NFL Watch Thread

[E-Balla]

And the Seahawks still won more games than the Raiders last year

Not sure what you expect from rookie QBs

Marshawn is a 32 year old RB working his way back from retirement and Russell Wilson is the best QB to enter the league since Rodgers... No ****...

Longevity matters in this discussion. More chances to build that good team if it’s around a QB.

But its impossible to build a good team around a QB once they're past that first contract and making bank. The Seahawks missed the playoffs with the 3rd best player in the league on their team because they can't pay anyone else. Darnold isn't bad and he is a franchise QB the same as Jameis is but you have to be Russell Wilson, Andrew Luck, Cam Newton level to justify the contracts a franchise QB gets nowadays.

[Fury]

Marshawn is a 32 year old RB working his way back from retirement and Russell Wilson is the best QB to enter the league since Rodgers... No ****...

Longevity matters in this discussion. More chances to build that good team if it’s around a QB.

But its impossible to build a good team around a QB once they're past that first contract and making bank. The Seahawks missed the playoffs with the 3rd best player in the league on their team because they can't pay anyone else. Darnold isn't bad and he is a franchise QB the same as Jameis is but you have to be Russell Wilson, Andrew Luck, Cam Newton level to justify the contracts a franchise QB gets nowadays.

We don’t know what Darnold is. The Seahawks played in a tough NFC year but they’ll always be in it with Russ even with that contract. And yeah maybe has to be at that level some years but you take that over a 3-5 year period when your RB is the best player IMO.

[DowNY]

My point wasn't really about the Jets, I got no problem with them taking Darnold. But somebody said the Giants should have taken him over Barkley because their argument is that RBs don't move the needle in the playoffs and whatnot. That's kind of a silly argument, every QB no matter if they are Tom Brady in their prime or 3rd stringer, they dream of having an offensive weapon like Barkley, he makes the QBs job that much easier even if you have a HOF QB or not.

I said a generational RB doesn't move the needle to making the playoffs more than a franchise QB does. Then I listed great RBs over the past 10 years compared to halfway decent QBs. Wasn't taking a shot at RBs. Pretty sure a QB like Matthew Stafford would cry in his sleep from joy of having a RB like Barkley.

What constitutes a franchise QB though? Because the top 4 highest paid QBs in the league have 0 playoff wins and 8 of the top 10 missed the playoffs last year. There's a big difference between franchise QBs and elite QBs.

Highest paid is highest paid. Those contracts don't show value of said QB's talents. You think Kirk Cousins is the best QB in the NFL? Jimmy G is better than Brady? Brock Osweiler was highly paid just last year (& that's after he was waived).

Franchise QBs provides consistency amongst the position. Matt Ryan. Philip Rivers. Matthew Stafford to a lesser extent. Even Big Ben & Eli still, though it's obvious they've fallen off.

[E-Balla]

Generally speaking, how many "generational" backs are there per generation?

It seems like exaggeration because there's been a few in a row but prior to Fournette and Barkley the last one was probably Darren Mcfadden, then AP/Lynch, then Reggie Bush before him. Generational mainly means they have the talent to be the best RB of the decade and not that they're actually once in a generation prospects. Quite a few prospects have that kind of potential but all of them don't hit it. Same as how people call AD, Giannis, Embiid, and Simmons all generational when chances are only one takes that leap forward into generational territory.

[DowNY]

Marshawn is a 32 year old RB working his way back from retirement and Russell Wilson is the best QB to enter the league since Rodgers... No ****...

Longevity matters in this discussion. More chances to build that good team if it’s around a QB.

But its impossible to build a good team around a QB once they're past that first contract and making bank. The Seahawks missed the playoffs with the 3rd best player in the league on their team because they can't pay anyone else. Darnold isn't bad and he is a franchise QB the same as Jameis is but you have to be Russell Wilson, Andrew Luck, Cam Newton level to justify the contracts a franchise QB gets nowadays.

Not sure why we're talking contracts for Darnold & you're comparisons to Winston and he hasn't taken a snap yet. His next contract isn't even close. Eli Manning won ships after his rookie contract. The salary cap continues to grow. Jets themselves looking at $100M in cap next season again. All of that stuff doesn't matter right now. What if you guys have to pay OBJ & then Barkley QB money? We don't know what the future olds.

[E-Balla]

I said a generational RB doesn't move the needle to making the playoffs more than a franchise QB does. Then I listed great RBs over the past 10 years compared to halfway decent QBs. Wasn't taking a shot at RBs. Pretty sure a QB like Matthew Stafford would cry in his sleep from joy of having a RB like Barkley.

What constitutes a franchise QB though? Because the top 4 highest paid QBs in the league have 0 playoff wins and 8 of the top 10 missed the playoffs last year. There's a big difference between franchise QBs and elite QBs.

Highest paid is highest paid. Those contracts don't show value of said QB's talents. You think Kirk Cousins is the best QB in the NFL? Jimmy G is better than Brady? Brock Osweiler was highly paid just last year (& that's after he was waived).

Franchise QBs provides consistency amongst the position. Matt Ryan. Philip Rivers. Matthew Stafford to a lesser extent. Even Big Ben & Eli still, though it's obvious they've fallen off.

Those guys are clearly franchise QBs though. They wouldn't be paid like they are if they weren't. The Raiders are betting their future on Derek Carr for example.

[E-Balla]

Longevity matters in this discussion. More chances to build that good team if it’s around a QB.

But its impossible to build a good team around a QB once they're past that first contract and making bank. The Seahawks missed the playoffs with the 3rd best player in the league on their team because they can't pay anyone else. Darnold isn't bad and he is a franchise QB the same as Jameis is but you have to be Russell Wilson, Andrew Luck, Cam Newton level to justify the contracts a franchise QB gets nowadays.

Not sure why we're talking contracts for Darnold & you're comparisons to Winston and he hasn't taken a snap yet. His next contract isn't even close. Eli Manning won ships after his rookie contract. The salary cap continues to grow. Jets themselves looking at $100M in cap next season again. All of that stuff doesn't matter right now. What if you guys have to pay OBJ & then Barkley QB money? We don't know what the future olds.

Check the emblem I'm not a Giants fan. Just an Eagles fan mad they took Barkley and not Darnold. My main point is that guys like Darnold come along every year or every other year. Guys like Barkley come once every 5 years.

[E-Balla]

Longevity matters in this discussion. More chances to build that good team if it’s around a QB.

But its impossible to build a good team around a QB once they're past that first contract and making bank. The Seahawks missed the playoffs with the 3rd best player in the league on their team because they can't pay anyone else. Darnold isn't bad and he is a franchise QB the same as Jameis is but you have to be Russell Wilson, Andrew Luck, Cam Newton level to justify the contracts a franchise QB gets nowadays.

We don’t know what Darnold is. The Seahawks played in a tough NFC year but they’ll always be in it with Russ even with that contract. And yeah maybe has to be at that level some years but you take that over a 3-5 year period when your RB is the best player IMO.

I just don't agree. I'll take Leveon Bell at his contract over any non elite QB.

[Jose7]

Qb is overvalued but the entire offense of successful teams and The rule book is built around Qb play and down the field play calling..unless you’re lebron...Qb play is the most valuable position in team sports in recent years.

[Fat Kat]

An elite running back doesn't even guarantee a team the playoffs. A slightly less than elite QB does. Positional value folks

[cuyankees]

Marshawn is a 32 year old RB working his way back from retirement and Russell Wilson is the best QB to enter the league since Rodgers... No ****...

Longevity matters in this discussion. More chances to build that good team if it’s around a QB.

But its impossible to build a good team around a QB once they're past that first contract and making bank. The Seahawks missed the playoffs with the 3rd best player in the league on their team because they can't pay anyone else. Darnold isn't bad and he is a franchise QB the same as Jameis is but you have to be Russell Wilson, Andrew Luck, Cam Newton level to justify the contracts a franchise QB gets nowadays.

This!

Rams and Eagles are the blueprint, draft a QB and go all in before their next contract comes due bc as you said, it's damn near impossible to build a sustainable dynasty w your QB as 20%+ of your entire team's cap.

This is the main reason critics have come out against the Barkley pick.

[DowNY]

But its impossible to build a good team around a QB once they're past that first contract and making bank. The Seahawks missed the playoffs with the 3rd best player in the league on their team because they can't pay anyone else. Darnold isn't bad and he is a franchise QB the same as Jameis is but you have to be Russell Wilson, Andrew Luck, Cam Newton level to justify the contracts a franchise QB gets nowadays.

We don’t know what Darnold is. The Seahawks played in a tough NFC year but they’ll always be in it with Russ even with that contract. And yeah maybe has to be at that level some years but you take that over a 3-5 year period when your RB is the best player IMO.

I just don't agree. I'll take Leveon Bell at his contract over any non elite QB.

Leveon Bell has no contract & at 27 with the amount of carries he has? I'll take Jimmy G & Goff over him & his impending contract.

[DowNY]

An elite running back doesn't even guarantee a team the playoffs. A slightly less than elite QB does. Positional value folks

That's all I'm saying

[DowNY]

But its impossible to build a good team around a QB once they're past that first contract and making bank. The Seahawks missed the playoffs with the 3rd best player in the league on their team because they can't pay anyone else. Darnold isn't bad and he is a franchise QB the same as Jameis is but you have to be Russell Wilson, Andrew Luck, Cam Newton level to justify the contracts a franchise QB gets nowadays.

Not sure why we're talking contracts for Darnold & you're comparisons to Winston and he hasn't taken a snap yet. His next contract isn't even close. Eli Manning won ships after his rookie contract. The salary cap continues to grow. Jets themselves looking at $100M in cap next season again. All of that stuff doesn't matter right now. What if you guys have to pay OBJ & then Barkley QB money? We don't know what the future olds.

Check the emblem I'm not a Giants fan. Just an Eagles fan mad they took Barkley and not Darnold. My main point is that guys like Darnold come along every year or every other year. Guys like Barkley come once every 5 years.

Wasn't Wentz a QB that "come along every year or every other year"?
Not every elite QB were generational talents.
& as you posted yourself, some "generational talents" failed or didn't quite live up to the tag.
The term "generational" gets tossed around a lot.
Let's see if Barkley can outdo Zeke & Gurley first.

[E-Balla]

We don’t know what Darnold is. The Seahawks played in a tough NFC year but they’ll always be in it with Russ even with that contract. And yeah maybe has to be at that level some years but you take that over a 3-5 year period when your RB is the best player IMO.

I just don't agree. I'll take Leveon Bell at his contract over any non elite QB.

Leveon Bell has no contract & at 27 with the amount of carries he has? I'll take Jimmy G & Goff over him & his impending contract.

You're right but I mean his cap hit before the franchise tag. Leveon Bell was making 12 mil before the franchise tag to pick up 2000 yards a year. That's great production. And Jimmy G is under the cap for 37 mil next year and 25 mil a year on average after next season. No way I'm taking that over Leveon.

[E-Balla]

An elite running back doesn't even guarantee a team the playoffs. A slightly less than elite QB does. Positional value folks

That's all I'm saying

Let's say the elite QBs are the MVP type guys: Brady, Ryan, Rodgers, Brees, Wentz (last year), Wilson, Luck (when healthy), Cam (when healthy), and Ben. Right outside of them the best QBs are Stafford (missed the playoffs), Cousins (missed the playoffs), Carr (missed the playoffs), and Rivers (missed the playoffs). Franchise QBs that are short of being able to play at an elite level aren't getting you to the playoffs. I'd rather have a well balanced team than get a QB that isn't THAT guy because QBs that aren't THAT guy can't win you the big one without a squad but they'll get paid too much for a squad.

[DowNY]

I just don't agree. I'll take Leveon Bell at his contract over any non elite QB.

Leveon Bell has no contract & at 27 with the amount of carries he has? I'll take Jimmy G & Goff over him & his impending contract.

You're right but I mean his cap hit before the franchise tag. Leveon Bell was making 12 mil before the franchise tag to pick up 2000 yards a year. That's great production. And Jimmy G is under the cap for 37 mil next year and 25 mil a year on average after next season. No way I'm taking that over Leveon.

If Jimmy G stays on par with what we saw the past games he played for the 49ers, I'm absolutely taking that over Bell. Contracts all factored. 49ers got him and still a bunch of cap space with the cap still increasing every year. Wanna know how to maintain a great team around a franchise QB making that much?
Good scouts and smart trade backs in drafts.

[NBA Fan 1234]

This is how I see it -

The top top QBs are worth their weight. The thing is, QBs prices are going up so much to the point where even marginal starters are getting paid a lot of money. That's not money well spent, IMO.

So, think of it like this. Would you rather pay 25 million for a marginal starter, or 15 for an elite RB and spread the other 10 elsewhere? Just like in the NBA, cap management is huge. Look what happened with Seattle's cap management after the Super Bowl win.

[Fury]

An elite running back doesn't even guarantee a team the playoffs. A slightly less than elite QB does. Positional value folks

That's all I'm saying

Let's say the elite QBs are the MVP type guys: Brady, Ryan, Rodgers, Brees, Wentz (last year), Wilson, Luck (when healthy), Cam (when healthy), and Ben. Right outside of them the best QBs are Stafford (missed the playoffs), Cousins (missed the playoffs), Carr (missed the playoffs), and Rivers (missed the playoffs). Franchise QBs that are short of being able to play at an elite level aren't getting you to the playoffs. I'd rather have a well balanced team than get a QB that isn't THAT guy because QBs that aren't THAT guy can't win you the big one without a squad but they'll get paid too much for a squad.

All those guys are the only guys winning titles tho (Foles is the exception). You just gotta draft well every year and keep cap flexibility (which you still can with a huge contract. If you dont have that guy, drafting well isn’t enough

[E-Balla]

Not sure why we're talking contracts for Darnold & you're comparisons to Winston and he hasn't taken a snap yet. His next contract isn't even close. Eli Manning won ships after his rookie contract. The salary cap continues to grow. Jets themselves looking at $100M in cap next season again. All of that stuff doesn't matter right now. What if you guys have to pay OBJ & then Barkley QB money? We don't know what the future olds.

Check the emblem I'm not a Giants fan. Just an Eagles fan mad they took Barkley and not Darnold. My main point is that guys like Darnold come along every year or every other year. Guys like Barkley come once every 5 years.

Wasn't Wentz a QB that "come along every year or every other year"?
Not every elite QB were generational talents.
& as you posted yourself, some "generational talents" failed or didn't quite live up to the tag.
The term "generational" gets tossed around a lot.
Let's see if Barkley can outdo Zeke & Gurley first.

Ehh... Depends. Ask people like me that doubt FCS QBs and yeah he wasn't anything special. Ask guys that get paid to do this **** and he was generational. Mayock was screaming that he was can't miss, I remember reports that Sean Payton was in love with Wentz pre-draft (he later said Wentz was the best prospect since Luck), but you're right that many didn't see it coming. I think that's a D2 thing though. No one really watches them or knows how to account for the level of play unless they're real scouts.

And I don't think Barkley has to out do those two. If he can perform at their level he's worth the pick. 1500-2000 yards from scrimmage and 10+ TDs a year isn't easy to replace production.