OT: Kendrick Lamar DAMN.

[Mecca]

Alot of y'all dudes don't know **** about about Hip Hop. Mad dick riding in this thread and false statements.


I won't even touch on most of it. But since a BROOKLYN MC was spoken on, I have to set the record straight, and BIG not even a Fave of mine.

Biggie was crowned KING Quickly, and rightfully so, cause he rose to the top in a Jam Packed arena of ELITE MC's. He was in a true gladiator era. He had SERIOUS competition. Kendrick can't even come close to BIG's status. Kendrick is an Elite MC, and the Majority of his peers and the game are/is TRASH. Fact of the matter, if Kendrick was in the in 90's, he would be AVERAGE in Mcing, but not in a bad way. He could hold his own, but he would not be as stand out as he is now. There was way more completion from spitters of like age group, and even Legends.

Its like the Beyonce or Nicki Effect. The competition is either none or very little. Kendrick has like two peers. Thats it. Its why dudes be gassing his **** up. He is a top level Mc in a WEAK game. Its why people act like he is reinventing the wheel. People are not used to this in this era, so its like wow...this is so next level with DAMN etc. I **** with K Dot HEAVY, but he is overrated alot with the **** he be saying. Section 80, GKMC is def his best work, and its not close.I can bump those thoroughly. If you came up in the 90's, his bars are far from mind blowing these last two albums. he has spots, but overall its meh....


Its the same reason why Jordan is considered the Goat. Its the era he did it in. When you can be that dominate with HAND CHECKING and the physicality, No cat from this era really can compare.


If this Kendrick would have FULLY developed beyond his first two Joints and not become a "concept" rapper...He would be Higher on my List and more of a true contender. He was the closest thing to Nas on the west, and then went left field just like Nas did.... Until Jay lit a fire under his ass. Nas had two so so albums after Excellent 1-2 debut. Kendrick has done the same. maybe on his 5th he stops with being all over the place and trying so many different things...to be "different" and get back to the basics.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Look, I'm not here to say Kendrick is as good in terms of RAPPING skill, BAR wise as Big L, Pun, Mos Def, Chef, from a technicality, bar standpoint. I'd even argue Roc and Conway can out bar Kendrick.

BUT, when we're talking about album cohesiveness, intertwining messages and themes within his projects, Kendrick is a top tier rapper. That's my argument. Not everybody cares about that category in terms of rapper's skill, but to me, it's infinite respect for him understanding his voice as a leader in a corrupt society. All of his projects fit a central story line and theme perfectly. That's why I give Kendrick that praise.

I don't disagree with you in terms of BARS when you pit him against the greats, but Kendrick's value to hip-hop is far greater than the technical skill. That's my perspective.

[Greenie]

This is what I agree with. Drake is a hit maker/pop star. I won't deny his music being catchy or great for the bars/radio/clubs. But when it comes to the sport of RAP, the genre I fell in love with on this message board, Kendrick is in his own tier.

No.
Kendrick is far from one of the GOATS.
People are so quick to label people great. Stop.

Sorry. He's a really good rapper and that's where that ends. He's been hit or miss with his actual song making.

Biggie is the best to do it for me personally. So there's that.

What happened to you using the 'music is opinionated/perspective based'


Kendrick's released 2 classic albums already and I truly believe as time goes by DAMN will be a classic. I can't call it one yet because it's early, but this is the most fun I've had with any Kendrick album yet.

And your opinion that Biggie is the best is laughable. NOT because I don't agree, but because Kendrick has more songs to his catalogue than Biggie. I think it's Hov, Biggie, Andre, Nas, Kendrick right now.

Don't get petty because I spoke down on Drake.

Dude, I like Kendrick.
I simply don't think he's up there with the GOATS.

I go top three.

Biggie
Jay
Nas

If I add a 4th I would probably go Pac

Black Thought and Common are up there with Andre 3000 and Big Boi too(I put them up there because I like sooo much of their music).

All subjective though. So no, I'm not being petty. The only one petty is you always bringing Drake up.

[IllmaticHandler]

Alot of y'all dudes don't know **** about about Hip Hop. Mad dick riding in this thread and false statements.


I won't even touch on most of it. But since a BROOKLYN MC was spoken on, I have to set the record straight, and BIG not even a Fave of mine.

Biggie was crowned KING Quickly, and rightfully so, cause he rose to the top in a Jam Packed arena of ELITE MC's. He was in a true gladiator era. He had SERIOUS competition. Kendrick can't even come close to BIG's status. Kendrick is an Elite MC, and the Majority of his peers and the game are/is TRASH. Fact of the matter, if Kendrick was in the in 90's, he would be AVERAGE in Mcing, but not in a bad way. He could hold his own, but he would not be as stand out as he is now. There was way more completion from spitters of like age group, and even Legends.

Its like the Beyonce or Nicki Effect. The competition is either none or very little. Kendrick has like two peers. Thats it. Its why dudes be gassing his **** up. He is a top level Mc in a WEAK game. Its why people act like he is reinventing the wheel. People are not used to this in this era, so its like wow...this is so next level with DAMN etc. I **** with K Dot HEAVY, but he is overrated alot with the **** he be saying. Section 80, GKMC is def his best work, and its not close.I can bump those thoroughly. If you came up in the 90's, his bars are far from mind blowing these last two albums. he has spots, but overall its meh....


Its the same reason why Jordan is considered the Goat. Its the era he did it in. When you can be that dominate with HAND CHECKING and the physicality, No cat from this era really can compare.


If this Kendrick would have FULLY developed beyond his first two Joints and not become a "concept" rapper...He would be Higher on my List and more of a true contender. He was the closest thing to Nas on the west, and then went left field just like Nas did.... Until Jay lit a fire under his ass. Nas had two so so albums after Excellent 1-2 debut. Kendrick has done the same. maybe on his 5th he stops with being all over the place and trying so many different things...to be "different" and get back to the basics.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Look, I'm not here to say Kendrick is as good in terms of RAPPING skill, BAR wise as Big L, Pun, Mos Def, Chef, from a technicality, bar standpoint. I'd even argue Roc and Conway can out bar Kendrick.

BUT, when we're talking about album cohesiveness, intertwining messages and themes within his projects, Kendrick is a top tier rapper. That's my argument. Not everybody cares about that category in terms of rapper's skill, but to me, it's infinite respect for him understanding his voice as a leader in a corrupt society. All of his projects fit a central story line and theme perfectly. That's why I give Kendrick that praise.

I don't disagree with you in terms of BARS when you pit him against the greats, but Kendrick's value to hip-hop is far greater than the technical skill. That's my perspective.

I said he is an Elite MC regardless to whom or what. I won't take that from him. If your argument is that Kendricks voice is needed in this day and time then we agree. My thing is that all this needs to be put in perspective. Nothing he is doing is really new even in the aspect you speak of. Its just new to a this era, cause the game has been controlled to the point where a lil Yatchy can be a face of it. The reality is that there are mad dudes on Kendricks wavelength, that are from this era and are young, but the game won't let them in, to be heard on a Mass level like Drake, J cole etc etc.


Also Roc can not out Bar Kendrick. Maybe Conway can, but def not Roc. Roc is not really that skilled on the mic even thoe he is nice. He is more of a "swag" rapper who can spit. He is very basic lyrically to me.He is like Westside Gunn.... Dope Music, but nothing earth shattering lyrically. He can be bodied quiet easily skill for skill by a bunch of dudes. 90's Roc Marciano is much better Skill Wise than 2000's Roc. Kendrick is def much more intricate than Roc. You need a Sky Zoo Level Mc to hang with Kendrick.


Listen to this and you will see how much he has changed his Flow since he was younger. Roc Marciano.

Watch on YouTube

[Greenie]

Alot of y'all dudes don't know **** about about Hip Hop. Mad dick riding in this thread and false statements.


I won't even touch on most of it. But since a BROOKLYN MC was spoken on, I have to set the record straight, and BIG not even a Fave of mine.

Biggie was crowned KING Quickly, and rightfully so, cause he rose to the top in a Jam Packed arena of ELITE MC's. He was in a true gladiator era. He had SERIOUS competition. Kendrick can't even come close to BIG's status. Kendrick is an Elite MC, and the Majority of his peers and the game are/is TRASH. Fact of the matter, if Kendrick was in the in 90's, he would be AVERAGE in Mcing, but not in a bad way. He could hold his own, but he would not be as stand out as he is now. There was way more completion from spitters of like age group, and even Legends.

Its like the Beyonce or Nicki Effect. The competition is either none or very little. Kendrick has like two peers. Thats it. Its why dudes be gassing his **** up. He is a top level Mc in a WEAK game. Its why people act like he is reinventing the wheel. People are not used to this in this era, so its like wow...this is so next level with DAMN etc. I **** with K Dot HEAVY, but he is overrated alot with the **** he be saying. Section 80, GKMC is def his best work, and its not close.I can bump those thoroughly. If you came up in the 90's, his bars are far from mind blowing these last two albums. he has spots, but overall its meh....


Its the same reason why Jordan is considered the Goat. Its the era he did it in. When you can be that dominate with HAND CHECKING and the physicality, No cat from this era really can compare.


If this Kendrick would have FULLY developed beyond his first two Joints and not become a "concept" rapper...He would be Higher on my List and more of a true contender. He was the closest thing to Nas on the west, and then went left field just like Nas did.... Until Jay lit a fire under his ass. Nas had two so so albums after Excellent 1-2 debut. Kendrick has done the same. maybe on his 5th he stops with being all over the place and trying so many different things...to be "different" and get back to the basics.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Look, I'm not here to say Kendrick is as good in terms of RAPPING skill, BAR wise as Big L, Pun, Mos Def, Chef, from a technicality, bar standpoint. I'd even argue Roc and Conway can out bar Kendrick.

BUT, when we're talking about album cohesiveness, intertwining messages and themes within his projects, Kendrick is a top tier rapper. That's my argument. Not everybody cares about that category in terms of rapper's skill, but to me, it's infinite respect for him understanding his voice as a leader in a corrupt society. All of his projects fit a central story line and theme perfectly. That's why I give Kendrick that praise.

I don't disagree with you in terms of BARS when you pit him against the greats, but Kendrick's value to hip-hop is far greater than the technical skill. That's my perspective.

And that's fine.

...but Mecca, you do understand that's kinda my argument for Drake too right?
I've never put him with the greats, but his ability to craft a song pleasing to the ear is great. That's his lane.

He's talented, can hold his own skill wise, he writes(he's written for others) and he can craft a song(many rappers fall when it comes to song making and that's why the don't blow up).

He's actually a lot like Beyonce in that respect. Nah, she's not Whitney with the singing, but she can damn sure sing, craft a song, dance, perform and so on and so on.

It's a total package type thing.

[Mecca]

Alot of y'all dudes don't know **** about about Hip Hop. Mad dick riding in this thread and false statements.


I won't even touch on most of it. But since a BROOKLYN MC was spoken on, I have to set the record straight, and BIG not even a Fave of mine.

Biggie was crowned KING Quickly, and rightfully so, cause he rose to the top in a Jam Packed arena of ELITE MC's. He was in a true gladiator era. He had SERIOUS competition. Kendrick can't even come close to BIG's status. Kendrick is an Elite MC, and the Majority of his peers and the game are/is TRASH. Fact of the matter, if Kendrick was in the in 90's, he would be AVERAGE in Mcing, but not in a bad way. He could hold his own, but he would not be as stand out as he is now. There was way more completion from spitters of like age group, and even Legends.

Its like the Beyonce or Nicki Effect. The competition is either none or very little. Kendrick has like two peers. Thats it. Its why dudes be gassing his **** up. He is a top level Mc in a WEAK game. Its why people act like he is reinventing the wheel. People are not used to this in this era, so its like wow...this is so next level with DAMN etc. I **** with K Dot HEAVY, but he is overrated alot with the **** he be saying. Section 80, GKMC is def his best work, and its not close.I can bump those thoroughly. If you came up in the 90's, his bars are far from mind blowing these last two albums. he has spots, but overall its meh....


Its the same reason why Jordan is considered the Goat. Its the era he did it in. When you can be that dominate with HAND CHECKING and the physicality, No cat from this era really can compare.


If this Kendrick would have FULLY developed beyond his first two Joints and not become a "concept" rapper...He would be Higher on my List and more of a true contender. He was the closest thing to Nas on the west, and then went left field just like Nas did.... Until Jay lit a fire under his ass. Nas had two so so albums after Excellent 1-2 debut. Kendrick has done the same. maybe on his 5th he stops with being all over the place and trying so many different things...to be "different" and get back to the basics.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Look, I'm not here to say Kendrick is as good in terms of RAPPING skill, BAR wise as Big L, Pun, Mos Def, Chef, from a technicality, bar standpoint. I'd even argue Roc and Conway can out bar Kendrick.

BUT, when we're talking about album cohesiveness, intertwining messages and themes within his projects, Kendrick is a top tier rapper. That's my argument. Not everybody cares about that category in terms of rapper's skill, but to me, it's infinite respect for him understanding his voice as a leader in a corrupt society. All of his projects fit a central story line and theme perfectly. That's why I give Kendrick that praise.

I don't disagree with you in terms of BARS when you pit him against the greats, but Kendrick's value to hip-hop is far greater than the technical skill. That's my perspective.

I said he is an Elite MC regardless to whom or what. I won't take that from him. If your argument is that Kendricks voice is needed in this day and time then we agree. My thing is that all this needs to be put in perspective. Nothing he is doing is really new even in the aspect you speak of. Its just new to a this era, cause the game has been controlled to the point where a lil Yatchy can be a face of it. The reality is that there are mad dudes on Kendricks wavelength, that are from this era and are young, but the game won't let them in, to be heard on a Mass level like Drake, J cole etc etc.


Also Roc can not out Bar Kendrick. Maybe Conway can, but def not Roc. Roc is not really that skilled on the mic even thoe he is nice. He is more of a "swag" rapper who can spit. He is very basic lyrically to me.He is like Westside Gunn.... Dope Music, but nothing earth shattering lyrically. He can be bodied quiet easily skill for skill by a bunch of dudes. 90's Roc Marciano is much better Skill Wise than 2000's Roc. Kendrick is def much more intricate than Roc. You need a Sky Zoo Level Mc to hang with Kendrick.


Listen to this and you will see how much he has changed his Flow since he was younger. Roc Marciano.

Watch on YouTube

I'm at work, so I will later. I'd agree that Roc is a swag rapper, I do think he say some slick sh*t lyrically though.

Skyzoo is one of my favorite rappers of all time, so that's a good one. His project with Apollo Brown was one of my favorites last year.


J. Cole has the same positive voice as Kendrick, but is no where near as skilled or progressive in his album making ability as Kendrick, and this is coming from someone who rode with Cole early in his career.

I know what you're saying in terms of wanting Kendrick to go back to 'K. Dot,' but I'd argue that DAMN was way more K. Dot then his last few projects. DNA was a flex of his ability to rip up a beat. I haven't connected with a track like FEAR in a minute. Then, you literally have to write think pieces on his album to be able to decipher the message.

Like on BLOOD. Right now, nobody knows the answer to who the blind lady is. My theory was that it symbolized Kendrick losing his way, and throughout the album he hits on all of his current emotions in order to find his way. Then on DUCKWORTH you realize that the album could get played in reverse, and a new story emerges. Like that's what I love about Kendrick. He makes you decode his music. He makes you converse with your boys over what story he's painting. I'm 23, so this is what I'm growing up with ill, so you can't really blame me for having a nostalgic love for his music. He's the one putting on right now.

[3toheadmelo]

top 3 for me is
Pac
Big
Nas

[Mecca]

Alot of y'all dudes don't know **** about about Hip Hop. Mad dick riding in this thread and false statements.


I won't even touch on most of it. But since a BROOKLYN MC was spoken on, I have to set the record straight, and BIG not even a Fave of mine.

Biggie was crowned KING Quickly, and rightfully so, cause he rose to the top in a Jam Packed arena of ELITE MC's. He was in a true gladiator era. He had SERIOUS competition. Kendrick can't even come close to BIG's status. Kendrick is an Elite MC, and the Majority of his peers and the game are/is TRASH. Fact of the matter, if Kendrick was in the in 90's, he would be AVERAGE in Mcing, but not in a bad way. He could hold his own, but he would not be as stand out as he is now. There was way more completion from spitters of like age group, and even Legends.

Its like the Beyonce or Nicki Effect. The competition is either none or very little. Kendrick has like two peers. Thats it. Its why dudes be gassing his **** up. He is a top level Mc in a WEAK game. Its why people act like he is reinventing the wheel. People are not used to this in this era, so its like wow...this is so next level with DAMN etc. I **** with K Dot HEAVY, but he is overrated alot with the **** he be saying. Section 80, GKMC is def his best work, and its not close.I can bump those thoroughly. If you came up in the 90's, his bars are far from mind blowing these last two albums. he has spots, but overall its meh....


Its the same reason why Jordan is considered the Goat. Its the era he did it in. When you can be that dominate with HAND CHECKING and the physicality, No cat from this era really can compare.


If this Kendrick would have FULLY developed beyond his first two Joints and not become a "concept" rapper...He would be Higher on my List and more of a true contender. He was the closest thing to Nas on the west, and then went left field just like Nas did.... Until Jay lit a fire under his ass. Nas had two so so albums after Excellent 1-2 debut. Kendrick has done the same. maybe on his 5th he stops with being all over the place and trying so many different things...to be "different" and get back to the basics.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Look, I'm not here to say Kendrick is as good in terms of RAPPING skill, BAR wise as Big L, Pun, Mos Def, Chef, from a technicality, bar standpoint. I'd even argue Roc and Conway can out bar Kendrick.

BUT, when we're talking about album cohesiveness, intertwining messages and themes within his projects, Kendrick is a top tier rapper. That's my argument. Not everybody cares about that category in terms of rapper's skill, but to me, it's infinite respect for him understanding his voice as a leader in a corrupt society. All of his projects fit a central story line and theme perfectly. That's why I give Kendrick that praise.

I don't disagree with you in terms of BARS when you pit him against the greats, but Kendrick's value to hip-hop is far greater than the technical skill. That's my perspective.

And that's fine.

...but Mecca, you do understand that's kinda my argument for Drake too right?
I've never put him with the greats, but his ability to craft a song pleasing to the ear is great. That's his lane.

He's talented, can hold his own skill wise, he writes(he's written for others) and he can craft a song(many rappers fall when it comes to song making and that's why the don't blow up).

He's actually a lot like Beyonce in that respect. Nah, she's not Whitney with the singing, but she can damn sure sing, craft a song, dance, perform and so on and so on.

It's a total package type thing.

I don't disagree with anything you said, BUT just because Drake doesn't belong to be with the greats, doesn't mean Kendrick doesn't neither. Kendrick would excel in any generation. His project cohesiveness is insane. He makes classic projects. He's not a hit maker per say. He doesn't have a Juicy, but he's collecting classics. TPAB is a classic to ME, because of the way he influenced the culture and how he used it to educate society. The sound wasn't for everyone, but it's timeless because of that.

[Mecca]

top 3 for me is
Pac
Big
Nas

I wrote a 70 page thesis for my college on why Tupac was a modern day messenger for our society. Technical wise, as a straight rapper, idk if he's even top 10.

[Greenie]

Look, I'm not here to say Kendrick is as good in terms of RAPPING skill, BAR wise as Big L, Pun, Mos Def, Chef, from a technicality, bar standpoint. I'd even argue Roc and Conway can out bar Kendrick.

BUT, when we're talking about album cohesiveness, intertwining messages and themes within his projects, Kendrick is a top tier rapper. That's my argument. Not everybody cares about that category in terms of rapper's skill, but to me, it's infinite respect for him understanding his voice as a leader in a corrupt society. All of his projects fit a central story line and theme perfectly. That's why I give Kendrick that praise.

I don't disagree with you in terms of BARS when you pit him against the greats, but Kendrick's value to hip-hop is far greater than the technical skill. That's my perspective.

And that's fine.

...but Mecca, you do understand that's kinda my argument for Drake too right?
I've never put him with the greats, but his ability to craft a song pleasing to the ear is great. That's his lane.

He's talented, can hold his own skill wise, he writes(he's written for others) and he can craft a song(many rappers fall when it comes to song making and that's why the don't blow up).

He's actually a lot like Beyonce in that respect. Nah, she's not Whitney with the singing, but she can damn sure sing, craft a song, dance, perform and so on and so on.

It's a total package type thing.

I don't disagree with anything you said, BUT just because Drake doesn't belong to be with the greats, doesn't mean Kendrick doesn't neither. Kendrick would excel in any generation. His project cohesiveness is insane. He makes classic projects. He's not a hit maker per say. He doesn't have a Juicy, but he's collecting classics. TPAB is a classic to ME, because of the way he influenced the culture and how he used it to educate society. The sound wasn't for everyone, but it's timeless because of that.

Of course not.

I judge all artists individually.

[Greenie]

top 3 for me is
Pac
Big
Nas

I wrote a 70 page thesis for my college on why Tupac was a modern day messenger for our society. Technical wise, as a straight rapper, idk if he's even top 10.

Pac is up there for me.

[Greenie]

Alot of y'all dudes don't know **** about about Hip Hop. Mad dick riding in this thread and false statements.


I won't even touch on most of it. But since a BROOKLYN MC was spoken on, I have to set the record straight, and BIG not even a Fave of mine.

Biggie was crowned KING Quickly, and rightfully so, cause he rose to the top in a Jam Packed arena of ELITE MC's. He was in a true gladiator era. He had SERIOUS competition. Kendrick can't even come close to BIG's status. Kendrick is an Elite MC, and the Majority of his peers and the game are/is TRASH. Fact of the matter, if Kendrick was in the in 90's, he would be AVERAGE in Mcing, but not in a bad way. He could hold his own, but he would not be as stand out as he is now. There was way more completion from spitters of like age group, and even Legends.

Its like the Beyonce or Nicki Effect. The competition is either none or very little. Kendrick has like two peers. Thats it. Its why dudes be gassing his **** up. He is a top level Mc in a WEAK game. Its why people act like he is reinventing the wheel. People are not used to this in this era, so its like wow...this is so next level with DAMN etc. I **** with K Dot HEAVY, but he is overrated alot with the **** he be saying. Section 80, GKMC is def his best work, and its not close.I can bump those thoroughly. If you came up in the 90's, his bars are far from mind blowing these last two albums. he has spots, but overall its meh....


Its the same reason why Jordan is considered the Goat. Its the era he did it in. When you can be that dominate with HAND CHECKING and the physicality, No cat from this era really can compare.


If this Kendrick would have FULLY developed beyond his first two Joints and not become a "concept" rapper...He would be Higher on my List and more of a true contender. He was the closest thing to Nas on the west, and then went left field just like Nas did.... Until Jay lit a fire under his ass. Nas had two so so albums after Excellent 1-2 debut. Kendrick has done the same. maybe on his 5th he stops with being all over the place and trying so many different things...to be "different" and get back to the basics.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

The game has changed bro (for better or for worse). Kendrick is doing what's going to get him the most bread. Trump getting elected in a weird way was the best thing that could have happened for Kendrick.... him and Cole own that "conscious" rapper lane in the mainstream for a while now and people want to hear what they have to say about that chit especially with the way racial tensions have escalated over the past few years. Kenny wouldn't be gassed up as much as he is if people (specifically white) didn't crown him as the most "important" rapper of our time but that's a whole other can of worms I don't feel like going into....Basically Kendrick is like a more coherent Eminem to me. That's a damn good rapper but one of the GOATS nah miss me with that. TPAB wasn't really that good to me... DAMN is ok not bad not great. GKMC is a classic. And section 80 was just ok as well. That's not a GOAT based on my preferences

Basically

[3toheadmelo]

top 3 for me is
Pac
Big
Nas

I wrote a 70 page thesis for my college on why Tupac was a modern day messenger for our society. Technical wise, as a straight rapper, idk if he's even top 10.

pac was a poet... that's what makes him the GOAT imo
dude was saying schit that was unheard of back then. he's one of a kind.

[Mecca]

Alot of y'all dudes don't know **** about about Hip Hop. Mad dick riding in this thread and false statements.


I won't even touch on most of it. But since a BROOKLYN MC was spoken on, I have to set the record straight, and BIG not even a Fave of mine.

Biggie was crowned KING Quickly, and rightfully so, cause he rose to the top in a Jam Packed arena of ELITE MC's. He was in a true gladiator era. He had SERIOUS competition. Kendrick can't even come close to BIG's status. Kendrick is an Elite MC, and the Majority of his peers and the game are/is TRASH. Fact of the matter, if Kendrick was in the in 90's, he would be AVERAGE in Mcing, but not in a bad way. He could hold his own, but he would not be as stand out as he is now. There was way more completion from spitters of like age group, and even Legends.

Its like the Beyonce or Nicki Effect. The competition is either none or very little. Kendrick has like two peers. Thats it. Its why dudes be gassing his **** up. He is a top level Mc in a WEAK game. Its why people act like he is reinventing the wheel. People are not used to this in this era, so its like wow...this is so next level with DAMN etc. I **** with K Dot HEAVY, but he is overrated alot with the **** he be saying. Section 80, GKMC is def his best work, and its not close.I can bump those thoroughly. If you came up in the 90's, his bars are far from mind blowing these last two albums. he has spots, but overall its meh....


Its the same reason why Jordan is considered the Goat. Its the era he did it in. When you can be that dominate with HAND CHECKING and the physicality, No cat from this era really can compare.


If this Kendrick would have FULLY developed beyond his first two Joints and not become a "concept" rapper...He would be Higher on my List and more of a true contender. He was the closest thing to Nas on the west, and then went left field just like Nas did.... Until Jay lit a fire under his ass. Nas had two so so albums after Excellent 1-2 debut. Kendrick has done the same. maybe on his 5th he stops with being all over the place and trying so many different things...to be "different" and get back to the basics.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

The game has changed bro (for better or for worse). Kendrick is doing what's going to get him the most bread. Trump getting elected in a weird way was the best thing that could have happened for Kendrick.... him and Cole own that "conscious" rapper lane in the mainstream for a while now and people want to hear what they have to say about that chit especially with the way racial tensions have escalated over the past few years. Kenny wouldn't be gassed up as much as he is if people (specifically white) didn't crown him as the most "important" rapper of our time but that's a whole other can of worms I don't feel like going into....Basically Kendrick is like a more coherent Eminem to me. That's a damn good rapper but one of the GOATS nah miss me with that. TPAB wasn't really that good to me... DAMN is ok not bad not great. GKMC is a classic. And section 80 was just ok as well. That's not a GOAT based on my preferences

On the contrary, I'd argue TPAB was his most influential work, and it's too early to rank DAMN, although it's the most fun I've had with a Kendrick album.

Eminem never really had classic projects if you ask me. He don't have a GKMC.

This is where hip-hop gets difficult to debate because there are no statistics to measure success with and everyone's opinion on hip-hop is different.

[Mecca]

top 3 for me is
Pac
Big
Nas

I wrote a 70 page thesis for my college on why Tupac was a modern day messenger for our society. Technical wise, as a straight rapper, idk if he's even top 10.

pac was a poet... that's what makes him the GOAT imo
dude was saying schit that was unheard of back then. he's one of a kind.

That's why when people ask who I would have dinner with if I can with anyone, I always say Pac first. As a person, he's one of my favorite people in the world. His role as an activist, poet, and actor are where he really shined. Music was just one way to express that.

[EnigmatiC]

Alot of y'all dudes don't know **** about about Hip Hop. Mad dick riding in this thread and false statements.


I won't even touch on most of it. But since a BROOKLYN MC was spoken on, I have to set the record straight, and BIG not even a Fave of mine.

Biggie was crowned KING Quickly, and rightfully so, cause he rose to the top in a Jam Packed arena of ELITE MC's. He was in a true gladiator era. He had SERIOUS competition. Kendrick can't even come close to BIG's status. Kendrick is an Elite MC, and the Majority of his peers and the game are/is TRASH. Fact of the matter, if Kendrick was in the in 90's, he would be AVERAGE in Mcing, but not in a bad way. He could hold his own, but he would not be as stand out as he is now. There was way more completion from spitters of like age group, and even Legends.

Its like the Beyonce or Nicki Effect. The competition is either none or very little. Kendrick has like two peers. Thats it. Its why dudes be gassing his **** up. He is a top level Mc in a WEAK game. Its why people act like he is reinventing the wheel. People are not used to this in this era, so its like wow...this is so next level with DAMN etc. I **** with K Dot HEAVY, but he is overrated alot with the **** he be saying. Section 80, GKMC is def his best work, and its not close.I can bump those thoroughly. If you came up in the 90's, his bars are far from mind blowing these last two albums. he has spots, but overall its meh....


Its the same reason why Jordan is considered the Goat. Its the era he did it in. When you can be that dominate with HAND CHECKING and the physicality, No cat from this era really can compare.


If this Kendrick would have FULLY developed beyond his first two Joints and not become a "concept" rapper...He would be Higher on my List and more of a true contender. He was the closest thing to Nas on the west, and then went left field just like Nas did.... Until Jay lit a fire under his ass. Nas had two so so albums after Excellent 1-2 debut. Kendrick has done the same. maybe on his 5th he stops with being all over the place and trying so many different things...to be "different" and get back to the basics.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

The game has changed bro (for better or for worse). Kendrick is doing what's going to get him the most bread. Trump getting elected in a weird way was the best thing that could have happened for Kendrick.... him and Cole own that "conscious" rapper lane in the mainstream for a while now and people want to hear what they have to say about that chit especially with the way racial tensions have escalated over the past few years. Kenny wouldn't be gassed up as much as he is if people (specifically white) didn't crown him as the most "important" rapper of our time but that's a whole other can of worms I don't feel like going into....Basically Kendrick is like a more coherent Eminem to me. That's a damn good rapper but one of the GOATS nah miss me with that. TPAB wasn't really that good to me... DAMN is ok not bad not great. GKMC is a classic. And section 80 was just ok as well. That's not a GOAT based on my preferences

On the contrary, I'd argue TPAB was his most influential work, and it's too early to rank DAMN, although it's the most fun I've had with a Kendrick album.

Eminem never really had classic projects if you ask me. He don't have a GKMC.

This is where hip-hop gets difficult to debate because there are no statistics to measure success with and everyone's opinion on hip-hop is different.

That's what makes art beautiful. There is never any right or wrong.

[Mecca]

No.
Kendrick is far from one of the GOATS.
People are so quick to label people great. Stop.

Sorry. He's a really good rapper and that's where that ends. He's been hit or miss with his actual song making.

Biggie is the best to do it for me personally. So there's that.

What happened to you using the 'music is opinionated/perspective based'


Kendrick's released 2 classic albums already and I truly believe as time goes by DAMN will be a classic. I can't call it one yet because it's early, but this is the most fun I've had with any Kendrick album yet.

And your opinion that Biggie is the best is laughable. NOT because I don't agree, but because Kendrick has more songs to his catalogue than Biggie. I think it's Hov, Biggie, Andre, Nas, Kendrick right now.

Don't get petty because I spoke down on Drake.

Dude, I like Kendrick.
I simply don't think he's up there with the GOATS.

I go top three.

Biggie
Jay
Nas

If I add a 4th I would probably go Pac

Black Thought and Common are up there with Andre 3000 and Big Boi too(I put them up there because I like sooo much of their music).

All subjective though. So no, I'm not being petty. The only one petty is you always bringing Drake up.

I never brought Drake into this convo, though. I chimed in when others did to add my perspective.

Black Thought is top 10 for sure, but when you rank MC's do you do it on a project basis or sheer skill? Skill wise Thought might be top 5, but Kendrick's projects are why I have him so high. I won't argue that he's the GOAT, but he deserves to at least be in the conversation.

[Greenie]

What happened to you using the 'music is opinionated/perspective based'


Kendrick's released 2 classic albums already and I truly believe as time goes by DAMN will be a classic. I can't call it one yet because it's early, but this is the most fun I've had with any Kendrick album yet.

And your opinion that Biggie is the best is laughable. NOT because I don't agree, but because Kendrick has more songs to his catalogue than Biggie. I think it's Hov, Biggie, Andre, Nas, Kendrick right now.

Don't get petty because I spoke down on Drake.

Dude, I like Kendrick.
I simply don't think he's up there with the GOATS.

I go top three.

Biggie
Jay
Nas

If I add a 4th I would probably go Pac

Black Thought and Common are up there with Andre 3000 and Big Boi too(I put them up there because I like sooo much of their music).

All subjective though. So no, I'm not being petty. The only one petty is you always bringing Drake up.

I never brought Drake into this convo, though. I chimed in when others did to add my perspective.

Black Thought is top 10 for sure, but when you rank MC's do you do it on a project basis or sheer skill? Skill wise Thought might be top 5, but Kendrick's projects are why I have him so high. I won't argue that he's the GOAT, but he deserves to at least be in the conversation.

My bad then.

A little of both. More so musically.

[Knicksfan1992]

Alot of y'all dudes don't know **** about about Hip Hop. Mad dick riding in this thread and false statements.


I won't even touch on most of it. But since a BROOKLYN MC was spoken on, I have to set the record straight, and BIG not even a Fave of mine.

Biggie was crowned KING Quickly, and rightfully so, cause he rose to the top in a Jam Packed arena of ELITE MC's. He was in a true gladiator era. He had SERIOUS competition. Kendrick can't even come close to BIG's status. Kendrick is an Elite MC, and the Majority of his peers and the game are/is TRASH. Fact of the matter, if Kendrick was in the in 90's, he would be AVERAGE in Mcing, but not in a bad way. He could hold his own, but he would not be as stand out as he is now. There was way more completion from spitters of like age group, and even Legends.

Its like the Beyonce or Nicki Effect. The competition is either none or very little. Kendrick has like two peers. Thats it. Its why dudes be gassing his **** up. He is a top level Mc in a WEAK game. Its why people act like he is reinventing the wheel. People are not used to this in this era, so its like wow...this is so next level with DAMN etc. I **** with K Dot HEAVY, but he is overrated alot with the **** he be saying. Section 80, GKMC is def his best work, and its not close.I can bump those thoroughly. If you came up in the 90's, his bars are far from mind blowing these last two albums. he has spots, but overall its meh....


Its the same reason why Jordan is considered the Goat. Its the era he did it in. When you can be that dominate with HAND CHECKING and the physicality, No cat from this era really can compare.


If this Kendrick would have FULLY developed beyond his first two Joints and not become a "concept" rapper...He would be Higher on my List and more of a true contender. He was the closest thing to Nas on the west, and then went left field just like Nas did.... Until Jay lit a fire under his ass. Nas had two so so albums after Excellent 1-2 debut. Kendrick has done the same. maybe on his 5th he stops with being all over the place and trying so many different things...to be "different" and get back to the basics.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

The game has changed bro (for better or for worse). Kendrick is doing what's going to get him the most bread. Trump getting elected in a weird way was the best thing that could have happened for Kendrick.... him and Cole own that "conscious" rapper lane in the mainstream for a while now and people want to hear what they have to say about that chit especially with the way racial tensions have escalated over the past few years. Kenny wouldn't be gassed up as much as he is if people (specifically white) didn't crown him as the most "important" rapper of our time but that's a whole other can of worms I don't feel like going into....Basically Kendrick is like a more coherent Eminem to me. That's a damn good rapper but one of the GOATS nah miss me with that. TPAB wasn't really that good to me... DAMN is ok not bad not great. GKMC is a classic. And section 80 was just ok as well. That's not a GOAT based on my preferences

On the contrary, I'd argue TPAB was his most influential work, and it's too early to rank DAMN, although it's the most fun I've had with a Kendrick album.

Eminem never really had classic projects if you ask me. He don't have a GKMC.

This is where hip-hop gets difficult to debate because there are no statistics to measure success with and everyone's opinion on hip-hop is different.

I feel ya. TPAB is very much critically acclaimed, but I always felt that was more due to the messages he was trying to convey moreso than the actual music. I thought the music was very hit or miss on that tape. A lot of it was really rigid and hard to listen to after a while and I thought the skits at the end leading to Pac was corny after the first time you hear it. Again, I understand that he was trying to make you feel the discomfort he's trying to convey, but I don't listen to music to feel that way. I respect it I just don't like it. I wasn't comparing him to Eminem as far as credentials go. I'm not big on Em outside of his few stand out songs and of course his features. Just stylistically, I think they can be very similar at times with Kenny having the more coherent message and less shock value.

[j4remi]

Watch on YouTube

This does a good job laying out the argument for Kung Fu Kenny. That Rude Jude convo is actually on point as hell too, both bring up strong points and perspectives without being disrespectful. Just two cats with different views.

On the GOAT debate; I think how the video above concludes is the best question to pose. Other than personal preference, is there any objective reason to say he's not in the convo? Best of his era? Check; critical success? Check; Commercial success? Check; Acknowledged by peers? Check; there aren't too many strong objective measures but he's hit the benchmarks both critically and commercially. Add the co-signs and the fact that comparisons for dude HAVE to skip this era due to lack of valid competition...I think it's a lot easier to argue that he's made his way into the conversation than against it.

I get the eras argument, this isn't a competitive era. But Kendrick's got a catalogue that holds his own starting with Section 80 and filling in the gaps with his mixtapes. There aren't many catalogues that can stand up to his. I think TPAB ends up being his stand out for cultural impact. The fact that his music became the marching themes for a movement is something that gives him a place where his art is now being acknowledged by academia. You see a similar debate with Demetrius Johnson in MMA. Dude is P4P the best today and the most dominant champion ever by objective measures (most title defenses ever) but due to lack of competition; placing him on the All Time Greats list is damn near impossible. What is hard to argue however, is that the dude belongs in the conversation. How high or low comes down to your perspective on a bunch of different variables.

[Mecca]

The game has changed bro (for better or for worse). Kendrick is doing what's going to get him the most bread. Trump getting elected in a weird way was the best thing that could have happened for Kendrick.... him and Cole own that "conscious" rapper lane in the mainstream for a while now and people want to hear what they have to say about that chit especially with the way racial tensions have escalated over the past few years. Kenny wouldn't be gassed up as much as he is if people (specifically white) didn't crown him as the most "important" rapper of our time but that's a whole other can of worms I don't feel like going into....Basically Kendrick is like a more coherent Eminem to me. That's a damn good rapper but one of the GOATS nah miss me with that. TPAB wasn't really that good to me... DAMN is ok not bad not great. GKMC is a classic. And section 80 was just ok as well. That's not a GOAT based on my preferences

On the contrary, I'd argue TPAB was his most influential work, and it's too early to rank DAMN, although it's the most fun I've had with a Kendrick album.

Eminem never really had classic projects if you ask me. He don't have a GKMC.

This is where hip-hop gets difficult to debate because there are no statistics to measure success with and everyone's opinion on hip-hop is different.

I feel ya. TPAB is very much critically acclaimed, but I always felt that was more due to the messages he was trying to convey moreso than the actual music. I thought the music was very hit or miss on that tape. A lot of it was really rigid and hard to listen to after a while and I thought the skits at the end leading to Pac was corny after the first time you hear it. Again, I understand that he was trying to make you feel the discomfort he's trying to convey, but I don't listen to music to feel that way. I respect it I just don't like it. I wasn't comparing him to Eminem as far as credentials go. I'm not big on Em outside of his few stand out songs and of course his features. Just stylistically, I think they can be very similar at times with Kenny having the more coherent message and less shock value.

Yeah, if you listen to Kendrick, you can hear his big 3-4 influences were Eminem, Cube, Pac, and Hova. From Em's voice/character changing, Cube's pen/grit, Pac's voice, and Hova's conversational type of rapping.

I understand TPAB isn't the easiest listen on the ears, and I know a ton of people that didn't love the project, but yeah, in terms of concept, it blew my mind. I've said this a few times, but it was essentially him explaining Plato's 'Cave Allegory' theory being the hood. That we only see what we know, and we're all a product of our environment. Sonically, it's not as fun of a listen, but you hear his pain, his suffering, his knowledge. It was a ballsy project that I respect more than anything.