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Knicks Offseason Preview for RealGM

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Re: Knicks Offseason Preview for RealGM 

Post#21 » by Capn'O » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:52 am

Phil also had the connection with Uncle Horace in that case. Got the better of him.
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Re: Knicks Offseason Preview for RealGM 

Post#22 » by koogiking » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:57 am

Jerian Grant was a good pick though. And hes shooting well now too
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Re: Knicks Offseason Preview for RealGM 

Post#23 » by malik959 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:51 am

Grant was really playing well for us and looks good on the Bulls. Grant = J.Holiday to me as far as hustle and skill.
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Re: Knicks Offseason Preview for RealGM 

Post#24 » by TheDavinciCHODE » Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:11 am

Good stuff, Smitty. I agree with Capn, though, a bit longish on the previous season's moves in comparison to the offseason.

I think your concluding thoughts are right on par, though.

As far as the Knicks offseason, we should not be adding any players like JJ Redick or Nick Young.

Everything needs to revolve around this criteria:

- Will this player be part of the next great Knicks team?
- Does this player compliment the growth of KP and/or this year's lottery pick and are they affordable enough?
- Does this player bring intangibles to the table that will help this team grow (leadership, good character, defensive impact, ec)

Signing like JJ redick would actually hinder this team going forward. He'll be expensive, capping us out for certain right away. He'll also make us too good in the beginning. We don't want to aim for another 35 win season again. Our goal should not be to peak too early. Adding a guy like Hill, Reddick, or Holiday means we'll be fielding a team that's capped out and borderline 8-seed contender again but just barely bad enough to miss out, giving us a selection in the lottery somewhere in the 12-14 range. Not good.

Our goal should be to move forward with KP/lotto pick this year and put solid defenders and energy guys around them. Our expectations should not be to win a lot of games, but rather watch our two young stars grow and look forward to adding another high pick to the team next year.

Only once our core of organic stars has started to grow together and Noah's contract starts to wind down should we look to make a trade or big FA signing to compliment our core. Also, when Noah's in the final year of his deal, his expiring deal at 18mil will become somewhat of an asset rather than a burden if we don't mind taking on long-term salary (which we shouldn't at that point in time)

If we had a team of young energy guys like Baker, Ndour, KOQ, Holiday, KP, Fox and some heady vets that played tough like Dudley, Tucker, or Tony Allen, then the garden would be exciting each night and the fans wouldn't care about winning only 25-28 games.

Also, if the team is better than we expected because of the growth of KP and the skill of our lotto pick and we win 35 +, then there's no reason to be disappointed, because that's long-term, organic growth that's inexpensive and long-lasting, rather than our current team that's "win-now" capped out, and has no room for growth.

We expected to win big, traded assets, and capped ourselves out in the hopes of winning 50 games and winning playoff series and instead won 30 games in embarassing fashion. That's a disappointment. Fielding a young squad with hungry players that has room to grow into its skin and will be Knicks for 10 years or more and only winning 30 games is the complete opposite: something to be excited about.


So yeah, TL;DR - the Knicks should not make any big signing this offseason and should instead look to just play KP and our lotto pick together with a mix of young, cheap, hungry players and hard-nosed vets that will build a defensive culture (sign Matt Barnes type guys), win 25-30 games next season, pick again in the lotto, and then start building from outside via trades and free agent signing.

Once our organic core of young players is good enough to be borderline playoff contenders or more is when we need to strike. Of course, if a good deal comes around, then you've got to take it no matter what. If JJ wants to in NY for 3 years/45 mil (he won't), I'd sign him tomorrow.

Signing any "name" FA that caps us out is the exact definition of peaking too soon. Look to teams like NOP or SAC to see how far that'll get us. The Knicks have been Knicking too long, and it needs to stop.
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Re: Knicks Offseason Preview for RealGM 

Post#25 » by el13adnino » Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:59 am

your the dude who said sabonis was the "original unicorn" right?
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Re: Knicks Offseason Preview for RealGM 

Post#26 » by Adelheid » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:32 am

Sell our capspace for draft picks I say. There might be teams maxxing their guys and needs to offload big contracts. We should be there to swoop in.
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Re: Knicks Offseason Preview for RealGM 

Post#27 » by Smitty731 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:39 pm

el13adnino wrote:your the dude who said sabonis was the "original unicorn" right?


I am. And he was. There was not a 7-foot+ player who could handle the ball, pass, and shoot from the outside like he could before him.
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Re: Knicks Offseason Preview for RealGM 

Post#28 » by el13adnino » Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:16 pm

Smitty731 wrote:
el13adnino wrote:your the dude who said sabonis was the "original unicorn" right?


I am. And he was. There was not a 7-foot+ player who could handle the ball, pass, and shoot from the outside like he could before him.

except he was never called that in his day, you decided to name him that, google sabonis and unicorn and the only thing that comes up is articles written by keith smith (i have a pretty good idea on who that is)
then you went on to tell me that there are multiple unicorns in the league (kat,jokic,gasol)
my argument here is, it was a nickname that was given to kp and it stuck with him, i've never heard any1 call kat,jokic,gasol or sabonis a unicorn ... your argument is any1 over 7 feet who could handle the ball, pass, and shoot from the outside is a unicorn. right?
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Re: Knicks Offseason Preview for RealGM 

Post#29 » by knicksup19 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:56 pm

TheDavinciCHODE wrote:Good stuff, Smitty. I agree with Capn, though, a bit longish on the previous season's moves in comparison to the offseason.

I think your concluding thoughts are right on par, though.

As far as the Knicks offseason, we should not be adding any players like JJ Redick or Nick Young.

Everything needs to revolve around this criteria:

- Will this player be part of the next great Knicks team?
- Does this player compliment the growth of KP and/or this year's lottery pick and are they affordable enough?
- Does this player bring intangibles to the table that will help this team grow (leadership, good character, defensive impact, ec)

Signing like JJ redick would actually hinder this team going forward. He'll be expensive, capping us out for certain right away. He'll also make us too good in the beginning. We don't want to aim for another 35 win season again. Our goal should not be to peak too early. Adding a guy like Hill, Reddick, or Holiday means we'll be fielding a team that's capped out and borderline 8-seed contender again but just barely bad enough to miss out, giving us a selection in the lottery somewhere in the 12-14 range. Not good.

Our goal should be to move forward with KP/lotto pick this year and put solid defenders and energy guys around them. Our expectations should not be to win a lot of games, but rather watch our two young stars grow and look forward to adding another high pick to the team next year.

Only once our core of organic stars has started to grow together and Noah's contract starts to wind down should we look to make a trade or big FA signing to compliment our core. Also, when Noah's in the final year of his deal, his expiring deal at 18mil will become somewhat of an asset rather than a burden if we don't mind taking on long-term salary (which we shouldn't at that point in time)

If we had a team of young energy guys like Baker, Ndour, KOQ, Holiday, KP, Fox and some heady vets that played tough like Dudley, Tucker, or Tony Allen, then the garden would be exciting each night and the fans wouldn't care about winning only 25-28 games.

Also, if the team is better than we expected because of the growth of KP and the skill of our lotto pick and we win 35 +, then there's no reason to be disappointed, because that's long-term, organic growth that's inexpensive and long-lasting, rather than our current team that's "win-now" capped out, and has no room for growth.

We expected to win big, traded assets, and capped ourselves out in the hopes of winning 50 games and winning playoff series and instead won 30 games in embarassing fashion. That's a disappointment. Fielding a young squad with hungry players that has room to grow into its skin and will be Knicks for 10 years or more and only winning 30 games is the complete opposite: something to be excited about.


So yeah, TL;DR - the Knicks should not make any big signing this offseason and should instead look to just play KP and our lotto pick together with a mix of young, cheap, hungry players and hard-nosed vets that will build a defensive culture (sign Matt Barnes type guys), win 25-30 games next season, pick again in the lotto, and then start building from outside via trades and free agent signing.

Once our organic core of young players is good enough to be borderline playoff contenders or more is when we need to strike. Of course, if a good deal comes around, then you've got to take it no matter what. If JJ wants to in NY for 3 years/45 mil (he won't), I'd sign him tomorrow.

Signing any "name" FA that caps us out is the exact definition of peaking too soon. Look to teams like NOP or SAC to see how far that'll get us. The Knicks have been Knicking too long, and it needs to stop.



my thoughts exactly to the tee. but watch us sign George hill lol and keep melo and win 38 games
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Re: Knicks Offseason Preview for RealGM 

Post#30 » by dakomish23 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:25 pm

Hard to make an offseason review with so much still in flux.
Spoiler:
“Joakim is somebody who has been on my list for a long time,’’ Jackson: “He was initially our first choice in the first-agent market.


Dkillanyk4lyf wrote:Melo is the reason why we are in the mess we are in now.
Acquiring him was the biggest mistake in knicks history.
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Re: Knicks Offseason Preview for RealGM 

Post#31 » by Clyde Frazier » Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:36 pm

Smitty731 wrote:Hi all!

My offseason preview for RealGM is up. Love to hear your thoughts!

http://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/245688/2017-NBA-Offseason-Preview-New-York-Knicks

Full disclosure, this was written before Porzingis skipped his exit interview/meeting, but I don't think that means much for his future with the squad.

Thanks!

Smitty


Pretty fair writeup. Only 2 parts i’d pick at:

Lee was solid enough, as he produced in line with his career norms. As a player who is best suited to be a team’s fifth or sixth best player, he’s appropriately paid. The challenge is his value to a rebuilding Knicks team is superfluous. Rebuilding teams don’t need veterans, who are best fit on contenders, blocking the path to playing time of young players.


The knicks specifically have severely lacked in guard depth in phil’s time here as he’s ignored the importance of the position in today’s league. Lee is fairly paid and is basically mr. consistent on both ends. Rebuilding or not, i want his stability and production on this team. I’m not saying he’s “untouchable”, but there isn’t a reason to move him unless an attractive deal comes along.

The big question will be money and years, as Rose was mostly healthy, but did finish the season on the shelf due to injury once again. If Rose is willing to take a one-year deal, or two years with limited guaranteed money in year two, it would make sense for New York to bring him back. If not, they need to move on to younger, cheaper and healthier options.


I realize this is under the lens of the reported mutual interest in bringing rose back, but logically there’s absolutely no reason they should be considering it. The guy doesn’t pass the ball remotely enough for someone who gets to the rim at will, and even though he made it through the season, it still ended in season ending surgery. His best role would be as a 6th man scoring punch off the bench somewhere else.
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Re: Knicks Offseason Preview for RealGM 

Post#32 » by moocow007 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:58 pm

I'm wit Smitty on everything except for the bit about Swaggy P as a possibility in free agency. Swaggy P will confuse a Triangle for a Square and end up putting the ball in the opponents basket or rotating into the 3rd row waiting for a pass. :D
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Re: Knicks Offseason Preview for RealGM 

Post#33 » by Smitty731 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:35 pm

el13adnino wrote:
Smitty731 wrote:
el13adnino wrote:your the dude who said sabonis was the "original unicorn" right?


I am. And he was. There was not a 7-foot+ player who could handle the ball, pass, and shoot from the outside like he could before him.

except he was never called that in his day, you decided to name him that, google sabonis and unicorn and the only thing that comes up is articles written by keith smith (i have a pretty good idea on who that is)
then you went on to tell me that there are multiple unicorns in the league (kat,jokic,gasol)
my argument here is, it was a nickname that was given to kp and it stuck with him, i've never heard any1 call kat,jokic,gasol or sabonis a unicorn ... your argument is any1 over 7 feet who could handle the ball, pass, and shoot from the outside is a unicorn. right?


I didn't name him that. The idea was around the concept of a unicorn and not the nickname. And in today's NBA there are multiple unicorns. Back in Sabonis day there was him and that was it. No else could do what he could do.

So, it wasn't really about the nickname, but the concept.
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Re: Knicks Offseason Preview for RealGM 

Post#34 » by Wolfgang630 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:36 pm

I want the Knicks to be the next Bucks. The Bucks team could be contending for championships year after year.
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Re: Knicks Offseason Preview for RealGM 

Post#35 » by dakomish23 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:29 pm

Wolfgang630 wrote:I want the Knicks to be the next Bucks. The Bucks team could be contending for championships year after year.


Let's hope we get lucky and get a Knight Middleton return for a Jennings
Spoiler:
“Joakim is somebody who has been on my list for a long time,’’ Jackson: “He was initially our first choice in the first-agent market.


Dkillanyk4lyf wrote:Melo is the reason why we are in the mess we are in now.
Acquiring him was the biggest mistake in knicks history.
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Re: Knicks Offseason Preview for RealGM 

Post#36 » by Deeeez Knicks » Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:42 pm

Is our pick not factored into the projected cap space yet? Had us with a few mill less to spend
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Re: Knicks Offseason Preview for RealGM 

Post#37 » by thebuzzardman » Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:51 pm

Smitty731 wrote:
el13adnino wrote:
Smitty731 wrote:
I am. And he was. There was not a 7-foot+ player who could handle the ball, pass, and shoot from the outside like he could before him.

except he was never called that in his day, you decided to name him that, google sabonis and unicorn and the only thing that comes up is articles written by keith smith (i have a pretty good idea on who that is)
then you went on to tell me that there are multiple unicorns in the league (kat,jokic,gasol)
my argument here is, it was a nickname that was given to kp and it stuck with him, i've never heard any1 call kat,jokic,gasol or sabonis a unicorn ... your argument is any1 over 7 feet who could handle the ball, pass, and shoot from the outside is a unicorn. right?


I didn't name him that. The idea was around the concept of a unicorn and not the nickname. And in today's NBA there are multiple unicorns. Back in Sabonis day there was him and that was it. No else could do what he could do.

So, it wasn't really about the nickname, but the concept.


Bill Walton?
Nah, he couldn't hit the 3.
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Re: Knicks Offseason Preview for RealGM 

Post#38 » by The Bronx » Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:10 pm

Smitty731 wrote:Hi all!

My offseason preview for RealGM is up. Love to hear your thoughts!

http://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/245688/2017-NBA-Offseason-Preview-New-York-Knicks

Full disclosure, this was written before Porzingis skipped his exit interview/meeting, but I don't think that means much for his future with the squad.

Thanks!

Smitty

Didn't read but good job 8-)
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Re: Knicks Offseason Preview for RealGM 

Post#39 » by KnicksGod » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:16 pm

dakomish23 wrote:Hard to make an offseason review with so much still in flux.


Well it isn't a review. It's a preview.
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Re: Knicks Offseason Preview for RealGM 

Post#40 » by dakomish23 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:25 pm

KnicksGod wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:Hard to make an offseason review with so much still in flux.


Well it isn't a review. It's a preview.


Yeah that's what I meant. Autocorrect on my phone.

I think once trade Melo and see what we get, we could focus on next steps. Though there are some things we can still do regardless IE possibly trading Melo and getting a SF, shouldn't stop us from taking a SF in the draft.
Spoiler:
“Joakim is somebody who has been on my list for a long time,’’ Jackson: “He was initially our first choice in the first-agent market.


Dkillanyk4lyf wrote:Melo is the reason why we are in the mess we are in now.
Acquiring him was the biggest mistake in knicks history.

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