OT: artists whose sophomore albums...

[Jeff Van Gully]

are better than their debuts.

so often we give major props to the great debut album. there are many discussed reasons for the debut supernova and sophomore slump. the debut is usually the culmination of a life's worth of work, anxiety, hope, etc. after finally finding success, some artists struggle to recapture what made them great in the first place.

this got me thinking. who made sophomore albums better than their debuts? a few came to mind.

common - resurrection (people don't even remember that common had an album before this.)
t.i. - trap muzik (see common.)
TLC - crazysexycool (oooooh on the TLC tip is fire, but this one doesn't need much explanation. my wife hates this album.)
kendrick lamar - good kid maad city
jamie foxx - unpredictable (jamie's first album was doo doo juice, but showed he could sing.)
2pac - strictly 4 my n.i.g.g.a.z. (2pacalypse now has a special place in my heart tho. dude was escalating.)
mary j. blige - my life (i know, "what's the 411?" is a classic. but "my life" is the definitive MJB album.)
eminem - the marshall mathers LP (loved SSLP, but MMLP knocked the world on its ass.)

any others? any disagreements?

[Greenie]

Destiny's Child
Jon B
Aaliyah

[Greenie]

Janet Jackson
Whitney Houston

[Greenie]

Ciara
Pretty Ricky

[Mecca]

Outkast

[Marty McFly]

Nirvana's 'Nevermind' is better than 'Bleach' even though you might get "some real fans" up in a tizzy admitting something like that.

I think '2001' is slightly better than 'The Chronic'.

'E.1999 Eternal' is better than 'creepin' on a come up', even though creepin' is an ep.

[god shammgod]

ghostface - supreme clientele, jay-z's best album is his 6th, mobb deep's the infamous was their 2nd album even though nobody listened to the 1st one, some people might say a lot of different kanye albums are the best

in older music you see a lot of growth in artists - nobody from prince to stevie wonder to marvin gaye to michael jackson did their best work on their first album. some of them were many albums in.

[Phish Tank]

Hmm....

1) Clipse - Hell Hath No Fury (compared to Lord Willin -> ignore the unreleased joint tho)
2) The Fugees - The Score (better than Blunted on Reality)
3) Ice Cube - Death Certificate (controversial, but highly arguable)
4) Justin Timberlake - FutureSex/LoveSounds

There's probably more, so this will be a running list

[IllmaticHandler]

Life After Death is better than Ready to Die.

Juvenile Hell did not happen that was an alternate reality, so the Infamous is the real debut of the Mobb. And Hell on Earth is better than the Infamous.


Death Certificate is better than AmeriKKKas most wanted.


Low End Theory is better than Peoples Instinctive.


Onyx Second All We Got is Us.


Mecca and the Soul Brother is better than the first.


To many to name....

[brooklynbrawler]

are better than their debuts.

so often we give major props to the great debut album. there are many discussed reasons for the debut supernova and sophomore slump. the debut is usually the culmination of a life's worth of work, anxiety, hope, etc. after finally finding success, some artists struggle to recapture what made them great in the first place.

this got me thinking. who made sophomore albums better than their debuts? a few came to mind.

common - resurrection (people don't even remember that common had an album before this.)
t.i. - trap muzik (see common.)
TLC - crazysexycool (oooooh on the TLC tip is fire, but this one doesn't need much explanation. my wife hates this album.)
kendrick lamar - good kid maad city
jamie foxx - unpredictable (jamie's first album was doo doo juice, but showed he could sing.)
2pac - strictly 4 my n.i.g.g.a.z. (2pacalypse now has a special place in my heart tho. dude was escalating.)
mary j. blige - my life (i know, "what's the 411?" is a classic. but "my life" is the definitive MJB album.)
eminem - the marshall mathers LP (loved SSLP, but MMLP knocked the world on its ass.)

any others? any disagreements?

Highly debatable

[IllmaticHandler]

MOP Firing Squad is Most def better than the first MOP album.

[IllmaticHandler]

LOX second album is better than the First.

Da Youngstas Second Album is better than the first

[Jeff Van Gully]

Destiny's Child
Jon B
Aaliyah

EXCELLENT call on aaliyah. "one in a million" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[Jeff Van Gully]

Janet Jackson
Whitney Houston

i actually like whitney's first album a LITTLE bit better than "whitney." but whitney has maybe my favorite song of hers "i wanna dance with somebody."

i don't like either of janet's first two albums. wasn't until "control" that i got into her stuff. rhythm nation is fire too. that 1993 "janet" album would have popped if i didn't just get a CD player by then.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Outkast

i know some people who enjoyed ATLiens more that southernplayalistic. they're almost like 2 different groups. but it feels almost sacrilegious to put anything in front of the debut for significance alone.

i will say, i don't think i've seen any rappers make bigger leaps than big boi and dre between those. they are STRAIGHT ANIMALS and completely different beasts on ATLiens.

very intriguing and controversial call. most folks i know think aquemini is better than ATLiens. do you?

[Jeff Van Gully]

Nirvana's 'Nevermind' is better than 'Bleach' even though you might get "some real fans" up in a tizzy admitting something like that.

I think '2001' is slightly better than 'The Chronic'.

'E.1999 Eternal' is better than 'creepin' on a come up', even though creepin' is an ep.

as big a bone thugs fan as i am... can't believe this didn't immediately come to mind.

also, if you want to count faces of death, then creepin' is bette than that too.

i was wondering if someone was going to say 2001 was better than the chronic. i completely understand. not sure i agree, but 2001 is STACKED with heaters. can anyone tell me what the FUG happened to hittman? he CRUSHED that record every time. i thought as star was born after 2001.

didn't even think of nevermind. wouldn't argue that for one second.

[Jeff Van Gully]

ghostface - supreme clientele, jay-z's best album is his 6th, mobb deep's the infamous was their 2nd album even though nobody listened to the 1st one, some people might say a lot of different kanye albums are the best

in older music you see a lot of growth in artists - nobody from prince to stevie wonder to marvin gaye to michael jackson did their best work on their first album. some of them were many albums in.

i am going to stick by "the infamous" as mobb's best album, and it's better than juvenile hell. i agree that hell on earth is HIGHLY underrated. drop a gem on em makes me cringe to this day. "rikers isle flashbacks to the house you got scuffeded in. you would think that gettin' ya headshots enough, but then--" YIKES!

good point about growth in older music. i guess this conversation is really born of a phenomenon noticed in rap where someone comes in with so much to say, then has little more to say after. like... it's so hard to still have a first-person narrative that's the same as when you were hungry. other forms of music do a much better job spreading out perspectives, or at least keeping consistent with things are aren't as dependent on a detailed first-person account of hardship and struggle.

[Jeff Van Gully]

ghostface - supreme clientele, jay-z's best album is his 6th, mobb deep's the infamous was their 2nd album even though nobody listened to the 1st one, some people might say a lot of different kanye albums are the best

in older music you see a lot of growth in artists - nobody from prince to stevie wonder to marvin gaye to michael jackson did their best work on their first album. some of them were many albums in.

as much as i love ironman, supreme clientele is a straight up 5-mic masterpiece and ghost at his absolute best.

talk about improvement. he got so much better from 36 chambers to cuban linx to ironman to wu-tang forever to supreme clientele.

speaking of wu... is anyone going to say wu tang forever is better than 36 chambers?

[Jeff Van Gully]

Hmm....

1) Clipse - Hell Hath No Fury (compared to Lord Willin -> ignore the unreleased joint tho)
2) The Fugees - The Score (better than Blunted on Reality)
3) Ice Cube - Death Certificate (controversial, but highly arguable)
4) Justin Timberlake - FutureSex/LoveSounds

There's probably more, so this will be a running list

1. BLESS YOU! HHNF had to grow on me, but clipse were soooooo angry/nasty/gritty on this record it was visceral and beautiful. best street/coke/hustling rap album of all time. no one lays the game out like these guys. period. and they were like FUG a radio single.

2. people forget blunted on reality even happened. that's how good "the score" is.

3. i am a BIG ice cube fan, and i agree.

4. justified just holds a special place in my heart, but i agree that futuresex is a better composition. just... rock your body tho!

[Jeff Van Gully]

Life After Death is better than Ready to Die.

Juvenile Hell did not happen that was an alternate reality, so the Infamous is the real debut of the Mobb. And Hell on Earth is better than the Infamous.


Death Certificate is better than AmeriKKKas most wanted.


Low End Theory is better than Peoples Instinctive.


Onyx Second All We Got is Us.


Mecca and the Soul Brother is better than the first.


To many to name....

you started off with straight blasphemy i get it tho. biggie was a better MC and artist by this time. but man, ready to die is exactly what i was thinking about when i consider albums people can't replicate because of success. that suicidal desperation in every song (everyday struggle?!?!?!). by life after death biggie is the biggest rap star in the world and on his way to meteoric success. he doesn't know how it feels to wake up fugged up anymore. he shiny suit poppa now. and it shows in his more carefree music. but he was getting even better and more complete and versatile as an artist. who knows what could have been if he didn't die. all that said, ready to die is to me a top-5 all-time hip-hop album. right up there with illmatic.

i agree with low end theory. great call. just love the sound of that record. real... low end and muddy.

what album did pete rock and cl smooth have before mecca and the soul brother?

you struck a nerve with onyx! i actually listen to all we got iz us WAY MORE than bacdafucup, and i agree. people don't want to admit it. but onyx REALLY hit their stride the second time around. bacdafucup was more of a fad album the way they combined the hardcore rap with hardcore rock elements. all we got iz us finds onyx using more traditional hip-hop production and showing off their pure MC skillz wayyyy more effectively. do you agree that we had NO IDEA how good fredro was until all we got iz us? sticky is the show, but i feel like fredro carried that album.