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melo thread 6 - Updt PG. 34 (Woj Tweets: NYK & HOU Reengage)!

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Re: melo thread 6 - Updt PG. 34 (Woj Tweets: NYK & HOU Reengage)! 

Post#1161 » by NoLayupRule » Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:56 am

shtolky wrote:
Basketball1981 wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:the problem is that the Hardaway signing was a classic new GM move

When Phil and Mills were together one of the biggest disagreements they had was over Hardaway. Mills loved him, Phil didn't. Phil traded him. End of story.

Apparently not.

Because the first thing Mills did when Phil was out and Griffin said no was to do whatever it took to get THjr back and prove to Dolan that he, Mills, was right about him

so we bid against ourselves in a grossly flawed example of misguided thinning.

Mills said that the average salary for starting SGs in the league is 18mil. Its not. Its 16mil. But fine.
So he gave Hardaway the average SG salary.

Problem is that Hardaway isn't an average SG yet
hes currently a 1 way player at best and you shouldn't pay those guys like we did


So Mills, behind the scenes, is making a gamble on Hardaway to prove to Dolan that he's always been right about players.

But in doing so Mills made the worst moves because we overbid and, worst of all, gave a player option.

so at the end of the day either THjr underperforms his contract or he matches or outperforms it and then takes the player option and forces us to resign him or leaves


its one thing, a bad thing, to gamble on a player like we did
its another all together to gamble but have an option for that player to leave if he does reach the level were paying him for

unreal Mills


I would have literally given 10 And1s for this post. When I first heard about the signing I thought my friend way punking me. I was thinking that "things are chaing around the Knicks and there is no way any sane GM would give 71mill. to Hardaway. When I saw that it is true I hoped against all odds that Atlanta would match the contract. When it sunk in that there is no way Atlanta matches it I was like :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
The only positive here in case Hardaway indeed does not perform up to task then that will throw an incredibly bad light on Mills. It will go down as a massive blunder, ESPECIALLY if two years from now players like Irving signal their interest to join our team but we are stuck with an underperforming Hardaway.

@Nolayuprule: Have you seen Hardaway's defense last year? I admit I haven't paid much attention to it. What is it like? Is it really much improved? If Hardaway isn't at least a solid defender then there is literally no realistic chance for him to perform up to that 71mill. IMO. Even if he averages 18points a game---if he plays bad defense he'd still be underperforming and no team would touch that contract.





I am confused as to how you can be so against this signing as evidenced by your post and yet you literally don't know a thing about his defense. That doesn't seem to make sense to me. His defense was actually much better than most realize, and coach Bud even said it was his defense that got him on the court.

As for NoLayUpRule, how is THJ not an average NBA SG? How many SG's are there in the league? 60-70? I have no idea, I am assuming 2-3 per team. He is CLEARLY at least an average shooting guard. This season he will be the 14th highest paid SG. Oladipo and Wes Matthews make more, and THJ is arguably better than both (I can see people going up in arms about mentioning Oladipo, but he was not good enough for his contract number that starts this year). Evan Fournier makes more than THJ.

Also, your logic about Phil hating THJ and Mills loving him because Mills signed him once Phil left is ridiculous. The player Phil traded away in 2015 is not the same player we signed in 2017. We cares if we traded him away, what does that matter? Should OKC not go after Harden in the future because they once dealt him? I'm sure all Mills cares about is proving to Dolan that he was right about THJ...Dolan who would never fire Mills in 1,000,000 years, yet Mills is doing this to please Dolan. Why couldn't he have just signed a good young player to a contract that is being WILDLY exaggerated here as a huge overpay. If it was up to some of you, we would just never sign anyone because literally every contract signed is an overpay.

First of all I'm not making an assumption that Mills loves thjr and Jackson hated him because of the trades. I'm stating what I've heard from the press and from the people in the know who said that this was a major point between him

And secondly the reason I am against signing, regardless of the defenseive improvements of this kid which I think are dubious, it's because it's a monumental miss use of money.
This team is not winning this year and probably not next year.
I'd much prefer to have seen us use that Space to make trades the benefit us in that us draft picks. We should be looking at some of the players you mention to buy crab and Bazemore who teams want to remove from their payrolls
I'd much prefer to be paying Bazemore 17 million a year and getting a pic in the process for the favor to Atlanta and let them pay Hardaway whatever he's worth
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Re: melo thread 6 - Updt PG. 34 (Woj Tweets: NYK & HOU Reengage)! 

Post#1162 » by knicksh20b » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:45 am

NoLayupRule wrote:
magnumt wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:well we sure dont have one of those


We DO have a low post defender in Porzingis and a POTENTIAL wing defender in Ntilikina and a Vet wing defender in CLee (if we keep him).

It's not ideal 90's NLR Knicks, but it's a step in the right direction.

--Mags :beer:

Fair enough

But what we lack is a culture of defense

Noah, koq, Kp, frank and lee are all excellent defenders. Willy is good too. But the team fails to play together


That's part of it. We need a culture changer for both ends. We all know KG would flip his **** and make people cry if they didn't play d. JKidd, Sheed and some vets were able to do it for a while. Noah was supposed to be that guy but the game passed him by. In a way, our team needs a guy like Draymond Green. There's an element of crazy, "me against the world," trash talking confidence that he has.

Right now, Lee battles and is a plus on the floor. KOQ climbs in and out of the doghouse. Willy will need to prove himself further, but has a good IQ and I'm excited about him. KP needs to be put in the right position and not chase 3 point shooters everywhere. And Frank needs time.
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Re: melo thread 6 - Updt PG. 34 (Woj Tweets: NYK & HOU Reengage)! 

Post#1163 » by GettinitDone » Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:59 am

PORTLAND, Ore. – The dream for some Trail Blazers fans of All-Star forward Carmelo Anthony playing in Portland next season may slowly be coming closer to reality.

On ESPN Radio’s Ryen Russillo Show, NBA reporter Adrian Wojnarowski discussed whether the New York Knicks will end up trading Anthony before the season starts, and said the Blazers are still in the mix.

“That’s a sleeper team in this to get Carmelo to waive his no-trade because I’m told they’ve piqued Carmelo’s interest at the very least,” Wojnarowski said.


http://www.kgw.com/sports/nba/blazers/report-blazers-have-peaked-carmelos-interest/463764212


What can Blazers give us? 2021/2022 unprotected pick?
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Re: melo thread 6 - Updt PG. 34 (Woj Tweets: NYK & HOU Reengage)! 

Post#1164 » by Wolfgang630 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:13 am

GettinitDone wrote:
PORTLAND, Ore. – The dream for some Trail Blazers fans of All-Star forward Carmelo Anthony playing in Portland next season may slowly be coming closer to reality.

On ESPN Radio’s Ryen Russillo Show, NBA reporter Adrian Wojnarowski discussed whether the New York Knicks will end up trading Anthony before the season starts, and said the Blazers are still in the mix.

“That’s a sleeper team in this to get Carmelo to waive his no-trade because I’m told they’ve piqued Carmelo’s interest at the very least,” Wojnarowski said.


http://www.kgw.com/sports/nba/blazers/report-blazers-have-peaked-carmelos-interest/463764212


What can Blazers give us? 2021/2022 unprotected pick?


They gettin it done.
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Re: melo thread 6 - Updt PG. 34 (Woj Tweets: NYK & HOU Reengage)! 

Post#1165 » by J9Starks3 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:24 pm

Wolfgang630 wrote:
GettinitDone wrote:
PORTLAND, Ore. – The dream for some Trail Blazers fans of All-Star forward Carmelo Anthony playing in Portland next season may slowly be coming closer to reality.

On ESPN Radio’s Ryen Russillo Show, NBA reporter Adrian Wojnarowski discussed whether the New York Knicks will end up trading Anthony before the season starts, and said the Blazers are still in the mix.

“That’s a sleeper team in this to get Carmelo to waive his no-trade because I’m told they’ve piqued Carmelo’s interest at the very least,” Wojnarowski said.


http://www.kgw.com/sports/nba/blazers/report-blazers-have-peaked-carmelos-interest/463764212


What can Blazers give us? 2021/2022 unprotected pick?


They gettin it done.


NYK trade: Melo
POR trade: Harkless, Davis, Vonleh, Connaughton, pick

We could send them KOQ and some other piece for the TPE they got for Crabbe as well. Davis, Vonleh, Connaughton all expire.
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Re: melo thread 6 - Updt PG. 34 (Woj Tweets: NYK & HOU Reengage)! 

Post#1166 » by Amsterdam » Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:31 pm

NoLayupRule wrote:
shtolky wrote:
Basketball1981 wrote:
I would have literally given 10 And1s for this post. When I first heard about the signing I thought my friend way punking me. I was thinking that "things are chaing around the Knicks and there is no way any sane GM would give 71mill. to Hardaway. When I saw that it is true I hoped against all odds that Atlanta would match the contract. When it sunk in that there is no way Atlanta matches it I was like :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
The only positive here in case Hardaway indeed does not perform up to task then that will throw an incredibly bad light on Mills. It will go down as a massive blunder, ESPECIALLY if two years from now players like Irving signal their interest to join our team but we are stuck with an underperforming Hardaway.

@Nolayuprule: Have you seen Hardaway's defense last year? I admit I haven't paid much attention to it. What is it like? Is it really much improved? If Hardaway isn't at least a solid defender then there is literally no realistic chance for him to perform up to that 71mill. IMO. Even if he averages 18points a game---if he plays bad defense he'd still be underperforming and no team would touch that contract.





I am confused as to how you can be so against this signing as evidenced by your post and yet you literally don't know a thing about his defense. That doesn't seem to make sense to me. His defense was actually much better than most realize, and coach Bud even said it was his defense that got him on the court.

As for NoLayUpRule, how is THJ not an average NBA SG? How many SG's are there in the league? 60-70? I have no idea, I am assuming 2-3 per team. He is CLEARLY at least an average shooting guard. This season he will be the 14th highest paid SG. Oladipo and Wes Matthews make more, and THJ is arguably better than both (I can see people going up in arms about mentioning Oladipo, but he was not good enough for his contract number that starts this year). Evan Fournier makes more than THJ.

Also, your logic about Phil hating THJ and Mills loving him because Mills signed him once Phil left is ridiculous. The player Phil traded away in 2015 is not the same player we signed in 2017. We cares if we traded him away, what does that matter? Should OKC not go after Harden in the future because they once dealt him? I'm sure all Mills cares about is proving to Dolan that he was right about THJ...Dolan who would never fire Mills in 1,000,000 years, yet Mills is doing this to please Dolan. Why couldn't he have just signed a good young player to a contract that is being WILDLY exaggerated here as a huge overpay. If it was up to some of you, we would just never sign anyone because literally every contract signed is an overpay.

First of all I'm not making an assumption that Mills loves thjr and Jackson hated him because of the trades. I'm stating what I've heard from the press and from the people in the know who said that this was a major point between him

And secondly the reason I am against signing, regardless of the defenseive improvements of this kid which I think are dubious, it's because it's a monumental miss use of money.
This team is not winning this year and probably not next year.
I'd much prefer to have seen us use that Space to make trades the benefit us in that us draft picks. We should be looking at some of the players you mention to buy crab and Bazemore who teams want to remove from their payrolls
I'd much prefer to be paying Bazemore 17 million a year and getting a pic in the process for the favor to Atlanta and let them pay Hardaway whatever he's worth


But you are backtracking regarding Mills, Phil and THJ. You even said you heard this through "people in the know".

Lol
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Re: melo thread 6 - Updt PG. 34 (Woj Tweets: NYK & HOU Reengage)! 

Post#1167 » by knicks94 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:48 pm

Don't see why the Knicks just don't trade Melo for Ryan Anderson. With KP, THJR and Anderson the Knicks would have a mini super team in one of the most weakest conferences in NBA history.
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Re: melo thread 6 - Updt PG. 34 (Woj Tweets: NYK & HOU Reengage)! 

Post#1168 » by omerome » Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:01 pm

knicks94 wrote:Don't see why the Knicks just don't trade Melo for Ryan Anderson. With KP, THJR and Anderson the Knicks would have a mini super team in one of the most weakest conferences in NBA history.

Huh? Because Ryan Anderson's contract is terrible and lasts longer.
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Re: melo thread 6 - Updt PG. 34 (Woj Tweets: NYK & HOU Reengage)! 

Post#1169 » by putiger78 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:07 pm

knicks94 wrote:Don't see why the Knicks just don't trade Melo for Ryan Anderson. With KP, THJR and Anderson the Knicks would have a mini super team in one of the most weakest conferences in NBA history.


Come on man, have to bring something better to the board than that. Anderson is a league average player or worse at this point AND is paid well over several years. Teams were asking for two 1st rounders in order to take his contract. Why would we give up something and get nothing else.

If you want to say you would do Melo for Anderson, Houston's 2020 and 2022 1sts and a 2021 pick swap, we can at least have an intelligent discussion about it, but let's leave the "superteam" talk at the door please.
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Re: melo thread 6 - Updt PG. 34 (Woj Tweets: NYK & HOU Reengage)! 

Post#1170 » by Adelheid » Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:07 pm

knicks94 wrote:Don't see why the Knicks just don't trade Melo for Ryan Anderson. With KP, THJR and Anderson the Knicks would have a mini super team in one of the most weakest conferences in NBA history.


Anderson's is 3 years remaining while Melo's is 2 years and Melo can opt out after this season because of ETO.
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Re: melo thread 6 - Updt PG. 34 (Woj Tweets: NYK & HOU Reengage)! 

Post#1171 » by louieOrr » Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:07 pm

knicks94 wrote:Don't see why the Knicks just don't trade Melo for Ryan Anderson. With KP, THJR and Anderson the Knicks would have a mini super team in one of the most weakest conferences in NBA history.


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Re: melo thread 6 - Updt PG. 34 (Woj Tweets: NYK & HOU Reengage)! 

Post#1172 » by vallen » Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:07 pm

omerome wrote:
knicks94 wrote:Don't see why the Knicks just don't trade Melo for Ryan Anderson. With KP, THJR and Anderson the Knicks would have a mini super team in one of the most weakest conferences in NBA history.

Huh? Because Ryan Anderson's contract is terrible and lasts longer.



and doesnt make anything resembling a super team. no, not even a mini one. :crazy:
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Re: melo thread 6 - Updt PG. 34 (Woj Tweets: NYK & HOU Reengage)! 

Post#1173 » by VirginiaKnickFan » Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:08 pm

knicks94 wrote:Don't see why the Knicks just don't trade Melo for Ryan Anderson. With KP, THJR and Anderson the Knicks would have a mini super team in one of the most weakest conferences in NBA history.


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Re: melo thread 6 - Updt PG. 34 (Woj Tweets: NYK & HOU Reengage)! 

Post#1174 » by NoLayupRule » Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:49 pm

knicksh20b wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:
magnumt wrote:
We DO have a low post defender in Porzingis and a POTENTIAL wing defender in Ntilikina and a Vet wing defender in CLee (if we keep him).

It's not ideal 90's NLR Knicks, but it's a step in the right direction.

--Mags :beer:

Fair enough

But what we lack is a culture of defense

Noah, koq, Kp, frank and lee are all excellent defenders. Willy is good too. But the team fails to play together


That's part of it. We need a culture changer for both ends. We all know KG would flip his **** and make people cry if they didn't play d. JKidd, Sheed and some vets were able to do it for a while. Noah was supposed to be that guy but the game passed him by. In a way, our team needs a guy like Draymond Green. There's an element of crazy, "me against the world," trash talking confidence that he has.

Right now, Lee battles and is a plus on the floor. KOQ climbs in and out of the doghouse. Willy will need to prove himself further, but has a good IQ and I'm excited about him. KP needs to be put in the right position and not chase 3 point shooters everywhere. And Frank needs time.

leadership is the key

I think that is why Noah was brought in

but the reality is that leadership means so much less from a guy who can't contribute

it might fall on KP to be the defensive leader of this team - along with Lee and possibly Thomas - if its to be taken seriously at all
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Re: melo thread 6 - Updt PG. 34 (Woj Tweets: NYK & HOU Reengage)! 

Post#1175 » by NoLayupRule » Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:52 pm

Amsterdam wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:
shtolky wrote:



I am confused as to how you can be so against this signing as evidenced by your post and yet you literally don't know a thing about his defense. That doesn't seem to make sense to me. His defense was actually much better than most realize, and coach Bud even said it was his defense that got him on the court.

As for NoLayUpRule, how is THJ not an average NBA SG? How many SG's are there in the league? 60-70? I have no idea, I am assuming 2-3 per team. He is CLEARLY at least an average shooting guard. This season he will be the 14th highest paid SG. Oladipo and Wes Matthews make more, and THJ is arguably better than both (I can see people going up in arms about mentioning Oladipo, but he was not good enough for his contract number that starts this year). Evan Fournier makes more than THJ.

Also, your logic about Phil hating THJ and Mills loving him because Mills signed him once Phil left is ridiculous. The player Phil traded away in 2015 is not the same player we signed in 2017. We cares if we traded him away, what does that matter? Should OKC not go after Harden in the future because they once dealt him? I'm sure all Mills cares about is proving to Dolan that he was right about THJ...Dolan who would never fire Mills in 1,000,000 years, yet Mills is doing this to please Dolan. Why couldn't he have just signed a good young player to a contract that is being WILDLY exaggerated here as a huge overpay. If it was up to some of you, we would just never sign anyone because literally every contract signed is an overpay.

First of all I'm not making an assumption that Mills loves thjr and Jackson hated him because of the trades. I'm stating what I've heard from the press and from the people in the know who said that this was a major point between him

And secondly the reason I am against signing, regardless of the defenseive improvements of this kid which I think are dubious, it's because it's a monumental miss use of money.
This team is not winning this year and probably not next year.
I'd much prefer to have seen us use that Space to make trades the benefit us in that us draft picks. We should be looking at some of the players you mention to buy crab and Bazemore who teams want to remove from their payrolls
I'd much prefer to be paying Bazemore 17 million a year and getting a pic in the process for the favor to Atlanta and let them pay Hardaway whatever he's worth


But you are backtracking regarding Mills, Phil and THJ. You even said you heard this through "people in the know".

Lol

Im not backtracking at all so dont make things up

secondly Im repeating public knowledge
im not claiming I have an inside scoop
if you read, listen and remember you too will know about this Phil/Mills mini-fued over THjr

Im not gong to drag you up to date
if you wanna continue to fail to understand my clear point Im going to stop explaining and re-explaining it to you
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Re: melo thread 6 - Updt PG. 34 (Woj Tweets: NYK & HOU Reengage)! 

Post#1176 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:40 pm

Jesus H. Christ, when is the mo-fo going to be gone? He's like freaking fly paper.
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Re: melo thread 6 - Updt PG. 34 (Woj Tweets: NYK & HOU Reengage)! 

Post#1177 » by GONYK » Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:14 pm

omerome wrote:
knicks94 wrote:Don't see why the Knicks just don't trade Melo for Ryan Anderson. With KP, THJR and Anderson the Knicks would have a mini super team in one of the most weakest conferences in NBA history.

Huh? Because Ryan Anderson's contract is terrible and lasts longer.


And because Anderson kinda sucks
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Re: melo thread 6 - Updt PG. 34 (Woj Tweets: NYK & HOU Reengage)! 

Post#1178 » by 13ringsruling » Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:35 pm

bet hes still a knick on opening day.
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Re: melo thread 6 - Updt PG. 34 (Woj Tweets: NYK & HOU Reengage)! 

Post#1179 » by 3toheadmelo » Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:05 pm

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PG: Dennis Smith Jr/A Brooks/D Will
SG: Josh Jackson/Dwayne Bacon/Bryn Forbes
SF: Jayson Tatum/Shabazz Muhammad/Glenn Robinson III
PF: Skal Labissiere/Caleb Swanigan/Long
C: Bam Adebayo/Dwight Powell/Justin Patton

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Re: melo thread 6 - Updt PG. 34 (Woj Tweets: NYK & HOU Reengage)! 

Post#1180 » by 3toheadmelo » Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:07 pm

if im reading correctly, mills almost did a dumb trade
Cavs

PG: Dennis Smith Jr/A Brooks/D Will
SG: Josh Jackson/Dwayne Bacon/Bryn Forbes
SF: Jayson Tatum/Shabazz Muhammad/Glenn Robinson III
PF: Skal Labissiere/Caleb Swanigan/Long
C: Bam Adebayo/Dwight Powell/Justin Patton

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