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Looking ahead: Possible Cap Space for 2018 Free Agency

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Re: Looking ahead: Possible Cap Space for 2018 Free Agency 

Post#21 » by xNewYorkMadex » Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:51 pm

Have no idea how much cap space we will have, or potentially can create.

But I would definitely go after Paul George. Not likely, but he'll be a fantastic 2nd option next to KP. Strong 2 way player and has the ability to create as well. Only 28 so he should be able to give a strong return on investment. Will be 32 years old when deal expires, unlike CP3 who will be 37. I'd stay away from Paul.

DeAndre is also another interesting option depending on the price. Our defense can be ferocious with Frank, KP and DeAndre.

My top option would be Jabari Parker though. The problem is, hes restricted. But with his injury history the Bucks might let him go in the price is too high. I think hes capable of coming back strong. He'd be the perfect SF and fits our timeline.
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Re: Looking ahead: Possible Cap Space for 2018 Free Agency 

Post#22 » by xNewYorkMadex » Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:54 pm

KnixinSix wrote:https://sports.yahoo.com/top-50-nba-free-agents-2018-131115656.html

Didn't even realize the other guys who can opt out or are FAs:

1.James (best player in the world, a physical specimen and should play at a dominant level for another 2-3 years)
2.Westbrook (if this thing doesn't work out in OKC he could go)
3.Cousins (dude is a monster and can do everything from the 5 position)- Pelicans have underwhelmed
4.George (2 way player)
4.Paul (2 way player)
5.Durant (don't see him leaving GS, but you never know)

To me even if we tried to stay under for under age 30 players Lebron is an exception (because it's LeBron and he gets teams to the finals practically by himself) this would be one fo thr best rosters hes been on potentially with KP and depending on what else we do roster shuffling. But even for those who don't want over 30. You have Westbrook (who could split with Frank and even play the 2 some of the time). Cousins, George and a small chance for even Durant.

These players aren't the players we've mortgaged the future for in the past. They are all multi-faceted elite stars who are a level above the likes of Stoudemire, Spreewell, MCDyss,Anthony (High volume, lower efficiency, inconsistent D).

Westbrook signed his extension btw and isnt a potential free agent anymore.
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Re: Looking ahead: Possible Cap Space for 2018 Free Agency 

Post#23 » by K-DOT » Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:54 pm

KnixinSix wrote:https://sports.yahoo.com/top-50-nba-free-agents-2018-131115656.html

Didn't even realize the other guys who can opt out or are FAs:

1.James (best player in the world, a physical specimen and should play at a dominant level for another 2-3 years)
2.Westbrook (if this thing doesn't work out in OKC he could go)
3.Cousins (dude is a monster and can do everything from the 5 position)- Pelicans have underwhelmed
4.George (2 way player)
4.Paul (2 way player)
5.Durant (don't see him leaving GS, but you never know)

To me even if we tried to stay under for under age 30 players Lebron is an exception (because it's LeBron and he gets teams to the finals practically by himself) this would be one fo thr best rosters hes been on potentially with KP and depending on what else we do roster shuffling. But even for those who don't want over 30. You have Westbrook (who could split with Frank and even play the 2 some of the time). Cousins, George and a small chance for even Durant.

These players aren't the players we've mortgaged the future for in the past. They are all multi-faceted elite stars who are a level above the likes of Stoudemire, Spreewell, MCDyss,Anthony (High volume, lower efficiency, inconsistent D).

LeBron isn't coming here
Westbrook already signed an extension
You really wanna dump more money into a Center when that's KP's future position?
Chris Paul forced a trade and wrote a rule into the CBA to allow him to get a supermax. He's not leaving to get paid less.
lol if you think Durant will even consider us

Only one I could even remotely see coming here is Paul George, but we wouldn't even be top 3 on his list of teams he'd want to go to

Ride out the contracts, draft well, and use cap on role players on cheap deals to complement stars
Stop chasing star players near or over 30 in FA. That's a terrible way to build a team
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Re: Looking ahead: Possible Cap Space for 2018 Free Agency 

Post#24 » by KnixinSix » Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:59 pm

K-DOT wrote:Why are we still looking for FA stars?
That's the least efficient way to get talent

You draft star players, you sign role players

Plus, you really want 15 mil in dead cap for 3 years? And you want to pay Noah through 2023?

Christ, I thought we were done with this sh*t


If we continue playing like we are now, KP proving he is a top 5 player for years to come ( unstoppable force, do it all 7-3 unicorn), playing commited team defense (this team has a bunch of hustle players and plus defenders), we have a very good chance of drafting in the double digits of round 1 for awhile. Unfortunately, the chances of drafting the next superstar outside of the top 10 drops quite a bit.

If we have a shot at the caliber of players we can get this off-season to team up with KP you do it. This isn't max contracts to 1 way scorers like Kevin Love or volume Carmelo , Amare No D Stoutemire, etc. these are superstars that can do multiple key things at elite levels.

Whether we like it or not, Miami won multiple titles by signing the best FAs, Cleveland won by one drafted star (Kyrie) and signing some max FAs. GS brought in Durant.

We have started showing the league that we could very well have the necessary things which make a team attractive to the top players: Good offensive system and coach, possibly and finally a sound front office( and unified vision with what the coach is trying to do), good role players , and a top 5 all NBA young talent on the roster currently.
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Re: Looking ahead: Possible Cap Space for 2018 Free Agency 

Post#25 » by KnixinSix » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:07 pm

xNewYorkMadex wrote:
KnixinSix wrote:https://sports.yahoo.com/top-50-nba-free-agents-2018-131115656.html

Didn't even realize the other guys who can opt out or are FAs:

1.James (best player in the world, a physical specimen and should play at a dominant level for another 2-3 years)
2.Westbrook (if this thing doesn't work out in OKC he could go)
3.Cousins (dude is a monster and can do everything from the 5 position)- Pelicans have underwhelmed
4.George (2 way player)
4.Paul (2 way player)
5.Durant (don't see him leaving GS, but you never know)

To me even if we tried to stay under for under age 30 players Lebron is an exception (because it's LeBron and he gets teams to the finals practically by himself) this would be one fo thr best rosters hes been on potentially with KP and depending on what else we do roster shuffling. But even for those who don't want over 30. You have Westbrook (who could split with Frank and even play the 2 some of the time). Cousins, George and a small chance for even Durant.

These players aren't the players we've mortgaged the future for in the past. They are all multi-faceted elite stars who are a level above the likes of Stoudemire, Spreewell, MCDyss,Anthony (High volume, lower efficiency, inconsistent D).

Westbrook signed his extension btw and isnt a potential free agent anymore.


Thanks, I removed Westbrook from the list, though it hasn't been made clear if he has the opt out option that so many stars have recently been including into their contracts.
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Re: Looking ahead: Possible Cap Space for 2018 Free Agency 

Post#26 » by KnixinSix » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:09 pm

xNewYorkMadex wrote:Have no idea how much cap space we will have, or potentially can create.

But I would definitely go after Paul George. Not likely, but he'll be a fantastic 2nd option next to KP. Strong 2 way player and has the ability to create as well. Only 28 so he should be able to give a strong return on investment. Will be 32 years old when deal expires, unlike CP3 who will be 37. I'd stay away from Paul.

DeAndre is also another interesting option depending on the price. Our defense can be ferocious with Frank, KP and DeAndre.

My top option would be Jabari Parker though. The problem is, hes restricted. But with his injury history the Bucks might let him go in the price is too high. I think hes capable of coming back strong. He'd be the perfect SF and fits our timeline.


See the spreadsheet in the OP. With some creativity we can open up upwards of 50million this off-season should we choose to.

Imagine Paul George and LeBron to team with KP next year? Could that team contend for a championship? Isn't that what this is all about?
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Re: Looking ahead: Possible Cap Space for 2018 Free Agency 

Post#27 » by KnixinSix » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:19 pm

For the naysayers, say our start is legit and this team proves it is a pretty good one. If we kept most of the current guys with some tweaking and then added 2 of the top 5 on that list (for argument sake let's say James and George) you don't think that team makes the finals next year with a chance to win it all?

This isn't Melo,Rose and Noah. All players with significant warts that we'd be signing. It would be 3 of the most well rounded stars we may have ever assembled.
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Re: Looking ahead: Possible Cap Space for 2018 Free Agency 

Post#28 » by K-DOT » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:45 pm

KnixinSix wrote:For the naysayers, say our start is legit and this team proves it is a pretty good one. If we kept most of the current guys with some tweaking and then added 2 of the top 5 on that list (for argument sake let's say James and George) you don't think that team makes the finals next year with a chance to win it all?

This isn't Melo,Rose and Noah. All players with significant warts that we'd be signing. It would be 3 of the most well rounded stars we may have ever assembled.

Say we add George (only guy that's reasonable on that list of yours)

We'd have to spend roughly 30 mil per on him

Frank
Timmy/Dotson
George/LFT
KP
Willy

So we have 20 million to build a bench. That's enough for two solid bench players, which would give us a total of 8 rotation level players (9 if you count LFT which, lol). Plus that's assuming Willy is starter level which honestly he isn't. Then you'd need a starter level big man, which will cost 20 million, so there goes your bench. We'd have Dotson, LFT, Willy, and a bunch of vet mins off the bench

That team maybe makes the finals, but isn't good enough to be a championship team. Warriors wreck us. Plus, again, we'd have 15 million in dead salary just sitting around

I know New Yorkers hate the word "patience" but come on. We have something good brewing, don't f*ck with it
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Re: Looking ahead: Possible Cap Space for 2018 Free Agency 

Post#29 » by Besart19 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:08 pm

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Re: Looking ahead: Possible Cap Space for 2018 Free Agency 

Post#30 » by KnixinSix » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:18 pm

K-DOT wrote:
KnixinSix wrote:For the naysayers, say our start is legit and this team proves it is a pretty good one. If we kept most of the current guys with some tweaking and then added 2 of the top 5 on that list (for argument sake let's say James and George) you don't think that team makes the finals next year with a chance to win it all?

This isn't Melo,Rose and Noah. All players with significant warts that we'd be signing. It would be 3 of the most well rounded stars we may have ever assembled.

Say we add George (only guy that's reasonable on that list of yours)

We'd have to spend roughly 30 mil per on him

Frank
Timmy/Dotson
George/LFT
KP
Willy

So we have 20 million to build a bench. That's enough for two solid bench players, which would give us a total of 8 rotation level players (9 if you count LFT which, lol). Plus that's assuming Willy is starter level which honestly he isn't. Then you'd need a starter level big man, which will cost 20 million, so there goes your bench. We'd have Dotson, LFT, Willy, and a bunch of vet mins off the bench

That team maybe makes the finals, but isn't good enough to be a championship team. Warriors wreck us. Plus, again, we'd have 15 million in dead salary just sitting around

I know New Yorkers hate the word "patience" but come on. We have something good brewing, don't f*ck with it


Thanks for the analysis. I think you are on to something.


So you believe/agree that with just adding George and some tweaking this team could make the finals. If that's the case, you don't think LeBron could see that too? Why wouldn't LeBron want to come here to team up with the Uni Corn and another big 2 way FA signing like George or Cousins. LeBron does not have elite 2 way players (O and D) on the Cavs. He would with here and likely a more well rounded bunch of role players and bench.

If you look at the spreadsheet in the opening post , we could keep a pretty good core while opening up space.

For instance, OQuinn and-or Kanter could opt out and be resigned while going over the cap.
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Re: Looking ahead: Possible Cap Space for 2018 Free Agency 

Post#31 » by Deeeez Knicks » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:23 pm

KnixinSix wrote:Image


If this team keeps this up, we suddenly will be a very attractive option for some of the top FAs this offseason.

According to two of the scenarios I listed in the above spreadsheet the could conceivably create room for 1 and maybe even 2 max contracts. The numbers are pretty close and I assumed a 5 million increase to the cap (which mirrors the increase we saw coming into this season).

Teams that generally win championships in today's NBA have most of these main elements:

1.At least 2 of the top 15-20 players in the NBA
2.A very strong role player core to complement the star players which consists of most or all of the following:
-strong rebounder to do the dirty work
-One or more marksman 3 and D players
-Defenders who can shut down any of the 5 positions on the court either off the bench or as one of your star players
3. A very good offensive ball movement system

With KP's emergence, this team has all those elements except for the second superstar. And I believe if they can work something out with OQuinn and/or Kanter opting out and then resigning them after signing their key outside FA they can keep one or both those players by going over the salary cap.


The cap holds are a little off (for example McDerms cap hold is almost $10mil, we have roster cap holds and our pick cap hold).

Overall i think we may need to hold off a season or 2 before spending big. The noah contract is a killer and not a fan of using the stretch. But guess we'll have a better idea in the offseason.

theres is some info in this link on some of our cap holds:

https://medium.com/the-knicks-wall/the-new-york-knicks-live-salary-cap-tracker-f7e21e60de06
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Re: Looking ahead: Possible Cap Space for 2018 Free Agency 

Post#32 » by dakomish23 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:24 pm

Pair Doncic with Frank and KP.
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blueNorange wrote:good thing knicks have kanter because willy looking pedestrian af
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Re: Looking ahead: Possible Cap Space for 2018 Free Agency 

Post#33 » by KnixinSix » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:27 pm

dakomish23 wrote:Pair Doncic with Frank and KP.


The chances of Doncic even if we play .500 ball the rest of the way are very, very slim.
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Re: Looking ahead: Possible Cap Space for 2018 Free Agency 

Post#34 » by Knicksfan20 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:29 pm

Man I would do just about anything to pair up KP with Myles Turner.

If we can somehow move Kanter and Willy and get Turner, that would be great.

Kanter and Beasley to Cleveland
Willy ,Osman, knicks 2019 first (top 3 or 5 protection, 2019 unprotected ) Cleveland’s first to Indy

Knicks get Turner ,Shumpert.

Small Assets and a picks goes to Indy.
Cleveland gets an upgrade and starting quality big.
Add whatever contracts to make it work

Turner/Oquinn/Noah
Kp/Lance/Oquinn
McDermott/Lee/Dotson
Hardaway/Lee/Dotson
Frank/Burke/Jack

Team moving forward. Will have some cap space coming up. Would like to keep Courtney Lee and Oquinn, but they also have good value as vets.
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Re: Looking ahead: Possible Cap Space for 2018 Free Agency 

Post#35 » by KnixinSix » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:38 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:
KnixinSix wrote:Image


If this team keeps this up, we suddenly will be a very attractive option for some of the top FAs this offseason.

According to two of the scenarios I listed in the above spreadsheet the could conceivably create room for 1 and maybe even 2 max contracts. The numbers are pretty close and I assumed a 5 million increase to the cap (which mirrors the increase we saw coming into this season).

Teams that generally win championships in today's NBA have most of these main elements:

1.At least 2 of the top 15-20 players in the NBA
2.A very strong role player core to complement the star players which consists of most or all of the following:
-strong rebounder to do the dirty work
-One or more marksman 3 and D players
-Defenders who can shut down any of the 5 positions on the court either off the bench or as one of your star players
3. A very good offensive ball movement system

With KP's emergence, this team has all those elements except for the second superstar. And I believe if they can work something out with OQuinn and/or Kanter opting out and then resigning them after signing their key outside FA they can keep one or both those players by going over the salary cap.


The cap holds are a little off (for example McDerms cap hold is almost $10mil, we have roster cap holds and our pick cap hold).

Overall i think we may need to hold off a season or 2 before spending big. The noah contract is a killer and not a fan of using the stretch. But guess we'll have a better idea in the offseason.

theres is some info in this link on some of our cap holds:

https://medium.com/the-knicks-wall/the-new-york-knicks-live-salary-cap-tracker-f7e21e60de06


Thanks for the link. If we use scenario 2 in above list: Kanter and Oquinn opt out and then one or both resigned AFTER signing outside FAs. Stretch Noah, Baker, trade Lee. We would still have significant space
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Re: Looking ahead: Possible Cap Space for 2018 Free Agency 

Post#36 » by Deeeez Knicks » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:55 pm

KnixinSix wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:
KnixinSix wrote:Image


If this team keeps this up, we suddenly will be a very attractive option for some of the top FAs this offseason.

According to two of the scenarios I listed in the above spreadsheet the could conceivably create room for 1 and maybe even 2 max contracts. The numbers are pretty close and I assumed a 5 million increase to the cap (which mirrors the increase we saw coming into this season).

Teams that generally win championships in today's NBA have most of these main elements:

1.At least 2 of the top 15-20 players in the NBA
2.A very strong role player core to complement the star players which consists of most or all of the following:
-strong rebounder to do the dirty work
-One or more marksman 3 and D players
-Defenders who can shut down any of the 5 positions on the court either off the bench or as one of your star players
3. A very good offensive ball movement system

With KP's emergence, this team has all those elements except for the second superstar. And I believe if they can work something out with OQuinn and/or Kanter opting out and then resigning them after signing their key outside FA they can keep one or both those players by going over the salary cap.


The cap holds are a little off (for example McDerms cap hold is almost $10mil, we have roster cap holds and our pick cap hold).

Overall i think we may need to hold off a season or 2 before spending big. The noah contract is a killer and not a fan of using the stretch. But guess we'll have a better idea in the offseason.

theres is some info in this link on some of our cap holds:

https://medium.com/the-knicks-wall/the-new-york-knicks-live-salary-cap-tracker-f7e21e60de06


Thanks for the link. If we use scenario 2 in above list: Kanter and Oquinn opt out and then one or both resigned AFTER signing outside FAs. Stretch Noah, Baker, trade Lee. We would still have significant space


Kanters cap hold would still be pretty significant. If he opts out i would let him walk, and replace him with Willy (w koq starting).

You are correct that we could have a lot of cap space. Just depends if we can sign someone worth while.
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Re: Looking ahead: Possible Cap Space for 2018 Free Agency 

Post#37 » by KnixinSix » Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:18 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:
KnixinSix wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:
The cap holds are a little off (for example McDerms cap hold is almost $10mil, we have roster cap holds and our pick cap hold).

Overall i think we may need to hold off a season or 2 before spending big. The noah contract is a killer and not a fan of using the stretch. But guess we'll have a better idea in the offseason.

theres is some info in this link on some of our cap holds:

https://medium.com/the-knicks-wall/the-new-york-knicks-live-salary-cap-tracker-f7e21e60de06


Thanks for the link. If we use scenario 2 in above list: Kanter and Oquinn opt out and then one or both resigned AFTER signing outside FAs. Stretch Noah, Baker, trade Lee. We would still have significant space


Kanters cap hold would still be pretty significant. If he opts out i would let him walk, and replace him with Willy (w koq starting).

You are correct that we could have a lot of cap space. Just depends if we can sign someone worth while.


Yes. I just believe our time may have finally arrived to be an attractive destination to play again. A good system/coach, a more unified F.O. , a pretty solid bench, and a top 5 do it all 7'3 superstar player to play alongside. We'll see how it plays out but early indications are promising.
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Re: Looking ahead: Possible Cap Space for 2018 Free Agency 

Post#38 » by Bklyn&company » Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:39 pm

....Knick Fan since 1985.... I have no faith in the Knicks doing anything right when it come to the salary cap.... period.....

Current ex... Noah, THjr, Baker.... I rest my case
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Re: Looking ahead: Possible Cap Space for 2018 Free Agency 

Post#39 » by Red Vines » Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:29 pm

We won't go after a big name free agent because we're building around KP on a different timeline. My only concern is someone offering McDermott a Tim Jr. type deal which we shouldn't really match. I'd hate to lose him for nothing.
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Re: Looking ahead: Possible Cap Space for 2018 Free Agency 

Post#40 » by spree8 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:36 pm

I'd rather take on Deng's contract w/ that cap space in order to get Ingram... let the Lakers have those older stars and keep them out West.
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