The DRose Is Awful Offseason Thread

N8isScofield · Post #101 » by **N8isScofield** » Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:47 pm

I just hope it's over for him here. Yeah he can still get to the basket and pull off the occasional highlight play but you can't beat elite teams with a PG who is more willing to share his girl than the ball.

whocares1 · Post #102 » by **whocares1** » Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:00 pm

N8isScofield wrote:I just hope it's over for him here. Yeah he can still get to the basket and pull off the occasional highlight play but you can't beat elite teams with a PG who is more willing to share his girl than the ball.

That's why he shouldn't play point, doesn't mean he shouldn't play at all.

fresko024 · Post #103 » by **fresko024** » Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:28 pm

Rose stinks.

Honestly, I place all of the blame on Rose. As bad as the Noah signing was, we had depth at that position with WHG and KOQ.

Unfortunately, we had Rose, who can score but couldn't pass or defend, playing 35 mpg. He didn't help KP or Melo. Between him and Melo, it was impossible to run an offensive system centered around ball movement...

Greenie · Post #104 » by **Greenie** » Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:47 pm

fresko024 wrote:Rose stinks.

Honestly, I place all of the blame on Rose. As bad as the Noah signing was, we had depth at that position with WHG and KOQ.

Unfortunately, we had Rose, who can score but couldn't pass or defend, playing 35 mpg. He didn't help KP or Melo. Between him and Melo, it was impossible to run an offensive system centered around ball movement...

The funny thing is that Melo proved he can play with ball movement and is a willing passer. Rose has not. When Fisher was here Melo played within the system. That was just last year.

Jeff took the ball out of Melo's hands unless he was in iso and gave it to Rose and Jennings. Jennings was a much more willing passer than Rose and thus, we played better in the beginning of the year with BJ running point.

Very few called P&R's with Melo. Melo had to call for them in his isolation. We would have the PG do one of two things:

Run a P&R
Dump into the mid post for either iso Melo or KP.

The dumbest offense I have ever witnessed. Once in a while we would have Lee run a horn set.

Jeff was straight atrocious as a coach this past year. He didn't maximize Melo and KP at all.

Melo and KP looked to have the potential to be lethal under Fisher. They had a two game going on between them last year. They leaned on each other last year. WTF happened?

N8isScofield · Post #105 » by **N8isScofield** » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:50 pm

whocares1 wrote:
N8isScofield wrote:I just hope it's over for him here. Yeah he can still get to the basket and pull off the occasional highlight play but you can't beat elite teams with a PG who is more willing to share his girl than the ball.

That's why he shouldn't play point, doesn't mean he shouldn't play at all.

Uhh he shouldn't play for us at all. If you're playing a position other than point then you better be able to defend it.

NYKBaller · Post #106 » by **NYKBaller** » Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:30 am

I wouldn't judge him until he's in a pick n roll offense, he's probably way more productive when used properly

FKF · Post #107 » by **FKF** » Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:50 am

Greenie wrote:
FKF wrote:
Greenie wrote:The fuq?
The lotto pick could end up #10 and you gave away assets for a rental of Rose who doesn't fit with Melo or KP. Win with Rose or else?

If that's Phil playing chess, he needs to stop because he's horrible at it.

Melo played chess first by meeting competition when he was a FA, and commanding a five years offer including an NTC.

The Lakers were right there to pair Melo and Kobe, and the Knicks had to surrender all their guns to keep Melo.

In retrospect, Phil should just have let Melo walk to LA, but the media and fans like you would have killed him for that.

First off, you don't know **** about me.
I was cool letting Melo walk if we were going to go into a full rebuild. I said so.

It was Phil who came in claiming his triangle would fix everything and make ys a contender. Dolan hired Phil to convince Melo to stay.

I have wanted a fuqing rebuild since 2010.
Step with thinking you know me.

Have you ? I want a rebuild since Pat Ewing was traded.

Relax, I know you want the Knicks to do better above all.

What I don't understand is your hardcore criticism of the current regime, who is just trying to build a system that eventually brings postseason action that we are currently missing. The regime has done one mistake, which was to resign Carmelo Anthony for 5 years with an NTC, and which Phil has recently acknowledged the team needs to move on from, but my understanding is yet you're not happy with the acknowledgment.

I am happy the franchise is looking to move on from the Melo era, which has been a failure since he was acquired, and IMO Phil can't be blamed for not bringing better players around him, without acknowledging that it's been a problem to find players happy to play with Melo.

You looked at Marc Gasol, and his situation in Memphis. Why would he leave Mike Conley for Melo ?
You looked at LaMarcus Aldridge, who was getting a SAS offer, to play with Kawhi, why would he consider playing with Melo ?
You looked at Kevin Durant, who was getting a Warriors offer, why the hell would he meet with the team who promotes Carmelo Anthony ?

Phil had to go the D-Rose route to please Melo.
Noah only came here because he wanted home, and it was reported Lee signed here to play with Joakim.

The Knicks were wrong to give the keys to Carmelo Anthony from day one, his selective effort doesn't cut it in the NBA but he belongs to the past now.

I look at a guy like Kawhi and his performance in Memphis, Melo is so far from that level. He's not even half the player Kawhi is today, and 2017 was most likely his last ASG which he did as a league reserve, not coaches. Knicks need to move on from Melo, not without regrets though.

I look forward to the draft now and to get a two way skilled player. We'll see what the lottery does for us, but if Boston's in the top 3, and we're #7 or #8, and they are considering to move down and get Carmelo in the process, & Carmelo is happy to play for the #1 seed, there's no reason why we shouldn't move Melo, get a Jay Crowder in the rotation, and move up.

FKF · Post #108 » by **FKF** » Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:53 am

Greenie wrote:
fresko024 wrote:Rose stinks.

Honestly, I place all of the blame on Rose. As bad as the Noah signing was, we had depth at that position with WHG and KOQ.

Unfortunately, we had Rose, who can score but couldn't pass or defend, playing 35 mpg. He didn't help KP or Melo. Between him and Melo, it was impossible to run an offensive system centered around ball movement...

The funny thing is that Melo proved he can play with ball movement and is a willing passer. Rose has not. When Fisher was here Melo played within the system. That was just last year.

Jeff took the ball out of Melo's hands unless he was in iso and gave it to Rose and Jennings. Jennings was a much more willing passer than Rose and thus, we played better in the beginning of the year with BJ running point.

Very few called P&R's with Melo. Melo had to call for them in his isolation. We would have the PG do one of two things:

Run a P&R
Dump into the mid post for either iso Melo or KP.

The dumbest offense I have ever witnessed. Once in a while we would have Lee run a horn set.

Jeff was straight atrocious as a coach this past year. He didn't maximize Melo and KP at all.

Melo and KP looked to have the potential to be lethal under Fisher. They had a two game going on between them last year. They leaned on each other last year. WTF happened?

Teach me when exactly. When he passed to Calderon in SA and stated to the press minutes later he shoulda probably taken and made that shot?

Greenie · Post #109 » by **Greenie** » Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:05 pm

FKF wrote:
Greenie wrote:
FKF wrote:
Melo played chess first by meeting competition when he was a FA, and commanding a five years offer including an NTC.

The Lakers were right there to pair Melo and Kobe, and the Knicks had to surrender all their guns to keep Melo.

In retrospect, Phil should just have let Melo walk to LA, but the media and fans like you would have killed him for that.

First off, you don't know **** about me.
I was cool letting Melo walk if we were going to go into a full rebuild. I said so.

It was Phil who came in claiming his triangle would fix everything and make ys a contender. Dolan hired Phil to convince Melo to stay.

I have wanted a fuqing rebuild since 2010.
Step with thinking you know me.

Have you ? I want a rebuild since Pat Ewing was traded.

Relax, I know you want the Knicks to do better above all.

What I don't understand is your hardcore criticism of the current regime, who is just trying to build a system that eventually brings postseason action that we are currently missing. The regime has done one mistake, which was to resign Carmelo Anthony for 5 years with an NTC, and which Phil has recently acknowledged the team needs to move on from, but my understanding is yet you're not happy with the acknowledgment.

I am happy the franchise is looking to move on from the Melo era, which has been a failure since he was acquired, and IMO Phil can't be blamed for not bringing better players around him, without acknowledging that it's been a problem to find players happy to play with Melo.

You looked at Marc Gasol, and his situation in Memphis. Why would he leave Mike Conley for Melo ?
You looked at LaMarcus Aldridge, who was getting a SAS offer, to play with Kawhi, why would he consider playing with Melo ?
You looked at Kevin Durant, who was getting a Warriors offer, why the hell would he meet with the team who promotes Carmelo Anthony ?

Phil had to go the D-Rose route to please Melo.
Noah only came here because he wanted home, and it was reported Lee signed here to play with Joakim.

The Knicks were wrong to give the keys to Carmelo Anthony from day one, his selective effort doesn't cut it in the NBA but he belongs to the past now.

I look at a guy like Kawhi and his performance in Memphis, Melo is so far from that level. He's not even half the player Kawhi is today, and 2017 was most likely his last ASG which he did as a league reserve, not coaches. Knicks need to move on from Melo, not without regrets though.

I look forward to the draft now and to get a two way skilled player. We'll see what the lottery does for us, but if Boston's in the top 3, and we're #7 or #8, and they are considering to move down and get Carmelo in the process, & Carmelo is happy to play for the #1 seed, there's no reason why we shouldn't move Melo, get a Jay Crowder in the rotation, and move up.

bull.

This is why you and I can't have a convo.
I stopped reading right there.

Good Day Sir

Dr. Detfink · Post #110 » by **Dr. Detfink** » Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:07 pm

Guys let's get something straight...

It's "Re-sign" NOT resign.

:lol:

Greenie · Post #111 » by **Greenie** » Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:24 pm

Dr. Detfink wrote:Guys let's get something straight...

It's "Re-sign" NOT resign.

Let them live.
We understand what they are trying to say.
They don't mean stepping down(quitting) from a position. They mean signing with us again :lol:

Sark · Post #112 » by **Sark** » Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:29 pm

Melo was a willing passer? :lol:

He had a higher usage rate than Rose, the actual point guard. The ball has always died in Melo's hands. Even the year before his assist rate was lower than Rose's.

whocares1 · Post #113 » by **whocares1** » Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:39 pm

I just wish the Knicks wouldn't rely on Melo for handling the ball on the perimeter. Don't give him the ball until he's in the low-mid block. Why give him the ball 20 feet away so that he will back down and stagnate the offense for 10 seconds?

Blockwatcher · Post #114 » by **Blockwatcher** » Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:29 am

DRose is at the bulls game

rajajackal · Post #115 » by **rajajackal** » Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:51 am

this team belongs to porzingis and ntilikina. you'll just have to get used to that.

WesleyExChiFan · Post #116 » by **WesleyExChiFan** » Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:29 am

The NBA more or less passed Rose up. He lost a LOT of court time ant it really shows in his game time decisions.

Thing is, when Rose WAS great, he had solid coaching and a clear cut system. Thibs called all the plays and kept the team in the same page.

Losing that court time and then learning different systems two years in a row, missing camp both years. That has an effect on a player.

Still, he's a sixth man these days until he proves otherwise.

NYKnickerbocker · Post #117 » by **NYKnickerbocker** » Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:14 am

Sark wrote:Melo was a willing passer?
He had a higher usage rate than Rose, the actual point guard. The ball has always died in Melo's hands. Even the year before his assist rate was lower than Rose's.

and its still very good for a forward, its right around the lvl of other forwards seen as willing passers gordon hayward, george etc

and also rose is the Pg, his assist rate should be higher than melos

Knickerbock · Post #118 » by **Knickerbock** » Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:29 pm

I don't even want Derrick Rose on a discount contract...

His style of play is playground ball... Its all about his selfish driving to the basket and he doesn't know what passing is.. Then on top of that he doesn't play a lick of defense.. There is nothing more demotivating than having a teammate who takes a lot of bad shots, doesn't pass, and then does not play any defense.

NYKAL · Post #119 » by **NYKAL** » Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:26 pm

whocares1 wrote:I just wish the Knicks wouldn't rely on Melo for handling the ball on the perimeter. Don't give him the ball until he's in the low-mid block. Why give him the ball 20 feet away so that he will back down and stagnate the offense for 10 seconds?

This is what happens when your team lack a point guard with a brain. No real point guard would do that.

Melo is not the issue, the issue is the guard play. When we had Kidd & Billups, it was a non-issue. Other than THOSE 2, he's NEVER been paired with a point guard for his whole tenure in New York BUT, Melo is the issue. smfh

cmd1985 · Post #120 » by **cmd1985** » Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:53 pm

NYKAL wrote:
whocares1 wrote:I just wish the Knicks wouldn't rely on Melo for handling the ball on the perimeter. Don't give him the ball until he's in the low-mid block. Why give him the ball 20 feet away so that he will back down and stagnate the offense for 10 seconds?

This is what happens when your team lack a point guard with a brain. No real point guard would do that.

Melo is not the issue, the issue is the guard play. When we had Kidd & Billups, it was a non-issue. Other than THOSE 2, he's NEVER been paired with a point guard for his whole tenure in New York BUT, Melo is the issue. smfh

Sorry but Melo chooses to play that way. It's definitely a Melo issue. He decides to bring the ball up court and shoot contested jumpers, or get the ball and hold it for 12 seconds sizing up an opponent. He's definitely part of the issue actually the biggest part in his ball stopping ways.