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OT: USA Fails to qualify for world cup

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Re: RE: Re: OT: USA Fails to qualify for world cup 

Post#61 » by seren » Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:36 pm

John Murdoch wrote:All pretty valid point here nice to see intelligent soccer fans on here. I played alot of AYSO as a kid and the best player on all of my teams was always a spanish dude from somewhere else . We as americans love variety so focusing on one sport isnt so cut and dry unless ur physically built to dominate that sport (7fter bball, super small jockey etc..) the youth academies axcell because the kids basically live on campus and receive an education along with elite traning but how would we be able to bypass the Collegiate level ? Somene needs to be givent the green light to reconstruct the entire farming system because like others have stated we still have the best recources and athletism to be a formidable team its just the infrastructure isnt there alot how like basketball in brazil or mexico is ..just not enough public interest to bother developing it.

It is interesting. My son is playing AYSO too and it seems like in our area at least at his age range ie 7 year olds, soccer is the most popular sport. More than half of his classmates are playing AYSO.

To me AYSO is a great starting point but without professional coaches, I don't see how these kids can take the next step.

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Re: OT: USA Fails to qualify for world cup 

Post#62 » by Knicksfan1992 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:53 pm

MaseInYourFace wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:
ForzaMetro wrote:Gulati and Arena should be fired before midnight and anyone 28-29 or older should be exiled. Need new leadership and a commitment to build through young players. 2022 is a long ways away. Ugh.

Arena should never have been brought back

he was always terrible

conservative, unimaginative, uninspired play basically built around counter attacking and trying to steal a run against play


Klinsman should never have been let go. he was excellent for USA soccer

terrible


I would have liked him to remain in some capacity overseeing the development of national team but not necessarily as a manager. He was right on the money about what USA needs to improve but as a manager in terms of in-game he was spotty.


Yes I agree whole heartedly. Klinsmann was very stubborn too which does not help when you're not producing consistently good results which by no means he was. However, I believe he was slightly vindicated with how Arena performed with his tactics and line up calls. US Soccer got pissed that JK held our players to a higher standard and preferred European based players to MLS ones and made that known publicly. So, they call in a MLS croney and well.. you see what happened. I'm not chitting on MLS, but for international play it just doesn't have the depth of quality talent for us to consistently fill our roster with players from the league and also compete at the level we desire to compete at (or at least I think the level we desire to).

I wouldn't actually mind bringing him back for a 2nd go around with full control again. I can live with shotty in game managing as long as we are developing for the future. I mean let's face it if you look at our player pool from the ages of 23-28 there's just not much quality there... We're going to have to rely on young guys and finding talent. I think Klinsmann is the man best suited for that job amongst people who know US Soccer while having a high international pedigree. It will never happen thought. To me, hiring a top class world manager is putting a band aid on a wound that needs stitches. We need someone who will care about US Soccer for the long term not about making it out of the group stage of the next world cup and securing a 2nd contract.
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Re: OT: USA Fails to qualify for world cup 

Post#63 » by NoLayupRule » Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:53 pm

for whatever its worth I just learned Italy and the Netherlands both failed to qualify
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Re: OT: USA Fails to qualify for world cup 

Post#64 » by ForzaMetro » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:37 pm

NoLayupRule wrote:for whatever its worth I just learned Italy and the Netherlands both failed to qualify


Netherlands are out (Chile too)

Italy are still alive...will play a two-legged playoff against another UEFA team to get in
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Re: OT: USA Fails to qualify for world cup 

Post#65 » by NoLayupRule » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:50 pm

ForzaMetro wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:for whatever its worth I just learned Italy and the Netherlands both failed to qualify


Netherlands are out (Chile too)

Italy are still alive...will play a two-legged playoff against another UEFA team to get in

oh good

sure they won't advance far but its not the world cup to me without Italy in it
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Re: OT: USA Fails to qualify for world cup 

Post#66 » by j4remi » Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:13 pm

Knicksfan1992 wrote:Yes I agree whole heartedly. Klinsmann was very stubborn too which does not help when you're not producing consistently good results which by no means he was. However, I believe he was slightly vindicated with how Arena performed with his tactics and line up calls. US Soccer got pissed that JK held our players to a higher standard and preferred European based players to MLS ones and made that known publicly. So, they call in a MLS croney and well.. you see what happened. I'm not chitting on MLS, but for international play it just doesn't have the depth of quality talent for us to consistently fill our roster with players from the league and also compete at the level we desire to compete at (or at least I think the level we desire to).

I wouldn't actually mind bringing him back for a 2nd go around with full control again. I can live with shotty in game managing as long as we are developing for the future. I mean let's face it if you look at our player pool from the ages of 23-28 there's just not much quality there... We're going to have to rely on young guys and finding talent. I think Klinsmann is the man best suited for that job amongst people who know US Soccer while having a high international pedigree. It will never happen thought. To me, hiring a top class world manager is putting a band aid on a wound that needs stitches. We need someone who will care about US Soccer for the long term not about making it out of the group stage of the next world cup and securing a 2nd contract.


Klinsmann toward the end blew it though. He was constantly playing guys out of position and that really throws a player's development. Graham Zusi shouldn't be a left back one day and a midfielder the next. Klinsmann did that sort of thing with a bunch of guys, granted the back line was a mess and also dealt with injuries but he needed to pick his guys and develop them. I'd like US soccer to bring in another international coach and personality who can help convince multi-nationals to choose US soccer and to have broader perspective, Klinsmann was big on the youth push which is paying dividends but as far as his tactics and the results...there were a lot of inexplicable decisions followed by a lot of bad results.
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Re: OT: USA Fails to qualify for world cup 

Post#67 » by Dr. Detfink » Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:19 pm

North Americans are just not good with our feet but we are with our hands! The US Rugby team is legit. When I was in South Africa last April-May, South Africans who love their rugby couldn't stop talking to be about OUR Rugby team. Get on board that train.
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Re: OT: USA Fails to qualify for world cup 

Post#68 » by Shemy » Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:49 pm

Until the whole youth system gets revamped then more players need to apply their trade in Europe at youth and senior level , hell even better they do so in South America and Mexico..MLS sucks klinnsman was right too bad he was **** tactically, as a "technical director" the guy had the right ideas still can't believe these fools rehired Bruce arena such a backwards ass move that pretty much sums up the thinking of the suits dealing with US Soccer
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Re: OT: USA Fails to qualify for world cup 

Post#69 » by King of Canada » Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:52 pm

Shemy wrote:Until the whole youth system gets revamped then more players need to apply their trade in Europe at youth and senior level , hell even better they do so in South America and Mexico..MLS sucks klinnsman was right


With American football basically on the verge of falling apart due to a high % of player with brain injuries, parents are no longer going to sign their kids up. You'll see soccer get a big spike in the coming generation because of it.
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Re: OT: USA Fails to qualify for world cup 

Post#70 » by Knicksfan1992 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:27 pm

j4remi wrote:
Knicksfan1992 wrote:Yes I agree whole heartedly. Klinsmann was very stubborn too which does not help when you're not producing consistently good results which by no means he was. However, I believe he was slightly vindicated with how Arena performed with his tactics and line up calls. US Soccer got pissed that JK held our players to a higher standard and preferred European based players to MLS ones and made that known publicly. So, they call in a MLS croney and well.. you see what happened. I'm not chitting on MLS, but for international play it just doesn't have the depth of quality talent for us to consistently fill our roster with players from the league and also compete at the level we desire to compete at (or at least I think the level we desire to).

I wouldn't actually mind bringing him back for a 2nd go around with full control again. I can live with shotty in game managing as long as we are developing for the future. I mean let's face it if you look at our player pool from the ages of 23-28 there's just not much quality there... We're going to have to rely on young guys and finding talent. I think Klinsmann is the man best suited for that job amongst people who know US Soccer while having a high international pedigree. It will never happen thought. To me, hiring a top class world manager is putting a band aid on a wound that needs stitches. We need someone who will care about US Soccer for the long term not about making it out of the group stage of the next world cup and securing a 2nd contract.


Klinsmann toward the end blew it though. He was constantly playing guys out of position and that really throws a player's development. Graham Zusi shouldn't be a left back one day and a midfielder the next. Klinsmann did that sort of thing with a bunch of guys, granted the back line was a mess and also dealt with injuries but he needed to pick his guys and develop them. I'd like US soccer to bring in another international coach and personality who can help convince multi-nationals to choose US soccer and to have broader perspective, Klinsmann was big on the youth push which is paying dividends but as far as his tactics and the results...there were a lot of inexplicable decisions followed by a lot of bad results.


I agree. I don't think Klinsmann was a great game manager at all. He alienated guys, played guys in unfamiliar positions, and ultimately got a mixed bag of results. The only thing I get nervous about when looking at outside candidates and something that gets overlooked is just how complex and nuanced the US soccer system is and nuanced MLS is. As much as I feel like we should be avoiding MLS players, it's inevitable that some are going to be on the roster, we don't have the depth of talent over in Europe and around the world to field our best 22 just from over there. An outside manager is going to take time to understand how MLS being on a different schedule than everyone else effects the national team because it does. That's why I loved Klinsmann because he had spent years here studying US Soccer and understanding where it was at before taking the job.

I understand the want for a higher profile manager, but I think there are some key things you need to sort out with whomever it is. Do they care about the long term health of the national team? Can they not only guide the senior guys to victory, but also institute change in the way we approach matches tactically and how we approach youth development? Truly how many foreign guys are really going to care about these things? I think US Soccer needs to be honest with itself and understand that yes hiring a guy like Sven Goran Eriksson for example may yield immediate improvements, but at what benefit to the long term health of US soccer? Look, to me, we're still at the stage where qualifying for the world cup has got to be the main goal. Anything on top of that is gravy. That's just where our talent pool is right now and will be for the foreseeable future. Truthfuly any manager worth his salt should be able to get us there. I don't think you need to hire a Fabio Capello or a mercenary like that to get us there.

I want a guy with a vision for 10-25 years down the line that understands where we are now and can help us reach our current potential, but also knows what it's going to take to eventually become a world power. As flawed as Klinsmann was and I agree with you he was majorly flawed, he had a vision and for the first time in a long time US Soccer had a future under him. We threw that away for a short sighted attempt to just qualify... As hard as it is to say it given what just happened, I think we need to prioritize 2026 and 2030 over just getting through qualification in 2022 or else you just start the same cycle of mediocrity again.

Also it might be a harsh reality for some, but with the way our pool is set up, it's a real possibility we miss out on 2022 as well. The 23-28 age group is devoid of quality talent and they couldn't qualify for the Olympics out of the same region. It's going to be an uphill battle...
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Re: OT: USA Fails to qualify for world cup 

Post#71 » by MaseInYourFace » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:51 pm

NoLayupRule wrote:for whatever its worth I just learned Italy and the Netherlands both failed to qualify


Wow is that so?! Those are two powerhouses.
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Re: OT: USA Fails to qualify for world cup 

Post#72 » by MaseInYourFace » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:58 pm

Knicksfan1992 wrote:
j4remi wrote:
Knicksfan1992 wrote:Yes I agree whole heartedly. Klinsmann was very stubborn too which does not help when you're not producing consistently good results which by no means he was. However, I believe he was slightly vindicated with how Arena performed with his tactics and line up calls. US Soccer got pissed that JK held our players to a higher standard and preferred European based players to MLS ones and made that known publicly. So, they call in a MLS croney and well.. you see what happened. I'm not chitting on MLS, but for international play it just doesn't have the depth of quality talent for us to consistently fill our roster with players from the league and also compete at the level we desire to compete at (or at least I think the level we desire to).

I wouldn't actually mind bringing him back for a 2nd go around with full control again. I can live with shotty in game managing as long as we are developing for the future. I mean let's face it if you look at our player pool from the ages of 23-28 there's just not much quality there... We're going to have to rely on young guys and finding talent. I think Klinsmann is the man best suited for that job amongst people who know US Soccer while having a high international pedigree. It will never happen thought. To me, hiring a top class world manager is putting a band aid on a wound that needs stitches. We need someone who will care about US Soccer for the long term not about making it out of the group stage of the next world cup and securing a 2nd contract.


Klinsmann toward the end blew it though. He was constantly playing guys out of position and that really throws a player's development. Graham Zusi shouldn't be a left back one day and a midfielder the next. Klinsmann did that sort of thing with a bunch of guys, granted the back line was a mess and also dealt with injuries but he needed to pick his guys and develop them. I'd like US soccer to bring in another international coach and personality who can help convince multi-nationals to choose US soccer and to have broader perspective, Klinsmann was big on the youth push which is paying dividends but as far as his tactics and the results...there were a lot of inexplicable decisions followed by a lot of bad results.


I agree. I don't think Klinsmann was a great game manager at all. He alienated guys, played guys in unfamiliar positions, and ultimately got a mixed bag of results. The only thing I get nervous about when looking at outside candidates and something that gets overlooked is just how complex and nuanced the US soccer system is and nuanced MLS is. As much as I feel like we should be avoiding MLS players, it's inevitable that some are going to be on the roster, we don't have the depth of talent over in Europe and around the world to field our best 22 just from over there. An outside manager is going to take time to understand how MLS being on a different schedule than everyone else effects the national team because it does. That's why I loved Klinsmann because he had spent years here studying US Soccer and understanding where it was at before taking the job.

I understand the want for a higher profile manager, but I think there are some key things you need to sort out with whomever it is. Do they care about the long term health of the national team? Can they not only guide the senior guys to victory, but also institute change in the way we approach matches tactically and how we approach youth development? Truly how many foreign guys are really going to care about these things? I think US Soccer needs to be honest with itself and understand that yes hiring a guy like Sven Goran Eriksson for example may yield immediate improvements, but at what benefit to the long term health of US soccer? Look, to me, we're still at the stage where qualifying for the world cup has got to be the main goal. Anything on top of that is gravy. That's just where our talent pool is right now and will be for the foreseeable future. Truthfuly any manager worth his salt should be able to get us there. I don't think you need to hire a Fabio Capello or a mercenary like that to get us there.

I want a guy with a vision for 10-25 years down the line that understands where we are now and can help us reach our current potential, but also knows what it's going to take to eventually become a world power. As flawed as Klinsmann was and I agree with you he was majorly flawed, he had a vision and for the first time in a long time US Soccer had a future under him. We threw that away for a short sighted attempt to just qualify... As hard as it is to say it given what just happened, I think we need to prioritize 2026 and 2030 over just getting through qualification in 2022 or else you just start the same cycle of mediocrity again.

Also it might be a harsh reality for some, but with the way our pool is set up, it's a real possibility we miss out on 2022 as well. The 23-28 age group is devoid of quality talent and they couldn't qualify for the Olympics out of the same region. It's going to be an uphill battle...


I'm thinking who will be the obvious headliners on the next generation of teams and it's Brooks, Yedlin, Wood, and Pulisic. After that it gets thin quick. You have to hope guys like Kellyn Acosta can develop.
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Re: OT: USA Fails to qualify for world cup 

Post#73 » by JohnWillow » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:59 pm

MaseInYourFace wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:for whatever its worth I just learned Italy and the Netherlands both failed to qualify


Wow is that so?! Those are two powerhouses.

Netherland has been dissapointing since 2014 world cup, they did not even qualify for European championship last summer.
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Re: OT: USA Fails to qualify for world cup 

Post#74 » by MaseInYourFace » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:01 pm

A new era or error?
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Re: OT: USA Fails to qualify for world cup 

Post#75 » by MaseInYourFace » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:10 pm

JohnWillow wrote:
MaseInYourFace wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:for whatever its worth I just learned Italy and the Netherlands both failed to qualify


Wow is that so?! Those are two powerhouses.

Netherland has been dissapointing since 2014 world cup, they did not even qualify for European championship last summer.


Robben is one of my all-time favorite players. Bummer.
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Re: OT: USA Fails to qualify for world cup 

Post#76 » by NYKMentality85 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:12 pm

I've never followed soccer but this is heartbreaking. Every World Cup i get crazy excited to watch team U.S.A. Win or lose i catch World Cup fever every 4 years. This **** sucks looks like i couldn't care less about this up coming soccer tournament. America's not playing? I won't be watching and that is upsetting.
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Re: OT: USA Fails to qualify for world cup 

Post#77 » by JohnWillow » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:16 pm

MaseInYourFace wrote:
JohnWillow wrote:
MaseInYourFace wrote:
Wow is that so?! Those are two powerhouses.

Netherland has been dissapointing since 2014 world cup, they did not even qualify for European championship last summer.


Robben is one of my all-time favorite players. Bummer.

They have the talent, even tho they are old, but on the otheside they have like the one of the best leagues in the europe, because of the young talent what they have there, I could go deeper on this topic, because I cover European soccer for one website, but I'm too drunk right now lmao

Robben retired from NT too after the game vs Sweden.
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Re: OT: USA Fails to qualify for world cup 

Post#78 » by don't panac » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:00 pm

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Re: OT: USA Fails to qualify for world cup 

Post#79 » by don't panac » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:08 pm

Shemy wrote:Until the whole youth system gets revamped then more players need to apply their trade in Europe at youth and senior level , hell even better they do so in South America and Mexico..


it needs to start with the very young kids (10 yo) and the dumping of the horrendous pay-to-play system.
Also, introducing freely usable soccer/futsal pitches parks, especially in inner city parks and playgrounds would go a great distance.
this is the only place in the world where kids do not play pick-up games.

a good article on our youth 'system' (or lack thereof):
http://www.goal.com/en/news/how-many-howards-or-dempseys-are-the-us-losing-due-to-pay-to/4c10dtk0u17c16q7nsa1g3x4y

anywhere in the world, in almost every sport, the bulk of good athletes come from the poor.
Non-poor kids have other, more reliable opportunities to make it in life (basically, going to school), and most middle/upper class parents would rather their kids study and get a 'good job', if possible, rather than 'gamble' their kids' life on professional sports as means of success (an exceedingly rare occurrence). There are exceptions of course (especially kids of successful athletes, or obviously super-talented kids), but are few.
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Re: RE: Re: OT: USA Fails to qualify for world cup 

Post#80 » by seren » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:38 pm

don't panac wrote:
Shemy wrote:Until the whole youth system gets revamped then more players need to apply their trade in Europe at youth and senior level , hell even better they do so in South America and Mexico..


it needs to start with the very young kids (10 yo) and the dumping of the horrendous pay-to-play system.
Also, introducing freely usable soccer/futsal pitches parks, especially in inner city parks and playgrounds would go a great distance.
this is the only place in the world where kids do not play pick-up games.

a good article on our youth 'system' (or lack thereof):
http://www.goal.com/en/news/how-many-howards-or-dempseys-are-the-us-losing-due-to-pay-to/4c10dtk0u17c16q7nsa1g3x4y

anywhere in the world, in almost every sport, the bulk of good athletes come from the poor.
Non-poor kids have other, more reliable opportunities to make it in life (basically, going to school), and most middle/upper class parents would rather their kids study and get a 'good job', if possible, rather than 'gamble' their kids' life on professional sports as means of success (an exceedingly rare occurrence). There are exceptions of course (especially kids of successful athletes, or obviously super-talented kids), but are few.

Money has to come from somewhere though. Someone has to pay those coaches' salaries. If MLS was super wealthy, the money would trickle down similar to basketball.

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