wizards @ knicks game thread 7:30 msg

[Wolfgang630]

At least we're supposed to be terrible, poor Pelicans.

Their organization isn't good.

[br7knicks]

Not even JVG could make this squad a good defensive team. Don't have those players yet.

Although I wasn't happy with them, I didn't completely hate the Lee and Noah signings at first. I was hoping they'd come in and change the **** culture of the lazy defense, me-first mentality we've been subjected to the last few years.

Horny needs to go first. It starts there

[aq_ua]

I thought this was the perfect preseason. It demonstrated everything that I was expecting from a squad hastily put together by "Wind" Mills and Scott "Howdy Doody" Perry.

We all expected the Knicks to be atrocious on defense. I mean, it's a Jeff Hornacek team.

Refreshingly, the Knicks surprised me by not being ANY better on offense despite, finally getting a point guard in Ramon Sessions, a big man to help PED abuser Joakim Noah, and a down on his luck veteran in Beasley.

Problem is, the Knicks are stuck with this squad for a couple seasons unless Dolan is forced to move another generation of young players for an overpriced again superstar.

If you were expecting the offense to be better with a bunch of young guys and a few hastily thrown together journeymen, you were honestly probably expecting too much. I do think we'll look meaningfully better on offense as the season progresses and we start finding rythym. Our defense is going to be awful all the way through - no real reason to be hopeful there.

I expect Lee, Thomas and KO or Kanter to be gone by next season, so not too concerned about being stuck with our existing roster semi-permanently.

[br7knicks]

I thought this was the perfect preseason. It demonstrated everything that I was expecting from a squad hastily put together by "Wind" Mills and Scott "Howdy Doody" Perry.

We all expected the Knicks to be atrocious on defense. I mean, it's a Jeff Hornacek team.

Refreshingly, the Knicks surprised me by not being ANY better on offense despite, finally getting a point guard in Ramon Sessions, a big man to help PED abuser Joakim Noah, and a down on his luck veteran in Beasley.

Problem is, the Knicks are stuck with this squad for a couple seasons unless Dolan is forced to move another generation of young players for an overpriced again superstar.

Horny needs to go and let the young guys learn from a defensive coach that will hold them accountable.

[Lcny]

I just want those pregame floor animations to go away. They are never getting to the playoffs until they create a playoff atmosphere and that includes the entire presentation.

[Dr. Detfink]

Horny needs to go and let the young guys learn from a defensive coach that will hold them accountable.

Do the Knicks even want a defensive minded coach?

They passed on Thibs twice, though the second time was more Phil's doing.

Even more confusing (if that's even possible), the Knicks fire Phil BUT they keep a coach who is the poor man's Mike D'Antoni and was brought in by Phil to purely to say, "Yes."

This is what's ahead...

Let Phil Jackson draft Frank Ntilikina then fire him...

Mills signs Tim Hardaway Jr to a monster contract before trading Melo...

Again, this half way through nonsense.

[newyorker4ever]

Read on Twitter

The new powers that be have stressed that they want a few characteristics from the rebuilding Knicks moving forward.

The folks that run this franchise want a young team that plays smart and hard, and one that brings it defensively. The Knicks have few players that fit that description. One is injured first-round pick Frank Ntilikina. Another is their second-round pick, Damyean Dotson.

Dotson has to play.

The Knicks chose him with the 44th pick. He was only available because of a sexual assault accusation while he attended the University of Oregon. Dotson averaged 17 points per game during his final year at the University of Houston and shot 44 percent from 3-point range. He also averaged nearly seven rebounds per game and played excellent defense.

Dotson has shown those same kind of skills so far in the preseason with the Knicks. He is the perfect fit as a modern-day “3 and D” wing that helps teams win games. In his limited minutes, Dotson hasn’t made the type of low-IQ mistakes that rookies tend to make. He could be a steal of a pick if the Knicks can find somewhere to play him.

Much like the logjam they have at center, the Knicks also have one at the wing position. At 6-foot-5 and 210 pounds, Dotson is nearly the same size as Tim Hardaway, Jr. and Courtney Lee. If the Knicks played one of those guys at shooting guard and the other at small forward, they might find time for Dotson off the bench, but that doesn’t seem to be the plan.

Doug McDermott is going to take minutes at small forward. Lance Thomas will take minutes at both small and power forward. Ron Baker might take minutes at shooting guard. Michael Beasley has played small forward in the past. Head coach Jeff Hornacek stated earlier in the week that he will likely have to play bigger players at small forward depending on the opponent.

At point guard, Ntilikina has missed a lot of the preseason, but veterans Jarret Jack and Ramon Sessions are nothing more than placeholders. Ntilikina defends, passes, and is the type of young player that should be able to be effective early in his career. He needs to play, even if it means a lot of mistakes and the Knicks losing a lot early in the season.

The Knicks have these types of decisions to make all across the roster. They are going to have to sit down veterans or move them to give time to younger players. Lee, Kyle O’Quinn, Joakim Noah, and Thomas are all in that category. Lee and Thomas are both good players that can help win games, but is that more important than developing younger players that might able to do just as well if given the chance to improve?

The answer to that question should be a resounding no, but it is a tough sell for a coach to make those types of moves at the start of the season. To keep the team engaged, Hornacek has to play the guys the players know will give them the best chance to win. If he doesn’t, the players might check out early in the season and that type of a stuff more often than not gets a coach fired.

The best thing the Knicks can do is shop veterans like Lee, Thomas and O’Quinn, and try to trade them for some kind of useful future asset. Until these guys are off the team, especially Lee and Thomas, they are going to have to play and take minutes away from someone like Dotson.

In turn, Dotson won’t develop and the Knicks might win a couple more games, which could cost them a better draft pick. Similarly, despite missing most of the preseason Sessions and Jack shouldn’t take minutes away from Ntilikina.

Lee and Thomas, especially, should be able to bring some kind of significant return. Guys like Noah, McDermott, Sessions, Jack and O’Quinn will just have to get benched by Hornacek at some point.

It will be a tough path for Hornacek and the front office to navigate this season, but they have to do what is best for the future. The Knicks are going to lose a lot, but they need to lose with a purpose. The youth on this roster must be the priority, even if it means more losses. It might just take some time to get there.

Schmeelk seems to make it an either/or situation when the fact is that we can work in the young players and probably fairly quickly. But Frank and Dotson don't have to be in the starting rotation next Thursday and, if they aren't, the sky won't fall.

Noah's not even going to play the first 12 games bc of the suspension. When he does come back, he'll eventually see 15 mpg. He'll have to play if we have any shot of getting that medical exemption or whatever the fck it's called. So that's really not any issue. If we can't get rid of him on a medical, then - hopefully sooner than later - he'll just sit the bench.

Frank, Dotson, McD and Enes Hernangomez will all see plenty of time. Not to worry.

I love hearing from fans that use common sense. The young guys don't have to start the season getting big minutes cause it's a long season and they'll all get plenty of minutes as long as they deserve them by playing well in the minimal minutes they will get with the 2nd unit. I liked the article but why is he putting guys like KOQ and McDermott with the vets and saying they don't need to play? They're both young guys that can help this team. I think McDermott is being under rated by many because he's never really got a good shot at playing time especially in OKC last year and think he might even open the season as our starting SF and i think KOQ is gonna be missed if and probably when we do trade him. He's a good big off the bench with his passing, blocking shots and he's got decent range on his shot. There's no bigger Dotson fan then me and that kid is gonna get playing time for sure and will most likely earn more as the season goes on.

[br7knicks]

Horny needs to go and let the young guys learn from a defensive coach that will hold them accountable.

Do the Knicks even want a defensive minded coach?

They passed on Thibs twice, though the second time was more Phil's doing.

Even more confusing (if that's even possible), the Knicks fire Phil BUT they keep a coach who is the poor man's Mike D'Antoni and was brought in by Phil to purely to say, "Yes."

This is what's ahead...

Let Phil Jackson draft Frank Ntilikina then fire him...

Mills signs Tim Hardaway Jr to a monster contract before trading Melo...

Again, this half way through nonsense.

they should want a defensive-minded coach, but that means they will probably take KP, frank, willy, and dotson, and trade them and a few first round picks for harden when his contract expires and he demands a bigger contract before moving

but keeping rambis and jeff are the two confusing things for me as well. he was brought him by phil specifically. he should have been gone with him. maybe the organization wanted stability in a familiar coach. but i don't get it.

THjr i don't get either. just hope he delivers on his promise to be better offensively and defensively

[newyorker4ever]

FWIW I thought we looked much better defensively tonight which isn't saying much.

Some notes.

Kuz is trash and isn't an NBA player. One of the more overrated guys on this board. About all he does well is shoot. He's decent as a cutter but he has zero vision and his d is Kanter level on the wing. He's a 3rd string option and maybe we can hoodwink a contender in giving us a 2nd.

Beasley didn't have a great game but the signs are there that he's going to be productive. He still makes some excellent passes in tight situations and when he gets a head of steam to the rim he's really good. I would start him at the 4.

Wily is unimpressive. I'm willing to give him a longer leash but he looked uncomfortable guarding on the perimeter and his touch is off. I would say he's rusty but he had euro league to get in a rythymn. He should be further along at this point.

Baker is great defensively. Absolutely fantastic on that end and can surprise with his passing as he showed on that backdoor 1 hand pass to McD. It'll be interesting to see him and Frank play together. Im nervous hes lost confidence in his jumper. He looks to have developed a slight hitch. Something to monitor going forward.

THJ is going to blossom offensively this year and he showed some flashes of good D but he still gets caught napping backdoor a ton. His arsenal has really expanded offensively though. There's nothing he can't do. He dropped a pocket pass on pick and roll. Hit pull ups off of screens. Attacked closeouts and finished at the rim like he usually does. His handle is so much tighter now it's insane and it's really opened up his game. Have a feeling he averages more than KP this year which isn't a bad thing. I think he has a much more natural scoring touch than KP does.

Nothing else really stood out to me as good or bad except McD doing McD things

Kuz isn't trash lol

It's preseason, the lineups are in flux, and the talent on the court is trash atm. This is the worst thing for a good role player like kuz. Players like kuz can and will earn their paycheck on a well coached team with an identity.

Willy is a big dude and a true 5. of course he's uncomfortable guarding on the perimeter lol. anybody expecting him to become the next marc gasol is delusional. He can put the ball in the hoop, makes some good passes, but that's about it yeah. He is what he is.

Beasley still looks like he's gonna be trash. all he can do is score inefficiently. wouldnt dream of starting him at the 4 lol

agreed with hardaway

I'm still trying to figure out how anyone can predict what any of the guys we have can and will do after watching them play in 5 preseason games with minimal minutes for most of them. You guys need to show at least a little patience cause you're gonna need it. We have no idea what we have as of now since we haven't even played one single meaningful game yet. It will take at least a quarter of the season before we know just what we have with some of these guys.

[BKlutch]

Let's not get carried away with playing just kids from game 1. First, they need to earn it, not have it handed to them on a silver platter. Two, I think it's important to have veterans on the team to help teach them the game on and off the court, especially in NYC. Let them get time as they earn it.

Couldn't agree more. Bring in vets to make the young guys hungry

Eventually I gotta believe that some combination of KOQ, LFT and Lee will be trade this season.


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Any combination of them as long as it includes 3 of them.

[Capn'O]

Some of y'all act like you never saw a woman before. Lance girl got a fatty but nowadays what female doesn't? All it takes is a waist-trainer and a trip to D.R.

Besides, her frame is nice but her face look old. Not schitting on her or nothing but the last few days dudes are stopping videos at time marks and getting nutty. She cool but relax my dudes.

So you're saying I'm a sucker for a girl with a big fish?

Spoiler:

She looks much better in the fish pic. The first one, I don't disagree.

Fish pic? I am confused...

That fish is HUGE!

Also, I'm a little concerned about another post you made. You haven't come around to the Ironing Board, have you

[br7knicks]

So you're saying I'm a sucker for a girl with a big fish?

Spoiler:

She looks much better in the fish pic. The first one, I don't disagree.

Fish pic? I am confused...

That fish is HUGE!

Also, I'm a little concerned about another post you made. You haven't come around to the Ironing Board, have you

meh, too skinny for me

[god shammgod]

well isn't that great.

Read on Twitter

i see you....i raise you

Read on Twitter

that's right....the Israeli team played better defense

And the Guangzhou Long-Lions played better offense then us

you know, i didn't even notice that......they might beat us in a 7 game series

[Pharmcat]

so much for melo being the problem

[thebuzzardman]

so much for melo being the problem

True. I wish he could have stayed and pounded the ball and put up 25 shots a game as the Knicks struggled to a 28 win season.

[Jimmit79]

It wasn't that melo was the only problem he refused to give up shots for KP and allow him to lead the team not to mention the drama of NY media coming up with conspiracy theory of him and phil and all of his previous coaches. Knicks suck with or without melo anyway it's not like they were relevant last 3 years.

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[Mecca]

Melo is better without us and we're better without Melo why don't people see this?

Melo is best off ball at this current juncture in his career.

We had no use for Melo on a rebuilding team where he wanted to still be 25 year old Melo. In OKC, he knows his role.

[jvsimonetti0514]

THJR has look great offensively this preseason, he's really developed as a scorer. He went toe to toe with Beal last night. I would love to see him pass out of PNR more. If he adds that look out. He's still not a great defender but isn't the horror show he was in his first stint here. I also don't think it's a coincidence we play better defense with playing Beasley at the 4. We're never going to be able to defend with two centers out there. Where did little Marc Gasol go? Billy looks like how he did at the beginning of last season. Is it possible he lost too much weight?

[Jimmit79]

Yea I don't know why Knicks play two bigs it's insane and makes me wonder if they're preparing for tank.

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[Knicksfan1992]

FWIW I thought we looked much better defensively tonight which isn't saying much.

Some notes.

Kuz is trash and isn't an NBA player. One of the more overrated guys on this board. About all he does well is shoot. He's decent as a cutter but he has zero vision and his d is Kanter level on the wing. He's a 3rd string option and maybe we can hoodwink a contender in giving us a 2nd.

Beasley didn't have a great game but the signs are there that he's going to be productive. He still makes some excellent passes in tight situations and when he gets a head of steam to the rim he's really good. I would start him at the 4.

Wily is unimpressive. I'm willing to give him a longer leash but he looked uncomfortable guarding on the perimeter and his touch is off. I would say he's rusty but he had euro league to get in a rythymn. He should be further along at this point.

Baker is great defensively. Absolutely fantastic on that end and can surprise with his passing as he showed on that backdoor 1 hand pass to McD. It'll be interesting to see him and Frank play together. Im nervous hes lost confidence in his jumper. He looks to have developed a slight hitch. Something to monitor going forward.

THJ is going to blossom offensively this year and he showed some flashes of good D but he still gets caught napping backdoor a ton. His arsenal has really expanded offensively though. There's nothing he can't do. He dropped a pocket pass on pick and roll. Hit pull ups off of screens. Attacked closeouts and finished at the rim like he usually does. His handle is so much tighter now it's insane and it's really opened up his game. Have a feeling he averages more than KP this year which isn't a bad thing. I think he has a much more natural scoring touch than KP does.

Nothing else really stood out to me as good or bad except McD doing McD things

Kuz isn't trash lol

It's preseason, the lineups are in flux, and the talent on the court is trash atm. This is the worst thing for a good role player like kuz. Players like kuz can and will earn their paycheck on a well coached team with an identity.

Willy is a big dude and a true 5. of course he's uncomfortable guarding on the perimeter lol. anybody expecting him to become the next marc gasol is delusional. He can put the ball in the hoop, makes some good passes, but that's about it yeah. He is what he is.

Beasley still looks like he's gonna be trash. all he can do is score inefficiently. wouldnt dream of starting him at the 4 lol

agreed with hardaway

I'm still trying to figure out how anyone can predict what any of the guys we have can and will do after watching them play in 5 preseason games with minimal minutes for most of them. You guys need to show at least a little patience cause you're gonna need it. We have no idea what we have as of now since we haven't even played one single meaningful game yet. It will take at least a quarter of the season before we know just what we have with some of these guys.

I'm not predicting anything based off of 5 pre season games. I've watched Kuz for a year. He's garbage. Can't defend, has a basic handle and his shot is streaky.

You can't just throw scouting out the window because it's pre season. When people do well everyone wants to crown them the next big thing in pre season and when they do bad people want to just say oh it's preseason it doesn't matter. That works with some established players sure. But a lot of our guys are playing in roles that they're not used to so there is a ton to take away from pre season this year.

What I saw from Hardaway is a future offensive star. His arsenal has expanded and he will easily be our number 1 option going forward. Nearly unstoppable when he gets going. He has to work on his shot iq, but when he settles in this year i wouldn't be surprised to see 20/3/3 on 44/36/80 splits.

Beasley showed flashes of great court vision, attentive defense, and great rebounding instincts in major minutes. Color me intrigued.

McDermott is showing me he's a better defender than given credit for. Not really impactful but just solid and tries on that end.

Bakers defense alone is worth his contract. Absolutely hounding on that end and relentless effort. Ball handlers dont get by one screen easily when he guards them. Not to mention our best off ball perimeter defender as well. Reminds me of Delly. Should be getting 20-25 minutes a night ans 10 of those should be with Frank on the floor.

Dotson shot has been slightly erratic but when he's left open it looks money. Little over eager defensively but I'd rather that than being passive like a Kuz is for example. His off ball defense needs a lot of clean up.