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OT: Ex-NFL player Aaron Hernandez commits suicide in prison

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Re: OT: Ex-NFL player Aaron Hernandez commits suicide in prison 

Post#21 » by Phish Tank » Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:36 pm

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el13adnino wrote:espn (outside the lines) just said that aaron hernandez had requested a trade in 2012 and N.E. declined his request. A.H. said that he couldnt be in n.e. anymore and needed a new start somewhere else.

Maybe he knew he needed to get away from some people.

He went away for college too.

Maybe if he was traded it could have saved lives.


the year was wrong. He was requesting a trade in 2013. The months before the murder. AKA the window between the double murder in the club in Boston and the murder of Odin Lloyd. I think he was trying to hide.
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Re: OT: Ex-NFL player Aaron Hernandez commits suicide in prison 

Post#22 » by xNewYorkMadex » Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:46 pm

Not sad.

Feel for his daughter though. I followed the Hernandez/Odin trial very closely. This past case not so much. Aaron just isnt a good dude. Not sure why he would kill himself now. 1st thing in my mind was because he couldnt take that he let down his daughter and wouldnt be there for her.

His wife/girlfriend Shayanna never brought their daughter to the courtroom during the Odin trial. She did bring her in one of the last days of this past trial and the kid was shedding tears for her dad. So im just purely speculating that could be the reason why he did it. Knowing he would never get out of prison and knowing he just fkd up.
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Re: OT: Ex-NFL player Aaron Hernandez commits suicide in prison 

Post#23 » by frogfood » Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:59 pm

xNewYorkMadex wrote:Not sad.

Feel for his daughter though. I followed the Hernandez/Odin trial very closely. This past case not so much. Aaron just isnt a good dude. Not sure why he would kill himself now. 1st thing in my mind was because he couldnt take that he let down his daughter and wouldnt be there for her.

His wife/girlfriend Shayanna never brought their daughter to the courtroom during the Odin trial. She did bring her in one of the last days of this past trial and the kid was shedding tears for her dad. So im just purely speculating that could be the reason why he did it. Knowing he would never get out of prison and knowing he just fkd up.


Not 100% certain but in death, his appeal for the first conviction is in limbo meaning he is basically innocent. That would help his estate if they were ever sued in civil court, specifically, the prosecution could not say he was guilty of murder.

That's what I read elsewhere.

P.S. Aaron Hernandez suspended himself before Roger Goodell could.

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Re: OT: Ex-NFL player Aaron Hernandez commits suicide in prison 

Post#24 » by Greenie » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:11 pm

Phish Tank wrote:
Greenie wrote:
el13adnino wrote:espn (outside the lines) just said that aaron hernandez had requested a trade in 2012 and N.E. declined his request. A.H. said that he couldnt be in n.e. anymore and needed a new start somewhere else.

Maybe he knew he needed to get away from some people.

He went away for college too.

Maybe if he was traded it could have saved lives.


the year was wrong. He was requesting a trade in 2013. The months before the murder. AKA the window between the double murder in the club in Boston and the murder of Odin Lloyd. I think he was trying to hide.

Oh.

Nevermind then.
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Re: OT: Ex-NFL player Aaron Hernandez commits suicide in prison 

Post#25 » by Guano » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:41 pm

xNewYorkMadex wrote:Not sad.

Feel for his daughter though. I followed the Hernandez/Odin trial very closely. This past case not so much. Aaron just isnt a good dude. Not sure why he would kill himself now. 1st thing in my mind was because he couldnt take that he let down his daughter and wouldnt be there for her.

His wife/girlfriend Shayanna never brought their daughter to the courtroom during the Odin trial. She did bring her in one of the last days of this past trial and the kid was shedding tears for her dad. So im just purely speculating that could be the reason why he did it. Knowing he would never get out of prison and knowing he just fkd up.


can't imagine the emotions she must feel. her road will be rough.
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Re: OT: Ex-NFL player Aaron Hernandez commits suicide in prison 

Post#26 » by Shemy » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:39 pm

good fvk him

only thing sad is that his young daughter will have have to grow up not knowing anything about her father other than that he was a POS murderer
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Re: OT: Ex-NFL player Aaron Hernandez commits suicide in prison 

Post#27 » by N8isScofield » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:51 pm

Greenie wrote:
el13adnino wrote:espn (outside the lines) just said that aaron hernandez had requested a trade in 2012 and N.E. declined his request. A.H. said that he couldnt be in n.e. anymore and needed a new start somewhere else.

Maybe he knew he needed to get away from some people.

He went away for college too.

Maybe if he was traded it could have saved lives.

He was a knucklehead in college at Florida where he also got into fights and brandished weapons at people but it was covered up by the university. He was going to be a scumbag wherever he was. People are trying too hard to humanize him like he wasn't an irredeemable sociopath.
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Re: OT: Ex-NFL player Aaron Hernandez commits suicide in prison 

Post#28 » by Greenie » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:13 am

N8isScofield wrote:
Greenie wrote:
el13adnino wrote:espn (outside the lines) just said that aaron hernandez had requested a trade in 2012 and N.E. declined his request. A.H. said that he couldnt be in n.e. anymore and needed a new start somewhere else.

Maybe he knew he needed to get away from some people.

He went away for college too.

Maybe if he was traded it could have saved lives.

He was a knucklehead in college at Florida where he also got into fights and brandished weapons at people but it was covered up by the university. He was going to be a scumbag wherever he was. People are trying too hard to humanize him like he wasn't an irredeemable sociopath.

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Re: OT: Ex-NFL player Aaron Hernandez commits suicide in prison 

Post#29 » by digitaldropoff » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:37 am

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**** that guy.
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Re: OT: Ex-NFL player Aaron Hernandez commits suicide in prison 

Post#30 » by Ris_44 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:25 am

Must have been hard in there. So many people trying to find out just how tight his end was...
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Re: OT: Ex-NFL player Aaron Hernandez commits suicide in prison 

Post#31 » by el13adnino » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:47 am

Ris_44 wrote:Must have been hard in there. So many people trying to find out just how tight his end was...

im sure it wasnt hard for him at all ... someone tried him in there and a.h. killed him( you didnt hear much about because criminal on criminal murder in jail is viewed as a good thing i guess) he could definitely handle himself, im sure it was more a mental thing, only 27 years old, facing a life sentence with no parole.... i think i wouldve done the same thing
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Re: OT: Ex-NFL player Aaron Hernandez commits suicide in prison 

Post#32 » by knicksup19 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:52 am

N8isScofield wrote:
Amsterdam wrote:Just got a visit from his little daughter last week. Too much too handle.

Can't phathom being only 27 and doing life with no chance at parole. That little girl broke what supposedly is a hardcore dude.

Don't murder people in cold blood. Play football. See daughter grow up. Literally can't get any simpler than that. His dumb ass got what he deserved whether he punked out of life or someone got him.


Facts, i got 0 sympathy for anyone that murders someone in cold blood especially and millonaire athlete. Dont want to spend your life in jail don't kill ppl pretty simple
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Re: OT: Ex-NFL player Aaron Hernandez commits suicide in prison 

Post#33 » by BeagleBoss » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:56 am

I bet he was a Knicks fan and couldn't take it anymore.

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Re: OT: Ex-NFL player Aaron Hernandez commits suicide in prison 

Post#34 » by el13adnino » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:59 am

BeagleBoss wrote:I bet he was a Knicks fan and couldn't take it anymore.

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OT: Ex-NFL player Aaron Hernandez commits suicide in prison 

Post#35 » by Phish Tank » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:54 am

frogfood wrote:
xNewYorkMadex wrote:Not sad.

Feel for his daughter though. I followed the Hernandez/Odin trial very closely. This past case not so much. Aaron just isnt a good dude. Not sure why he would kill himself now. 1st thing in my mind was because he couldnt take that he let down his daughter and wouldnt be there for her.

His wife/girlfriend Shayanna never brought their daughter to the courtroom during the Odin trial. She did bring her in one of the last days of this past trial and the kid was shedding tears for her dad. So im just purely speculating that could be the reason why he did it. Knowing he would never get out of prison and knowing he just fkd up.


Not 100% certain but in death, his appeal for the first conviction is in limbo meaning he is basically innocent. That would help his estate if they were ever sued in civil court, specifically, the prosecution could not say he was guilty of murder.



Yes, you are absolutely correct. Abatement an initio. Basically if a defendant dies and their case doesn't complete the appeals process, the conviction is automatically erased due to the principle that the defendant never had th chance to run through the appeals process.

What this means is that he will be treated as an innocent man in the legal system. The NFL will have to pay his pension. The Patriots will most likely have to pay his family the millions of dollars of bonuses and other guaranteed salary withheld once he was indicted and released from the team as he is now considered an innocent man in court.

What this also means is that the civil suits will continue, but will have a more difficult journey as typically the basis of the case is largely driven off the conviction. Now that he is dead and considered "innocent" in the legal eye, the plaintiffs may just drop this case.

The NFL and Patriots may try to block paying his estate the money. The family is going to fight for this money too. It's a terrible thing to see, because the daughter is going to have a really really tough time dealing with this situation.

Also, I think there was an inside job related to the suicide. Basically, I think he killed himself to help his fiancé and daughter and his fiancé was secretly aware of this too.

Legal experts: feel free to correct me anywhere I'm wrong.



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Re: OT: Ex-NFL player Aaron Hernandez commits suicide in prison 

Post#36 » by N8isScofield » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:47 am

Phish Tank wrote:
frogfood wrote:
xNewYorkMadex wrote:Not sad.

Feel for his daughter though. I followed the Hernandez/Odin trial very closely. This past case not so much. Aaron just isnt a good dude. Not sure why he would kill himself now. 1st thing in my mind was because he couldnt take that he let down his daughter and wouldnt be there for her.

His wife/girlfriend Shayanna never brought their daughter to the courtroom during the Odin trial. She did bring her in one of the last days of this past trial and the kid was shedding tears for her dad. So im just purely speculating that could be the reason why he did it. Knowing he would never get out of prison and knowing he just fkd up.


Not 100% certain but in death, his appeal for the first conviction is in limbo meaning he is basically innocent. That would help his estate if they were ever sued in civil court, specifically, the prosecution could not say he was guilty of murder.



Yes, you are absolutely correct. Abatement an initio. Basically if a defendant dies and their case doesn't complete the appeals process, the conviction is automatically erased due to the principle that the defendant never had th chance to run through the appeals process.

What this means is that he will be treated as an innocent man in the legal system. The NFL will have to pay his pension. The Patriots will most likely have to pay his family the millions of dollars of bonuses and other guaranteed salary withheld once he was indicted and released from the team as he is now considered an innocent man in court.

What this also means is that the civil suits will continue, but will have a more difficult journey as typically the basis of the case is largely driven off the conviction. Now that he is dead and considered "innocent" in the legal eye, the plaintiffs may just drop this case.

The NFL and Patriots may try to block paying his estate the money. The family is going to fight for this money too. It's a terrible thing to see, because the daughter is going to have a really really tough time dealing with this situation.

Also, I think there was an inside job related to the suicide. Basically, I think he killed himself to help his fiancé and daughter and his fiancé was secretly aware of this too.

Legal experts: feel free to correct me anywhere I'm wrong.



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I'm not a legal expert by any means but it shouldn't have any bearing on a civil case where the burden of proof is much lower. OJ was acquitted and that didn't stop them from seizing all of his things when he lost the civil case to the Goldmans. The Patriots won't be on the hook for anything either because conviction or not he was incarcerated and unable to play. He signed a contract to play football. He was released because he was not going to be able to play football. Some posthumous symbolic horse sh*t is not going to change that, especially when our legal system is more about how good your lawyer is than the facts of a case. Robert Kraft has got way better lawyers than Hernandez's family can employ.
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Re: OT: Ex-NFL player Aaron Hernandez commits suicide in prison 

Post#37 » by Phish Tank » Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:23 pm

N8isScofield wrote:
Phish Tank wrote:
frogfood wrote:
Not 100% certain but in death, his appeal for the first conviction is in limbo meaning he is basically innocent. That would help his estate if they were ever sued in civil court, specifically, the prosecution could not say he was guilty of murder.



Yes, you are absolutely correct. Abatement an initio. Basically if a defendant dies and their case doesn't complete the appeals process, the conviction is automatically erased due to the principle that the defendant never had th chance to run through the appeals process.

What this means is that he will be treated as an innocent man in the legal system. The NFL will have to pay his pension. The Patriots will most likely have to pay his family the millions of dollars of bonuses and other guaranteed salary withheld once he was indicted and released from the team as he is now considered an innocent man in court.

What this also means is that the civil suits will continue, but will have a more difficult journey as typically the basis of the case is largely driven off the conviction. Now that he is dead and considered "innocent" in the legal eye, the plaintiffs may just drop this case.

The NFL and Patriots may try to block paying his estate the money. The family is going to fight for this money too. It's a terrible thing to see, because the daughter is going to have a really really tough time dealing with this situation.

Also, I think there was an inside job related to the suicide. Basically, I think he killed himself to help his fiancé and daughter and his fiancé was secretly aware of this too.

Legal experts: feel free to correct me anywhere I'm wrong.



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I'm not a legal expert by any means but it shouldn't have any bearing on a civil case where the burden of proof is much lower. OJ was acquitted and that didn't stop them from seizing all of his things when he lost the civil case to the Goldmans. The Patriots won't be on the hook for anything either because conviction or not he was incarcerated and unable to play. He signed a contract to play football. He was released because he was not going to be able to play football. Some posthumous symbolic horse sh*t is not going to change that, especially when our legal system is more about how good your lawyer is than the facts of a case. Robert Kraft has got way better lawyers than Hernandez's family can employ.


1) You're correct in that burden of proof is lower
2) OJ case was different b/c OJ was alive. Now, all civil suits will be against the estate and without a criminal conviction in place. The prosecution was relying on the conviction as a basis for winning the civil suit. Now it will be a lot harder
3) Aaron Hernandez was owed $3.25 million in a signing bonus when the Pats cut him. Here's a quote from an article 3 years ago on PFT:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/05/16/hernandez-contractual-clause-may-not-help-patriots-get-money-back/

CBS Boston has offered up a different take, based on a January 2013 report from former agent Joel Corry. Said Corry at the time: “Hernandez’s contract contains a clause where he represents and warrants that there weren’t any existing circumstances when he signed his deal that would prevent his continued availability throughout the contract. Committing or participating in a double murder should meet this standard. There’s another clause explicitly stating that the Patriots wouldn’t have entered into the contract except for Hernandez’s representations.”

The language cited by Corry doesn’t appear in the Standard Player Contract , which means that (if the report is accurate), the Patriots and Hernandez separately agreed to that language. Even so, the presence of the language doesn’t mean that the Patriots will be able to recover bonus money in a way that conflicts with the terms of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Paragraph 21 of the Standard Player Contract states that, if the player’s contract conflicts with the CBA, the CBA prevails. And the CBA sets forth the exclusive procedure for obtaining a forfeiture of money paid to the player.

At Article 4, Section 9, the CBA spells out the circumstances that allow money to be recovered. A “forfeitable breach” happens when a player under contract , for one of several reasons (including being in jail), fails to show up for work. If the Patriots hadn’t cut Hernandez, and if he had been unable to show up for work from 2013 through 2016, they could have recovered up to $10 million of his $12.5 million signing bonus.

But they cut him. By cutting him, they lost the ability to recover any of his signing bonus based on his failure to show up for work in any of the five years of the contract that the bonus covered, at $2.5 million per year


Basically, they were holding back his bonus money because of the claim that he was convicted for murder. But the conviction is gone now and there's no other language in the contract that precludes him from receiving that money.

4) Hernandez hired Jose Baez. He's one of the top defense attorneys in the biz.
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Re: OT: Ex-NFL player Aaron Hernandez commits suicide in prison 

Post#38 » by thebuzzardman » Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:34 pm

So, basically, the ordinary folks who can't afford big lawyers will get screwed (families of the victims) due to this law, while the NFL/Pats will wind up paying nothing, or nothing for years upon years, as they can afford top flight lawyers. Got it.
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Re: OT: Ex-NFL player Aaron Hernandez commits suicide in prison 

Post#39 » by N8isScofield » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:17 pm

Phish Tank wrote:
N8isScofield wrote:
Phish Tank wrote:
Yes, you are absolutely correct. Abatement an initio. Basically if a defendant dies and their case doesn't complete the appeals process, the conviction is automatically erased due to the principle that the defendant never had th chance to run through the appeals process.

What this means is that he will be treated as an innocent man in the legal system. The NFL will have to pay his pension. The Patriots will most likely have to pay his family the millions of dollars of bonuses and other guaranteed salary withheld once he was indicted and released from the team as he is now considered an innocent man in court.

What this also means is that the civil suits will continue, but will have a more difficult journey as typically the basis of the case is largely driven off the conviction. Now that he is dead and considered "innocent" in the legal eye, the plaintiffs may just drop this case.

The NFL and Patriots may try to block paying his estate the money. The family is going to fight for this money too. It's a terrible thing to see, because the daughter is going to have a really really tough time dealing with this situation.

Also, I think there was an inside job related to the suicide. Basically, I think he killed himself to help his fiancé and daughter and his fiancé was secretly aware of this too.

Legal experts: feel free to correct me anywhere I'm wrong.



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I'm not a legal expert by any means but it shouldn't have any bearing on a civil case where the burden of proof is much lower. OJ was acquitted and that didn't stop them from seizing all of his things when he lost the civil case to the Goldmans. The Patriots won't be on the hook for anything either because conviction or not he was incarcerated and unable to play. He signed a contract to play football. He was released because he was not going to be able to play football. Some posthumous symbolic horse sh*t is not going to change that, especially when our legal system is more about how good your lawyer is than the facts of a case. Robert Kraft has got way better lawyers than Hernandez's family can employ.


1) You're correct in that burden of proof is lower
2) OJ case was different b/c OJ was alive. Now, all civil suits will be against the estate and without a criminal conviction in place. The prosecution was relying on the conviction as a basis for winning the civil suit. Now it will be a lot harder
3) Aaron Hernandez was owed $3.25 million in a signing bonus when the Pats cut him. Here's a quote from an article 3 years ago on PFT:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/05/16/hernandez-contractual-clause-may-not-help-patriots-get-money-back/

CBS Boston has offered up a different take, based on a January 2013 report from former agent Joel Corry. Said Corry at the time: “Hernandez’s contract contains a clause where he represents and warrants that there weren’t any existing circumstances when he signed his deal that would prevent his continued availability throughout the contract. Committing or participating in a double murder should meet this standard. There’s another clause explicitly stating that the Patriots wouldn’t have entered into the contract except for Hernandez’s representations.”

The language cited by Corry doesn’t appear in the Standard Player Contract , which means that (if the report is accurate), the Patriots and Hernandez separately agreed to that language. Even so, the presence of the language doesn’t mean that the Patriots will be able to recover bonus money in a way that conflicts with the terms of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Paragraph 21 of the Standard Player Contract states that, if the player’s contract conflicts with the CBA, the CBA prevails. And the CBA sets forth the exclusive procedure for obtaining a forfeiture of money paid to the player.

At Article 4, Section 9, the CBA spells out the circumstances that allow money to be recovered. A “forfeitable breach” happens when a player under contract , for one of several reasons (including being in jail), fails to show up for work. If the Patriots hadn’t cut Hernandez, and if he had been unable to show up for work from 2013 through 2016, they could have recovered up to $10 million of his $12.5 million signing bonus.

But they cut him. By cutting him, they lost the ability to recover any of his signing bonus based on his failure to show up for work in any of the five years of the contract that the bonus covered, at $2.5 million per year


Basically, they were holding back his bonus money because of the claim that he was convicted for murder. But the conviction is gone now and there's no other language in the contract that precludes him from receiving that money.

4) Hernandez hired Jose Baez. He's one of the top defense attorneys in the biz.


I'll defer to you on 3 and 4. As far as the civil suit goes, it really doesn't matter that OJ is alive versus Hernandez being dead. Every shred of evidence that was used to get a conviction in the criminal case will be showing up in the civil case. It's not a double jeopardy situation. It's like there never was a trial. Who cares whether Hernandez is alive or not. He's on video holding a gun right after Odin Lloyd's death. That's easily enough for a civil judgment to be made against the estate. It's no different to someone coming after you if a deceased loved one owes money. You do not need a criminal conviction to get a settlement and people have gotten settlements without the (pardon the pun) "smoking gun" that he's literally holding on the surveillance tape. It's really irrelevant that the conviction gets vacated when you consider that there was enough evidence in a criminal trial to get a conviction. That evidence doesn't just fade into the wind. It will all be presented again and the Lloyd family will get a hefty chunk of whatever the Pats end up paying his estate.
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Re: OT: Ex-NFL player Aaron Hernandez commits suicide in prison 

Post#40 » by EricAnderson » Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:26 pm

N8isScofield wrote:
Greenie wrote:
el13adnino wrote:espn (outside the lines) just said that aaron hernandez had requested a trade in 2012 and N.E. declined his request. A.H. said that he couldnt be in n.e. anymore and needed a new start somewhere else.

Maybe he knew he needed to get away from some people.

He went away for college too.

Maybe if he was traded it could have saved lives.

He was a knucklehead in college at Florida where he also got into fights and brandished weapons at people but it was covered up by the university. He was going to be a scumbag wherever he was. People are trying too hard to humanize him like he wasn't an irredeemable sociopath.


We live in a society where some people glorify thug behavior

NFL players glorified him on instagram today which is sickening

Joe Haden said "he always kept it a hundred" our school systems are failing us

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