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It's Me Against the World (KP skips exit meeting part 2)

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Pro-Phil, anti-Melo
20
14%
Pro-Melo, anti-Phil
27
19%
Pro-Both (Not sure how...?)
9
6%
Anti-Both
51
36%
Move Team to Seattle
33
24%
 
Total votes: 140

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Re: It's Me Against the World (KP skips exit meeting part 2) 

Post#381 » by JohnWillow » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:18 pm

Greenie wrote:
shtolky wrote:When did Robin Lopez become such a coveted asset? He's a 10 and 6 guy. That's it, that's who he is. I'd much rather have Holiday, the 2nd round pick, and that salary slot open than Lopez. Yes we signed Noah, but those are two different moves. I just find it funny that when we signed Lopez people were up in arms. Now he's gone and he's such a massive asset we don't have anymore. He was so good this year he lead the Bulls to a .500 season.

No.

People are upset at the domino effect.

You trade Rolo for a score first PG that doesn't fit and is playing for a contract.

To address this imagery hole now at center because you traded Lopez you sign Joakim to a 4 year, fuqed up deal for even more money that you were paying Lopez.


And KP with Lopez last year was awesome defensive frontcourt duo, they complimented each other very well, plus RoLo is not a injury prone player and you could easily trade him a lot later if Phil would need to do that, but Phil somehow ''realised' that RoLo will not be good for him and he go gets/gives one of the worst contracts in the NBA history, + that contract is almost impossible to trade and he is injury prone? Hallelujah, it's a JACKPOT Phil, good job... good effort. He earned those 12 M per year.
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Re: It's Me Against the World (KP skips exit meeting part 2) 

Post#382 » by shtolky » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:18 pm

FutureKnicksGM wrote:
shtolky wrote:When did Robin Lopez become such a coveted asset? He's a 10 and 6 guy. That's it, that's who he is. I'd much rather have Holiday, the 2nd round pick, and that salary slot open than Lopez. Yes we signed Noah, but those are two different moves. I just find it funny that when we signed Lopez people were up in arms. Now he's gone and he's such a massive asset we don't have anymore. He was so good this year he lead the Bulls to a .500 season.


When's Phil going to lead us to a .500 season?



So this is what we now want, at worst, a .500 season? Being .500 in the NBA is the kiss of death. Look at the Hawks. Constantly winning 43-45 games, a non-factor. I don't care if Lopez would have made us "better" by allowing us to win 38 games instead of 30 (which is laughable). Guess what, the year before Phil arrived, we were a 37 win team, not even .500. Only one first round pick. Kinda tough to build a team in 3 years from 37 wins to something good like that.
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Re: It's Me Against the World (KP skips exit meeting part 2) 

Post#383 » by shtolky » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:20 pm

JohnWillow wrote:
Greenie wrote:
shtolky wrote:When did Robin Lopez become such a coveted asset? He's a 10 and 6 guy. That's it, that's who he is. I'd much rather have Holiday, the 2nd round pick, and that salary slot open than Lopez. Yes we signed Noah, but those are two different moves. I just find it funny that when we signed Lopez people were up in arms. Now he's gone and he's such a massive asset we don't have anymore. He was so good this year he lead the Bulls to a .500 season.

No.

People are upset at the domino effect.

You trade Rolo for a score first PG that doesn't fit and is playing for a contract.

To address this imagery hole now at center because you traded Lopez you sign Joakim to a 4 year, fuqed up deal for even more money that you were paying Lopez.


And KP with Lopez last year was awesome defensive frontcourt duo, they complimented each other very well, plus RoLo is not a injury prone player and you could easily trade him a lot later if Phil would need to do that, but Phil realise that RoLo will not be good and he go gets/gives one of the worst contracts in the NBA history, + that contract is almost impossible to trade and he is injury prone? Hallelujah, it's a JACKPOT Phil, good job... good effort. He earned those 12 M per year.



That vaunted KP/Lopez front court duo got us exactly one more win than this year's group. We were going nowhere with Lopez.
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Re: It's Me Against the World (KP skips exit meeting part 2) 

Post#384 » by Greenie » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:20 pm

FutureKnicksGM wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:The scary part of the Rose deal is that if he did pan out it may have been even worse (resigning him to a big deal)....we still may even resign him.


Wasn't there a 60 plus page thread saying we should extend him? lol.

Yep.

The beginning of the year Rose was fine but he needed to pass more. I wanted stability for the team and figured we could take a PG in the draft wherever to transition.


Boy was I WRONG.

It seems as soon as I became neutral on Rose he started acting up. I have never in my life seen a PG...let me say that again.

I HAVE NEVER IN MY LIFE SEEN A PG BE SO UNWILLING TO PASS.
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Re: It's Me Against the World (KP skips exit meeting part 2) 

Post#385 » by Greenie » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:23 pm

shtolky wrote:
JohnWillow wrote:
Greenie wrote:No.

People are upset at the domino effect.

You trade Rolo for a score first PG that doesn't fit and is playing for a contract.

To address this imagery hole now at center because you traded Lopez you sign Joakim to a 4 year, fuqed up deal for even more money that you were paying Lopez.


And KP with Lopez last year was awesome defensive frontcourt duo, they complimented each other very well, plus RoLo is not a injury prone player and you could easily trade him a lot later if Phil would need to do that, but Phil realise that RoLo will not be good and he go gets/gives one of the worst contracts in the NBA history, + that contract is almost impossible to trade and he is injury prone? Hallelujah, it's a JACKPOT Phil, good job... good effort. He earned those 12 M per year.



That vaunted KP/Lopez front court duo got us exactly one more win than this year's group. We were going nowhere with Lopez.

Where we going now?

That's a silly argument when you did worse.
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Re: It's Me Against the World (KP skips exit meeting part 2) 

Post#386 » by Greenie » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:24 pm

JohnWillow wrote:
Greenie wrote:
shtolky wrote:When did Robin Lopez become such a coveted asset? He's a 10 and 6 guy. That's it, that's who he is. I'd much rather have Holiday, the 2nd round pick, and that salary slot open than Lopez. Yes we signed Noah, but those are two different moves. I just find it funny that when we signed Lopez people were up in arms. Now he's gone and he's such a massive asset we don't have anymore. He was so good this year he lead the Bulls to a .500 season.

No.

People are upset at the domino effect.

You trade Rolo for a score first PG that doesn't fit and is playing for a contract.

To address this imagery hole now at center because you traded Lopez you sign Joakim to a 4 year, fuqed up deal for even more money that you were paying Lopez.


And KP with Lopez last year was awesome defensive frontcourt duo, they complimented each other very well, plus RoLo is not a injury prone player and you could easily trade him a lot later if Phil would need to do that, but Phil somehow ''realised' that RoLo will not be good for him and he go gets/gives one of the worst contracts in the NBA history, + that contract is almost impossible to trade and he is injury prone? Hallelujah, it's a JACKPOT Phil, good job... good effort. He earned those 12 M per year.

Not gonna lie, I didn't think Noah would be so injury prone. He only fuqed up his shoulder.
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Re: It's Me Against the World (KP skips exit meeting part 2) 

Post#387 » by shtolky » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:24 pm

Greenie wrote:
shtolky wrote:When did Robin Lopez become such a coveted asset? He's a 10 and 6 guy. That's it, that's who he is. I'd much rather have Holiday, the 2nd round pick, and that salary slot open than Lopez. Yes we signed Noah, but those are two different moves. I just find it funny that when we signed Lopez people were up in arms. Now he's gone and he's such a massive asset we don't have anymore. He was so good this year he lead the Bulls to a .500 season.

No.

People are upset at the domino effect.

You trade Rolo for a score first PG that doesn't fit and is playing for a contract.

To address this imagery hole now at center because you traded Lopez you sign Joakim to a 4 year, fuqed up deal for even more money that you were paying Lopez.



That score first PG is gone. That score first PG was either going to be very good and help us get to the playoffs, or "help" us get to the lottery. Mission accomplished. Low risk move. What's going to come out of it, a nice tasty lottery pick in the deepest draft in years. And yes, while the Noah deal followed the Lopez trade, let's not act as if the moves were done simultaneously. I doubt he went to Noah and said, oh ok we are signing you, but first I gotta trade Lopez for your buddy. My guess is Noah comes here regardless. Even so, we act as if the Lopez trade was some Knick travesty of epic proportions. Did people not pay attention to the last...oh, 16 years of Knick trades? The Ewing trade, the Curry trade, trading away unprotected 1sts (two of which became Hayward and Aldridge), the Bargnani trade, etc etc. But somehow the Lopez trade is horrible when in fact it was not.
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Re: It's Me Against the World (KP skips exit meeting part 2) 

Post#388 » by shtolky » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:29 pm

Greenie wrote:
JohnWillow wrote:
Greenie wrote:No.

People are upset at the domino effect.

You trade Rolo for a score first PG that doesn't fit and is playing for a contract.

To address this imagery hole now at center because you traded Lopez you sign Joakim to a 4 year, fuqed up deal for even more money that you were paying Lopez.


And KP with Lopez last year was awesome defensive frontcourt duo, they complimented each other very well, plus RoLo is not a injury prone player and you could easily trade him a lot later if Phil would need to do that, but Phil somehow ''realised' that RoLo will not be good for him and he go gets/gives one of the worst contracts in the NBA history, + that contract is almost impossible to trade and he is injury prone? Hallelujah, it's a JACKPOT Phil, good job... good effort. He earned those 12 M per year.

Not gonna lie, I didn't think Noah would be so injury prone. He only fuqed up his shoulder.



Right, so if you thought this (I did too), were you not initially mad at the Noah contract?
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Re: It's Me Against the World (KP skips exit meeting part 2) 

Post#389 » by K-DOT » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:29 pm

We win like, 33 games if we don't make the Rose trade

RoLo is good, but his defense isn't enough to make up for the 18 ppg Rose brings
Grant is slightly better than Baker
Holiday blows Jose out of the water

In a vacuum, it's a wash, but since it lead to the Noah deal, it's looked on as worse than it was. Really, we should evaluate each individual move, not cause and effect, cause if we're doing continuation, I can find a way to blame everything on the Melo trade, or even the Curry trade, it's all a rabbit hole
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Re: It's Me Against the World (KP skips exit meeting part 2) 

Post#390 » by FutureKnicksGM » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:32 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
FutureKnicksGM wrote:
I say we are definitely in the race for a low seed playoff spot. CHI wouldn't make it with no center (they knew Jo was washed) and D-Rose not letting Jimmy be the man in CHI. You know we played 500 ball before Melo got tripped by that ref, and that's with your boy Jose at the point, and Fisher costing us games with his rotations.

Who's better Rolo or Rose? I got Rolo as a starting role player. DRose as a instant offense no D 6th man.

How many games do we win with no Melo this season? 50? I've seen you post hundreds of times that he was the one leading the tank with his no D, ball holding ways.


first you know Melo loved that trade correct? He said that was exactly the type of trade Phil needed to do.

I never has said Melo is a net negative he just isn't the type of player this team needs. He gave up at the end of season playing no defense and giving no effort there is a difference. He 33 going onto 34 and declining. He doesn't effect wins and losses at this point in his career. Can he be a good offensive complimentary piece to a playoff team sure...but that isn't going to be here.

Would you have rather been fighting for an 8th seed or be in a position to draft a top rookie. Indirectly we are in this position and we should be happy.

ROLO isn't a needle mover. He had a couple good games and this sparked up like how in the world could you do this PHIL??? It was a low risk move to help us compete. It either was going to work out (rose play better than he did) or fail and we get a good pick.

Buzz said it best we were just treadmilling if we kept Lopez...


Yes Melo would make a bad gm. Thank you for raising that relevant point.

So let me guess, when Phil was making those moves this offseason you were trashing those moves as they were making us a treadmill team? No.

Like it or not, Phil was trying to win with Melo to start the season. The moves that Phil made just sucked.

Of course it would be better to build around KP and draft picks, but your logic is crazy.
If we make bad moves it doesn't matter as long as we get a high pick.
Should we sign Starbury next year with our capspace? He's obviously old as ****. Can you imagine the drama we would have with Phil & Starbury trashing each other in the media. Our chemistry would be as low as our win count. Doncic here we come,
Knicksfan1992 wrote:Lopez isn't better than Noah
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Re: It's Me Against the World (KP skips exit meeting part 2) 

Post#391 » by shtolky » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:32 pm

Greenie wrote:
shtolky wrote:
JohnWillow wrote:
And KP with Lopez last year was awesome defensive frontcourt duo, they complimented each other very well, plus RoLo is not a injury prone player and you could easily trade him a lot later if Phil would need to do that, but Phil realise that RoLo will not be good and he go gets/gives one of the worst contracts in the NBA history, + that contract is almost impossible to trade and he is injury prone? Hallelujah, it's a JACKPOT Phil, good job... good effort. He earned those 12 M per year.



That vaunted KP/Lopez front court duo got us exactly one more win than this year's group. We were going nowhere with Lopez.

Where we going now?

That's a silly argument when you did worse.



1 game difference is not worse, it's the same for all intents and purposes, especially given there are 82 games. And where are we going now? I just don't understand how one can look at the 37 win roster under Woodson and say we are in a worse position now. I just don't get it. If we nail this lotto pick and we have a decent season with KP, pick, and Willy, people will say wow what a future. Yes, we've taken a step back win wise, but I would much rather suck and get picks than be a 37 win team in the NBA. People complain about where we are but never offer an alternative scenario. We had one first round pick in Phil's tenure, one. It's hard to improve from 37 wins in the NBA with just 1 first round pick in 3 years. I am not a Phil fanatic, he has his faults, but to think he's done a worse job than Isiah, Layden, or Grunwald is just ridiculous given their moves.
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Re: It's Me Against the World (KP skips exit meeting part 2) 

Post#392 » by JohnWillow » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:33 pm

Tbh One 0.500 season and 7th/8th seed in the playoffs>>>3 straight years of the lottery with 30 win seasons. If yall are talking about winning culture. Play-off experience is big for young guys, it motivates even more.
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Re: It's Me Against the World (KP skips exit meeting part 2) 

Post#393 » by K-DOT » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:36 pm

shtolky wrote:
Greenie wrote:
shtolky wrote:

That vaunted KP/Lopez front court duo got us exactly one more win than this year's group. We were going nowhere with Lopez.

Where we going now?

That's a silly argument when you did worse.



1 game difference is not worse, it's the same for all intents and purposes, especially given there are 82 games. And where are we going now? I just don't understand how one can look at the 37 win roster under Woodson and say we are in a worse position now. I just don't get it. If we nail this lotto pick and we have a decent season with KP, pick, and Willy, people will say wow what a future. Yes, we've taken a step back win wise, but I would much rather suck and get picks than be a 37 win team in the NBA. People complain about where we are but never offer an alternative scenario. We had one first round pick in Phil's tenure, one. It's hard to improve from 37 wins in the NBA with just 1 first round pick in 3 years. I am not a Phil fanatic, he has his faults, but to think he's done a worse job than Isiah, Layden, or Grunwald is just ridiculous given their moves.

To be fair, a lot of the criticism around Phil is that he tried to retool instead of rebuild. After the 37 win season, we should've torn everything down, because like you said, that team wasn't going anywhere. Instead, Phil didn't fully embrace a rebuild, in which case we would've been in a better position (theoretically) right now
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Re: It's Me Against the World (KP skips exit meeting part 2) 

Post#394 » by shtolky » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:37 pm

JohnWillow wrote:Tbh One 0.500 season and 7th/8th seed in the playoffs>>>3 straight years of the lottery with 30 win seasons. If yall are talking about winning culture. Play-off experience is big for young guys, it motivates even more.




Tell that to the Warriors who built their team from the draft. Tell that to the Cavs who drafted Kyrie first overall. Tell that to the Clippers who drafted Blake and Deandre. Tell that to the Wizards who drafted Wall and Beal. Man those 20 win seasons for Curry really screwed him up. The losing culture just ruined him. That early playoff experience thing is so overrated. What is the rush? KP in year 2 HAS to make the playoffs? I would MUCH rather have three consecutive lotto picks than one 8th seed at .500, it's laughable to think otherwise.
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Re: It's Me Against the World (KP skips exit meeting part 2) 

Post#395 » by Tron Carter » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:38 pm

shtolky wrote:
Greenie wrote:
shtolky wrote:When did Robin Lopez become such a coveted asset? He's a 10 and 6 guy. That's it, that's who he is. I'd much rather have Holiday, the 2nd round pick, and that salary slot open than Lopez. Yes we signed Noah, but those are two different moves. I just find it funny that when we signed Lopez people were up in arms. Now he's gone and he's such a massive asset we don't have anymore. He was so good this year he lead the Bulls to a .500 season.

No.

People are upset at the domino effect.

You trade Rolo for a score first PG that doesn't fit and is playing for a contract.

To address this imagery hole now at center because you traded Lopez you sign Joakim to a 4 year, fuqed up deal for even more money that you were paying Lopez.



That score first PG is gone. That score first PG was either going to be very good and help us get to the playoffs, or "help" us get to the lottery. Mission accomplished. Low risk move. What's going to come out of it, a nice tasty lottery pick in the deepest draft in years. And yes, while the Noah deal followed the Lopez trade, let's not act as if the moves were done simultaneously. I doubt he went to Noah and said, oh ok we are signing you, but first I gotta trade Lopez for your buddy. My guess is Noah comes here regardless. Even so, we act as if the Lopez trade was some Knick travesty of epic proportions. Did people not pay attention to the last...oh, 16 years of Knick trades? The Ewing trade, the Curry trade, trading away unprotected 1sts (two of which became Hayward and Aldridge), the Bargnani trade, etc etc. But somehow the Lopez trade is horrible when in fact it was not.


so because the knicks have made terrible trades in the past in retrospect the lopez trade wasn't that bad? GTFO
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Re: It's Me Against the World (KP skips exit meeting part 2) 

Post#396 » by shtolky » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:39 pm

K-DOT wrote:
shtolky wrote:
Greenie wrote:Where we going now?

That's a silly argument when you did worse.



1 game difference is not worse, it's the same for all intents and purposes, especially given there are 82 games. And where are we going now? I just don't understand how one can look at the 37 win roster under Woodson and say we are in a worse position now. I just don't get it. If we nail this lotto pick and we have a decent season with KP, pick, and Willy, people will say wow what a future. Yes, we've taken a step back win wise, but I would much rather suck and get picks than be a 37 win team in the NBA. People complain about where we are but never offer an alternative scenario. We had one first round pick in Phil's tenure, one. It's hard to improve from 37 wins in the NBA with just 1 first round pick in 3 years. I am not a Phil fanatic, he has his faults, but to think he's done a worse job than Isiah, Layden, or Grunwald is just ridiculous given their moves.

To be fair, a lot of the criticism around Phil is that he tried to retool instead of rebuild. After the 37 win season, we should've torn everything down, because like you said, that team wasn't going anywhere. Instead, Phil didn't fully embrace a rebuild, in which case we would've been in a better position (theoretically) right now



I am with you, and I get the dissatisfaction from posters. My point is Phil isn't nearly as bad as people make him out to be. This is different from me saying he's done a bang up job. But people have to realize that we were a mediocre, treadmill 37 win team with a selfish superstar going nowhere, with only 1 first round pick because the past regimes were too stupid to keep our most valuable assets. He tried to win and it failed, sure, but except for the Noah deal, everything he did was low risk. Now, we have a lotto pick in this draft. Color me happy.
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Re: It's Me Against the World (KP skips exit meeting part 2) 

Post#397 » by mpharris36 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:39 pm

FutureKnicksGM wrote:
Yes Melo would make a bad gm. Thank you for raising that relevant point.

So let me guess, when Phil was making those moves this offseason you were trashing those moves as they were making us a treadmill team? No.

Like it or not, Phil was trying to win with Melo to start the season. The moves that Phil made just sucked.

Of course it would be better to build around KP and draft picks, but your logic is crazy.
If we make bad moves it doesn't matter as long as we get a high pick.
Should we sign Starbury next year with our capspace? He's obviously old as ****. Can you imagine the drama we would have with Phil & Starbury trashing each other in the media. Our chemistry would be as low as our win count. Doncic here we come,


The point of my argument was that of course the move was to help us win games. But the move also was a low risk move. Rose was a solid gamble. It was a one year type thing and we were trying to catch lightning in a bottle. Holiday was a good acquisition and we added a future pick in the deal.

It was a calculated risk. Lopez is a solid player but is simply not replaceable and we are indirectly probably in a better position because of it. So I don't get the point in being up in arms because of it.
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Re: It's Me Against the World (KP skips exit meeting part 2) 

Post#398 » by shtolky » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:41 pm

Tron Carter wrote:
shtolky wrote:
Greenie wrote:No.

People are upset at the domino effect.

You trade Rolo for a score first PG that doesn't fit and is playing for a contract.

To address this imagery hole now at center because you traded Lopez you sign Joakim to a 4 year, fuqed up deal for even more money that you were paying Lopez.



That score first PG is gone. That score first PG was either going to be very good and help us get to the playoffs, or "help" us get to the lottery. Mission accomplished. Low risk move. What's going to come out of it, a nice tasty lottery pick in the deepest draft in years. And yes, while the Noah deal followed the Lopez trade, let's not act as if the moves were done simultaneously. I doubt he went to Noah and said, oh ok we are signing you, but first I gotta trade Lopez for your buddy. My guess is Noah comes here regardless. Even so, we act as if the Lopez trade was some Knick travesty of epic proportions. Did people not pay attention to the last...oh, 16 years of Knick trades? The Ewing trade, the Curry trade, trading away unprotected 1sts (two of which became Hayward and Aldridge), the Bargnani trade, etc etc. But somehow the Lopez trade is horrible when in fact it was not.


so because the knicks have made terrible trades in the past in retrospect the lopez trade wasn't that bad? GTFO



Nope, you are not understanding what I am saying, clearly. I am saying that people love to say how Knicksy some of our moves are, how Phil has made such horrible trades. Everything is relative. Also, I didn't say the Lopez trade "wasn't that bad." I said it wasn't horrible. Anyone who says the trade is horrible is just blinded by past Knick suffering. There is no comparison between the Lopez deal, which at worst is a wash, and the other trades we have made. In the pantheon of epicly bad trades, even those made over the past 5 years, the Lopez deal barely registers as a blip. Robin Lopez...please.
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Re: It's Me Against the World (KP skips exit meeting part 2) 

Post#399 » by mpharris36 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:42 pm

JohnWillow wrote:Tbh One 0.500 season and 7th/8th seed in the playoffs>>>3 straight years of the lottery with 30 win seasons. If yall are talking about winning culture. Play-off experience is big for young guys, it motivates even more.


false

we have never and i mean never had multiple years of lottery picks because we never respect the draft. A first round playoff embarrassment doesn't nothing for experience. You need horses before you can compete. We didn't have the horses.
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Re: It's Me Against the World (KP skips exit meeting part 2) 

Post#400 » by Deeeez Knicks » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:42 pm

I just hate the direction we went in last offseason...why we even trying so hard to win now?

We should just be focused on rebuilding/youth.
Pelicans
C: KP | Lucas Noguiera | Deyonta Davis
PF: Thad Young | Montrezl Harrell| D Powell
SF: Gordon Hayward | Paul Zipser |Mario Hez
SG: Danny Green | Josh Hart | Stuckey
PG: Jrue Holiday | Tyus Jones |Jerian Grant

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