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Preliminary Look At +/-: Why Kanter Needs To Be Benched

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Re: Preliminary Look At +/-: Why Kanter Needs To Be Benched 

Post#301 » by Thugger HBC » Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:43 pm

3 Train wrote:The knicks wall made a video response to this thread


The bottom line is Kanter is clearly making attempts on the defensive end. Sometimes it results in good things, sometimes it doesn't.

I recall even the last year Calderon was here, I gave credit when he tried on defense, and I couldn't stand the guy. but I'll give credit when I see it.

Kanter knows he has to give the effort on that end because he has a couple of bigs behind him that will gladly eat some of his minutes.

Kanter has earned that starters job, his minutes per game however, are earned on a game by game basis, hi efforts and his production.....as it should be.
If winning matters, the role shouldn't.....the results should.

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Re: Preliminary Look At +/-: Why Kanter Needs To Be Benched 

Post#302 » by blueNorange » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:10 am

Thugger HBC wrote:
3 Train wrote:The knicks wall made a video response to this thread


The bottom line is Kanter is clearly making attempts on the defensive end. Sometimes it results in good things, sometimes it doesn't.

I recall even the last year Calderon was here, I gave credit when he tried on defense, and I couldn't stand the guy. but I'll give credit when I see it.

Kanter knows he has to give the effort on that end because he has a couple of bigs behind him that will gladly eat some of his minutes.

Kanter has earned that starters job, his minutes per game however, are earned on a game by game basis, hi efforts and his production.....as it should be.

you don't get it though, he's "clogging" the lane for a player who's dropping 30 ppg on 61 ts% :rofl:
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Re: Preliminary Look At +/-: Why Kanter Needs To Be Benched 

Post#303 » by MP4LIFE » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:12 am

blueNorange wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:
3 Train wrote:The knicks wall made a video response to this thread


The bottom line is Kanter is clearly making attempts on the defensive end. Sometimes it results in good things, sometimes it doesn't.

I recall even the last year Calderon was here, I gave credit when he tried on defense, and I couldn't stand the guy. but I'll give credit when I see it.

Kanter knows he has to give the effort on that end because he has a couple of bigs behind him that will gladly eat some of his minutes.

Kanter has earned that starters job, his minutes per game however, are earned on a game by game basis, hi efforts and his production.....as it should be.

you don't get it though, he's "clogging" the lane for a player who's dropping 30 ppg on 61 ts% :rofl:


Trying to figure out if this an insult or a compliment.
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Re: Preliminary Look At +/-: Why Kanter Needs To Be Benched 

Post#304 » by Thugger HBC » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:12 am

blueNorange wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:
3 Train wrote:The knicks wall made a video response to this thread


The bottom line is Kanter is clearly making attempts on the defensive end. Sometimes it results in good things, sometimes it doesn't.

I recall even the last year Calderon was here, I gave credit when he tried on defense, and I couldn't stand the guy. but I'll give credit when I see it.

Kanter knows he has to give the effort on that end because he has a couple of bigs behind him that will gladly eat some of his minutes.

Kanter has earned that starters job, his minutes per game however, are earned on a game by game basis, hi efforts and his production.....as it should be.

you don't get it though, he's "clogging" the lane for a player who's dropping 30 ppg on 61 ts% :rofl:

I still don't understand where the clogging the paint came from.
If winning matters, the role shouldn't.....the results should.

The ...02% of the fanbse be like...http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1542565&start=140#start_here
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Re: Preliminary Look At +/-: Why Kanter Needs To Be Benched 

Post#305 » by blueNorange » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:33 am

Thugger HBC wrote:
blueNorange wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:
The bottom line is Kanter is clearly making attempts on the defensive end. Sometimes it results in good things, sometimes it doesn't.

I recall even the last year Calderon was here, I gave credit when he tried on defense, and I couldn't stand the guy. but I'll give credit when I see it.

Kanter knows he has to give the effort on that end because he has a couple of bigs behind him that will gladly eat some of his minutes.

Kanter has earned that starters job, his minutes per game however, are earned on a game by game basis, hi efforts and his production.....as it should be.

you don't get it though, he's "clogging" the lane for a player who's dropping 30 ppg on 61 ts% :rofl:

I still don't understand where the clogging the paint came from.

all it takes is one terrible game FROM EVERYONE, edit the plays that make look kanter look bad, talk about bad spacing, and then blame it on kanter.

after that all you need is the consistent haters to eat this garbage up and run with it, the same with the stupid clip of donavan saying "can't play kanter"

ps. every okc fan is saying "can't have donovan coach"
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Re: Preliminary Look At +/-: Why Kanter Needs To Be Benched 

Post#306 » by Phish Tank » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:40 am

yeah I mean at least Kanter's trying.

And he looks in much better shape than Willy honestly.
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Re: Preliminary Look At +/-: Why Kanter Needs To Be Benched 

Post#307 » by Fat Kat » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:24 pm

This thread is....

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All comments made by Fat Kat are given as opinion, which may or may not be derived from facts, and not made to personally attack anyone on Realgm. All rights reserved.®
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Re: Preliminary Look At +/-: Why Kanter Needs To Be Benched 

Post#308 » by Knicksfan20 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:41 pm

Kanter was really good last night.
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Re: Preliminary Look At +/-: Why Kanter Needs To Be Benched 

Post#309 » by DrKnick » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:36 pm

Knicksfan20 wrote:Kanter was really good last night.

He really wanted that W against Man-Child.
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Re: Preliminary Look At +/-: Why Kanter Needs To Be Benched 

Post#310 » by knicks512 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:44 pm

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

ESPN released it's Real Plus-Minus. Kanter is the leading Knick (KP 2nd). Surprisingly driven more by his DRPM (.82 ORPM, 1.28 DRPM).

Still a small sample size, but shows what we've seen so far. He's been better on defense than some will give him credit for, and as a whole he's helped the team.

Not advocating any contract extensions yet (I'm down with retiring his number after the Lebron fight), but just showing what he's done so far. Let's hope he keeps it up.
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Re: Preliminary Look At +/-: Why Kanter Needs To Be Benched 

Post#311 » by Woodsanity » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:36 pm

Kanter has been doing well. Lets give credit where credit is too. I thought he was gonna be a defensive sieve while being a black hole on offense but the man has been good offensively while grabbing boards and playing serviceable defense.
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Re: Preliminary Look At +/-: Why Kanter Needs To Be Benched 

Post#312 » by Knickstape1214 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:40 pm

knicks512 wrote:http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

ESPN released it's Real Plus-Minus. Kanter is the leading Knick (KP 2nd). Surprisingly driven more by his DRPM (.82 ORPM, 1.28 DRPM).

Still a small sample size, but shows what we've seen so far. He's been better on defense than some will give him credit for, and as a whole he's helped the team.

Not advocating any contract extensions yet (I'm down with retiring his number after the Lebron fight), but just showing what he's done so far. Let's hope he keeps it up.


Synergy rankings aren't kind to him. 13th% overall, with a high of 23% defending the PnR ball handler as a help defender. :-? According to Synergy, Willy has been better by a sizeable amount. (Note - I haven't watched the clips - I might do a writeup on Enes in the future.)
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Re: Preliminary Look At +/-: Why Kanter Needs To Be Benched 

Post#313 » by HarthorneWingo » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:46 pm

Knickstape1214 wrote:
knicks512 wrote:http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

ESPN released it's Real Plus-Minus. Kanter is the leading Knick (KP 2nd). Surprisingly driven more by his DRPM (.82 ORPM, 1.28 DRPM).

Still a small sample size, but shows what we've seen so far. He's been better on defense than some will give him credit for, and as a whole he's helped the team.

Not advocating any contract extensions yet (I'm down with retiring his number after the Lebron fight), but just showing what he's done so far. Let's hope he keeps it up.


Synergy rankings aren't kind to him. 13th% overall, with a high of 23% defending the PnR ball handler as a help defender. :-? According to Synergy, Willy has been better by a sizeable amount. (Note - I haven't watched the clips - I might do a writeup on Enes in the future.)


You're certainly better versed in all aspects of advanced stats in basketball and I'm not here to say that they're all useless but I do think that due to the fluidity and spontaneity of the game makes it difficult to overcome the eye test. Thoughts?
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Re: Preliminary Look At +/-: Why Kanter Needs To Be Benched 

Post#314 » by Knickstape1214 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:50 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
Knickstape1214 wrote:
knicks512 wrote:http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

ESPN released it's Real Plus-Minus. Kanter is the leading Knick (KP 2nd). Surprisingly driven more by his DRPM (.82 ORPM, 1.28 DRPM).

Still a small sample size, but shows what we've seen so far. He's been better on defense than some will give him credit for, and as a whole he's helped the team.

Not advocating any contract extensions yet (I'm down with retiring his number after the Lebron fight), but just showing what he's done so far. Let's hope he keeps it up.


Synergy rankings aren't kind to him. 13th% overall, with a high of 23% defending the PnR ball handler as a help defender. :-? According to Synergy, Willy has been better by a sizeable amount. (Note - I haven't watched the clips - I might do a writeup on Enes in the future.)


You're certainly better versed in all aspects of advanced stats in basketball and I'm not here to say that they're all useless but I do think that due to the fluidity and spontaneity of the game makes it difficult to overcome the eye test. Thoughts?


Synergy stats aren't analytics - it's really just advanced player tracking. Advanced stats are like BPM, TS%, that kind of stuff. Gotta take everything available and use them hand in hand - can't use one without the other. His PnR help defense is atrocious, so I don't think the stats are misleading there. I don't think he's been good on defense really at all this year, but I know I'm in the minority here.

I was just pointing out the synergy stats because I have them available now. :lol:
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Re: Preliminary Look At +/-: Why Kanter Needs To Be Benched 

Post#315 » by HarthorneWingo » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:55 pm

Knickstape1214 wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Knickstape1214 wrote:
Synergy rankings aren't kind to him. 13th% overall, with a high of 23% defending the PnR ball handler as a help defender. :-? According to Synergy, Willy has been better by a sizeable amount. (Note - I haven't watched the clips - I might do a writeup on Enes in the future.)


You're certainly better versed in all aspects of advanced stats in basketball and I'm not here to say that they're all useless but I do think that due to the fluidity and spontaneity of the game makes it difficult to overcome the eye test. Thoughts?


Synergy stats aren't analytics - it's really just advanced player tracking. Advanced stats are like BPM, TS%, that kind of stuff. Gotta take everything available and use them hand in hand - can't use one without the other. His PnR help defense is atrocious, so I don't think the stats are misleading there. I don't think he's been good on defense really at all this year, but I know I'm in the minority here.

I was just pointing out the synergy stats because I have them available now. :lol:


I do think he started off horribly but it seems to me that he's making an improvement (Wally also mentioned that in the pre-game yesterday). So maybe the sample size is still too small to draw any firm conclusions at this time. And, trust me, I understand that Kanter will probably never be a great defender. I just want him to be solid i.e. knowing where to be and when. The desire is there which is why there's been some improvement already.
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Re: Preliminary Look At +/-: Why Kanter Needs To Be Benched 

Post#316 » by prophet_of_rage » Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:11 am

Thugger HBC wrote:
blueNorange wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:
The bottom line is Kanter is clearly making attempts on the defensive end. Sometimes it results in good things, sometimes it doesn't.

I recall even the last year Calderon was here, I gave credit when he tried on defense, and I couldn't stand the guy. but I'll give credit when I see it.

Kanter knows he has to give the effort on that end because he has a couple of bigs behind him that will gladly eat some of his minutes.

Kanter has earned that starters job, his minutes per game however, are earned on a game by game basis, hi efforts and his production.....as it should be.

you don't get it though, he's "clogging" the lane for a player who's dropping 30 ppg on 61 ts% :rofl:

I still don't understand where the clogging the paint came from.

Fans who pretend to understand offence and argue that Kanter doesn't stretch the floor so he's unplayable because he clogs the paint.


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Re: Preliminary Look At +/-: Why Kanter Needs To Be Benched 

Post#317 » by Knicksfan20 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:10 pm

Makes sense to have a post scorer next to Zingis since he operates mostly on the perimeter anyways.

Kanter has been looking to pass out of the post more often and has been making smart decisions with the ball. He’s not a black hole, he’s been passable on defense, hustles and plays hard on both sides of the ball, sprinting to get back on defense, a very good rebounder (reads the rebounds in the air and off the rim well also pulls down boards in traffic. ) , he hits the open jumper, outstanding % from the field and ft line...

Very little to nitpick against Kanter. His pick and roll defense has not been as bad as advertised and neither has his team defense. When you watch guys like Curry/Randolph/Lee/Amare , you can’t honestly say Kanter is a horrendous defender. Those 4 were horrendous in all aspects of defense. Kanter has lapses, but is the best defender on that list ,which isn’t saying much. I’m just saying there is a difference between trash defenders and what Kanter is.

I personally prefer Centers who are rim protectors/shot blockers and Kanter is not that. I also don’t want to pay him 17 or more then that on his contract. So I’m b ecoming a fan of his but still not sure if he’s still the best option moving forward.
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Re: Preliminary Look At +/-: Why Kanter Needs To Be Benched 

Post#318 » by Knicksfan20 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:15 pm

Woodsanity wrote:Kanter has been doing well. Lets give credit where credit is too. I thought he was gonna be a defensive sieve while being a black hole on offense but the man has been good offensively while grabbing boards and playing serviceable defense.


He’s drawing double teams (something stats don’t show)
He’s making good passes and showing awareness from the post (something stats don’t show)

He’s been far from a black hole. If anything we should look to go to him more often, it frees up jump shooters and he’s averaging in the high 60s from the field and almost 90% from the line.
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