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Knicks_Fan2 wrote:

boomann21 wrote:Arya trained under the Hound and "No One" and has the ability to change faces after she kills someone, not to mention she a master assassin. Bran is a Warg who can see the past and present while taking a few glances into possible futures. Jon Snow is a Resurrected Targaryen God of some sort who soon will be able to ride Dragons. Tell me more how Sansa has changed just as much as the others. Sansa has just been passed from Joffery, to Tyrion, to Bolton, and now warming up to Little Finger. What secret powers or training did she get exposed to from the bedside of incapable men?

And who is king of the realm right now? Not anyone with supernatural powers. Who started this war? Littlefinger, not someone with any supernatural powers. She learned from both and is clearly not as dense or trusting as Ned/Rob/Jon. That's what makes her strong; she knows how to play the game.

You might be right. I just have not fancied Sansa since the first season when she betrayed the fam just so she can try and sit on Jeffery's sausage. She ended up getting her own Dire Wolf killed and Arya was forced to make her wolf flee for its life. Never forgave her for that transgression even though her being brutally raped and habitually victimized has given me a soft spot for her. If she learned anything I hope it's to stick with her family, but the way she is undermining Jon at every turn I'm starting to have my doubts about her character again.

Caramel_Anton wrote:

Blockwatcher wrote:

Caramel_Anton wrote:
I noticed this too - Was wondering about that myself.

Word. When he hugged arya I said to my wife "o , I didn't think he still had feelings" even the broad who was his sled dog for hundreds of miles brought nothing out of him... then he hugs arya?

I always felt there was a strong kinship between Bran / Arya / Jon that wasn't quite there with the other 3 children. Am I alone in this? Bran & Arya were the only two siblings that really embraced Jon as a true brother regardless of his status as bastard. I always used that to base my judgment off of for the children and it's always been why Arya & Jon were/are my two favorite characters in the show. Bran has been losing me for a long time lol but I always did like him when he was still Bran.

sansa was the only standoffish one( because of catelyn), they never really captured what a giant **** book catelyn was. but for the most part the rest of the siblings were incredibly close.

hell even theon thought of the starks are siblings when he wasnt being a brooding twat.

"Robb who had been more a brother to Theon than any son born of Balon Greyjoy's loins. Murdered at the Red Wedding, butchered by the Freys. I should have been with him. Where was I? I should have died with him."

Sansa's evolution as a leader was more on display in the books (the game she plays in the Vale and with Robyn is some strong manipulation learned from the best). She's learned to survive from Cersei and Little Finger; learned the Tyrell trickery from Margery; and showed practical leadership on the show with her grain storage and leather armor clip (short but shows you growth). Also, having her troops roll through in the nick of time reminded me of Tywin at Blackwater but I'm so far removed from that scene I could be off on the comparison.

The Sansa look at Arya to me was more like "what has she been through since we split up." Her brother came back omniscient. Now her little sister is back and strong enough to make Brienne work. She went from chuckling about the list in the tomb to curious about the list by the weirwood and then was worried about it outside the training grounds.

I'll say it again though and I realize it'll prolly annoy some heads, but the books do a better job showing her development. I think each Stark is bringing a different strength to the table. Sansa understands manipulation, Arya knows how to kill, Bran has unlimited wisdom once he figures out his power and Jon Snow is a natural leader of men.

boomann21 wrote:

Knicks_Fan2 wrote:

boomann21 wrote:Arya trained under the Hound and "No One" and has the ability to change faces after she kills someone, not to mention she a master assassin. Bran is a Warg who can see the past and present while taking a few glances into possible futures. Jon Snow is a Resurrected Targaryen God of some sort who soon will be able to ride Dragons. Tell me more how Sansa has changed just as much as the others. Sansa has just been passed from Joffery, to Tyrion, to Bolton, and now warming up to Little Finger. What secret powers or training did she get exposed to from the bedside of incapable men?

And who is king of the realm right now? Not anyone with supernatural powers. Who started this war? Littlefinger, not someone with any supernatural powers. She learned from both and is clearly not as dense or trusting as Ned/Rob/Jon. That's what makes her strong; she knows how to play the game.

You might be right. I just have not fancied Sansa since the first season when she betrayed the fam just so she can try and sit on Jeffery's sausage. She ended up getting her own Dire Wolf killed and Arya was forced to make her wolf flee for its life. Never forgave her for that transgression even though her being brutally raped and habitually victimized has given me a soft spot for her. If she learned anything I hope it's to stick with her family, but the way she is undermining Jon at every turn I'm starting to have my doubts about her character again.

that's not what she's doing, the starks and their honour have a way of getting them killed. so far every undermining she's done has\should have been done. john should have elevated the families of the people died for him

Caramel_Anton wrote:

Knicks_Fan2 wrote:

Caramel_Anton wrote:
Jorah doesn't have a Valyrian steel sword. He's the rightful heir to Longclaw (Jon's sword) but I wouldn't be surprised if Sam gave Jorah Heart's Bane and asked that if he ever encounters Jon Snow, to be a friend. That'd be cool - What's Sam's fat ass going to do with Heart's Bane?

Would be pretty cool for Jon to give longclaw to Jorah.

It'd be a very "Jon" thing to do. It'd be cool if he discovers Blackfyre & Dark Sister while mining for dragon glass. Perhaps before Jorah arrives. That way, when Dany sees Jon hand over such a valuable weapon in the name of Honor to house Mormont, she feels he deserves one of the two legendary Targaryan blades in his conquest against the dead. Perhaps Jon's peepee will have already been inside her at this point too - to make the gift make more sense.

the last wielder of dark sister was bloodraven, who took it with him when he went to the wall, and the last person who had possession of blackfyre was bittersteel, his sworn enemy, who took it with him to essos.

boomann21 wrote:

Marty McFly wrote:

boomann21 wrote:
Arya trained under the Hound and "No One" and has the ability to change faces after she kills someone, not to mention she a master assassin. Bran is a Warg who can see the past and present while taking a few glances into possible futures. Jon Snow is a Resurrected Targaryen God of some sort who soon will be able to ride Dragons. Tell me more how Sansa has changed just as much as the others. Sansa has just been passed from Joffery, to Tyrion, to Bolton, and now warming up to Little Finger. What secret powers or training did she get exposed to from the bedside of incapable men?

not everyone has to become a faceswapping assassin nor an all seeing tree-god. some of them become politicians. being handy in a fight does not preclude someone from surviving. if anything the opposite is true.

You forgot Resurrected Drgaon riding Targaryen God also known as the King of the North

He'll likely end up the king of the realm thanks to bran, if he can survive the long night. with both bran and arya having next to no interest in ruling, sansa will remain lady of winterfell.

Meat wrote:

boomann21 wrote:

Knicks_Fan2 wrote:
And who is king of the realm right now? Not anyone with supernatural powers. Who started this war? Littlefinger, not someone with any supernatural powers. She learned from both and is clearly not as dense or trusting as Ned/Rob/Jon. That's what makes her strong; she knows how to play the game.

You might be right. I just have not fancied Sansa since the first season when she betrayed the fam just so she can try and sit on Jeffery's sausage. She ended up getting her own Dire Wolf killed and Arya was forced to make her wolf flee for its life. Never forgave her for that transgression even though her being brutally raped and habitually victimized has given me a soft spot for her. If she learned anything I hope it's to stick with her family, but the way she is undermining Jon at every turn I'm starting to have my doubts about her character again.

that's not what she's doing, the starks and their honour have a way of getting them killed. so far every undermining she's done has\should have been done. john should have elevated the families of the people died for him

That would of been given more power to Little Finger. You don't think that was a power play by Little Finger suggesting they give castle's to the people loyal to the Stark's during the Battle of the Bastards?

Sansa is the only Stark that can play the game.

Jon is a lovable, honorable guy who can easily be backstabbed without a Sansa to advise him.

Arya is an expert killer.

Bran can see lots of ****.

Everyone fills a role.

Marty McFly wrote:

Caramel_Anton wrote:

Knicks_Fan2 wrote:
Would be pretty cool for Jon to give longclaw to Jorah.

It'd be a very "Jon" thing to do. It'd be cool if he discovers Blackfyre & Dark Sister while mining for dragon glass. Perhaps before Jorah arrives. That way, when Dany sees Jon hand over such a valuable weapon in the name of Honor to house Mormont, she feels he deserves one of the two legendary Targaryan blades in his conquest against the dead. Perhaps Jon's peepee will have already been inside her at this point too - to make the gift make more sense.

the last wielder of dark sister was bloodraven, who took it with him when he went to the wall, and the last person who had possession of blackfyre was bittersteel, his sworn enemy, who took it with him to essos.

They just mentioned the golden company last week, if they bring them over which i dont think they will nor can i can't imagine the have the budget for battle elephants but they can use one of the blackfyre generals and not homeless harry. i could totally see this happening

j4remi wrote:Sansa's evolution as a leader was more on display in the books (the game she plays in the Vale and with Robyn is some strong manipulation learned from the best). She's learned to survive from Cersei and Little Finger; learned the Tyrell trickery from Margery; and showed practical leadership on the show with her grain storage and leather armor clip (short but shows you growth). Also, having her troops roll through in the nick of time reminded me of Tywin at Blackwater but I'm so far removed from that scene I could be off on the comparison.

The Sansa look at Arya to me was more like "what has she been through since we split up." Her brother came back omniscient. Now her little sister is back and strong enough to make Brienne work. She went from chuckling about the list in the tomb to curious about the list by the weirwood and then was worried about it outside the training grounds.

I'll say it again though and I realize it'll prolly annoy some heads, but the books do a better job showing her development. I think each Stark is bringing a different strength to the table. Sansa understands manipulation, Arya knows how to kill, Bran has unlimited wisdom once he figures out his power and Jon Snow is a natural leader of men.

Sansa has probably grown the most of all the Stark children. Arya was always a little kick ass spark plug. Bran was always a curious explorer. Jon was always Ned Jr. Sansa though ... She went from being the annoying **** brat of an older sister who had dreams of glamour and popularity to a very cold, curt & intelligent leader who wants what is best for her people. She learned the game by watching it first hand and is now a major player in said game. Arya is just now getting herself involved in the game and I think the Stark sisters if they work together can really become legendary.

With Sansa's vast knowledge of all the players and how they operate, her skills at diplomacy & manipulation and her cold blooded demeanor, mixed with Arya's cold blooded & unmatched assassin abilities and genuine hatred for many of the remaining players in the game - They can handle things while Jon & Bran handle the army of the dead. I really hope Sansa & Arya team up. They are perfect for one another now.

j4remi wrote:Sansa's evolution as a leader was more on display in the books (the game she plays in the Vale and with Robyn is some strong manipulation learned from the best). She's learned to survive from Cersei and Little Finger; learned the Tyrell trickery from Margery; and showed practical leadership on the show with her grain storage and leather armor clip (short but shows you growth). Also, having her troops roll through in the nick of time reminded me of Tywin at Blackwater but I'm so far removed from that scene I could be off on the comparison.

The Sansa look at Arya to me was more like "what has she been through since we split up." Her brother came back omniscient. Now her little sister is back and strong enough to make Brienne work. She went from chuckling about the list in the tomb to curious about the list by the weirwood and then was worried about it outside the training grounds.

I'll say it again though and I realize it'll prolly annoy some heads, but the books do a better job showing her development. I think each Stark is bringing a different strength to the table. Sansa understands manipulation, Arya knows how to kill, Bran has unlimited wisdom once he figures out his power and Jon Snow is a natural leader of men.

Yea Sansa definitely is the most politically experienced of the bunch ..a valuable trait that shouldn't be overlooked... one of the best examples was when she told Jon that Rickon was as good as dead as a result of his strong claim to the North, and that Ramsey lays traps... he doesn't fall into them. She understands the "game of thrones" and observed the best playing it.. Cersei, LF, Olenna, Tyrion, Margery, Ramsey, etc

I think that look she had watching Arya was a combo of two things... the realization that her little sister's list is actually real and that she did most of the killing which probably disgusts her a bit and worries her at the same time.

spree8 wrote:

j4remi wrote:Sansa's evolution as a leader was more on display in the books (the game she plays in the Vale and with Robyn is some strong manipulation learned from the best). She's learned to survive from Cersei and Little Finger; learned the Tyrell trickery from Margery; and showed practical leadership on the show with her grain storage and leather armor clip (short but shows you growth). Also, having her troops roll through in the nick of time reminded me of Tywin at Blackwater but I'm so far removed from that scene I could be off on the comparison.

The Sansa look at Arya to me was more like "what has she been through since we split up." Her brother came back omniscient. Now her little sister is back and strong enough to make Brienne work. She went from chuckling about the list in the tomb to curious about the list by the weirwood and then was worried about it outside the training grounds.

I'll say it again though and I realize it'll prolly annoy some heads, but the books do a better job showing her development. I think each Stark is bringing a different strength to the table. Sansa understands manipulation, Arya knows how to kill, Bran has unlimited wisdom once he figures out his power and Jon Snow is a natural leader of men.

Yea Sansa definitely is the most politically experienced of the bunch ..a valuable trait that shouldn't be overlooked... one of the best examples was when she told Jon that Rickon was as good as dead as a result of his strong claim to the North, and that Ramsey lays traps... he doesn't fall into them. She understands the "game of thrones" and observed the best playing it.. Cersei, LF, Olenna, Tyrion, Margery, Ramsey, etc

I think that look she had watching Arya was a combo of two things... the realization that her little sister's list is actually real and that she did most of the killing which probably disgusts her a bit and worries her at the same time.

I don't think Sansa is opposed to killing anymore (Ramsay) I think it's more the fact she is worried since she's her little sister and surprised the list is real.

Smash3 wrote:

spree8 wrote:

j4remi wrote:Sansa's evolution as a leader was more on display in the books (the game she plays in the Vale and with Robyn is some strong manipulation learned from the best). She's learned to survive from Cersei and Little Finger; learned the Tyrell trickery from Margery; and showed practical leadership on the show with her grain storage and leather armor clip (short but shows you growth). Also, having her troops roll through in the nick of time reminded me of Tywin at Blackwater but I'm so far removed from that scene I could be off on the comparison.

The Sansa look at Arya to me was more like "what has she been through since we split up." Her brother came back omniscient. Now her little sister is back and strong enough to make Brienne work. She went from chuckling about the list in the tomb to curious about the list by the weirwood and then was worried about it outside the training grounds.

I'll say it again though and I realize it'll prolly annoy some heads, but the books do a better job showing her development. I think each Stark is bringing a different strength to the table. Sansa understands manipulation, Arya knows how to kill, Bran has unlimited wisdom once he figures out his power and Jon Snow is a natural leader of men.

Yea Sansa definitely is the most politically experienced of the bunch ..a valuable trait that shouldn't be overlooked... one of the best examples was when she told Jon that Rickon was as good as dead as a result of his strong claim to the North, and that Ramsey lays traps... he doesn't fall into them. She understands the "game of thrones" and observed the best playing it.. Cersei, LF, Olenna, Tyrion, Margery, Ramsey, etc

I think that look she had watching Arya was a combo of two things... the realization that her little sister's list is actually real and that she did most of the killing which probably disgusts her a bit and worries her at the same time.

I don't think Sansa is opposed to killing anymore (Ramsay) I think it's more the fact she is worried since she's her little sister and surprised the list is real.

Maybe she's worried she's on the list?

Smash3 wrote:

spree8 wrote:

j4remi wrote:Sansa's evolution as a leader was more on display in the books (the game she plays in the Vale and with Robyn is some strong manipulation learned from the best). She's learned to survive from Cersei and Little Finger; learned the Tyrell trickery from Margery; and showed practical leadership on the show with her grain storage and leather armor clip (short but shows you growth). Also, having her troops roll through in the nick of time reminded me of Tywin at Blackwater but I'm so far removed from that scene I could be off on the comparison.

The Sansa look at Arya to me was more like "what has she been through since we split up." Her brother came back omniscient. Now her little sister is back and strong enough to make Brienne work. She went from chuckling about the list in the tomb to curious about the list by the weirwood and then was worried about it outside the training grounds.

I'll say it again though and I realize it'll prolly annoy some heads, but the books do a better job showing her development. I think each Stark is bringing a different strength to the table. Sansa understands manipulation, Arya knows how to kill, Bran has unlimited wisdom once he figures out his power and Jon Snow is a natural leader of men.

Yea Sansa definitely is the most politically experienced of the bunch ..a valuable trait that shouldn't be overlooked... one of the best examples was when she told Jon that Rickon was as good as dead as a result of his strong claim to the North, and that Ramsey lays traps... he doesn't fall into them. She understands the "game of thrones" and observed the best playing it.. Cersei, LF, Olenna, Tyrion, Margery, Ramsey, etc

I think that look she had watching Arya was a combo of two things... the realization that her little sister's list is actually real and that she did most of the killing which probably disgusts her a bit and worries her at the same time.

I don't think Sansa is opposed to killing anymore (Ramsay) I think it's more the fact she is worried since she's her little sister and surprised the list is real.

Yea I meant that her little sister had to kill a bunch of people. If I'm Sansa I'm thinkin sure it's ok for me to kill this evil monster who tortured me and killed my little brother, but my little sister out here lookin like a straight up murderous little swordsman who enjoys crossing names off her list is a bit too much of a pill to swallow lol.

Meat wrote:

Marty McFly wrote:

Caramel_Anton wrote:
It'd be a very "Jon" thing to do. It'd be cool if he discovers Blackfyre & Dark Sister while mining for dragon glass. Perhaps before Jorah arrives. That way, when Dany sees Jon hand over such a valuable weapon in the name of Honor to house Mormont, she feels he deserves one of the two legendary Targaryan blades in his conquest against the dead. Perhaps Jon's peepee will have already been inside her at this point too - to make the gift make more sense.

the last wielder of dark sister was bloodraven, who to I ok it with him when he went to the wall, and the last person who had possession of blackfyre was bittersteel, his sworn enemy, who took it with him to essos.

They just mentioned the golden company last week, if they bring them over which i dont think they will nor can i can't imagine the have the budget for battle elephants but they can use one of the blackfyre generals and not homeless harry. i could totally see this happening

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when cersei mentioned them my mind went straight to Aegon, but Euron is **** crazy. he might bring them over kill Cersei and park his ass on the throne waiting for the walkers to take everyone else out.

spree8 wrote:

Smash3 wrote:
I don't think Sansa is opposed to killing anymore (Ramsay) I think it's more the fact she is worried since she's her little sister and surprised the list is real.

Yea I meant that her little sister had to kill a bunch of people. If I'm Sansa I'm thinkin sure it's ok for me to kill this evil monster who tortured me and killed my little brother, but my little sister out here lookin like a straight up murderous little swordsman who enjoys crossing names off her list is a bit too much of a pill to swallow lol.

I also think it set in that Arya really considered going to King's Landing and trying to kill Cersei. Even with Arya's abilities that's a scary mission and to Sansa who doesn't know about Arya's face changing, it probably set in that her baby sister almost went on a suicide mission to kill the person Sansa fears the most (speculation everywhere here).

I think what Cersei means, she intends on hiring someone(s) through the Iron Bank to kidnap "Sandra" Stark and Tyrion, two things that she mentioned were her possessions she lost.

Will anyone realize that it was Arya who wiped out the Freys. The stories of a girl poisoning the Grey's has have to reach winterfell.

yb90 wrote:Will anyone realize that it was Arya who wiped out the Freys. The stories of a girl poisoning the Grey's has have to reach winterfell.

I would think so. Not that anyone will care after what that family did. I am sure that will get out. She took out all of the men. Who gets that castle when all is said and done?