ImageImageImageImageImage

Before you get too hyped about our success....

Moderators: moocow007, magnumt, Capn'O, Knickstape1214, Thorn, King of Canada, GONYK, NoLayupRule, mrpoetryNmotion, Thugger HBC, Deeeez Knicks, j4remi

User avatar
Clyde_Style
RealGM
Posts: 20,098
And1: 5,104
Joined: Jul 12, 2009

Re: Before you get too hyped about our success.... 

Post#21 » by Clyde_Style » Wed Nov 8, 2017 6:14 pm

NYKAL wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
Zooropa wrote:Someone on Twitter brought this up last night, but the real test for this team is going to be the brutal stretch (18 of 25 games on the road) heading into the ASB. If they can continue to rack up the home wins before that happens, and head into the break ~.500, then we could be looking at playoffs. A long way to go, but the team is competitive and the games are must-watch.


All it would take to win some of those games on the road is if the team plays up to its current level

and

Doug gets more burn
Frank keeps evolving
Tim refines his shot selection

so there is plenty more upside to this team this season

especially as they get more accustomed to each other

and

refine their defense



If Tims shot selection doesn't improve, I hope Jeff starts yanking him...maybe give Dotson some burn. Hopefully with the light schedule the next week or so, they will have time to watch tape and point these things out to him. Team should look sharper with a few days of practice coming up. They only play tonight, Sunday & Wed if I'm not mistaken.


I don't why some of you keep praying for something you know is not happening anytime soon.
...............................................................................Image
User avatar
NoLayupRule
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 45,366
And1: 7,750
Joined: Dec 06, 2002
Location: Playoffs Fool!
Contact:

Re: Before you get too hyped about our success.... 

Post#22 » by NoLayupRule » Wed Nov 8, 2017 6:16 pm

this will still be a tank/lottery season

but what we are seeing here is growth of the team and growth of our franchise player in a quicker and more impressive way than we had anticipated in best case scenario
User avatar
Clyde_Style
RealGM
Posts: 20,098
And1: 5,104
Joined: Jul 12, 2009

Re: Before you get too hyped about our success.... 

Post#23 » by Clyde_Style » Wed Nov 8, 2017 6:16 pm

Zooropa wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
Zooropa wrote:Someone on Twitter brought this up last night, but the real test for this team is going to be the brutal stretch (18 of 25 games on the road) heading into the ASB. If they can continue to rack up the home wins before that happens, and head into the break ~.500, then we could be looking at playoffs. A long way to go, but the team is competitive and the games are must-watch.


All it would take to win some of those games on the road is if the team plays up to its current level

and

Doug gets more burn
Frank keeps evolving
Tim refines his shot selection

so there is plenty more upside to this team this season

especially as they get more accustomed to each other

and

refine their defense


I hope so. The fear would be that the current level of play is more or less the ceiling for this team, and faced with adversity some of the cohesion we see could devolve a little bit, but your scenario is equally possible. We'll have to see –– the team is still largely untested.

Very interested in tonight's game, which is basically a "schedule loss" on paper. Road back to back coming off of a wildly successful home stand –– the type of game where you'd expect to see a hangover and a lack of competitive fire. Think back to the second night of our home and home against Charlotte around this time last year. We won the first at home in thrilling fashion (overtime, I think?), and then no-showed the next night in their building. Of course, it's a totally different team + makeup, so I'll be looking for the young guys to come out hungry and actively fight that hangover. That would be telling. If we lose tonight, it's also not the end of the world at all.


Why would it be the ceiling when there is plenty of youthful talent being developed by the coaching staff?

Frank is just getting started. KP has tons of room to improve. Dougie is starting to roll. Dotson is waiting patiently. Tim can certainly get better.

The synergies are just forming now. Much upside is left in this season
...............................................................................Image
User avatar
Clyde_Style
RealGM
Posts: 20,098
And1: 5,104
Joined: Jul 12, 2009

Re: Before you get too hyped about our success.... 

Post#24 » by Clyde_Style » Wed Nov 8, 2017 6:17 pm

NoLayupRule wrote:this will still be a tank/lottery season

but what we are seeing here is growth of the team and growth of our franchise player in a quicker and more impressive way than we had anticipated in best case scenario


And at what point do you revise that projection?
...............................................................................Image
User avatar
3toheadmelo
RealGM
Posts: 16,038
And1: 9,606
Joined: Feb 15, 2015
 

Re: Before you get too hyped about our success.... 

Post#25 » by 3toheadmelo » Wed Nov 8, 2017 6:19 pm

i have no expectations for this team. just going with the flow
Cavs

PG: Dennis Smith Jr/A Brooks/D Will
SG: Josh Jackson/Dwayne Bacon/Bryn Forbes
SF: Jayson Tatum/Shabazz Muhammad/Glenn Robinson III
PF: Skal Labissiere/Caleb Swanigan/Long
C: Bam Adebayo/Dwight Powell/Justin Patton

Image
User avatar
SelbyCobra
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,774
And1: 5,658
Joined: May 25, 2011

Re: Before you get too hyped about our success.... 

Post#26 » by SelbyCobra » Wed Nov 8, 2017 6:22 pm

shtolky wrote:I don't want to speak for others, but I am much happier about KP's superstar play and Frank's early play vs. our record. To me, the season is a massive success if KP keeps this up and Frank continues to grow as a 19 year old. The record is just gravy.


I mostly agree with this, and definitely the sentiment behind it, but I actually disagree with the record being gravy - the record is the most important thing. There are a lot of young cats in this league who we all drool over in the Around The NBA threads, who post great stats and look amazing in highlights. If the Knicks have one of those in KP, then I'm stoked.

But most, if not all of those players are not in winning situations all by themselves. They lose tons of games and their fans talk about them needing help, or another piece before the glorious production they contribute can actually produce wins. The ones who have the great statistical production AND control the team's win production on their own are the only real cornerstones of the league - the transformative players. So to me the wins are the most important thing with KP shouldering the load on this Knicks roster.

I'd rather the Knicks go 37-45 this year with KP averaging 19 PPG then 22-60 with KP averaging 28 PPG. The former, to me at least, means that KP is potentially a transformational player with the potential to LEAD championship level teams. (For the record, I'm not saying I'd be mad with KP coming out and averaging 28 PPG on a team with a terrible record :lol: ).
Image
User avatar
Nyk_Fatboy
RealGM
Posts: 18,678
And1: 8,969
Joined: Jan 12, 2013
Location: 消え失せろ
 

Re: Before you get too hyped about our success.... 

Post#27 » by Nyk_Fatboy » Wed Nov 8, 2017 6:22 pm

Why can’t people get hype this is what we wanted a competitive young team and KP proving he can be that guy.

Playoffs is a long shot I think any level headed fan knows that but if anyone wants to be hype and have faith we’re a playoff team and love what there seeing then so be it we can’t knock them for that.

I personally rather tank but I’ll definitely support us playing well and showing fight
islanders11040 wrote:If Porzingis went #1 i would take Anal from Lexington Steele
User avatar
Knickstape1214
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 42,543
And1: 20,174
Joined: Jul 16, 2009
Location: TheFrontOfficeEye.com
Contact:
     

Re: Before you get too hyped about our success.... 

Post#28 » by Knickstape1214 » Wed Nov 8, 2017 6:36 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:i have no expectations for this team. just going with the flow


This.

It's a win-win either way. If we win more games than we should, that means our internal development is legit, KP has taken extra step, Frank is a stud, etc. We'd be winning games while developing our two franchise cornerstones (I like Willy, but I don't consider him an untouchable cornerstone). If we lose more games than we should, we'll be developing our guys anyway and will end up with a high pick.

I'm just enjoying the ride and the way most of the team has played thus far.
User avatar
Yankeeknickfan
RealGM
Posts: 11,994
And1: 4,440
Joined: Aug 30, 2014
     

Re: Before you get too hyped about our success.... 

Post#29 » by Yankeeknickfan » Wed Nov 8, 2017 6:40 pm

Op is right. Especially since the last two wins aren't really sustainable
Imageceltics
shtolky
Analyst
Posts: 3,658
And1: 1,956
Joined: Apr 15, 2005

Re: Before you get too hyped about our success.... 

Post#30 » by shtolky » Wed Nov 8, 2017 6:42 pm

SelbyCobra wrote:
shtolky wrote:I don't want to speak for others, but I am much happier about KP's superstar play and Frank's early play vs. our record. To me, the season is a massive success if KP keeps this up and Frank continues to grow as a 19 year old. The record is just gravy.


I mostly agree with this, and definitely the sentiment behind it, but I actually disagree with the record being gravy - the record is the most important thing. There are a lot of young cats in this league who we all drool over in the Around The NBA threads, who post great stats and look amazing in highlights. If the Knicks have one of those in KP, then I'm stoked.

But most, if not all of those players are not in winning situations all by themselves. They lose tons of games and their fans talk about them needing help, or another piece before the glorious production they contribute can actually produce wins. The ones who have the great statistical production AND control the team's win production on their own are the only real cornerstones of the league - the transformative players. So to me the wins are the most important thing with KP shouldering the load on this Knicks roster.

I'd rather the Knicks go 37-45 this year with KP averaging 19 PPG then 22-60 with KP averaging 28 PPG. The former, to me at least, means that KP is potentially a transformational player with the potential to LEAD championship level teams. (For the record, I'm not saying I'd be mad with KP coming out and averaging 28 PPG on a team with a terrible record :lol: ).



I don't really disagree with what you said. When I said the record was gravy, I really meant that it's secondary (though not unimportant) to the play of KP and Frank. Those two are 22 and 19 respectively, so to see them playing well is great as they are just scratching the surface. I also think that if KP keeps playing like this, wins will follow. Not a chance we lose a ton of games with KP averaging 28ppg, hitting clutch shots, and playing excellent interior D. That's why I, and I think a lot of others, are off the tank. We would rather KP go nuts and win some games over us being a bottom 8 lotto team and KP just being meh. Give me the sure thing superstar now and build around that.
Jeff Van Gully
RealGM
Posts: 11,369
And1: 5,199
Joined: Jul 31, 2010
Location: Harlem
       

Re: Before you get too hyped about our success.... 

Post#31 » by Jeff Van Gully » Wed Nov 8, 2017 6:49 pm

Zooropa wrote:Someone on Twitter brought this up last night, but the real test for this team is going to be the brutal stretch (18 of 25 games on the road) heading into the ASB. If they can continue to rack up the home wins before that happens, and head into the break ~.500, then we could be looking at playoffs. A long way to go, but the team is competitive and the games are must-watch.


i mean, how entertaining is this group?

i bet they get some adds onto the national schedule now. they always have a couple flex spots for situations like this, and some teams get pulled. :lol:

people want to see the unicorn.

knicks vs. bucks should be national for a long time.
que sera sera
Jeff Van Gully
RealGM
Posts: 11,369
And1: 5,199
Joined: Jul 31, 2010
Location: Harlem
       

Re: Before you get too hyped about our success.... 

Post#32 » by Jeff Van Gully » Wed Nov 8, 2017 6:50 pm

the christmas game should be HAM
que sera sera
User avatar
SelbyCobra
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,774
And1: 5,658
Joined: May 25, 2011

Re: Before you get too hyped about our success.... 

Post#33 » by SelbyCobra » Wed Nov 8, 2017 6:54 pm

Jeff Van Gully wrote:the christmas game should be HAM


I'm going home for the first time in 4 years and the Christmas game is the only home game while I'm there, so I have to go with my oldest. Tickets are CRAZY right now though - $170 a piece just to get in the building.
Image
User avatar
NoLayupRule
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 45,366
And1: 7,750
Joined: Dec 06, 2002
Location: Playoffs Fool!
Contact:

Re: Before you get too hyped about our success.... 

Post#34 » by NoLayupRule » Wed Nov 8, 2017 7:14 pm

Clyde_Style wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:this will still be a tank/lottery season

but what we are seeing here is growth of the team and growth of our franchise player in a quicker and more impressive way than we had anticipated in best case scenario


And at what point do you revise that projection?



march probably


Im not a tank guy
but I don't think this is a team that can go all the way

I think were overachieving and I love it
Making the playoffs would be huge for this team that was expected to do nothing

but missing the playoffs and getting one more quality player would be just fine too


if were able to get the 6th seed and its march then Im committed
7-8th seeds are a 50/50 on worth doing in my mind


and beyond that we may well be trading Lee, Kanter or KOQ at some point this season
any of which would submarine this team
Jeff Van Gully
RealGM
Posts: 11,369
And1: 5,199
Joined: Jul 31, 2010
Location: Harlem
       

Re: Before you get too hyped about our success.... 

Post#35 » by Jeff Van Gully » Wed Nov 8, 2017 7:32 pm

SelbyCobra wrote:
Jeff Van Gully wrote:the christmas game should be HAM


I'm going home for the first time in 4 years and the Christmas game is the only home game while I'm there, so I have to go with my oldest. Tickets are CRAZY right now though - $170 a piece just to get in the building.


ugh.
que sera sera
Slicin N Dicin
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,477
And1: 912
Joined: Dec 26, 2011
       

Re: Before you get too hyped about our success.... 

Post#36 » by Slicin N Dicin » Wed Nov 8, 2017 7:35 pm

Right now - I'm hype...idgaf. Seeing the team in 2 weeks, best believe I want a win
BaF 1.0 - Bucks:

Boogie (33) / KousKous (10) / Mejri (5)
Hoodie Melo (30) / Luc (10) / J. Anderson (8)
Prince Luc (18) / Hood (20) / Shump (10)
Hood (10) / Gordon (28) / Clark (10)
CP3 (30) / Dinwiddie (18)

Q. Cook / RJ / Okaroooo
User avatar
MaseInYourFace
RealGM
Posts: 20,344
And1: 5,374
Joined: Jul 14, 2010
Location: New York City the best city in the world
     

Re: Before you get too hyped about our success.... 

Post#37 » by MaseInYourFace » Wed Nov 8, 2017 7:44 pm

My expectations are low so no worries here.
A new era or error?
BasicBall
RealGM
Posts: 11,067
And1: 360
Joined: Jul 18, 2003

Re: Before you get too hyped about our success.... 

Post#38 » by BasicBall » Wed Nov 8, 2017 7:45 pm

All I want is for them to continue to play hard and develop Frank....By the way, this streak started when Jack became a starter and Frank started to get minutes....Solid point guard play is vital in the NBA and NY has been getting that. Jarrett Jack has been a godsend! All that being said, NY still needs a small forward, so I am still praying we are good enough to be bad enough to draft Michael Porter Jr! WORD!!

PS, Jabari Parker would be a great addition too....just saying
Don't raise your voice, improve your argument :nod:
User avatar
NoLayupRule
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 45,366
And1: 7,750
Joined: Dec 06, 2002
Location: Playoffs Fool!
Contact:

Re: Before you get too hyped about our success.... 

Post#39 » by NoLayupRule » Wed Nov 8, 2017 8:59 pm

BasicBall wrote:All I want is for them to continue to play hard and develop Frank....By the way, this streak started when Jack became a starter and Frank started to get minutes....Solid point guard play is vital in the NBA and NY has been getting that. Jarrett Jack has been a godsend! All that being said, NY still needs a small forward, so I am still praying we are good enough to be bad enough to draft Michael Porter Jr! WORD!!

PS, Jabari Parker would be a great addition too....just saying

yeah

and he's looking for a fat paycheck

I wonder if he will hit free agency and if so if we could lure him in
User avatar
magnumt
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 43,116
And1: 8,087
Joined: Jan 27, 2004
Location: Gott'a Stick To My Girls Like Glue, Ain't No No. 2 Here...Sean Paul Style, Baby Gyrl!!!
         

Re: Before you get too hyped about our success.... 

Post#40 » by magnumt » Wed Nov 8, 2017 9:20 pm

shtolky wrote:I don't want to speak for others, but I am much happier about KP's superstar play and Frank's early play vs. our record. To me, the season is a massive success if KP keeps this up and Frank continues to grow as a 19 year old. The record is just gravy.


I swear man, each and every time your POVs ALWAYS echeny own! :D

--Mags :beer:
BAF 1.0 - Wizards
Damian Lillard / Ish Smith / Raymond Felton
Gordon Hayward / Derrick Rose / Sterling Brown
Ersan Ilyasova / Doug McDermott / Sean Kilpatrick
Dirk Nowitzki / Channing Frye / Matt Barnes
Dwight Howard / Greg Monroe / Timofey Mozgov

Return to New York Knicks