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With Carmelo are we a playoff team?

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Are We Ther Yet
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Re: With Carmelo are we a playoff team? 

Post#121 » by Are We Ther Yet » Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:42 pm

With Carmelo...we are a treadmill media circus wasting draft position/picks until he decides to leave.
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Re: With Carmelo are we a playoff team? 

Post#122 » by BKlutch » Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:46 pm

Are We Ther Yet wrote:With Carmelo...we are a treadmill media circus wasting draft position/picks until he decides to leave.

I think that's an over-reaction. I don't want him on the team, but I'm not sure that he really hurts us in the next 2 years. it all depends on the coach making a strong commitment to playing and developing the young guys. Melo plays his dad/mentor role and accepts that the kids are given more responsibility, or he sits.

We are not winning this year, and probably not next. He'll be gone in a year or two.

Let's say we trade him - was anything offered for him that was so great we need them for our team and they'll make our future better?

I thought not.
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Re: With Carmelo are we a playoff team? 

Post#123 » by Are We Ther Yet » Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:52 pm

BKlutch wrote:
Are We Ther Yet wrote:With Carmelo...we are a treadmill media circus wasting draft position/picks until he decides to leave.

I think that's an over-reaction. I don't want him on the team, but I'm not sure that he really hurts us in the next 2 years. it all depends on the coach making a strong commitment to playing and developing the young guys. Melo plays his dad/mentor role and accepts that the kids are given more responsibility, or he sits.

We are not winning this year, and probably not next. He'll be gone in a year or two.

Let's say we trade him - was anything offered for him that was so great we need them for our team and they'll make our future better?

I thought not.


You thought not?

With Melo...we win more games than without right? Fair to say? I thought so.

With Melo...the media will be non stop talking trades/options/buyouts right? Fair to say? I would think so.

So winning more games hurts draft position...putting us on a treadmill with draft picks late lottery/teens picks...right? I mean...right.

With the media harping and the draft position sliding...we would be a treadmill, media circus wasting draft position during a rebuild.

I thought so. :eyebrows:
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Re: With Carmelo are we a playoff team? 

Post#124 » by BKlutch » Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:55 pm

Are We Ther Yet wrote:
BKlutch wrote:
Are We Ther Yet wrote:With Carmelo...we are a treadmill media circus wasting draft position/picks until he decides to leave.

I think that's an over-reaction. I don't want him on the team, but I'm not sure that he really hurts us in the next 2 years. it all depends on the coach making a strong commitment to playing and developing the young guys. Melo plays his dad/mentor role and accepts that the kids are given more responsibility, or he sits.

We are not winning this year, and probably not next. He'll be gone in a year or two.

Let's say we trade him - was anything offered for him that was so great we need them for our team and they'll make our future better?

I thought not.


You thought not?

With Melo...we win more games than without right? Fair to say? I thought so.

With Melo...the media will be non stop talking trades/options/buyouts right? Fair to say? I would think so.

So winning more games hurts draft position...putting us on a treadmill with draft picks late lottery/teens picks...right? I mean...right.

With the media harping and the draft position sliding...we would be a treadmill, media circus wasting draft position during a rebuild.

I thought so. :eyebrows:

As I said, we won't get a great future player for him.

As I said, it's really up to the coach to keep Melo limited. Develop and play the kids. They'll learn, they'll have fun, they'll lose a lot. If we use Melo to win close games, fire Horny.
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Re: With Carmelo are we a playoff team? 

Post#125 » by Are We Ther Yet » Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:06 pm

BKlutch wrote:
Are We Ther Yet wrote:
BKlutch wrote:I think that's an over-reaction. I don't want him on the team, but I'm not sure that he really hurts us in the next 2 years. it all depends on the coach making a strong commitment to playing and developing the young guys. Melo plays his dad/mentor role and accepts that the kids are given more responsibility, or he sits.

We are not winning this year, and probably not next. He'll be gone in a year or two.

Let's say we trade him - was anything offered for him that was so great we need them for our team and they'll make our future better?

I thought not.


You thought not?

With Melo...we win more games than without right? Fair to say? I thought so.

With Melo...the media will be non stop talking trades/options/buyouts right? Fair to say? I would think so.

So winning more games hurts draft position...putting us on a treadmill with draft picks late lottery/teens picks...right? I mean...right.

With the media harping and the draft position sliding...we would be a treadmill, media circus wasting draft position during a rebuild.

I thought so. :eyebrows:

As I said, we won't get a great future player for him.

As I said, it's really up to the coach to keep Melo limited. Develop and play the kids. They'll learn, they'll have fun, they'll lose a lot. If we use Melo to win close games, fire Horny.


So at best...we're a media circus with a disgruntled Melo? I agree he should get a limited role. Will he accept that and the media pressure? It still hurts the "tank" to a degree and the media circus will still be there. Not sure how you keep Melo out and lose games. That will be a nightmare.
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Re: With Carmelo are we a playoff team? 

Post#126 » by BKlutch » Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:19 pm

Are We Ther Yet wrote:
BKlutch wrote:
Are We Ther Yet wrote:
You thought not?

With Melo...we win more games than without right? Fair to say? I thought so.

With Melo...the media will be non stop talking trades/options/buyouts right? Fair to say? I would think so.

So winning more games hurts draft position...putting us on a treadmill with draft picks late lottery/teens picks...right? I mean...right.

With the media harping and the draft position sliding...we would be a treadmill, media circus wasting draft position during a rebuild.

I thought so. :eyebrows:

As I said, we won't get a great future player for him.

As I said, it's really up to the coach to keep Melo limited. Develop and play the kids. They'll learn, they'll have fun, they'll lose a lot. If we use Melo to win close games, fire Horny.


So at best...we're a media circus with a disgruntled Melo? I agree he should get a limited role. Will he accept that and the media pressure? It still hurts the "tank" to a degree and the media circus will still be there. Not sure how you keep Melo out and lose games. That will be a nightmare.

Phil was the perfect patsy for the media. They won't be able to do the same with Perry, so I see things being a bit quieter with our friends Asshola and Berman.

So if it's the 4th quarter, and we're up by 5 points with 7 minutes to play. Usually, this is where we go iso-Melo and lose the game by 5. Instead of playing Melo, we let the kids play and learn. By the end of the season, they're wining more than Melo would have, but it's too late for us to move up in the standings, and we still wind up in the lottery (yay).

If Horny sits the kids to play Melo at crunch time, then we need to put Horney on the bench and have 2 burly security guards carry that bench out of the garden and dump him in the trash.
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Re: With Carmelo are we a playoff team? 

Post#127 » by seren » Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:59 pm

Tough to say. Nothing screams playoffs with this group in a normal season but the East is awful. Chicago and Atlanta gave up on their seasons already. Indiana got significantly worse. That is three spots off the top of my head and I am sure I am missing one more. Miami and Charlotte will get in. The 8th spot will be open. If KP takes the next step, we are in.

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Re: With Carmelo are we a playoff team? 

Post#128 » by Awoooga » Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:05 pm

General question: how much weight (if any) is Melo placing on having an "NBA home"? When he retires will he be welcomed in Denver and thought of as a Nugget given that he forced his way out? Will he be welcomed in NY and thought of as a Knick if he ends up forcing his way out?

Obviously winning a championship is important but I think there's a lot to say about having an "NBA home". To get that Melo doesn't need to do anything more than play out the year here and not force the Knicks' hand.
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Re: With Carmelo are we a playoff team? 

Post#129 » by BKlutch » Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:19 pm

Awoooga wrote:General question: how much weight (if any) is Melo placing on having an "NBA home"? When he retires will he be welcomed in Denver and thought of as a Nugget given that he forced his way out? Will he be welcomed in NY and thought of as a Knick if he ends up forcing his way out?

Obviously winning a championship is important but I think there's a lot to say about having an "NBA home". To get that Melo doesn't need to do anything more than play out the year here and not force the Knicks' hand.

At the height of the squabble between Phil and Melo, I thought both of them were digging a pretty deep hole. Now Perry is acting like a gentleman and Melo seems more, um, mellow. So who knows? There is nothing really to be gained by dissing a star, and nothing Melo gains if he tries to harm the Knicks. Players come and go all the time, so if this works out amicably, fine.

I think fans wouldn't accept the Knicks getting raped again, and it would also be wrong to try to hurt Melo just to make him accept a trade that he doesn't have to accept (because of the contract we offered him).

EDIT: Isn't it ironic that one player, a guy we all love -- Oakley -- is the guy who doesn't have an NBA home where he belongs?
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Re: With Carmelo are we a playoff team? 

Post#130 » by Guano » Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:55 am

not a chance we make the playoffs. but we will win just enough games to mess up the lotto.
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Re: With Carmelo are we a playoff team? 

Post#131 » by FKF » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:25 am

GONYK wrote:
FKF wrote:
GONYK wrote:
What evidence do you have of this "desperation"?

The fact that we haven't heard anything about this in 2 weeks?


We haven't heard anything since because of the damn NTC, since Melo stated he wouldn't be interested to join the Cavs if Irving was leaving.

Knicks would do it in a nanosecond. Per Woj, they quickly jumped on this public Kyrie drama with an offer to Cleveland late July.
They could run with Kyrie the face of the franchise for the next 5-6 years, and do business, sell tickets, on both primary and sky high secondary markets, regardless of the wins and losses, the same way they did with Marbury and Melo.

Mills is so delusional for thinking the Cavs would agree to trade Kyrie for Melo while they wouldn't even send Kevin Love. :lol:

The only way Melo gets to Cleveland, is if the Cavs finally agree to send us Love, which they haven't figured out of doing, or if the Knicks send Melo AND Porzingis for Kyrie AND Love, which they haven't figured out of doing themselves, since they treat KP as untouchable.

Dare I say this is a deal Phil would have been happy to discuss, but our new mgmt wouldn't.


So that would signal an improvement in management, no?


I respectfully disagree.

You need to keep discussions open especially, when two all stars involved and none of them are on your squad.

Per Vecsey, wanted to trade KP to Boston for Lonzo Ball, that would have been an improvement.

Time will tell if Porzingis was worth the attention and commitment despite he missed an exit meeting with a 13 time champion who ha-penned to be our President.
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Re: With Carmelo are we a playoff team? 

Post#132 » by VirginiaKnickFan » Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:22 pm

Guano wrote:not a chance we make the playoffs. but we will win just enough games to mess up the lotto.


That's been the Knicks MO for years.

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