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Knicks Starting 5

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Re: Knicks Starting 5 

Post#41 » by HarthorneWingo » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:51 am

DaKnicksAreBack wrote:
2010 wrote:
DaKnicksAreBack wrote:It doesn’t matter. The starting lineup isn’t set in stone. But I told everyone kanter is better than Willy


I still don't view Kanter as better than Willy. I just think they are positioning Kanter to pump up his trade value hoping someone bites.


They’re basically the same player defensively, but kanter is more explosive and dynamic off the block.


And Gomez is a much better passer and moves better without the ball.
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Re: Knicks Starting 5 

Post#42 » by dakomish23 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:08 am

vallen wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
vallen wrote:
theres more to developing players then throwing them on the court. you seriously think throwing rookies out to the wolves is the best idea ? in new york city ?

Frank should develop slowly like Antetokounmpo did.


Honestly, I could care less about the wolves. There will always be a peanut gallery.

Frank has played in a professional league. He'll have his ups and downs, but we have to go through the growing pains no matter what. What better time than a season with zero expectations?

Dotson is 23 & in probably the best shape of any player on this roster. No reason he can't start from day one.

I'm all in on the development this year. I'm hoping the organization is as well. Right now it doesn't seem like they are, but let's see what happens when everyone's healthy.



Dotson player 4 years of college and is 23, i agree hes been around. Frank is 19. he went 1 for 7 in his only 18 minutes. if we start that kid and he plays 3 games and shoots something like 5 for 28 hes dead man walking. hes young, needs to start off slowly. thats what development is. getting your feet wet before you jump in the pool. it isnt the 2kesque way everyone here perceives. and the expectations for this kid are far from zero.


The last reason to hold this kid from the starting lineup is because of how people will react to a bad start.

Maybe if there was clearly a better option ahead of him I could understand. Sessions isn't a better option.

KP started from day one. Was that 2Kesque for you?
Dkillanyk4lyf wrote:Melo is the reason why we are in the mess we are in now. Acquiring him was the biggest mistake in knicks history.


blueNorange wrote:good thing knicks have kanter because willy looking pedestrian af
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Re: Knicks Starting 5 

Post#43 » by reub » Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:08 am

Willy is going to be terrific. He has an all around game and will be the third Gasol brother. But to start the season I'd go with :

Sessions
THJ
Beasley
KP
Kanter

That's probably our best combination of experience and synergism. Maybe Lee for Bease against small ball lineups.

Second unit:

Frank/Baker
Lee
Dotson/McBuckets
Willy
O'Quinn

I'm not a big fan of McBuckets off of his preseason or previous record. Lance can be used to make an occasional defensive statement. Noah should get 15 minutes too if he doesn't reinjure himself before his suspension is served.
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Re: Knicks Starting 5 

Post#44 » by vallen » Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:23 am

dakomish23 wrote:
vallen wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
Honestly, I could care less about the wolves. There will always be a peanut gallery.

Frank has played in a professional league. He'll have his ups and downs, but we have to go through the growing pains no matter what. What better time than a season with zero expectations?

Dotson is 23 & in probably the best shape of any player on this roster. No reason he can't start from day one.

I'm all in on the development this year. I'm hoping the organization is as well. Right now it doesn't seem like they are, but let's see what happens when everyone's healthy.



Dotson player 4 years of college and is 23, i agree hes been around. Frank is 19. he went 1 for 7 in his only 18 minutes. if we start that kid and he plays 3 games and shoots something like 5 for 28 hes dead man walking. hes young, needs to start off slowly. thats what development is. getting your feet wet before you jump in the pool. it isnt the 2kesque way everyone here perceives. and the expectations for this kid are far from zero.


The last reason to hold this kid from the starting lineup is because of how people will react to a bad start.

Maybe if there was clearly a better option ahead of him I could understand. Sessions isn't a better option.

KP started from day one. Was that 2Kesque for you?



KP had more experience and playing time in Europe, wasnt running a team, and had a an allstar player to take the pressure off. If he truly is the better player, he will be starting in no time. there is no hurry. we will soon see what frank is made of, but you dont know hes the better option yet. he played 18 minutes and went 1 for 7 with 2 turnovers. relax, let him get his feels. he will get there.
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Re: Knicks Starting 5 

Post#45 » by dakomish23 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:45 am

vallen wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
vallen wrote:

Dotson player 4 years of college and is 23, i agree hes been around. Frank is 19. he went 1 for 7 in his only 18 minutes. if we start that kid and he plays 3 games and shoots something like 5 for 28 hes dead man walking. hes young, needs to start off slowly. thats what development is. getting your feet wet before you jump in the pool. it isnt the 2kesque way everyone here perceives. and the expectations for this kid are far from zero.


The last reason to hold this kid from the starting lineup is because of how people will react to a bad start.

Maybe if there was clearly a better option ahead of him I could understand. Sessions isn't a better option.

KP started from day one. Was that 2Kesque for you?



KP had more experience and playing time in Europe, wasnt running a team, and had a an allstar player to take the pressure off. If he truly is the better player, he will be starting in no time. there is no hurry. we will soon see what frank is made of, but you dont know hes the better option yet. he played 18 minutes and went 1 for 7 with 2 turnovers. relax, let him get his feels. he will get there.


So if he went 4 for 7 and zero turnovers in his first action you'd be fine with it?

He is the better player, I have no doubt about it. That's why I'd start him. I'd limit his ball handling duties somewhat but he'd be out there with the rest of the young guys who should be starting as well.

I'm not asking him to be a stud from day one.
Dkillanyk4lyf wrote:Melo is the reason why we are in the mess we are in now. Acquiring him was the biggest mistake in knicks history.


blueNorange wrote:good thing knicks have kanter because willy looking pedestrian af
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Re: Knicks Starting 5 

Post#46 » by Garbagelo » Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:01 am

if there is 1 reason that Frank should be starting it is to protect KP

if sessions starts, KP will foul out of every 1st quarter because he cant stop anyone from penetrating and getting KP into trouble
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Re: Knicks Starting 5 

Post#47 » by PeoplesChamp » Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:19 am

Garbagelo wrote:if there is 1 reason that Frank should be starting it is to protect KP

if sessions starts, KP will foul out of every 1st quarter because he cant stop anyone from penetrating and getting KP into trouble


Good. Then KP can sit and we lose more games for the tank. And KP gets to learn how to play when in foul trouble.

He'll need that skill for when we're in a deep playoff game 5 years from now.

Win win.
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Re: Knicks Starting 5 

Post#48 » by Wolfgang630 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:22 am

KP needs great guards to win. Sorry to tell you, but frontcourt players don't win championships anymore. Maybe one day, but it's all about backcourt players in today's league.
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Re: Knicks Starting 5 

Post#49 » by Garbagelo » Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:27 am

PeoplesChamp wrote:
Garbagelo wrote:if there is 1 reason that Frank should be starting it is to protect KP

if sessions starts, KP will foul out of every 1st quarter because he cant stop anyone from penetrating and getting KP into trouble


Good. Then KP can sit and we lose more games for the tank. And KP gets to learn how to play when in foul trouble.

He'll need that skill for when we're in a deep playoff game 5 years from now.

Win win.


its not easy to move a 7'3" - 7'5" body around to continuously and with great coordination

fouls are gonna happen
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Re: Knicks Starting 5 

Post#50 » by PeoplesChamp » Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:44 am

Garbagelo wrote:
PeoplesChamp wrote:
Garbagelo wrote:if there is 1 reason that Frank should be starting it is to protect KP

if sessions starts, KP will foul out of every 1st quarter because he cant stop anyone from penetrating and getting KP into trouble


Good. Then KP can sit and we lose more games for the tank. And KP gets to learn how to play when in foul trouble.

He'll need that skill for when we're in a deep playoff game 5 years from now.

Win win.


its not easy to move a 7'3" - 7'5" body around to continuously and with great coordination

fouls are gonna happen

Is that a counter-point?

He still needs to learn it. This team isn't going to be very good this year so we need to find the bright side where we can.
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Re: Knicks Starting 5 

Post#51 » by HarthorneWingo » Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:01 am

PeoplesChamp wrote:
Garbagelo wrote:
PeoplesChamp wrote:
Good. Then KP can sit and we lose more games for the tank. And KP gets to learn how to play when in foul trouble.

He'll need that skill for when we're in a deep playoff game 5 years from now.

Win win.


its not easy to move a 7'3" - 7'5" body around to continuously and with great coordination

fouls are gonna happen

Is that a counter-point?

He still needs to learn it. This team isn't going to be very good this year so we need to find the bright side where we can.


At the very least, we can play our young guards who - allegedly - have the legs to play defense. As long as we're letting players learn on the job, why not them too?
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Re: Knicks Starting 5 

Post#52 » by BLACKFEET 2010 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:29 am

Kanter
KP
Lee
Tim
Sessions
Wily
Beasley
Frank
McD
Dot

1. Lee adds a level of activity on both sides of the ball we need. Not to win more games necessarily but to keep the energy and professionalism up. We talk a lot about culture, knowledge of the league and necessary work ethic and usually those guys don’t play because they’re old or broken down (sorry Noah); Lee is a gamer who’s gonna compete defensively, not dominate the ball, not take contested momentum killing shots, etc. I wasn’t a fan of this at first but let’s face it, we aren’t gonna be very good this season. We will look even that much more inept without an adult out there setting the tone. You start him at the three. He won’t hurt you. Or the tank. But the kids won’t boolsheet our there.

2. Frank, and I’m behind him, is just a rumor at this point.
The alarming part of this is Jeff intimating Frank has to learn at some point how to play when not feeling his best. He’s kinda changed his tone but my point is let this kid get his strength up. Throwing him to the wolves sounds cool but he’s all upside right now. He has to work. If he’s not destroying the meh guards in front of him him right now what is Russell Westbrook gonna do to him opening night? He needs to get his NBA strength training on. There’s no rush to start him anyway. Maybe we inflate Sessions value to get something for him come deadline time. Whatever. Let Frank dominate in practice before we gift him anything. That’s development. I mean it’s not even a question right now because the kid isn’t even able to practice.


3. Kanter should start because he’s better than Wily right now. He’s only 25 himself and isn’t here as a mentor. Maybe he’s a piece for the future. And I dunno if it’s something in the water but guys leave OKC and become players. This dude is good enough at what he’s good at. Dump the ball to him and he can get a bucket.

4. Beasley is a microwave. Ideally you don’t put him on the floor with a bunch of featured guys. Wily in theory fits off the bench with him as he did with Melo. He (Wily) can still get near a double double off the bench. But I’m pretty sure Enes is giving Big Will the business in practice. Beasley is gonna take a lotta shots. Can’t have him, KP and Tim fighting for touches.
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Re: Knicks Starting 5 

Post#53 » by PeoplesChamp » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:30 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
PeoplesChamp wrote:
Garbagelo wrote:
its not easy to move a 7'3" - 7'5" body around to continuously and with great coordination

fouls are gonna happen

Is that a counter-point?

He still needs to learn it. This team isn't going to be very good this year so we need to find the bright side where we can.


At the very least, we can play our young guards who - allegedly - have the legs to play defense. As long as we're letting players learn on the job, why not them too?


PG is known for being the position with the steepest learning curve in the league. Sometimes, it's better to bring a rookie PG along slowly. Especially one so young. Like with the QB position in football.

The strongest oak was once an acorn.

Frank is a rookie, KP is going into his 3rd season. They're at different stages of development.
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Re: Knicks Starting 5 

Post#54 » by Reign23 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:12 am

dakomish23 wrote:It should be these 8 when everyone's healthy.

Frank Baker
THJ
Dotson MCD
KP
WHG KOQ

Everyone else can fill in the gaps and/or waive towels from the bench.

If everyone's healthy & you're starting that lineup, you are not focusing on development.


true, but it's not gonna happen..
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Re: Knicks Starting 5 

Post#55 » by Reign23 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:33 am

I'm starting to warm up to the idea of trading willy for a first round pick. he's not going to get enough playing time to develop right and a bum coach. we had to do 2 things in a melo trade -> a) don't get massive contracts back and most importantly b) not getting average non-d players back who steal playing time from our young guns. but...yeah..
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Re: Knicks Starting 5 

Post#56 » by vincccent » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:36 am

Boosting Kanter's and Lee's trade value and playing the young guns should be the most important part till the all star break, get some picks or young talent.
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Re: Knicks Starting 5 

Post#57 » by thebuzzardman » Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:41 am

BLACKFEET 2010 wrote:Kanter
KP
Lee
Tim
Sessions
Wily
Beasley
Frank
McD
Dot

1. Lee adds a level of activity on both sides of the ball we need. Not to win more games necessarily but to keep the energy and professionalism up. We talk a lot about culture, knowledge of the league and necessary work ethic and usually those guys don’t play because they’re old or broken down (sorry Noah); Lee is a gamer who’s gonna compete defensively, not dominate the ball, not take contested momentum killing shots, etc. I wasn’t a fan of this at first but let’s face it, we aren’t gonna be very good this season. We will look even that much more inept without an adult out there setting the tone. You start him at the three. He won’t hurt you. Or the tank. But the kids won’t boolsheet our there.

2. Frank, and I’m behind him, is just a rumor at this point.
The alarming part of this is Jeff intimating Frank has to learn at some point how to play when not feeling his best. He’s kinda changed his tone but my point is let this kid get his strength up. Throwing him to the wolves sounds cool but he’s all upside right now. He has to work. If he’s not destroying the meh guards in front of him him right now what is Russell Westbrook gonna do to him opening night? He needs to get his NBA strength training on. There’s no rush to start him anyway. Maybe we inflate Sessions value to get something for him come deadline time. Whatever. Let Frank dominate in practice before we gift him anything. That’s development. I mean it’s not even a question right now because the kid isn’t even able to practice.


3. Kanter should start because he’s better than Wily right now. He’s only 25 himself and isn’t here as a mentor. Maybe he’s a piece for the future. And I dunno if it’s something in the water but guys leave OKC and become players. This dude is good enough at what he’s good at. Dump the ball to him and he can get a bucket.

4. Beasley is a microwave. Ideally you don’t put him on the floor with a bunch of featured guys. Wily in theory fits off the bench with him as he did with Melo. He (Wily) can still get near a double double off the bench. But I’m pretty sure Enes is giving Big Will the business in practice. Beasley is gonna take a lotta shots. Can’t have him, KP and Tim fighting for touches.


Honestly, this makes the most sense. And sure, I'd rather WHG play over Kanter, but Kanter is a bit better at scoring in the post. WHG will get his chances to play with KP coming off the bench. It's not like Kanter doesn't like to foul...
A concern is Kanter might be better ultimately at putting the ball in the hoop, but it's how he gets those points. WHG, last year at least, seems more capable of playing in the flow and moving around. While Kanter can score more easily (not by a lot) the offense to me seems like it will function better with WHG. Ultimately moot, I think their minutes will be split no matter who starts.

I personally was back and forth between who would start at the 3 between McDermott and Beasley, but always felt that Beasley would be best off the bench at backup 4. Ultimately, I think the Knicks go small and CLee gets the nod over both at SF.

Baker is 10th man - spot playing time, based on foul trouble and hopefully not injury. Maybe he gets a chance later in the year if the Knicks dump Sessions somewhere.
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Re: Knicks Starting 5 

Post#58 » by Knicksfan20 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:45 am

Send Willy to the d league. Let him dominate for 15 games til you can trade oquinn or Kanter. Otherwise the 10 mpg he will barely get isn't going to do much for his development.
Timberwolves:13
C: Whiteside/Oquinn/J. Allen
PF: Love/Gay/Young/TJ Leaf/Anunoby/Dwill
SF: T.Young/Gay/Afflalo/Anunoby/Dwill
SG: Barton/Tyler Johnson/Afflalo/Stuckey
PG: Schroder/Tyler Johnson/Exum/Stuckey
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Re: RE: Knicks Starting 5 

Post#59 » by seren » Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:33 am

2010 wrote:PG: Ramon Sessions
SG: Tim Hardaway Jr.
SF: Courtney Lee
PF: Kristaps Porzingis
C: Enes Kanter

http://nypost.com/2017/10/12/knicks-opening-night-starting-5-becoming-clear-without-ntilikina/

There goes your fake rebuilding. I vomited a little.

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Re: RE: Knicks Starting 5 

Post#60 » by VirginiaKnickFan » Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:39 am

seren wrote:
2010 wrote:PG: Ramon Sessions
SG: Tim Hardaway Jr.
SF: Courtney Lee
PF: Kristaps Porzingis
C: Enes Kanter

http://nypost.com/2017/10/12/knicks-opening-night-starting-5-becoming-clear-without-ntilikina/

There goes your fake rebuilding. I vomited a little.

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Have faith, that line-up is still tank-ready. Where's the defense with just about any combination of players you put out there on the Knicks roster. Add a few injuries that always occur and the tank is in good hands.

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