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2017/2018 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.)

Moderators: moocow007, Knickstape1214, magnumt, Capn'O, King of Canada, j4remi, Deeeez Knicks, Thorn, GONYK, NoLayupRule, mrpoetryNmotion, Thugger HBC

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DK
2
10%
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5%
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15%
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Re: 2017/2018 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#361 » by dakomish23 » Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:35 pm

Mush Man wrote:It's so easy to let a little bit of hope change your whole plan.
We had a plan. We should not let this short 500 streak change it.

if we have any long term thinking at all we will be trying to sell high(wish) right now on
Lee, O'Quinn and Thomas

Don't get me wrong, I really like all three players. I especially have been impressed with how good Lee is this year.
But all three need to go while they will bring something back. We're a surprise 500 team. All three of these guys have played well. There value can only go down from here.



There is a contest running on the trade board. There have been a number of trades that have scored points (5 people vote yes for both teams before 5 vote no) with the Knicks involved. Here are two I would pull the trigger on right now. Both of them scored solid yes's with voters including fans of the other team.


TRADE 1

Knicks - Courtney Lee, Kyle O'Quinn
New Orleans - Omer Asik, Alexis Ajinca, Frank Jackson, 2018 1st (Top 8 Protected)

Lands us a good 1st, plus an almost first (Jackson was the first pick of the second round this past draft) and saves us 8M with Asik's final year 3M buy out. Ask and Ajinca never see the floor opening up time for Hernangomez and even Noah (who we are never getting rid of, so we might as well let him teach hustle and smart unselfish play by example. Jackson and Frank get to grow together to be a decade long combo at PG. They might even be able to play a few minutes together once they are in their prime depending on their shooting.



TRADE 2

Knicks - Lance Thomas
Timberwolves: Cole Aldrich, 2018 MIN 2nd and right to swap Mia 2019 2nd with Least favorable of Orl/Cle/Hou 2019 2nd

We clear another 5M with Aldrich final year 2M buy out and get a really good second. Plus we open up even more playing time for young wings.


Yes, these trades end up with a bunch of centers in the 12-15 slots, but who cares - they need to be looked at as contracts, saving money and years, and not as players at this point.



After these two trades, you do everything possible to maximize Kanter's (and to some extent McDermott's) value to see if they might bring something at the trade deadline. Before the season I thought there was no way Kanter would be flippable, but now seeing that he is playing better D than advertised, and more importantly what a strong team guy he is, it gives me some hope that some team looking for a little offense at Center and a shot of team chemistry might make an offer.


Finally, I know this will be a minority opinion given how everyone is falling in love with his play this year, but if Hardaway is playing at all star level at the end of the trade deadline, we should sniff around to see if he can be flipped for a dead contract and a really good first (or someone picked in the lottery the last two seasons). Maybe a team with really poor history of being able to attract free agents (Phoenix, Charlotte, Sacramento, Utah, etc) might look at his deal as a real plus running almost the entire length.


I’d do either deal in heartbeat. I’ve been proposing either Lee or LFT to NOP for Asik or Ajinca plus Jackson for a while. I don’t think we’d get a first too and it wouldn’t stop me if we didn’t. The cap space in 2019 plus Jackson is enough.

I’ll add this deal

Lee KOQ

For

Abrines Singler Grant Huestis 2 2nds

That team desperately needs a 3&D wing and a backup C. We get some youth who could stick or we let them go this summer. Plus 2019 cap space.
Dkillanyk4lyf wrote:Melo is the reason why we are in the mess we are in now. Acquiring him was the biggest mistake in knicks history.


blueNorange wrote:good thing knicks have kanter because willy looking pedestrian af
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Re: 2017/2018 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#362 » by Blockwatcher » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:01 pm

Kemba Walker
Nic Batum

For

Noah
Baker
Lance Thomas
F Ntilikina
Dotson
WHG
And this years pick top 3 protected

I don't think either team would do it and I wouldn't do it. But I seen it on another board and I had to see what real knick fans thought of this nonsense.
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Re: 2017/2018 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#363 » by Capn'O » Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:16 pm

I'm the daddy???
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Re: 2017/2018 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#364 » by KnickFan33 » Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:19 pm

Besart19 wrote:Noah is needed as a vet this season. After this one you retire him, give his money while geting the medical exception and make him a diffensive/big man coach


You realize it isn't up to the Knicks whether he retires or not right? And I would assume he has to have documentation stating he can't play anymore to get the mentioned medical exception.
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Re: 2017/2018 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#365 » by dakomish23 » Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:20 pm

Blockwatcher wrote:Kemba Walker
Nic Batum

For

Noah
Baker
Lance Thomas
F Ntilikina
Dotson
WHG
And this years pick top 3 protected

I don't think either team would do it and I wouldn't do it. But I seen it on another board and I had to see what real knick fans thought of this nonsense.


We could get Kemba with cap space in 2019 if we play this right and we could probably trade for Batum in a year or two without having to give up Frank. I wouldn’t do it assuming we’re still trying to rebuild this year.
Dkillanyk4lyf wrote:Melo is the reason why we are in the mess we are in now. Acquiring him was the biggest mistake in knicks history.


blueNorange wrote:good thing knicks have kanter because willy looking pedestrian af
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Re: 2017/2018 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#366 » by Capn'O » Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:26 pm

Knickstape1214 wrote:
Zingod wrote:
Knickstape1214 wrote:No.

Looney is 21 and getting playing time for NBA champs and playing well. Most 2nd rounders are out of the league before you remember their name. Maybe not the best fit but if u can get a young improving rotation player for a 2nd round pick you do it.

Looney hasn't done anything in the NBA, had a bad hip injury that zapped most of his athleticism, and has no position - not skilled enough to be a 4 and isn't a 5 either...AND they declined his option, making him a UFA. If we want him, we can sign him. Also, saying he "gets minutes" is a major stretch. He's played in half of the games, and only gets ~10 minutes per game that he does play in.

As for Dekker, no thanks. Combo forward who can't shoot efficiently, doesn't have a good handle, not a creator, not a defender, and can't beat out guys on a bad Clippers' roster for minutes. If we were to trade for any player on that team, Thornwell would be the guy...someone we should have drafted.

Again, no. We're better off keeping the pick and drafting someone in the early second, than giving it up for Looney or Dekker.


Dekker's coming around and would probably play better for Horns than Doc. The Clippers struggle to use Splash and Slash players like him well. I'd take a flyer on him. Probably not for that second. We need to multiply rookie scale assets, not move them around.

It's too bad Doc's not still prez or he might consider something like SuperCoolBeas for him.
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Re: 2017/2018 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#367 » by dakomish23 » Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:32 pm

Capn'O wrote:
Knickstape1214 wrote:
Zingod wrote:Looney is 21 and getting playing time for NBA champs and playing well. Most 2nd rounders are out of the league before you remember their name. Maybe not the best fit but if u can get a young improving rotation player for a 2nd round pick you do it.

Looney hasn't done anything in the NBA, had a bad hip injury that zapped most of his athleticism, and has no position - not skilled enough to be a 4 and isn't a 5 either...AND they declined his option, making him a UFA. If we want him, we can sign him. Also, saying he "gets minutes" is a major stretch. He's played in half of the games, and only gets ~10 minutes per game that he does play in.

As for Dekker, no thanks. Combo forward who can't shoot efficiently, doesn't have a good handle, not a creator, not a defender, and can't beat out guys on a bad Clippers' roster for minutes. If we were to trade for any player on that team, Thornwell would be the guy...someone we should have drafted.

Again, no. We're better off keeping the pick and drafting someone in the early second, than giving it up for Looney or Dekker.


Dekker's coming around and would probably play better for Horns than Doc. The Clippers struggle to use Splash and Slash players like him well. I'd take a flyer on him. Probably not for that second. We need to multiply rookie scale assets, not move them around.

It's too bad Doc's not still prez or he might consider something like SuperCoolBeas for him.


I’d like Dekker here too. I think he has some potential as a small ball 4 off the bench. Idk about trading that pick for him though. A lot of guys I like in the 2nd round this year in particular Melton the anti Felton.
Dkillanyk4lyf wrote:Melo is the reason why we are in the mess we are in now. Acquiring him was the biggest mistake in knicks history.


blueNorange wrote:good thing knicks have kanter because willy looking pedestrian af
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Re: 2017/2018 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#368 » by Amare_1_Knicks » Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:00 pm

What do we think of trading Hernangomez?

Now, I’m a fan of his, and to start the season I was beyond puzzled as to why he was barely getting minutes, but it became rather obvious sooner than later. There’s a lot of a skill overlap with himself and Kanter, and O’Quinn off the bench offers a skill set that he simply doesn’t have — which is a rugged, defensive style mixed with some terrific passing for a big man — not to mention he has a nice efficient offensive game as well.

With Noah, Kanter, O’Quinn, and Willy, it’s obvious that someone needs to go. Kanter is playing the best of the four, quite easily, even with his defensive woes, and he’s only but two years older than Willy is. O’Quinn has a player option for the 2019 season, but he seems like he wants to remain, and Noah is signed through 2020 with a contract that’s difficult to move.

Would it be a good idea to move him as opposed to Kanter?(the idea has been floating around about trading Kanter because his trade value is high, but what could it hurt to shop Willy and see his worth?) Not quite sure if Nerlens Noel is on the trading block, but he’s only playing 12MPG in Dallas, and I believe he’s been benched and may have had some DNP’s. Could a package centered around Willy be enough to obtain a Nerlens Noel?

Didn’t see a thread on the topic.
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Re: 2017/2018 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#369 » by magnumt » Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:08 pm

Capn'O wrote:I'm the daddy???


Bitch...daddy. :D

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Re: 2017/2018 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#370 » by Capn'O » Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:13 pm

magnumt wrote:
Capn'O wrote:I'm the daddy???


Bitch...daddy. :D

--Mags :beer:


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Re: 2017/2018 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#371 » by KnickFan33 » Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:21 pm

Amare_1_Knicks wrote:What do we think of trading Hernangomez?

Now, I’m a fan of his, and to start the season I was beyond puzzled as to why he was barely getting minutes, but it became rather obvious sooner than later. There’s a lot of a skill overlap with himself and Kanter, and O’Quinn off the bench offers a skill set that he simply doesn’t have — which is a rugged, defensive style mixed with some terrific passing for a big man — not to mention he has a nice efficient offensive game as well.

With Noah, Kanter, O’Quinn, and Willy, it’s obvious that someone needs to go. Kanter is playing the best of the four, quite easily, even with his defensive woes, and he’s only but two years older than Willy is. O’Quinn has a player option for the 2019 season, but he seems like he wants to remain, and Noah is signed through 2020 with a contract that’s difficult to move.

Would it be a good idea to move him as opposed to Kanter?(the idea has been floating around about trading Kanter because his trade value is high, but what could it hurt to shop Willy and see his worth?) Not quite sure if Nerlens Noel is on the trading block, but he’s only playing 12MPG in Dallas, and I believe he’s been benched and may have had some DNP’s. Could a package centered around Willy be enough to obtain a Nerlens Noel?

Didn’t see a thread on the topic.


He's locked in for a few more years on a cheap contract. It makes little to no sense to be actively shopping him unless he needs to be added to get rid of a large contract and/or we're getting an upgrade in return.
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Re: 2017/2018 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#372 » by magnumt » Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:24 pm

Amare_1_Knicks wrote:Now, I’m a fan of his, and to start the season I was beyond puzzled as to why he was barely getting minutes, but it became rather obvious sooner than later. There’s a lot of a skill overlap with himself and Kanter, and O’Quinn off the bench offers a skill set that he simply doesn’t have — which is a rugged, defensive style mixed with some terrific passing for a big man — not to mention he has a nice efficient offensive game as well.

With Noah, Kanter, O’Quinn, and Willy, it’s obvious that someone needs to go. Kanter is playing the best of the four, quite easily, even with his defensive woes, and he’s only but two years older than Willy is. O’Quinn has a player option for the 2019 season, but he seems like he wants to remain, and Noah is signed through 2020 with a contract that’s difficult to move.

Would it be a good idea to move him as opposed to Kanter?(the idea has been floating around about trading Kanter because his trade value is high, but what could it hurt to shop Willy and see his worth?) Not quite sure if Nerlens Noel is on the trading block, but he’s only playing 12MPG in Dallas, and I believe he’s been benched and may have had some DNP’s. Could a package centered around Willy be enough to obtain a Nerlens Noel?

Didn’t see a thread on the topic.


I can't see NY moving WillyG this Season unless it's a superb offer.

He makes less than $5 Million/Year and while he's a door on Defense, he's still an excellent passer, young, VERY skilled Post scorer and has EXCELLENT hands.

Also, they'll likely want to see what happens with KOQ. If he leaves, we'll have just Kanter (yes, Porzingis can back up the Center position, but he's not always healthy and the position is very physically demanding). And Noah may very well retire soon.

We could go from a glut of Big Men to a sudden deficit of one.

Kanter isn't being moved. I said this in the Preseason, but the guy is on a good contract, still young, and a prolific producer in the Post. Since then, he's learned to pass better, and is a heart warrior of this team. He's the epitome of 90s Knicks! The same with Porzingis & THJr.

Gotta give Perry & Mills credit for going against the grain and media "experts" and building us a cornerstone!

--Mags :beer:
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Gordon Hayward / Derrick Rose / Sterling Brown
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Re: 2017/2018 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#373 » by Capn'O » Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:30 pm

magnumt wrote:
Amare_1_Knicks wrote:Now, I’m a fan of his, and to start the season I was beyond puzzled as to why he was barely getting minutes, but it became rather obvious sooner than later. There’s a lot of a skill overlap with himself and Kanter, and O’Quinn off the bench offers a skill set that he simply doesn’t have — which is a rugged, defensive style mixed with some terrific passing for a big man — not to mention he has a nice efficient offensive game as well.

With Noah, Kanter, O’Quinn, and Willy, it’s obvious that someone needs to go. Kanter is playing the best of the four, quite easily, even with his defensive woes, and he’s only but two years older than Willy is. O’Quinn has a player option for the 2019 season, but he seems like he wants to remain, and Noah is signed through 2020 with a contract that’s difficult to move.

Would it be a good idea to move him as opposed to Kanter?(the idea has been floating around about trading Kanter because his trade value is high, but what could it hurt to shop Willy and see his worth?) Not quite sure if Nerlens Noel is on the trading block, but he’s only playing 12MPG in Dallas, and I believe he’s been benched and may have had some DNP’s. Could a package centered around Willy be enough to obtain a Nerlens Noel?

Didn’t see a thread on the topic.


I can't see NY moving WillyG this Season unless it's a superb offer.

He makes less than $5 Million/Year and while he's a door on Defense, he's still an excellent passer, young, VERY skilled Post scorer and has EXCELLENT hands.

Also, they'll likely want to see what happens with KOQ. If he leaves, we'll have just Kanter (yes, Porzingis can back up the Center position, but he's not always healthy and the position is very physically demanding). And Noah may very well retire soon.

We could go from a glut of Big Men to a sudden deficit of one.

Kanter isn't being moved. I said this in the Preseason, but the guy is on a good contract, still young, and a prolific producer in the Post. Since then, he's learned to pass better, and is a heart warrior of this team. He's the epitome of 90s Knicks! The same with Porzingis & THJr.

Gotta give Perry & Mills credit for going against the grain and media "experts" and building us a cornerstone!

--Mags :beer:



KOQ is almost certain to opt out. He's well underpaid for what he does. But we could still bring him back.

With the Cs - I think we need more eval time. Specifically, to see who looks better between Willy and Kyle and look to move the other one around the deadline if a GOOD deal shows itself. No need to make a move for its own sake, as you mention.

Knicks are in a situation where they can afford to be patient. And picky about the return.
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Re: 2017/2018 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#374 » by deneem4 » Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:52 pm

Would a wiz unprotected 1st be enough for kanter?
Pay your beals....or its lights out!!!
Bron, Bosh, Wade is like Mike, Hakeem, barkley...3 top 5 picks from same draft
mike, hakeem and Barkley on the same team!!!!
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Re: 2017/2018 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#375 » by magnumt » Fri Dec 1, 2017 2:29 am

deneem4 wrote:Would a wiz unprotected 1st be enough for kanter?


No. At the very best it'll be a late Lottery pick.

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Re: 2017/2018 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#376 » by tleikheen » Fri Dec 1, 2017 3:21 am

Knicks should try to pick up Mario Hezonja 6'8"/218# (SG),22 yrs old on the cheap who seems to have never clicked with Frank Vogel.
Knicks need a young ,athletic SG/SF.Courtney Lee is playing great now but is not counted on long term.
Orlando is weak at PG ,starter and backup ,use Baker or Sessions or Dotson for Hezonja.
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Re: 2017/2018 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#377 » by HarthorneWingo » Fri Dec 1, 2017 7:30 am

magnumt wrote:
Capn'O wrote:I'm the daddy???


Bitch...daddy. :D

--Mags :beer:


Mac daddy. :lol:
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Re: 2017/2018 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#378 » by HarthorneWingo » Fri Dec 1, 2017 7:37 am

magnumt wrote:
Amare_1_Knicks wrote:Now, I’m a fan of his, and to start the season I was beyond puzzled as to why he was barely getting minutes, but it became rather obvious sooner than later. There’s a lot of a skill overlap with himself and Kanter, and O’Quinn off the bench offers a skill set that he simply doesn’t have — which is a rugged, defensive style mixed with some terrific passing for a big man — not to mention he has a nice efficient offensive game as well.

With Noah, Kanter, O’Quinn, and Willy, it’s obvious that someone needs to go. Kanter is playing the best of the four, quite easily, even with his defensive woes, and he’s only but two years older than Willy is. O’Quinn has a player option for the 2019 season, but he seems like he wants to remain, and Noah is signed through 2020 with a contract that’s difficult to move.

Would it be a good idea to move him as opposed to Kanter?(the idea has been floating around about trading Kanter because his trade value is high, but what could it hurt to shop Willy and see his worth?) Not quite sure if Nerlens Noel is on the trading block, but he’s only playing 12MPG in Dallas, and I believe he’s been benched and may have had some DNP’s. Could a package centered around Willy be enough to obtain a Nerlens Noel?

Didn’t see a thread on the topic.


I can't see NY moving WillyG this Season unless it's a superb offer.

He makes less than $5 Million/Year and while he's a door on Defense, he's still an excellent passer, young, VERY skilled Post scorer and has EXCELLENT hands.

Also, they'll likely want to see what happens with KOQ. If he leaves, we'll have just Kanter (yes, Porzingis can back up the Center position, but he's not always healthy and the position is very physically demanding). And Noah may very well retire soon.

We could go from a glut of Big Men to a sudden deficit of one.

Kanter isn't being moved. I said this in the Preseason, but the guy is on a good contract, still young, and a prolific producer in the Post. Since then, he's learned to pass better, and is a heart warrior of this team. He's the epitome of 90s Knicks! The same with Porzingis & THJr.

Gotta give Perry & Mills credit for going against the grain and media "experts" and building us a cornerstone!

--Mags :beer:


I would think Kyle would be the one to go. I like Kyle a lot. He's a NY-er and he plays with passion, is great in the locker room I'm sure, and he has some skills. Obviously, if he wants to go out and get "paid," then I hope he finds a good situation for himself and gets all the money he can. But if he wants to stay here and give us a hometown discount and it's reasonable, is he worth keeping around?

I could be wrong but I have a feeling that the front office really likes Lee, Kyle and Lance and is going to keep around unless they get a super deal in return.
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Re: 2017/2018 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#379 » by HarthorneWingo » Fri Dec 1, 2017 7:43 am

Capn'O wrote:
magnumt wrote:
Amare_1_Knicks wrote:Now, I’m a fan of his, and to start the season I was beyond puzzled as to why he was barely getting minutes, but it became rather obvious sooner than later. There’s a lot of a skill overlap with himself and Kanter, and O’Quinn off the bench offers a skill set that he simply doesn’t have — which is a rugged, defensive style mixed with some terrific passing for a big man — not to mention he has a nice efficient offensive game as well.

With Noah, Kanter, O’Quinn, and Willy, it’s obvious that someone needs to go. Kanter is playing the best of the four, quite easily, even with his defensive woes, and he’s only but two years older than Willy is. O’Quinn has a player option for the 2019 season, but he seems like he wants to remain, and Noah is signed through 2020 with a contract that’s difficult to move.

Would it be a good idea to move him as opposed to Kanter?(the idea has been floating around about trading Kanter because his trade value is high, but what could it hurt to shop Willy and see his worth?) Not quite sure if Nerlens Noel is on the trading block, but he’s only playing 12MPG in Dallas, and I believe he’s been benched and may have had some DNP’s. Could a package centered around Willy be enough to obtain a Nerlens Noel?

Didn’t see a thread on the topic.


I can't see NY moving WillyG this Season unless it's a superb offer.

He makes less than $5 Million/Year and while he's a door on Defense, he's still an excellent passer, young, VERY skilled Post scorer and has EXCELLENT hands.

Also, they'll likely want to see what happens with KOQ. If he leaves, we'll have just Kanter (yes, Porzingis can back up the Center position, but he's not always healthy and the position is very physically demanding). And Noah may very well retire soon.

We could go from a glut of Big Men to a sudden deficit of one.

Kanter isn't being moved. I said this in the Preseason, but the guy is on a good contract, still young, and a prolific producer in the Post. Since then, he's learned to pass better, and is a heart warrior of this team. He's the epitome of 90s Knicks! The same with Porzingis & THJr.

Gotta give Perry & Mills credit for going against the grain and media "experts" and building us a cornerstone!

--Mags :beer:



KOQ is almost certain to opt out. He's well underpaid for what he does. But we could still bring him back.

With the Cs - I think we need more eval time. Specifically, to see who looks better between Willy and Kyle and look to move the other one around the deadline if a GOOD deal shows itself. No need to make a move for its own sake, as you mention.

Knicks are in a situation where they can afford to be patient. And picky about the return.


How do we figure out what Kyle's true market value is, both contractually and as a tradeable asset? What if we could sign him to a 3 year deal under $30M, something similar to Lance's deal? Isn't he then worth keeping? I think "Hell yes!"
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Re: 2017/2018 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#380 » by RiotPunch » Fri Dec 1, 2017 9:30 am

Bucks fan coming in peace--

Looking at some of these trade ideas, wondering if anything makes sense between us. We need rebounding and shooting, so a KOQ/Lee package is an intriguing one. How far off is something like:

KOQ / Lee for Teletovic / D.J. Wilson / 2nd?

Saves immediate $$$, sheds a year of Lee's deal and adds a 1st round rook & 2nd rounder to the farm. Apologies if I'm off my rocker here.
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