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With Carmelo are we a playoff team?

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Re: With Carmelo are we a playoff team? 

Post#61 » by AllanHoustonFan » Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:26 am

This team is buns with or without Melo. What makes you think a 33 year old Melo can carry this team to the playoffs that is arguably worse than last years squad? I don't care how weak the East is - the Knicks should only focus on developing our young players and drafting Doncic/Porter Jr (hopefully).
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Re: With Carmelo are we a playoff team? 

Post#62 » by BKlutch » Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:29 am

blueNorange wrote:no

melo doesn't make a team good

We do have a few years of actual data to show that by now.
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Re: With Carmelo are we a playoff team? 

Post#63 » by Knicks Byke » Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:44 am

no.
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Re: With Carmelo are we a playoff team? 

Post#64 » by dakomish23 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:59 am

Without him we are undoubtedly worse, but not bad enough to get a top 5 pick in the current East where so many are not going all in to compete now. With him, playing a lineup of him at the 4 & KP at the 5, surrounded by shooters and defenders, we could be in the mix.

Is that what we should settle for this year?

Melo needs to go chase a ring in OKC and this team needs to develop the youth / trade for prospects, assets and shorter contracts.

2019-20 is when we should be looking at making the playoffs again at the earliest.
Dkillanyk4lyf wrote:Melo is the reason why we are in the mess we are in now. Acquiring him was the biggest mistake in knicks history.


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Re: With Carmelo are we a playoff team? 

Post#65 » by Are We Ther Yet » Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:10 am

It's hard to imagine being that far away from top 5 without him. Even with him our PG rotation is thin to put it mildly. And old backup...a 2nd year bench guard and an 18 year old rookie.

Our FC isn't much either. A suspended broken down horrible offensive vet. A second year guy and a backup.

We might hustle and play hard but...there's not a whole lot of proven talent on this team.

I could see 20-25 wins max without Melo.
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Re: With Carmelo are we a playoff team? 

Post#66 » by FKF » Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:12 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
Greenie wrote:
FKF wrote:
Delusional

Only you.

Foe list because I have already had bull run ins with you.


If he's any relation to TKF, then I'll put him on ignore too. Just because.


1 no I'm not related
2 he was a great poster who is missed, funny you still think of him years after he left

I'm happy to join the ignore list of posters who are not delusionnally hoping for play-offs, if not predicting, despite no major improvement on the roster and Melo remaining.

The Knicks missed the playoffs four straight seasons, and that was due to being a bottom 5 team in defensive rating each year. They didn't fix the roster in the offseason to fix the defense. Frank is the smartest kid around but will need time to adjust and won't instantly guard the elite PGs of the NBA, surrounded by teammates who can miss assignements or switches. Our defense on the wings will be IQ atrocious again with the likes of Melo & Hardaway Jr commanding minutes together.
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Re: With Carmelo are we a playoff team? 

Post#67 » by jvsimonetti0514 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:35 am

Greenie wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:i think so...

i want him gone nao!

Depends.

If Jeff starts him at PF and KP at C then I call a 4th seed. If Melo is a SF and KP is a PF we will not make the playoffs.



This is how I feel about our playoff chances too. I'm not sure if we could be a 4 seed but I could see us sneaking into the playoffs with everyone playing their proper positions. I don't think any team that plays Melo at the 3 is a playoff team because he can't defend that position anymore.

The problem is we still don't have a starting caliber PG on the roster. Frank's French team didn't let him play PG in his league I can't imagine he'll excel his first season in the NBA.
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Re: With Carmelo are we a playoff team? 

Post#68 » by Basketball1981 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:51 am

I hope not. We certainly do need that top 3 pick more than almost any other team in the league. However I can only think of 7 teams that I would deem clearly better than us from a roster perspective. Unfortunately , with Chicago, Indiana and Atlanta, 3 good teams dismantled themselves during this offseason. If no major injuries occur I see the following teams ahead of us:

Cleveland
Boston
Toronto
Washington
Milwaukee
Detroit (I really think that Bradley will give them a big time boost, making them a 40 win team)
Charlotte (Walker,Batum and Howard should be enough to win 40 in the east)
Miami (kept their team and have good chemistry)

Philly (IF they stay healthy--a big IF but I remember them playing really solid with Embiid in there)

Unfortunately Chicago, Indiana and Atlanta have put themselves in positions for worse records than us. Had they stayed the same, there would have been a far greater chance of us having a top 5 pick. This is what makes the upcoming season dangerous for us. Even if we win just 27 games, that could be enough to be outside the top 5. I don't see Atlanta, Chicago, Indiana, Sacramento, Orlando and Brooklyn winning much more than 25 games.
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Re: With Carmelo are we a playoff team? 

Post#69 » by coopnyc74 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:42 pm

No team with Ramon Sessions starting is likely to make the playoffs, sadly there are a ton of horrible teams in the East, mainly Atlanta who might struggle to win 15 games this year. Typical Knicks we can't even do a tank right, we will probably be in the 6-10 range again. Stop the Porter and Doncic pipe dreams now.
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Re: With Carmelo are we a playoff team? 

Post#70 » by Basketball1981 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:53 pm

coopnyc74 wrote:No team with Ramon Sessions starting is likely to make the playoffs, sadly there are a ton of horrible teams in the East, mainly Atlanta who might struggle to win 15 games this year. Typical Knicks we can't even do a tank right, we will probably be in the 6-10 range again. Stop the Porter and Doncic pipe dreams now.


I fear that scenario. I strongly feel that for the Knicks to be relevant again any time soon we need that top 3 pick, preferably the first pick and Porter. I am extremely high on Porter. I would trade Prozingis for Porter right away without giving it a second thought. I feel like the guy is a sure bet to become a top 10 player 5 years from now....like what we hope Porzingis may pan out if everything goes right, Porter WILL definitely become that.
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Re: With Carmelo are we a playoff team? 

Post#71 » by Greenie » Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:04 pm

jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
Greenie wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:i think so...

i want him gone nao!

Depends.

If Jeff starts him at PF and KP at C then I call a 4th seed. If Melo is a SF and KP is a PF we will not make the playoffs.



This is how I feel about our playoff chances too. I'm not sure if we could be a 4 seed but I could see us sneaking into the playoffs with everyone playing their proper positions. I don't think any team that plays Melo at the 3 is a playoff team because he can't defend that position anymore.

The problem is we still don't have a starting caliber PG on the roster. Frank's French team didn't let him play PG in his league I can't imagine he'll excel his first season in the NBA.

That's fair. We will see.
and no, Melo can not defend SF's anymore. That must stop immediately. He's much better defensively at PF and he's given an advantage offensively.
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Re: With Carmelo are we a playoff team? 

Post#72 » by Greenie » Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:06 pm

dakomish23 wrote:Without him we are undoubtedly worse, but not bad enough to get a top 5 pick in the current East where so many are not going all in to compete now. With him, playing a lineup of him at the 4 & KP at the 5, surrounded by shooters and defenders, we could be in the mix.

Is that what we should settle for this year?

Melo needs to go chase a ring in OKC and this team needs to develop the youth / trade for prospects, assets and shorter contracts.

2019-20 is when we should be looking at making the playoffs again at the earliest.

Without Melo we are top 5.
People overlook all of his positives that he does bring to focus on the negatives though, so it is hard to believe.
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Re: With Carmelo are we a playoff team? 

Post#73 » by dakomish23 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:15 pm

Greenie wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:Without him we are undoubtedly worse, but not bad enough to get a top 5 pick in the current East where so many are not going all in to compete now. With him, playing a lineup of him at the 4 & KP at the 5, surrounded by shooters and defenders, we could be in the mix.

Is that what we should settle for this year?

Melo needs to go chase a ring in OKC and this team needs to develop the youth / trade for prospects, assets and shorter contracts.

2019-20 is when we should be looking at making the playoffs again at the earliest.

Without Melo we are top 5.
People overlook all of his positives that he does bring to focus on the negatives though, so it is hard to believe.


You know that's not how I view Melo.

I just think ATL BKN ORL PHX LAL PHI SAC could all be worse. A lot of teams are trying to get into the top of the 2018 draft. Did Bagley reclassify yet?

We have some vets who will help us pull out a game or two. KP will take another step in his progression. WHG will be better. Frank should give us some much needed perimeter D. THJ will get hot some games.

We're not bottom of the barrel abysmal sans Melo. 25 wins might get you the 8th pick this year
Dkillanyk4lyf wrote:Melo is the reason why we are in the mess we are in now. Acquiring him was the biggest mistake in knicks history.


blueNorange wrote:good thing knicks have kanter because willy looking pedestrian af
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Re: With Carmelo are we a playoff team? 

Post#74 » by nedleeds » Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:42 pm

Melo is about a zero VORP. Turns out the other teams points count also.
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Re: With Carmelo are we a playoff teazm? 

Post#75 » by basketboule » Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:48 pm

coopnyc74 wrote:No team with Ramon Sessions starting is likely to make the playoffs, sadly there are a ton of horrible teams in the East, mainly Atlanta who might struggle to win 15 games this year. Typical Knicks we can't even do a tank right, we will probably be in the 6-10 range again. Stop the Porter and Doncic pipe dreams now.


Ironically, most people here think Tim Hardaway was a good signing.
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Re: With Carmelo are we a playoff team? 

Post#76 » by Rodimus921 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:54 pm

Regular Melo no. Hoodie Melo yes.
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Re: With Carmelo are we a playoff team? 

Post#77 » by BeagleBoss » Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:40 pm

Keeping Melo makes us better in the short term aka next season. But keeping Melo prevents certain players from making that jump. It's better to win 30 games next season but KP, Hardaway and Billy shine then winning 40 games led by Melo and those players stay the same or don't get that much better.



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Re: With Carmelo are we a playoff team? 

Post#78 » by jvsimonetti0514 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:49 pm

Greenie wrote:
jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
Greenie wrote:Depends.

If Jeff starts him at PF and KP at C then I call a 4th seed. If Melo is a SF and KP is a PF we will not make the playoffs.



This is how I feel about our playoff chances too. I'm not sure if we could be a 4 seed but I could see us sneaking into the playoffs with everyone playing their proper positions. I don't think any team that plays Melo at the 3 is a playoff team because he can't defend that position anymore.

The problem is we still don't have a starting caliber PG on the roster. Frank's French team didn't let him play PG in his league I can't imagine he'll excel his first season in the NBA.

That's fair. We will see.
and no, Melo can not defend SF's anymore. That must stop immediately. He's much better defensively at PF and he's given an advantage offensively.


I said this in another thread that we'll know the front offices intentions with the starting line up we trot out opening night.
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Re: With Carmelo are we a playoff team? 

Post#79 » by HarthorneWingo » Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:43 pm

FKF wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Greenie wrote:Only you.

Foe list because I have already had bull run ins with you.


If he's any relation to TKF, then I'll put him on ignore too. Just because.


1 no I'm not related
2 he was a great poster who is missed, funny you still think of him years after he left

I'm happy to join the ignore list of posters who are not delusionnally hoping for play-offs, if not predicting, despite no major improvement on the roster and Melo remaining.

The Knicks missed the playoffs four straight seasons, and that was due to being a bottom 5 team in defensive rating each year. They didn't fix the roster in the offseason to fix the defense. Frank is the smartest kid around but will need time to adjust and won't instantly guard the elite PGs of the NBA, surrounded by teammates who can miss assignements or switches. Our defense on the wings will be IQ atrocious again with the likes of Melo & Hardaway Jr commanding minutes together.


"A great poster who IS MISSED"? LOL. By who? You?

Do you know why he's not around anymore?

And one more thing: F*ck TKF
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Re: With Carmelo are we a playoff team? 

Post#80 » by blueNorange » Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:11 pm

AllanHoustonFan wrote:This team is buns with or without Melo. What makes you think a 33 year old Melo can carry this team to the playoffs that is arguably worse than last years squad? I don't care how weak the East is - the Knicks should only focus on developing our young players and drafting Doncic/Porter Jr (hopefully).

incase you haven't read if you move carmelo to the power forward position, a position he doesn't like playing, then magically melo doesn't become one of the worst defenders in the nba and for some reason becomes an efficient player again(despite being average at best for 3 years now) :lol:
LOL Y U MAD THO?
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