposed to someone sleepily watching a game on the sidelines. He actually undermines his coach when he does this as well.

Horny during a game: If you are open don't hesitate to shoot it KP. Be a threat out there.
KP: OK coach will do
Jackson in a Press Conference after a game: I hate when KP shoots threes
KP: Huh?
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Re: RE: Re: Phil will talk today at 2:30 - WRITEUP - pg 17 

Post#1196 » by Thugger HBC » Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:16 pm

Capn'O wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:WE WE SENT AN UNPROTECTED PICK


Unprotected but also subject to a pick swap via the original Melo trade. Jakob Poeltltltl was the Raps' prize from the swap. Denver got Jamal Murray with the Knicks' pick :evil:


This is why I want that Clippers 2021 pick.

Agreed
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Re: Phil will talk today at 2:30 - WRITEUP - pg 17 

Post#1197 » by moocow007 » Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:25 pm

KnicksGod wrote:It's the job of the GM/pres to speak publicly and he has a right to critique the roster and players in honest, though tempered, ways. He has done just that. Being the best player on a team carries some responsibilities, and one of them is being able to accept leadership, criticism and a higher standard. Melo can take it. Phil did nothing to him.


The job of the GM/pres is to have a working plan in place, to build his team and make sure that they are successful. Jackson has shown absolutely zip in that department.

It's not to engage in twitter wars, to use your mouthpieces to attack your own players, to blame everyone but himself for the mess that he himself is part of. And please don't anyone post the clip of him saying "but I am responsible" cause that's a hog wash of a slap in the face. How do you go on a long diatribe blaming everyone else for what's wrong (right or wrong) and then say "but I'm responsible". It's sheer and utter condescending and insulting the intelligence of your audience. If you are responsible then you are responsible...the end.

If Phil wants to lecture and critique, he should start by looking at himself in the mirror. To which...for someone that is so "zen", here are some very popular tidbits about 'blaming others'...

Deepak Chopra..."When you blame and criticize others, you are avoiding some truth about yourself"
Dr. Steve Maraboli..."For most people blaming others is a subconscious mechanism. In reality, the only thing in your way is YOU."
Anonymous..."To solve a problem you have to recognize your share of the responsibility. If you only blame others, you'll never solve the problem."
Anonymous..."Blaming everybody else is great until you've got nobody else around to blame but yourself."

That last one will come to fruition for Jackson if he manages to somehow trade Anthony. Well at least until he finds a new escapegoat. Likely a 7'3" version. Porzingis isn't as inexperienced or naive as you guys may think. He sees what's happening...he knows he's going to be the next escapegoat if Anthony is moved.

Also...Anthony being what he is no reason to excuse Phil Jackson.
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Re: Phil will talk today at 2:30 - WRITEUP - pg 17 

Post#1198 » by moocow007 » Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:29 pm

JohnStarksTheDunk wrote:
Handledatruth wrote:
Phish Tank wrote:this thread has gone off the rails. It needs to be locked soon


Just getting my popcorn ready for when Phil Jackson starts sending cryptic messages next year about Kristaps shooting too many threes and how that hurts the offense. I'll remember this thread. Should be fun. :roll:


Phil has a pretty long history of motivating players through criticism. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but it's who he is.


Which is fine. But it doesn't mean that he should do it. A fat person is what he is but that doesn't mean that they should continue to be what they are. But more importantly, he doesn't have Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant backing him up. He's got Carmelo Anthony, who, ironically, as it appears more and more (based on his teammates reactions and reactions of multiple parties around the league), could have been the guy to back him up (even if not to anywhere near the degree of on court success that MJ and Kobe did for him) and he managed to ostracize him.
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Re: Phil will talk today at 2:30 - WRITEUP - pg 17 

Post#1199 » by thebuzzardman » Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:31 pm

moocow007 wrote:
KnicksGod wrote:It's the job of the GM/pres to speak publicly and he has a right to critique the roster and players in honest, though tempered, ways. He has done just that. Being the best player on a team carries some responsibilities, and one of them is being able to accept leadership, criticism and a higher standard. Melo can take it. Phil did nothing to him.


The job of the GM/pres is to have a working plan in place, to build his team and make sure that they are successful. Jackson has shown absolutely zip in that department.

It's not to engage in twitter wars, to use your mouthpieces to attack your own players, to blame everyone but himself for the mess that he himself is part of. And please don't anyone post the clip of him saying "but I am responsible" cause that's a hog wash of a slap in the face. How do you go on a long diatribe blaming everyone else for what's wrong (right or wrong) and then say "but I'm responsible". It's sheer and utter condescending and insulting the intelligence of your audience. If you are responsible then you are responsible...the end.

If Phil wants to lecture and critique, he should start by looking at himself in the mirror. To which...for someone that is so "zen", here are some very popular tidbits about 'blaming others'...

Deepak Chopra..."When you blame and criticize others, you are avoiding some truth about yourself"
Dr. Steve Maraboli..."For most people blaming others is a subconscious mechanism. In reality, the only thing in your way is YOU."
Anonymous..."To solve a problem you have to recognize your share of the responsibility. If you only blame others, you'll never solve the problem."
Anonymous..."Blaming everybody else is great until you've got nobody else around to blame but yourself."

That last one will come to fruition for Jackson if he manages to somehow trade Anthony.

Also...Anthony being what he is no reason to excuse Phil Jackson.


Jackson resigned Melo and gave a NTC to that clown, so that's mistakes 1+2 right there for ol PJ.

Too much $ and years for an older player, who cares if he's good. Too much money for a guy only interested in one side of the game, the offensive side. Too much money and years for a player who does that but isn't a shot creator for others plus, in general, a ball holder. Is Melo an elite scorer? yup. But his flaws elevate the degree of difficulty for any GM to build a roster around him, not that any Knick GM has come close. Which is why Phil should have jettisoned Melo in a S&T a couple of years ago.
Phil, Melo, Rose and Noah Suck
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Re: Phil will talk today at 2:30 - WRITEUP - pg 17 

Post#1200 » by dakomish23 » Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:32 pm

moocow007 wrote:
KnicksGod wrote:It's the job of the GM/pres to speak publicly and he has a right to critique the roster and players in honest, though tempered, ways. He has done just that. Being the best player on a team carries some responsibilities, and one of them is being able to accept leadership, criticism and a higher standard. Melo can take it. Phil did nothing to him.


The job of the GM/pres is to have a working plan in place, to build his team and make sure that they are successful. Jackson has shown absolutely zip in that department.

It's not to engage in twitter wars, to use your mouthpieces to attack your own players, to blame everyone but himself for the mess that he himself is part of. And please don't anyone post the clip of him saying "but I am responsible" cause that's a hog wash of a slap in the face. How do you go on a long diatribe blaming everyone else for what's wrong (right or wrong) and then say "but I'm responsible". It's sheer and utter condescending and insulting the intelligence of your audience. If you are responsible then you are responsible...the end.

If Phil wants to lecture and critique, he should start by looking at himself in the mirror. To which...for someone that is so "zen", here are some very popular tidbits about 'blaming others'...

Deepak Chopra..."When you blame and criticize others, you are avoiding some truth about yourself"
Dr. Steve Maraboli..."For most people blaming others is a subconscious mechanism. In reality, the only thing in your way is YOU."
Anonymous..."To solve a problem you have to recognize your share of the responsibility. If you only blame others, you'll never solve the problem."
Anonymous..."Blaming everybody else is great until you've got nobody else around to blame but yourself."

That last one will come to fruition for Jackson if he manages to somehow trade Anthony. Well at least until he finds a new escapegoat. Likely a 7'3" version.

Also...Anthony being what he is no reason to excuse Phil Jackson.


The last quote is perfect considering he got rid of everyone and anyone on the roster is of his choosing. Your fault PJax. Accept it, stfu and move forward with fixing the mess of your own making.
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