We're Not Beating the Warriors or Even the Cavs. The 20's Are Our Decade!

[Scalabrine]

We all need to face the facts here... we aren't going to be able to put a team together that can compete for a championship. Not as long as the Warriors core are all in their prime at least. So why should we be going after any free agents that will only help us compete for a first and second round exit in the next few years? Instead we should be collecting draft picks, looking for guys who haven't gotten the chance (the next Lin or Whiteside). I posted this in another thread but felt like it deserved it's own discussion so here we are. The reasoning:

On one hand, draft picks are more valuable then ever. In a league where guys like Chandler Parsons, Evan Turner, Joakim Noah, Timofey Mozgov, Luol Deng, and Allen Crabbe are all getting deals near 20 million dollars per year as free agents, having a productive player - or even better All Star level player - on a rookie contract is about as high value as you can get. Lance Thomas is going to be making more then Markelle Fultz next season. The 15th pick is going to be making 1.97 mil next year and a combined 7 mil over his first 3 seasons. Having a rotation level player, either through the draft or through FA, on a small team controlled long-term contract like that is so valuable. It gives you more flexibility to overpay on some of these FA's that fit your roster. For example, Joakim Noah is considered a very overpaid contract compared to the value of his deal but since we have KP, Hernangomez, and O'Quinn on such team friendly deals, we're only spending 28 million (about a 1/4 of the cap) on a pretty solid 4/5 rotation for the next 3 seasons. Enes Kanter and Steven Adams are making a combined 40 million next season, that's two players that can't really play together making a significant amount more then our 4 guys.

On the other hand this is a familiar story that we have seen before... Malik Rose and 2 firsts (became David Lee and Mardy Collins), Jalen Rose and a pick (Renaldo Balkman) for an expiring Antonio Davis, with Stephon Marbury came Penny Hardaway's unmovable deal that we received for expiring deals and picks, absorbing Quentin Richardsons bloated deal got us a first round pick that became Nate Robinson. At the time most fans were pretty happy about these deals because we were getting picks in exchange for taking on bad deals, but how did that work out? At the same time it's a different league now, and we are a different team. Even if Chris Paul decided to sign here for whatever capspace we had, we still aren't going to win, and we will be disappointed.

Our window is not now. We need to be building to put a team together for 2020 and beyond, when the Warriors core will be on the wrong side of 30 and trending down and LeBron will be entering his late 30's and thinking about which team he is going to buy. There is NO WAY we can pull a team together that will be able to start competing for a championship while those guys are still in their prime so we need to collect some young players and assets to build a foundation that can compete in 3-4 years. We already have a really nice 4 and 5, we have the 8th pick this year, we own all of our future picks... we need to be looking at deals that will improve us in 3-4 years, not at ones that will make us better in the next 1 or 2. With that logic taking on some ugly contracts of decent players that come attached with picks and future assets seems like a solid plan. If we could absorb a player from Portland while getting a pick or two, if we can trade Melo to Boston and try to get back the 19' Memphis/Clippers picks, I really don't care that much who the players that we are getting currently are (I would love any of Harkless, Crowder, Smart, Bradley), I care more that their deals end in 3-4 years and they aren't great enough to make us better then we should be immediately. We need to be looking at teams that are looking to compete right now, general managers that may be on the hot-seat and looking to unload some contracts while sacrificing future assets, that may not be that great in 3-4 years. The Grizzlies, Cavs, Clippers, Hawks, etc. of the league and try to make deals with them with the focus on getting some first rounders in 2019 and beyond and continue to build around KP, Hernangomez, our picks, and finding some hard working hungry studs like Baker and Randle and hope they can put it all together.

Who are some young guys that haven't had the opportunity that we could maybe grab? Any sort of plan that would follow this line of thinking? Anyone in disagreement here?

Keep the eye on the prize.

[HarthorneWingo]

You better not be lying to me.

[mpharris36]

O' rly?

[Scalabrine]

Heres a mock-offseason of what I'm talking about:

1) Draft the best player available
My draft rankings:
1. Fultz
2. Fox
3. Jackson
4. Ball
5. Tatum
6. Monk
7. Smith
8. Ntilinka
9. Isaac

I'd be fine with any of them honestly.

2) Draft day deal:
Courtney Lee and Lance Thomas for Evan Turner and Mo Harkless and the number 15 pick. Blazers save roughly 30 million in salary and lux tax, we get a pick and a fairly young player with two way potential, and a guy that in theory could play in the triangle and gives comedic interviews. Draft OG or Jackson with the pick.

3) Trade Melo:
3 deals in order of preference based on the places he's already agreed to waive his NTC to.
Boston:
1 of Crowder/Smart/Bradley (in that order) and 2 of Clippers 2019, Memphis 2019, Boston 2018 first (in that order), Trade exception.
for Melo.

Clippers
Jamal Crawford, Austin Rivers, 2021 first round pick, right to swap in 2022, and 2023 first round pick.

Cavs: find a third team to take on Smith/Shumpert while giving us their 2019 and 2021 first round picks, don't really care what we get back, just don't want either of them.

4) use our capspace to absorb more mediocre contracts that end in 2019 or 20 in exchange for draft picks.

Lets suck now and be better later!

Core: KP, Hernangomez, Frank, OG - Smart, O'Quinn
Future picks: ALL OF OUR OWN PICKS!!!, Clippers 2019, Celtics 2018, whatever we can get in exchange for bad contracts.

[F N 11]

Isiah dethroned the Lakers and Celtics. Guys get dethroned all the time why cant it be us.

[sol537]

I agree that we should be building for contention in 2020 / 2021 range and hope to have a team that can contend for a decade + like the Knicks of the 90's. That is the smartest play right now.

That is what Philly is doing.

[Dantares]

If kp and Willy become a monster 40/20 frontcourt and our #8 pick becomes a stud then intentionally putting bad players around them so they can lose games is counter productive. If you have a strong core to build around then you want to win as many games as possible. We don't even know how good kp, Willy and our 8th pick can become. What if we strike gold and end up getting the best player in this draft.

[Capn'O]

First off, you're right. Second:

Lance Thomas is going to be making more then Markelle Fultz next season.

This is perhaps the perfect piece of information to bolster my argument of "**** the rookie scale." Next to figuring out a better system for player development, getting rid of the rookie scale (or massively raising it) is the biggest thing the league could do to improving its product*. In one fell swoop you can stop tanking and creating parity. The current system rewards tankers so thoroughly. Gee, who would you rather? Markelle or Lance?

*Not, of course, until after we tank again next year. Thanks.

[ctorres]

Isiah dethroned the Lakers and Celtics. Guys get dethroned all the time why cant it be us.

Injuries and suspensions are always bound to happen too.

[thebuzzardman]

It's weird how many teams go nuts trying to be competitive, when only less than a handful every 5 years have a shot at the championship. It's even stranger when that team is in one of the major markets, and in a northeastern major market, where there is less fun outside stuff to do in the winter when the league takes place. (Meaning, NYC isn't Miami or L.A.). Such a team, where there is basically a license to print money in terms of getting gate, could do ANYTHING and put asses in seats (hello teh Scott Layden\Isiah Thomas years) because on any given night, there is goodly number of people to whom a few hundred dollars isn't denting their budget and they want some entertainment.

You'd think such a team could be excessively patient and really take the time to build a contender because even the sh*tiest years teams brought in a nice gate and made nice $ for their somewhat wacky blues singing owner.

I guess the other way to look at it is, why bother trying that hard to be good when being sh*t works too.

[HEZI]

First off, you're right. Second:

Lance Thomas is going to be making more then Markelle Fultz next season.

This is perhaps the perfect piece of information to bolster my argument of "**** the rookie scale." Next to figuring out a better system for player development, getting rid of the rookie scale (or massively raising it) is the biggest thing the league could do to improving its product*. In one fell swoop you can stop tanking and creating parity. The current system rewards tankers so thoroughly. Gee, who would you rather? Markelle or Lance?

*Not, of course, until after we tank again next year. Thanks.

The rookie scale has barely moved over the years, even with an increased salary cap. If it were up to the NBA, they would prefer it if guys would sign 10 year rookie deals

[Marty McFly]

It's kinda sad that this needs to be said, But yeah.

i think we have our "Klay" piece in kp. I think he as the potential to be a second banana on a chip contending team.

Over the course of the next few years, were going to have to luck out to find our number 1 guy. I have no idea if we will.

[Thugger HBC]

First off, you're right. Second:

Lance Thomas is going to be making more then Markelle Fultz next season.

This is perhaps the perfect piece of information to bolster my argument of "**** the rookie scale." Next to figuring out a better system for player development, getting rid of the rookie scale (or massively raising it) is the biggest thing the league could do to improving its product*. In one fell swoop you can stop tanking and creating parity. The current system rewards tankers so thoroughly. Gee, who would you rather? Markelle or Lance?

*Not, of course, until after we tank again next year. Thanks.

I really can't see any benefit to getting rid of the rookie scale, not really sure raising it would be good either. These young men have to prove their worth. their money is already with guarantee, no need to make it more.

As far as parity goes, there's no real way to make it more even, but a solid way to kill tanking is to have the draft system totally revamped where the pick are slated to teams regardless of record.

In three year intervals every team gets a top 10 lottery pick, a mid pick and a low pick.

Lets say for the next 30 drafts if this started in 2018 the Cavs have....

2018 1st
2019 28th
2020 17th
2021 6th
2022 23rd
2023 19th
2024 2nd
2025 26th
202618th and so on.

No point of tanking, your record can't alter your already known position. No here is where the benefit can come in. That listed 2018 1st overall pick belongs to the Cavs for instance. They are already a title contender, but they have this #1 overall pick to dangle around. The top pick isn't likely to be a major contributor to their quest, but a player they can acquire for it certainly could be.

NY is looking for a rebuild and have a player that may help the Cavs in Melo (ignore the NTC for a sec.), but they aren't limited to the Cavs, some of those other 9 lotto teams may be playoff teams as well, because once again the draft wont be based on record, it's predetermined.

It also keep the Brooklyn Nets from being the Brooklyn Nets under Billy King. Even if they didn't think they'd stink in 2018 for instance, they would know where their pick in that year is predetermined to be.

[br7knicks]

It's kinda sad that this needs to be said, But yeah.

i think we have our "Klay" piece in kp. I think he as the potential to be a second banana on a chip contending team.

Over the course of the next few years, were going to have to luck out to find our number 1 guy. I have no idea if we will.

This is going to be key. Gsw got lucky with curry (while he wasn't seen as a scrub, there were others initially rated better than him, which is why he didn't go top 5 - don't even think he was top 3 for PGs?).

Knicks lucked out with porzingis so far, but they need to get very lucky again with this draft

[god shammgod]

Isiah dethroned the Lakers and Celtics. Guys get dethroned all the time why cant it be us.

because we suck ?

[Capn'O]

First off, you're right. Second:

Lance Thomas is going to be making more then Markelle Fultz next season.

This is perhaps the perfect piece of information to bolster my argument of "**** the rookie scale." Next to figuring out a better system for player development, getting rid of the rookie scale (or massively raising it) is the biggest thing the league could do to improving its product*. In one fell swoop you can stop tanking and creating parity. The current system rewards tankers so thoroughly. Gee, who would you rather? Markelle or Lance?

*Not, of course, until after we tank again next year. Thanks.

I really can't see any benefit to getting rid of the rookie scale, not really sure raising it would be good either. These young men have to prove their worth. their money is already with guarantee, no need to make it more.

As far as parity goes, there's no real way to make it more even, but a solid way to kill tanking is to have the draft system totally revamped where the pick are slated to teams regardless of record.

In three year intervals every team gets a top 10 lottery pick, a mid pick and a low pick.

Lets say for the next 30 drafts if this started in 2018 the Cavs have....

2018 1st
2019 28th
2020 17th
2021 6th
2022 23rd
2023 19th
2024 2nd
2025 26th
202618th and so on.

No point of tanking, your record can't alter your already known position. No here is where the benefit can come in. That listed 2018 1st overall pick belongs to the Cavs for instance. They are already a title contender, but they have this #1 overall pick to dangle around. The top pick isn't likely to be a major contributor to their quest, but a player they can acquire for it certainly could be.

NY is looking for a rebuild and have a player that may help the Cavs in Melo (ignore the NTC for a sec.), but they aren't limited to the Cavs, some of those other 9 lotto teams may be playoff teams as well, because once again the draft wont be based on record, it's predetermined.

It also keep the Brooklyn Nets from being the Brooklyn Nets under Billy King. Even if they didn't think they'd stink in 2018 for instance, they would know where their pick in that year is predetermined to be.

You know, I was gonna come in and defend dropping the rookie scale because I do think it exacerbates the tanking problem with the way the draft is currently run but that's a neat idea to just totally revamp the draft process. And I HATE most of the ideas. Devil could be in the details such as weaving in any expansions and contractions but on its face, I really like it. Just plan the whole thing out thirty years and let teams plan with all of the information in front of them.

[Knicks Byke]

ibtl

[Thugger HBC]

First off, you're right. Second:



This is perhaps the perfect piece of information to bolster my argument of "**** the rookie scale." Next to figuring out a better system for player development, getting rid of the rookie scale (or massively raising it) is the biggest thing the league could do to improving its product*. In one fell swoop you can stop tanking and creating parity. The current system rewards tankers so thoroughly. Gee, who would you rather? Markelle or Lance?

*Not, of course, until after we tank again next year. Thanks.

I really can't see any benefit to getting rid of the rookie scale, not really sure raising it would be good either. These young men have to prove their worth. their money is already with guarantee, no need to make it more.

As far as parity goes, there's no real way to make it more even, but a solid way to kill tanking is to have the draft system totally revamped where the pick are slated to teams regardless of record.

In three year intervals every team gets a top 10 lottery pick, a mid pick and a low pick.

Lets say for the next 30 drafts if this started in 2018 the Cavs have....

2018 1st
2019 28th
2020 17th
2021 6th
2022 23rd
2023 19th
2024 2nd
2025 26th
202618th and so on.

No point of tanking, your record can't alter your already known position. No here is where the benefit can come in. That listed 2018 1st overall pick belongs to the Cavs for instance. They are already a title contender, but they have this #1 overall pick to dangle around. The top pick isn't likely to be a major contributor to their quest, but a player they can acquire for it certainly could be.

NY is looking for a rebuild and have a player that may help the Cavs in Melo (ignore the NTC for a sec.), but they aren't limited to the Cavs, some of those other 9 lotto teams may be playoff teams as well, because once again the draft wont be based on record, it's predetermined.

It also keep the Brooklyn Nets from being the Brooklyn Nets under Billy King. Even if they didn't think they'd stink in 2018 for instance, they would know where their pick in that year is predetermined to be.

You know, I was gonna come in and defend dropping the rookie scale because I do think it exacerbates the tanking problem with the way the draft is currently run but that's a neat idea to just totally revamp the draft process. And I HATE most of the ideas. Devil could be in the details such as weaving in any expansions and contractions but on its face, I really like it. Just plan the whole thing out thirty years and let teams plan with all of the information in front of them.

I think it would work out rather well for teams that have those picks and want established players or teams that know hey this particular year we'll have such and such picks. Either way tanking is eliminated

[nykballa2k4]

First off, you're right. Second:

Lance Thomas is going to be making more then Markelle Fultz next season.

This is perhaps the perfect piece of information to bolster my argument of "**** the rookie scale." Next to figuring out a better system for player development, getting rid of the rookie scale (or massively raising it) is the biggest thing the league could do to improving its product*. In one fell swoop you can stop tanking and creating parity. The current system rewards tankers so thoroughly. Gee, who would you rather? Markelle or Lance?

*Not, of course, until after we tank again next year. Thanks.

IMO they should do away with the NBA draft OR make it an auction draft where you can spend up to something redic like 20M (if you have cap space, maybe a MLE, perhaps called draft pick exception if you don't). Each team can only walk away with 2 guys, you can still trade rights and cap space.

[Marty McFly]

It's kinda sad that this needs to be said, But yeah.

i think we have our "Klay" piece in kp. I think he as the potential to be a second banana on a chip contending team.

Over the course of the next few years, were going to have to luck out to find our number 1 guy. I have no idea if we will.

This is going to be key. Gsw got lucky with curry (while he wasn't seen as a scrub, there were others initially rated better than him, which is why he didn't go top 5 - don't even think he was top 3 for PGs?).

Knicks lucked out with porzingis so far, but they need to get very lucky again with this draft

Jackson could have a been our Draymond piece, i think.