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OT: WFAN's Craig Carton Arrested & Suspended

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Re: OT: WFAN's Craig Carton Arrested 

Post#181 » by nykballa2k4 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:39 am

Greenie wrote:
Polk377 wrote:
Greenie wrote:Cutler isn't a good player. Bottom line.

Plus, your argument can be used for Kap too. Who the hell was he throwing too? Offensive line? Running backs? Exactly.


Kap is nothing special. He is a middle of the line QB. Is he better than guys like Bortles, Geoff, and Hoyer? Sure but no one is questioning his talent as to why he isn't signed because we all know why.


That's why there is a problem. How is this hard to understand? Black folks are not feeling as to why he's not signed. We all know it's not football reasons. Mofo's will beat a female damn near to death, kill(hi Ray), steal or rob and still keep a job in the NFL. Let a dude stand up for civil rights and he's shunned.

It's a modern day n*** rule. He's being told to fall in line.


Greenie, you are better than this... EVERY JOB IN AMERICA HAS A FALL IN LINE RULE FOR EMPLOYEES. IF you have a job, you can't just walk in, ignore the dress code, talk politics, etc. I get that he had a statement to make. He did it in a passive aggressive way and didn't follow through. I still think he was kneeling when this all began because he was pissed he wasn't named a starter. If he tweeted anything, said anything, printed anything etc before some reporter asked him "hey why aren't you standing" I'll back off this notion, but so far I have seen NOTHING from him to suggest that his protest is genuine.

Obviously the issues of police use of force, profiling, and the disproportionate rates of incarceration need to be explored. Let's watch how Michael Bennett handles this. So far, he has handled everything 100%. Do you think the Seahawks are going to cut him? NO.
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Again illustrating the problem, making it personal, and hopefully there will be a way for all of us to get involved in some way. That's how you bring about change; through education not binary terms and team.
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Re: OT: WFAN's Craig Carton Arrested 

Post#182 » by Greenie » Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:39 am

Fat Kat wrote:
Polk377 wrote:
Greenie wrote:

Many athletes use their platforms to send a message. To actually bring attention to something that concerns them. Kap did so. Saying it's not his place to me as a woman of color is a slap in the face directly. I truly hope you hold the same stance on ANY athlete on ANY issue. Tell them all to shut up and play.

What does you being a black woman have anything to do with this Greenie? Don't bring identity politics into this discussion please. I am not here to make it a Black, White or Brown thing. This is strictly about what is acceptable on the field and on national television vs social media and off the field actions. The fact that it turned a lot of their fanbase off seeing him take a knee during the anthem was enough for them not to employ him. It is as simple as that.


Once upon a time, it offended team's fanbases to see black folks on the roster. Kap is taking a knee to shed light on police violence against unarmed black men. Being offended by that speaks to one's mindset, and what they deem acceptable. It's as simple as that.


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Re: OT: WFAN's Craig Carton Arrested 

Post#183 » by nykballa2k4 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:42 am

Polk377 wrote:
Greenie wrote:
nykballa2k4 wrote:
I don't get what the big deal about Kap not being on a team is... Tebow made the playoffs with Denver and was considered to be too much to carry on a roster. Kap can't keep a low profile. Back up QB's are meant to be seen and not heard and he can't help himself from making one bizarre stunt after another. But nah, it's because of race... Show me other players who wear Castro stuff... If you are gonna be a knucklehead you better be REALLY good. He isn't. EDIT: Relative to NFL starting QB's I mean. Obviously even the worst NFL QB is freakishly good by human standards... but his level of attention seeking would require him being a top 15QB in the league... which he isn't.

Jay Cutler starts....
Who starts for the Jets again?

That's why this becomes a problem in many black peoples eyes.

I don't get the Jay Cutler sucks narrative either. He hasn't exactly had the best supporting cast around him in Chicago and a terrible offensive line.


Cutler isn't good either... He has had plenty of weapons historically. Basically he is the combination of Favres "arm-talent" and risk-taking mixed with Eli's extroversion.
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Re: OT: WFAN's Craig Carton Arrested 

Post#184 » by nykballa2k4 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:45 am

Polk377 wrote:
Greenie wrote:
Polk377 wrote:Exactly. People forget that just because you can play doesn't give you a privilege to do and say whatever you want that adversely effects your employer. The NFL doesn't owe him shyt!



Of course they don't. Him standing up for civil rights costing him a job is noted though.

It is not his job to stand up for civil rights. I am not saying it is a bad thing that he is but when you bring your private agenda into the workplace your employer does not have to freely endorse it. If he wants to blame anyone it is the media that hyped it up to the point of distraction. They don't give a damn about Kappernick but will push the narrative for their leftist agenda.


I think you are getting it a bit wrong here. Kap is being blamed not for his protest, but for being REALLY bad at it. Again, if he engaged with the community in SF agreed to meetings with officers, got some of his teammates to come with him for some good PR meetings to help his cause AND help law enforcement show that they are collaborating, it's a win win and the movement has meaning. Kap threw a temper tantrum, he didn't make a real statement.
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Re: OT: WFAN's Craig Carton Arrested 

Post#185 » by Polk377 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:48 am

Fat Kat wrote:
Polk377 wrote:
Greenie wrote:

Many athletes use their platforms to send a message. To actually bring attention to something that concerns them. Kap did so. Saying it's not his place to me as a woman of color is a slap in the face directly. I truly hope you hold the same stance on ANY athlete on ANY issue. Tell them all to shut up and play.

What does you being a black woman have anything to do with this Greenie? Don't bring identity politics into this discussion please. I am not here to make it a Black, White or Brown thing. This is strictly about what is acceptable on the field and on national television vs social media and off the field actions. The fact that it turned a lot of their fanbase off seeing him take a knee during the anthem was enough for them not to employ him. It is as simple as that.


Once upon a time, it offended team's fanbases to see black folks on the roster. Kap is taking a knee to shed light on police violence against unarmed black men. Being offended by that speaks to one's mindset, and what they deem acceptable. It's as simple as that.

Hmmm could it be that a lot of Americans don't like seeing this guy disrespect the flag by kneeling during the anthem? I really don't care if he wants to stand, kneel or lay down on his back. That is his rights as an American of freedom of speech and expression. There are consequences for every action and he is facing his right now. Now tell me who did it actually help?
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Re: OT: WFAN's Craig Carton Arrested 

Post#186 » by Polk377 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:51 am

nykballa2k4 wrote:
Polk377 wrote:
Greenie wrote:

Of course they don't. Him standing up for civil rights costing him a job is noted though.

It is not his job to stand up for civil rights. I am not saying it is a bad thing that he is but when you bring your private agenda into the workplace your employer does not have to freely endorse it. If he wants to blame anyone it is the media that hyped it up to the point of distraction. They don't give a damn about Kappernick but will push the narrative for their leftist agenda.


I think you are getting it a bit wrong here. Kap is being blamed not for his protest, but for being REALLY bad at it. Again, if he engaged with the community in SF agreed to meetings with officers, got some of his teammates to come with him for some good PR meetings to help his cause AND help law enforcement show that they are collaborating, it's a win win and the movement has meaning. Kap threw a temper tantrum, he didn't make a real statement.

Yea I might not have worded it properly. If he would have taken a path similar to how Melo did in Baltimore it would have been seen and embraced better.
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Re: OT: WFAN's Craig Carton Arrested 

Post#187 » by Polk377 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:53 am

nykballa2k4 wrote:
Polk377 wrote:
Greenie wrote:Jay Cutler starts....
Who starts for the Jets again?

That's why this becomes a problem in many black peoples eyes.

I don't get the Jay Cutler sucks narrative either. He hasn't exactly had the best supporting cast around him in Chicago and a terrible offensive line.


Cutler isn't good either... He has had plenty of weapons historically. Basically he is the combination of Favres "arm-talent" and risk-taking mixed with Eli's extroversion.

The talent has been there but I don't think Cutler has really given a damn.
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Re: OT: WFAN's Craig Carton Arrested 

Post#188 » by nykballa2k4 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:56 am

Polk377 wrote:
nykballa2k4 wrote:
Polk377 wrote:It is not his job to stand up for civil rights. I am not saying it is a bad thing that he is but when you bring your private agenda into the workplace your employer does not have to freely endorse it. If he wants to blame anyone it is the media that hyped it up to the point of distraction. They don't give a damn about Kappernick but will push the narrative for their leftist agenda.


I think you are getting it a bit wrong here. Kap is being blamed not for his protest, but for being REALLY bad at it. Again, if he engaged with the community in SF agreed to meetings with officers, got some of his teammates to come with him for some good PR meetings to help his cause AND help law enforcement show that they are collaborating, it's a win win and the movement has meaning. Kap threw a temper tantrum, he didn't make a real statement.

Yea I might not have worded it properly. If he would have taken a path similar to how Melo did in Baltimore it would have been seen and embraced better.


Again, everything I have heard (and maybe I missed some info. I always welcome new info!) makes it sound like Kap was sitting, asked a question gave a BS answer based on the first thing that came in his mind, realized that it was going to become a thing, had no idea what to do, tried to throw money at it and say "see I did something" and then proceeded no not vote, say that he will stand on his next team, wear Fidel Castro stuff, etc. Ravens were about to sign him and then his GF decided to have fun with photo-shop.

I would like to know if he would have been standing or kneeling for the anthem if he had been named the starting QB.
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Re: OT: WFAN's Craig Carton Arrested & Suspended 

Post#189 » by Phish Tank » Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:56 am

Greenie has a valid point about race being an issue. Looking at it from a slightly different perspective, that the boycotters and others fail to recognize at times - the law of numbers might actually have hurt Kap in a way too. With someone of Kap's talent, he's capable of being a starter and probably is more talented than some starters at the moment. But having more talent doesn't mean a team actually needs you. Looking at all the teams, there's only a handful that actually needed a starter:

NFC:
Giants: Nope, Eli Manning
Cowboys: Nope, Dak
Eagles: Nope, Wentz
Redskins: Nope, Kirk Cousins
Bears: Yes/No. Could have signed Kap in March, but instead signed Mike Glennon to a large contract before the draft and drafted Trubinsky
Lions: Nope, Stafford
Packers: Nope, Rodgers
Vikings: Nope, Bradford/Bridgewater
Falcons: Nope, Matt Ryan
Panthers: Nope, Cam
Saints: Nope, Brees
Bucs: Nope, Winston
Cardinals: Maybe, but Carson Palmer's still around
49ers: YES
Rams: Nope, Jared Goff was just drafted last year
Seahawks: Nope, Russell Wilson:

AFC:
Jets: YES, even though Petty/Hackenberg are still w/ team
Dolphins: At FA, Tannehill was still w/ team. After injury, signed Cutler due to familiarity with offense. Also didn't sign Kap b/c of Castro comments
Patriots: Nope, Brady
Colts: Nope, Luck
Texans: Nope, Watson
Jaguars: Nope, Bortles (though he ain't any good)
Titans: Nope, Mariota
Ravens: I guess, but Flacco's still with the team
Steelers: Nope, Big Ben
Bengals: Nope, Dalton
Browns: Yes (even though they're starting the rook for now)
Chiefs: Nope, Alex Smith
Broncos: They have Siemian and Paxton Lynch and Osweiler now (tho Kap's arguably better than those 3)
Raiders: Nope, Carr
Chargers: Nope, Rivers

TL;DR, there's only like 4 or 5 teams out of the 32 in the league that actually could have made use of the QB. So when reporters and people on twitter claim everyone's refusing to sign him, it's not necessarily because of want, but of need.

Now, the easy question is what about being a backup? What the activists and others fail to realize that the backup QB role is not always about talent. Take away the Vick/McNabb tandem in Philadelphia, but you almost never see an uber talented backup QB. The role of the backup QB has one of two purposes: either be a vet and be a mentor to the starter or be an up-and-coming rook and learn from the starter.

Additionally, your backup QB tends to be behind the scenes and not newsworthy of any note. It's the case in almost any sport. Likewise, the starting QB has to be the leader of the offense and rile up the troops.

Based on the above, you see that Kap doesn't really match the true job requirements of a backup QB. He's one of those players who hasn't had the vast experience of a vet but isn't a spring chicken by any means. Likewise, he's just going to garner a lot of attention as a backup QB that likely won't be any of his fault. His supporters might actually be a hindrance in that aspect. You just know that any team that has him on the roster will be answering a lot of non-football questions that are naturally going to be a distraction to the team. It just simply is. It'll be the same with the Melo trade rumors all season. If you're a rebuilding team, you don't want that. A playoff team, nope.

Now of the 5 teams that could actually use him, we can take the 49ers out of the running obviously. Again, I don't think Miami was ever realistic. I think the Jets could have been an interesting situation, but the owner doesn't want any part of him (it's been publicized). Don't really get why.

I do actually think the Ravens were a true candidate, but his GF pretty much ruined that opportunity for him (when I say that his supporters can be a hindrance, just look at that example). I think the only real way a team can take a chance on Kap is to have an influential NFL ambassador (think Tony Dungy) or team ambassador (HOFs, etc.) personally talk to the owners and vouch for him.

However, the issue of kneeling for the flag does not have unanimous support within the African American NFL Community and any methods of repairing that relationship has been destroyed due to Kap's supporters publicly rebuking them at any given opportunity. While Colin has done a lot within the community of donating to various causes and educating the youth, he should probably start doing interviews to allow him an opportunity to speak for himself rather than having other people speak for him.

Until the above happens, it's not likely he'll play another game in the NFL anytime soon. Sadly, race is a part of it, but it's not the only determinant.
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Re: OT: WFAN's Craig Carton Arrested 

Post#190 » by Fat Kat » Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:03 am

Polk377 wrote:
Fat Kat wrote:
Polk377 wrote:What does you being a black woman have anything to do with this Greenie? Don't bring identity politics into this discussion please. I am not here to make it a Black, White or Brown thing. This is strictly about what is acceptable on the field and on national television vs social media and off the field actions. The fact that it turned a lot of their fanbase off seeing him take a knee during the anthem was enough for them not to employ him. It is as simple as that.


Once upon a time, it offended team's fanbases to see black folks on the roster. Kap is taking a knee to shed light on police violence against unarmed black men. Being offended by that speaks to one's mindset, and what they deem acceptable. It's as simple as that.

Hmmm could it be that a lot of Americans don't like seeing this guy disrespect the flag by kneeling during the anthem? I really don't care if he wants to stand, kneel or lay down on his back. That is his rights as an American of freedom of speech and expression. There are consequences for every action and he is facing his right now. Now tell me who did it actually help?


Millions were raised to help people in Somalia, meals on wheels, and charities that focus on racial issues. By Kap and numerous celebrities. Awareness was raised and conversations are had everyday because of his protest. That's the first step of many.

Kap knew there would be consequences, but that should be expected. Many have died defending the civil rights of others, despite folks like you warning them of the risk. It's part of the long, hard struggle black folks have had to make for equality.
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Re: OT: WFAN's Craig Carton Arrested & Suspended 

Post#191 » by nykballa2k4 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:14 am

Phish Tank wrote:Greenie has a valid point about race being an issue. Looking at it from a slightly different perspective, that the boycotters and others fail to recognize at times - the law of numbers might actually have hurt Kap in a way too. With someone of Kap's talent, he's capable of being a starter and probably is more talented than some starters at the moment. But having more talent doesn't mean a team actually needs you. Looking at all the teams, there's only a handful that actually needed a starter:

NFC:
Giants: Nope, Eli Manning
Cowboys: Nope, Dak
Eagles: Nope, Wentz
Redskins: Nope, Kirk Cousins
Bears: Yes/No. Could have signed Kap in March, but instead signed Mike Glennon to a large contract before the draft and drafted Trubinsky
Lions: Nope, Stafford
Packers: Nope, Rodgers
Vikings: Nope, Bradford/Bridgewater
Falcons: Nope, Matt Ryan
Panthers: Nope, Cam
Saints: Nope, Brees
Bucs: Nope, Winston
Cardinals: Maybe, but Carson Palmer's still around
49ers: YES
Rams: Nope, Jared Goff was just drafted last year
Seahawks: Nope, Russell Wilson:

AFC:
Jets: YES, even though Petty/Hackenberg are still w/ team
Dolphins: At FA, Tannehill was still w/ team. After injury, signed Cutler due to familiarity with offense. Also didn't sign Kap b/c of Castro comments
Patriots: Nope, Brady
Colts: Nope, Luck
Texans: Nope, Watson
Jaguars: Nope, Bortles (though he ain't any good)
Titans: Nope, Mariota
Ravens: I guess, but Flacco's still with the team
Steelers: Nope, Big Ben
Bengals: Nope, Dalton
Browns: Yes (even though they're starting the rook for now)
Chiefs: Nope, Alex Smith
Broncos: They have Siemian and Paxton Lynch and Osweiler now (tho Kap's arguably better than those 3)
Raiders: Nope, Carr
Chargers: Nope, Rivers

TL;DR, there's only like 4 or 5 teams out of the 32 in the league that actually could have made use of the QB. So when reporters and people on twitter claim everyone's refusing to sign him, it's not necessarily because of want, but of need.

Now, the easy question is what about being a backup? What the activists and others fail to realize that the backup QB role is not always about talent. Take away the Vick/McNabb tandem in Philadelphia, but you almost never see an uber talented backup QB. The role of the backup QB has one of two purposes: either be a vet and be a mentor to the starter or be an up-and-coming rook and learn from the starter.

Additionally, your backup QB tends to be behind the scenes and not newsworthy of any note. It's the case in almost any sport. Likewise, the starting QB has to be the leader of the offense and rile up the troops.

Based on the above, you see that Kap doesn't really match the true job requirements of a backup QB. He's one of those players who hasn't had the vast experience of a vet but isn't a spring chicken by any means. Likewise, he's just going to garner a lot of attention as a backup QB that likely won't be any of his fault. His supporters might actually be a hindrance in that aspect. You just know that any team that has him on the roster will be answering a lot of non-football questions that are naturally going to be a distraction to the team. It just simply is. It'll be the same with the Melo trade rumors all season. If you're a rebuilding team, you don't want that. A playoff team, nope.

Now of the 5 teams that could actually use him, we can take the 49ers out of the running obviously. Again, I don't think Miami was ever realistic. I think the Jets could have been an interesting situation, but the owner doesn't want any part of him (it's been publicized). Don't really get why.

I do actually think the Ravens were a true candidate, but his GF pretty much ruined that opportunity for him (when I say that his supporters can be a hindrance, just look at that example). I think the only real way a team can take a chance on Kap is to have an influential NFL ambassador (think Tony Dungy) or team ambassador (HOFs, etc.) personally talk to the owners and vouch for him.

However, the issue of kneeling for the flag does not have unanimous support within the African American NFL Community and any methods of repairing that relationship has been destroyed due to Kap's supporters publicly rebuking them at any given opportunity. While Colin has done a lot within the community of donating to various causes and educating the youth, he should probably start doing interviews to allow him an opportunity to speak for himself rather than having other people speak for him.

Until the above happens, it's not likely he'll play another game in the NFL anytime soon. Sadly, race is a part of it, but it's not the only determinant.


I basically agree with 99% of what you said. I just don't think I understand why you are saying race is part of it. Do you think if he were white doing the exact same actions he would be on a team? There is no denying that race plays a role in the preceding events that would lead to a protest. But in regards to the protest and non-signing itself what role is race playing??

FWIW as a Steelers fan I expect our team to sign Kap after a Big Ben injury. Ben might retire and the roster is too good to give up on the season. Our back up is as you said a back up and Kap is young enough to take the reigns for our other stars prime. Promise you this: If Ben gets hurt, Kap will either be a Steeler or a Raven.
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Re: OT: WFAN's Craig Carton Arrested 

Post#192 » by Polk377 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:19 am

Fat Kat wrote:
Polk377 wrote:
Fat Kat wrote:
Once upon a time, it offended team's fanbases to see black folks on the roster. Kap is taking a knee to shed light on police violence against unarmed black men. Being offended by that speaks to one's mindset, and what they deem acceptable. It's as simple as that.

Hmmm could it be that a lot of Americans don't like seeing this guy disrespect the flag by kneeling during the anthem? I really don't care if he wants to stand, kneel or lay down on his back. That is his rights as an American of freedom of speech and expression. There are consequences for every action and he is facing his right now. Now tell me who did it actually help?


Millions were raised to help people in Somalia, meals on wheels, and charities that focus on racial issues. By Kap and numerous celebrities. Awareness was raised and conversations are had everyday because of his protest. That's the first step of many.

Kap knew there would be consequences, but that should be expected. Many have died defending the civil rights of others, despite folks like you warning them of the risk. It's part of the long, hard struggle black folks have had to make for equality.

I don't think he really knew of the consequences otherwise he wouldn't have done it. As nykballa2k4 said, I think it was more about him rather than the movement itself. Honestly if it took Kappernick taking a knee for someone to pay attention to the social issues around this country than shame on them for not paying attention to the many outlets that have spoken on the matter way before him. Please don't pull that people like you shyt. We are already going too far with this racial and political talk here. Let's not go further please.
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Re: OT: WFAN's Craig Carton Arrested & Suspended 

Post#193 » by Phish Tank » Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:20 am

nykballa2k4 wrote:I basically agree with 99% of what you said. I just don't think I understand why you are saying race is part of it. Do you think if he were white doing the exact same actions he would be on a team? There is no denying that race plays a role in the preceding events that would lead to a protest. But in regards to the protest and non-signing itself what role is race playing??

FWIW as a Steelers fan I expect our team to sign Kap after a Big Ben injury. Ben might retire and the roster is too good to give up on the season. Our back up is as you said a back up and Kap is young enough to take the reigns for our other stars prime. Promise you this: If Ben gets hurt, Kap will either be a Steeler or a Raven.


I mean the bold is pretty much explaining how race is just a whole part of the discussion. Racial injustice -> protest -> people feeling "disrespected" for not standing for flag -> not being signed.

I'm not saying you're wrong in any means, it's just that indirectly race has had an impact in all the preceding events. Now we also live in a world that is becoming rapidly binary. There's no middle ground; you're for a cause or you're against it. Twitter and social media is largely guilty of this phenomenon as it allows people to post anonymously over the internet.
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Re: OT: WFAN's Craig Carton Arrested & Suspended 

Post#194 » by Polk377 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:23 am

nykballa2k4 wrote:
Phish Tank wrote:Greenie has a valid point about race being an issue. Looking at it from a slightly different perspective, that the boycotters and others fail to recognize at times - the law of numbers might actually have hurt Kap in a way too. With someone of Kap's talent, he's capable of being a starter and probably is more talented than some starters at the moment. But having more talent doesn't mean a team actually needs you. Looking at all the teams, there's only a handful that actually needed a starter:

NFC:
Giants: Nope, Eli Manning
Cowboys: Nope, Dak
Eagles: Nope, Wentz
Redskins: Nope, Kirk Cousins
Bears: Yes/No. Could have signed Kap in March, but instead signed Mike Glennon to a large contract before the draft and drafted Trubinsky
Lions: Nope, Stafford
Packers: Nope, Rodgers
Vikings: Nope, Bradford/Bridgewater
Falcons: Nope, Matt Ryan
Panthers: Nope, Cam
Saints: Nope, Brees
Bucs: Nope, Winston
Cardinals: Maybe, but Carson Palmer's still around
49ers: YES
Rams: Nope, Jared Goff was just drafted last year
Seahawks: Nope, Russell Wilson:

AFC:
Jets: YES, even though Petty/Hackenberg are still w/ team
Dolphins: At FA, Tannehill was still w/ team. After injury, signed Cutler due to familiarity with offense. Also didn't sign Kap b/c of Castro comments
Patriots: Nope, Brady
Colts: Nope, Luck
Texans: Nope, Watson
Jaguars: Nope, Bortles (though he ain't any good)
Titans: Nope, Mariota
Ravens: I guess, but Flacco's still with the team
Steelers: Nope, Big Ben
Bengals: Nope, Dalton
Browns: Yes (even though they're starting the rook for now)
Chiefs: Nope, Alex Smith
Broncos: They have Siemian and Paxton Lynch and Osweiler now (tho Kap's arguably better than those 3)
Raiders: Nope, Carr
Chargers: Nope, Rivers

TL;DR, there's only like 4 or 5 teams out of the 32 in the league that actually could have made use of the QB. So when reporters and people on twitter claim everyone's refusing to sign him, it's not necessarily because of want, but of need.

Now, the easy question is what about being a backup? What the activists and others fail to realize that the backup QB role is not always about talent. Take away the Vick/McNabb tandem in Philadelphia, but you almost never see an uber talented backup QB. The role of the backup QB has one of two purposes: either be a vet and be a mentor to the starter or be an up-and-coming rook and learn from the starter.

Additionally, your backup QB tends to be behind the scenes and not newsworthy of any note. It's the case in almost any sport. Likewise, the starting QB has to be the leader of the offense and rile up the troops.

Based on the above, you see that Kap doesn't really match the true job requirements of a backup QB. He's one of those players who hasn't had the vast experience of a vet but isn't a spring chicken by any means. Likewise, he's just going to garner a lot of attention as a backup QB that likely won't be any of his fault. His supporters might actually be a hindrance in that aspect. You just know that any team that has him on the roster will be answering a lot of non-football questions that are naturally going to be a distraction to the team. It just simply is. It'll be the same with the Melo trade rumors all season. If you're a rebuilding team, you don't want that. A playoff team, nope.

Now of the 5 teams that could actually use him, we can take the 49ers out of the running obviously. Again, I don't think Miami was ever realistic. I think the Jets could have been an interesting situation, but the owner doesn't want any part of him (it's been publicized). Don't really get why.

I do actually think the Ravens were a true candidate, but his GF pretty much ruined that opportunity for him (when I say that his supporters can be a hindrance, just look at that example). I think the only real way a team can take a chance on Kap is to have an influential NFL ambassador (think Tony Dungy) or team ambassador (HOFs, etc.) personally talk to the owners and vouch for him.

However, the issue of kneeling for the flag does not have unanimous support within the African American NFL Community and any methods of repairing that relationship has been destroyed due to Kap's supporters publicly rebuking them at any given opportunity. While Colin has done a lot within the community of donating to various causes and educating the youth, he should probably start doing interviews to allow him an opportunity to speak for himself rather than having other people speak for him.

Until the above happens, it's not likely he'll play another game in the NFL anytime soon. Sadly, race is a part of it, but it's not the only determinant.


I basically agree with 99% of what you said. I just don't think I understand why you are saying race is part of it. Do you think if he were white doing the exact same actions he would be on a team? There is no denying that race plays a role in the preceding events that would lead to a protest. But in regards to the protest and non-signing itself what role is race playing??

FWIW as a Steelers fan I expect our team to sign Kap after a Big Ben injury. Ben might retire and the roster is too good to give up on the season. Our back up is as you said a back up and Kap is young enough to take the reigns for our other stars prime. Promise you this: If Ben gets hurt, Kap will either be a Steeler or a Raven.

No faith in Landry Jones huh? :D

I liked the Josh Dobbs pick for you guys. If he is groomed right he could be Ben's successor.
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Re: OT: WFAN's Craig Carton Arrested 

Post#195 » by Mecca » Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:25 am

Greenie wrote:
nykballa2k4 wrote:
Polk377 wrote:Yes you are right about that. I am hoping Hahn's show can be a go to for Knicks and basketball talk in general. I trust his insight on the team since I know he is on the inside. I thought the Stephen A Smith Show could be that show but it seems all he is interested in now is sports politics and race baiting.


I don't get what the big deal about Kap not being on a team is... Tebow made the playoffs with Denver and was considered to be too much to carry on a roster. Kap can't keep a low profile. Back up QB's are meant to be seen and not heard and he can't help himself from making one bizarre stunt after another. But nah, it's because of race... Show me other players who wear Castro stuff... If you are gonna be a knucklehead you better be REALLY good. He isn't. EDIT: Relative to NFL starting QB's I mean. Obviously even the worst NFL QB is freakishly good by human standards... but his level of attention seeking would require him being a top 15QB in the league... which he isn't.

Jay Cutler starts....
Who starts for the Jets again?

That's why this becomes a problem in many black peoples eyes.



NFL business is in major trouble by blacklisting Kaepernick. I just wrote a paper on it this afternoon.

this type long but essentially attempting to suppress Kaepernick is only going to create more activism within the NFL. Only way to fix it is for the league to give Ownership to a progressive mind that can speak for the employees.

To quote the bone chilling words uttered from the legendary Frederick Douglas, “To suppress free speech is a double wrong. It violates the rights of the hearer as well as those of the speaker.” Although this quote is over 100 years old, the premise is as prominent in present day as ever before. Hundreds of big businesses and major corporations have shuttered at the thoughts of their employees expressing free speech and escaping the monoculture of America. Irony seems to resonate as a major theme in our country’s history, as the “Land of the free” seems to suppress independent thought from the working class. As the National Football League has encompassed over 13 billion dollars in revenue just last year (Forbes), the NFL has reigned supreme as the pinnacle of financial dominance in our country. As the NFL has reached unheralded financial success as thee major corporation in America, they have attempted to strip their employees of their platform, creating a suppressed monoculture. However, as Colin Kaepernick is choosing to remain righteous, using his platform for progression, the NFL is blacklisting him, foreshadowing friction within the NFL and its consumers and employees for years to come.
The battle of Kaepernick versus the NFL holds much more significance than the 2 parties involved. Kaepernick is a clear representation for the voiceless voices in our society, whereas the NFL represents major corporations lack of empathy for social awareness and overall focus on revenue. Considering this, the NFL has miscalculated its approach towards the Kaepernick situation. To put into context, 70% of the NFL’s population is black. As the NFL Players Association is a fraternity amongst athletes, shunning Kaepernick creates anguish between the players and NFL owners. With the next Collective Bargaining Agreement looming in the year 2021, and a plethora of different issues at hand between Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy, lack of adequate pensions and now suppressing its employees voices through blacklisting players, a lockout in 2021 is becoming a realistic possibility.
Along with the Kaepernick situation adding fuel to the fire in a potential lockout, the NFL may also be susceptible to losing revenue as quickly as this year due to the mishandling of the situation. As African Americans make up 15% of the NFL’s viewership and overall audience, protests of merchandise and ticket sales have already came to fruition from its audience. In example, according to the Washington Post, A half-dozen black Southern pastors, with a network of peers all over the country, have asked churches to tune out the NFL. To emphasize the potential of these pastors protests, they have made a video titled “I’m Blacking You Out” which has amassed over 7 million viewers already. Along with Pastors creating videos gone viral, various people in positions of power have taken stands against the NFL. Film director Spike Lee had orchestrated a multi-group that hundreds of people flocked to right outside of the NFL’s Park Avenue Offices just last week. In greater context, Lee’s protest didn’t consist of just anyone. According to the Washington Post, college presidents, lawyers, and law officers stood for Kaepernick’s justice. The outcome of this dynamic is still very much unknown, but some believe that the NFL has already fumbled the situation even from a financial perspective. According to author and sports historian Rob Ruck, “what we’re seeing and hearing could easily — right now — could easily gain greater momentum and cost the NFL a segment of its fan base.” As the fans are the people solely responsible for NFL apparel, viewing, and ticket purchases, millions of dollars can potentially be at stake right now.
With an abundance of revenue at stake, the Owners must work together to find a solution. Does a solution even exist? What if the solution are the Owners? You see, in the NFL’s history, progression stemmed from Owners who stood for equality. In example, according to the Washington Post, There was Fritz Pollard in the 1920s, the long gap before the 1946 signings of players such as Marion Motley and Kenny Washington and then the wholesale restructuring forced by Lamar Hunt, who drafted AFL players from historically black colleges and universities, and Al Davis, who fought not just for blacks but also Latinos.” When searching for that leader today, the NFL is out of luck. The solution lies in having an owner who fights for the Kaepernick’s of the world. Someone in Owner meetings that can represent demographics threatening to protest the sport if they continue to suppress the oppressed. Unfortunately, these racial conversations haven’t come to fruition within Owner meetings as the NFL’s brand has been teflon in recent time. The Washington Post states that “The enormous commercial success of the league in the intervening years, McDaniels argued, bred brand conservatism — and short-circuited conversations about racial issues inside of the league.” However, as Kaepernick has faced such injustice, he may serve as the lighter to burn an entire bridge, ultimately costing the NFL its prized almighty dollar.
Overall, when you examine the NFL’s approach towards their employees expressing their voices, the words of Frederick Douglass remain true today. Except with this specific case, the NFL may be the ones shooting themselves in the foot. By attempting to suppress the oppressed, more people are revolting than ever before. As it stands, the number of players kneeling for the anthem has grown to over 20, hundreds are speaking out against issues, and thousands are boycotting creating revenue for the sport. Irony plays a pivotal role here, as Owners’ go-to excuse is that they wouldn’t want to upset their fan base. Well ironically enough, the fan base and most importantly, it’s employers are ready to revolt, which can cause the NFL to lose millions with the next CBA looming in the shadows.

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Re: OT: WFAN's Craig Carton Arrested 

Post#196 » by Fat Kat » Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:36 am

Polk377 wrote:
Fat Kat wrote:
Polk377 wrote:Hmmm could it be that a lot of Americans don't like seeing this guy disrespect the flag by kneeling during the anthem? I really don't care if he wants to stand, kneel or lay down on his back. That is his rights as an American of freedom of speech and expression. There are consequences for every action and he is facing his right now. Now tell me who did it actually help?


Millions were raised to help people in Somalia, meals on wheels, and charities that focus on racial issues. By Kap and numerous celebrities. Awareness was raised and conversations are had everyday because of his protest. That's the first step of many.

Kap knew there would be consequences, but that should be expected. Many have died defending the civil rights of others, despite folks like you warning them of the risk. It's part of the long, hard struggle black folks have had to make for equality.

I don't think he really knew of the consequences otherwise he wouldn't have done it. As nykballa2k4 said, I think it was more about him rather than the movement itself. Honestly if it took Kappernick taking a knee for someone to pay attention to the social issues around this country than shame on them for not paying attention to the many outlets that have spoken on the matter way before him. Please don't pull that people like you shyt. We are already going too far with this racial and political talk here. Let's not go further please.


You have no idea what he knew. There are certainly a multitude of examples of the downside of going down that road. One's things for sure, it has brought attention to the issue.

And you're discouraging his protest, no? So people like you, refers to those holding on dearly to the status quo, despite the societal inequities. Are you as engaged when the discussions pop up after an unarmed black man is murdered?
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Re: OT: WFAN's Craig Carton Arrested & Suspended 

Post#197 » by nykballa2k4 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:38 am

Phish Tank wrote:
nykballa2k4 wrote:I basically agree with 99% of what you said. I just don't think I understand why you are saying race is part of it. Do you think if he were white doing the exact same actions he would be on a team? There is no denying that race plays a role in the preceding events that would lead to a protest. But in regards to the protest and non-signing itself what role is race playing??

FWIW as a Steelers fan I expect our team to sign Kap after a Big Ben injury. Ben might retire and the roster is too good to give up on the season. Our back up is as you said a back up and Kap is young enough to take the reigns for our other stars prime. Promise you this: If Ben gets hurt, Kap will either be a Steeler or a Raven.


I mean the bold is pretty much explaining how race is just a whole part of the discussion. Racial injustice -> protest -> people feeling "disrespected" for not standing for flag -> not being signed.

I'm not saying you're wrong in any means, it's just that indirectly race has had an impact in all the preceding events. Now we also live in a world that is becoming rapidly binary. There's no middle ground; you're for a cause or you're against it. Twitter and social media is largely guilty of this phenomenon as it allows people to post anonymously over the internet.


Yea, I am not a big fan of these forced options... Is it possible to be for the cause but against Kap?
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Re: OT: WFAN's Craig Carton Arrested 

Post#198 » by Yankeeknickfan » Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:39 am

nykballa2k4 wrote:
Greenie wrote:
Polk377 wrote:
Rosenberg was added to the Kay Show to be a personality not an expert. I have been a Kay Show fan for a long time and liked the addition of Peter since I have been listening to him for years on Hot97. He adds entertainment to the show and plays well off the personalities of Kay and Don. The best third piece to the Kay Show was Ryan Rucco though. Rothenberg and Rosenberg would be a good show but he just joined Humpty and Canty and Hahn has his own show now taking Rothenberg's spot.



Everyone you just named is straight trash talking about basketball. They are all clueless as fuq and say **** just to piss fans off.


Assuming you were not talking about Hahn and Humpty. The Kay show has always been a Yankees first kind of show.

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Re: OT: WFAN's Craig Carton Arrested & Suspended 

Post#199 » by Phish Tank » Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:39 am

nykballa2k4 wrote:
Phish Tank wrote:
nykballa2k4 wrote:I basically agree with 99% of what you said. I just don't think I understand why you are saying race is part of it. Do you think if he were white doing the exact same actions he would be on a team? There is no denying that race plays a role in the preceding events that would lead to a protest. But in regards to the protest and non-signing itself what role is race playing??

FWIW as a Steelers fan I expect our team to sign Kap after a Big Ben injury. Ben might retire and the roster is too good to give up on the season. Our back up is as you said a back up and Kap is young enough to take the reigns for our other stars prime. Promise you this: If Ben gets hurt, Kap will either be a Steeler or a Raven.


I mean the bold is pretty much explaining how race is just a whole part of the discussion. Racial injustice -> protest -> people feeling "disrespected" for not standing for flag -> not being signed.

I'm not saying you're wrong in any means, it's just that indirectly race has had an impact in all the preceding events. Now we also live in a world that is becoming rapidly binary. There's no middle ground; you're for a cause or you're against it. Twitter and social media is largely guilty of this phenomenon as it allows people to post anonymously over the internet.


Yea, I am not a big fan of these forced options... Is it possible to be for the cause but against Kap?


i guess you can, if you just talk to people in person
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Re: OT: WFAN's Craig Carton Arrested & Suspended 

Post#200 » by nykballa2k4 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:49 am

Phish Tank wrote:
nykballa2k4 wrote:
Phish Tank wrote:
I mean the bold is pretty much explaining how race is just a whole part of the discussion. Racial injustice -> protest -> people feeling "disrespected" for not standing for flag -> not being signed.

I'm not saying you're wrong in any means, it's just that indirectly race has had an impact in all the preceding events. Now we also live in a world that is becoming rapidly binary. There's no middle ground; you're for a cause or you're against it. Twitter and social media is largely guilty of this phenomenon as it allows people to post anonymously over the internet.


Yea, I am not a big fan of these forced options... Is it possible to be for the cause but against Kap?


i guess you can, if you just talk to people in person


well it's really more than that... it is about voting for the local politicians that are discussing these issues. It is about engaging with the local offices for the major political parties and asking what their candidates can do and possibly taking a role within these places...
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