OT: Westbrook five years, $233M

[thebuzzardman]

Westbrook $233 million
Harden $228 million
Wall $207 million
Curry $205 million

What did the Knicks lead guards for the past 5 seasons get?

1 year vet mins

So it means the Knicks couldn't get good guards with FA $ because they had too much money tied up in a wing that doesn't create?

I'd agree.

[Oscirus]

Yea I don't see franchise players leaving team for championships anymore. Rings are nice, but money's nicer

[dakomish23]

Westbrook $233 million
Harden $228 million
Wall $207 million
Curry $205 million

What did the Knicks lead guards for the past 5 seasons get?

1 year vet mins

So it means the Knicks couldn't get good guards with FA $ because they had too much money tied up in a wing that doesn't create?

I'd agree.

So your conclusion on why this organization has not had a good PG all these years is because of Anthony's salary?

- In 2011, they chose to amnesty Billups months after opting into his contract instead of opting out and using it on Amare down the line. How did they spend it? On a C.
- they had one near term first they could trade. How did they use it in 2014? On a PF/C.
- They had cap space in 2015 & 2016 & chose to spend it how? PGs? Nope. Guess who by far got the biggest contracts from the team? Centers.

But it was Anthony's salary that prevented them from getting a good PG?

I'd strongly disagree.

This organization has ignored the position for years & applied bandaid after bandaid on a gunshot wound.

Finally (FINALLY!!!) they decided to address it. Did Anthony's salary didn't stop them?

[knickfan]

Props to Westbrook, he's just a Curry/Durant/Klay/Dray retirement (to focus on VC's in Silicon Valley) away from bringing OKC a championship. Could it happen within the next five years? Maybe!

[thebuzzardman]

Westbrook $233 million
Harden $228 million
Wall $207 million
Curry $205 million

What did the Knicks lead guards for the past 5 seasons get?

1 year vet mins

So it means the Knicks couldn't get good guards with FA $ because they had too much money tied up in a wing that doesn't create?

I'd agree.

So your conclusion on why this organization has not had a good PG all these years is because of Anthony's salary?

- In 2011, they chose to amnesty Billups months after opting into his contract instead of opting out and using it on Amare down the line. How did they spend it? On a C.
- they had one near term first they could trade. How did they use it in 2014? On a PF/C.
- They had cap space in 2015 & 2016 & chose to spend it how? PGs? Nope. Guess who by far got the biggest contracts from the team? Centers.

But it was Anthony's salary that prevented them from getting a good PG?

I'd strongly disagree.

This organization has ignored the position for years & applied bandaid after bandaid on a gunshot wound.

Finally (FINALLY!!!) they decided to address it. Did Anthony's salary didn't stop them?

No. My conclusion about a PG would be that the organization didn't get a good one during Anthony's time here (minus a year of Kidd here, or Billups there, or only sort of fat Felton) is that the organization sucks.

The main error was tying up huge $ in a player that doesn't create for others. I don't care from what position. Basically, many NBA teams are fools like this, Knicks usually chief offender. Never max out a guy who doesn't collapse the defense and pass, but also score, both in an elite way. Unless, maybe, just maybe, it's an all world Center. Even then, I'm not sure. NBA has a structure where at any given time, there are like 5 guys who deserve all sorts of money because of how much better they make the team and another 15 guys who will be paid the same way, tie up way too much cap room for impact, and not be worth it, but because the teams are desperate for any sort of talent, need to put asses in seats, because the players know they have the money, those 15 guys get overpaid. Anthony was one of those 15 guys during his playing career.

Are those players really really good players? Yes. If, in that really really tiny window of opportunity, you clear cap room in such a way due to timing, rookie contracts etc, and a team is REALLY close to contending for a championship, then it's ok to overpay one of these guys. Sort of like OKC is absorbing Anthony's deal right now.

Cliff notes version:
Kobe, LeBron, Probably Greek Freak, Westbrook, Curry, Durant (maybe - I think he's sort of uber Anthony) Duncan (because size, defense, commitment to team play) - worth it

Anthony, Stoudamire - not worth it

[thebuzzardman]

It's good the Knicks don't have cap room right now - history shows the first moments they do, they overspend on guys not worth it:

Houston
Stoudamire
Anthony (twice)
Chandler
Noah
Hardaway Jr?

[Thugger HBC]

Westbrook is certainly worth that coin. It will be interesting to see how OKC handles the rest of the roster though.

[Greenie]

Crazy money. He'll be making 46 million at age 35. It was the only move for OKC though. City wouldn't be able to take losing Westbrook so soon after losing Durant and then Russ's historical season. They got no shot at a championship though. Still they'll be competitive and for most fans thats enough.

It should be enough for all fans. Only one team can win it all.

[Greenie]

It's good the Knicks don't have cap room right now - history shows the first moments they do, they overspend on guys not worth it:

Houston
Stoudamire
Anthony (twice)
Chandler
Noah
Hardaway Jr?

Anthony and Chandler were worth every penny. The problem was STAT eating up the cap preventing actual moves to get better at positions of need.

[Sprewell4Three]

Westbrook is Oklahoma City. Money well deserved. Hard worker!

[thebuzzardman]

It's good the Knicks don't have cap room right now - history shows the first moments they do, they overspend on guys not worth it:

Houston
Stoudamire
Anthony (twice)
Chandler
Noah
Hardaway Jr?

Anthony and Chandler were worth every penny. The problem was STAT eating up the cap preventing actual moves to get better at positions of need.

STAT was absolutely overpaid, by the year and by length of contract. Anthony was just overpaid just like it's a bad idea to tie up too much cap space in any player who needs to be built around instead of being more of a creator. What I'm saying is an exaggeration of the idea that only a handful in the NBA are worth maxing out all the way. Anthony would surely get the top dollar from most teams, but for only a few would it really be a good idea.

Chandler is a good "Spend the money on him as a final piece" Trouble is, even after they signed Chandler, they were still 3 pieces away. But I defended his signing a ton on here, as worth a shot because his contract ran out with Melo's first and Amare's.

That was the chance to rebuild that was missed. Instead Knicks made the mistake of resigning Anthony, trading for Bargs ( for some Euro version of Rasheed - a stretch 4/5 - ignoring the fact that Rasheed played defense and wasn't a giant vag) and other assorted bad moves (last one being Noah. Or THJr, if he doesn't pan out)

[thebuzzardman]

Westbrook is Oklahoma City. Money well deserved. Hard worker!

He's the kind of player you max out.

Presti is so good. He's got two really good players around him, but if they walk, instant cap space.

[Greenie]

It's good the Knicks don't have cap room right now - history shows the first moments they do, they overspend on guys not worth it:

Houston
Stoudamire
Anthony (twice)
Chandler
Noah
Hardaway Jr?

Anthony and Chandler were worth every penny. The problem was STAT eating up the cap preventing actual moves to get better at positions of need.

STAT was absolutely overpaid, by the year and by length of contract. Anthony was just overpaid just like it's a bad idea to tie up too much cap space in any player who needs to be built around instead of being more of a creator. What I'm saying is an exaggeration of the idea that only a handful in the NBA are worth maxing out all the way. Anthony would surely get the top dollar from most teams, but for only a few would it really be a good idea.

Chandler is a good "Spend the money on him as a final piece" Trouble is, even after they signed Chandler, they were still 3 pieces away. But I defended his signing a ton on here, as worth a shot because his contract ran out with Melo's first and Amare's.

That was the chance to rebuild that was missed. Instead Knicks made the mistake of resigning Anthony, trading for Bargs ( for some Euro version of Rasheed - a stretch 4/5 - ignoring the fact that Rasheed played defense and wasn't a giant vag) and other assorted bad moves (last one being Noah. Or THJr, if he doesn't pan out)

No. You have to pay the elite players. Whether you like it or not Melo was in fact that. The fact is that we didn't have a Sam Presti to build the team.

I will say that Phil should have let Melo go if he was going to break the team a part like he did. Bringing him back with a NTC was flat out dumb if you were purging the roster.

[thebuzzardman]

Anthony and Chandler were worth every penny. The problem was STAT eating up the cap preventing actual moves to get better at positions of need.

STAT was absolutely overpaid, by the year and by length of contract. Anthony was just overpaid just like it's a bad idea to tie up too much cap space in any player who needs to be built around instead of being more of a creator. What I'm saying is an exaggeration of the idea that only a handful in the NBA are worth maxing out all the way. Anthony would surely get the top dollar from most teams, but for only a few would it really be a good idea.

Chandler is a good "Spend the money on him as a final piece" Trouble is, even after they signed Chandler, they were still 3 pieces away. But I defended his signing a ton on here, as worth a shot because his contract ran out with Melo's first and Amare's.

That was the chance to rebuild that was missed. Instead Knicks made the mistake of resigning Anthony, trading for Bargs ( for some Euro version of Rasheed - a stretch 4/5 - ignoring the fact that Rasheed played defense and wasn't a giant vag) and other assorted bad moves (last one being Noah. Or THJr, if he doesn't pan out)

No. You have to pay the elite players. Whether you like it or not Melo was in fact that. The fact is that we didn't have a Sam Presti to build the team.

I will say that Phil should have let Melo go if he was going to break the team a part like he did. Bringing him back with a NTC was flat out dumb if you were purging the roster.

Other teams should pay the elite players. Not teams that aren't that good or when the players aren't truly elite. Save that money for the truly elite, or maintain flexibility. Knicks tied up their money in two non elite guys and basically have a couple of winning seasons over like, what, 7, to show for it? I bet they could have done about the same signing 3 10 million a year guys.

Phil resigning Melo was really dumb. Once Chandler, then Amare expired, that was the time for the reboot right there. I know a bunch of people here felt the same way.

[Im Coming Home]

When people that don't have cash talk **** about Melo's pockets...

when people get emotionally attached to hating on a player that doesn't even know they exist ...

FTFY

[Worst_to_First]

It's good the Knicks don't have cap room right now - history shows the first moments they do, they overspend on guys not worth it:

Houston
Stoudamire
Anthony (twice)
Chandler
Noah
Hardaway Jr?

Anthony and Chandler were worth every penny. The problem was STAT eating up the cap preventing actual moves to get better at positions of need.

The thought of potentially having CP3 play alongside Melo and Chandler (whom he had good chemistry in New Orleans) still pains me.

[dakomish23]

So it means the Knicks couldn't get good guards with FA $ because they had too much money tied up in a wing that doesn't create?

I'd agree.

So your conclusion on why this organization has not had a good PG all these years is because of Anthony's salary?

- In 2011, they chose to amnesty Billups months after opting into his contract instead of opting out and using it on Amare down the line. How did they spend it? On a C.
- they had one near term first they could trade. How did they use it in 2014? On a PF/C.
- They had cap space in 2015 & 2016 & chose to spend it how? PGs? Nope. Guess who by far got the biggest contracts from the team? Centers.

But it was Anthony's salary that prevented them from getting a good PG?

I'd strongly disagree.

This organization has ignored the position for years & applied bandaid after bandaid on a gunshot wound.

Finally (FINALLY!!!) they decided to address it. Did Anthony's salary didn't stop them?

No. My conclusion about a PG would be that the organization didn't get a good one during Anthony's time here (minus a year of Kidd here, or Billups there, or only sort of fat Felton) is that the organization sucks.

The main error was tying up huge $ in a player that doesn't create for others. I don't care from what position. Basically, many NBA teams are fools like this, Knicks usually chief offender. Never max out a guy who doesn't collapse the defense and pass, but also score, both in an elite way. Unless, maybe, just maybe, it's an all world Center. Even then, I'm not sure. NBA has a structure where at any given time, there are like 5 guys who deserve all sorts of money because of how much better they make the team and another 15 guys who will be paid the same way, tie up way too much cap room for impact, and not be worth it, but because the teams are desperate for any sort of talent, need to put asses in seats, because the players know they have the money, those 15 guys get overpaid. Anthony was one of those 15 guys during his playing career.

Are those players really really good players? Yes. If, in that really really tiny window of opportunity, you clear cap room in such a way due to timing, rookie contracts etc, and a team is REALLY close to contending for a championship, then it's ok to overpay one of these guys. Sort of like OKC is absorbing Anthony's deal right now.

Cliff notes version:
Kobe, LeBron, Probably Greek Freak, Westbrook, Curry, Durant (maybe - I think he's sort of uber Anthony) Duncan (because size, defense, commitment to team play) - worth it

Anthony, Stoudamire - not worth it

Another thing that led to our downfall was the constant change in FO managament. Walsh is who opted into Billups, Grunwald used the amnesty on him to go a different route. Mills was ready to bring in Lowry & PJax traded for Jose & DRose.

I won't argue Melo was ever a top 5 player. Back end of the top 10 from the end of 11-12 through 13-14 is the highest I would go. Maybe not even that. But I think the constant carrousel in FO folks only hurt any opportunity to prove that you could build a winner around him.

Sadly, if he had not been traded, this current iteration will be the most talented roster we'd ever have given him - & we backed into it by failing at creating a playoff roster.

[Oscirus]

It's good the Knicks don't have cap room right now - history shows the first moments they do, they overspend on guys not worth it:

Houston
Stoudamire
Anthony (twice)
Chandler
Noah
Hardaway Jr?

Anthony and Chandler were worth every penny. The problem was STAT eating up the cap preventing actual moves to get better at positions of need.

If Stat doesn't play way over his head that first year, we don't get Melo, no Melo, no Chandler. Whether people like to admit it or not we needed to give amare his money because nobody else was coming over here.

[SelbyCobra]

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20873182/paul-george-oklahoma-city-thunder-says-russell-westbrook-extension-absolutely-factor-decision-next-summer

"We've been on an unbelievable start right now, and for him to be committed here, it says a lot," George said. "Not only in us pairing together, but just knowing what type of dude Russ is and his values and his beliefs and him being committed to this organization says a lot. And I'm one person that's enjoying it here, so I think when that time comes, the decision will be easier to make for myself."

[Capn'O]

Another factor is RWB being willing to come back is that ownership had just opened up their pockets not just for him but to get him help. That's something they did NOT do for Durant. They ran on a shoestring for years and years.