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Looking ahead: Possible Cap Space for 2018 Free Agency

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Re: Looking ahead: Possible Cap Space for 2018 Free Agency 

Post#61 » by Lord Commander » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:05 pm

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Re: Looking ahead: Possible Cap Space for 2018 Free Agency 

Post#62 » by Ray Williams » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:06 pm

Jeffrey wrote:I would put a pretty penny on a guy like Avery Bradley. 2-way player, not looking to be the 1st option, hit almost 40% on 3s.


I’ve said the same thing, I think he’d fit in perfectly with this core.
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Re: Looking ahead: Possible Cap Space for 2018 Free Agency 

Post#63 » by CoolKids » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:10 pm

Sark wrote:
KnixinSix wrote:
Sark wrote:Knicks shouldn't be looking to add players drafted in the early 2000s in 2018. Keep building our core organically. We'll get to where we want to be if we do it the right way. Blowing our load on old players is what doomed this team for the past 2 decades.


The caliber of player we are talking is totally different than what we have added in years past. There is a reason LeBron has went to like 6 straight finals. This isn't Derek Rose, Carmelo Anthony, Antonio MacDyss, Stoudemire etc.

No matter how much we root against Lebron, he is one of the best players of all time. You add LeBron to the current KP with keeping some of our key core that's a Finals team in the East potentially capable of beating the top West team.



LeBron is 33 next month. He's on the way down. This year and maybe next (probably not)is his window. We have too many other holes to fill to go after a big fish.

And none of these guys are coming here anyway. This is a pipe dream.


Yea on the way down averaging 29 9 and 7 shooting 59% from the field. Lebron is still the best player in the league. That being said no we are not getting him and Im fine with that.
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Re: Looking ahead: Possible Cap Space for 2018 Free Agency 

Post#64 » by CharlesOakley » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:23 pm

Just STOP with the LeBron nonsense. You guys want to tie up a bunch of money for a 33-year-old man-baby? You don't build a dynasty by signing players on the way down. We just watched Melo fall off the last couple of years and you guys want to do it all again?

Of the LeBron lovers, who honestly believe he is capable of playing second fiddle? I just don't see this help build culture, I don't see it helping in the locker room, I don't see it making KP happy and I don't see this helping the development of our young core.
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Re: Looking ahead: Possible Cap Space for 2018 Free Agency 

Post#65 » by Dr. Detfink » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:25 pm

The only free agent that whets my whistle is, Avery Bradley...alongside Frank Nkiltina which would give the Knicks one of the BEST defensive and passing back courts in the league.
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Re: Looking ahead: Possible Cap Space for 2018 Free Agency 

Post#66 » by HarthorneWingo » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:41 pm

Lord Commander wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:The entire banana boat crew can suck my dick.


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Dayum. They’d suck the life out of me. Ok, I take it back.
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Re: Looking ahead: Possible Cap Space for 2018 Free Agency 

Post#67 » by sol537 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:50 pm

Dr. Detfink wrote:The only free agent that whets my whistle is, Avery Bradley...alongside Frank Nkiltina which would give the Knicks one of the BEST defensive and passing back courts in the league.


I'd like that.

And move Lee in a trade; THjr to the 6th man role where he would likely excel.

Use the draft to get a SF who has defensive beast potential like KP + Frank.
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Re: Looking ahead: Possible Cap Space for 2018 Free Agency 

Post#68 » by Apples » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:51 pm

CharlesOakley wrote:Just STOP with the LeBron nonsense. You guys want to tie up a bunch of money for aw 33-year-old man-baby? You don't build a dynasty by signing players on the way down. We just watched Melo fall off the last couple of years and you guys want to do it all again?

Of the LeBron lovers, who honestly believe he is capable of playing second fiddle? I just don't see this help build culture, I don't see it helping in the locker room, I don't see it making KP happy and I don't see this helping the development of our young core.


With all deep playoff runs and minutes, his legs/body are more of 35 y/o.
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Re: Looking ahead: Possible Cap Space for 2018 Free Agency 

Post#69 » by K-DOT » Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:16 pm

Even at the most we could free up, ~50 million, isn't actually that much now

Any one of the guys OP mentioned will cost at least 30, and ain't nobody taking a pay cut to come here

Then, yeah we'd have a pretty good starting lineup, but whoever we get is gonna be 7 years older than KP, and 10 years older than Frank and our 1st this year. Plus, we'd have no bench depth, and 20 million isn't enough to build a bench anymore

Adding star power via free agency isn't generally speaking how teams win championships. Durant going to GS was an anomaly, and the Heatles only worked cause they had the best player of this generation plus 2 star players. We wouldn't have anything close to the Miami big 3

Look at the Spurs, the only star players they've gotten in FA are LMA and Richard Jefferson, both of which were pretty big flops. Use cap to sign role players, use the draft to get star players
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Re: Looking ahead: Possible Cap Space for 2018 Free Agency 

Post#70 » by PeoplesChamp » Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:33 pm

Zingod wrote:https://www.theringer.com/platform/amp/nba/2017/11/13/16644278/lebron-james-kristaps-porzingis-knicks
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Re: Looking ahead: Possible Cap Space for 2018 Free Agency 

Post#71 » by KnixinSix » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:06 pm

bigtimeRC3 wrote:I'd rather build the team through the draft. Its always bad to sign free agents. Carmelo trade in hindsight was bad because the team wasted their assets and the remaining prime years of Carmelo . Even then , his prime was done in 2013 . NBA players on average are good for 10 years. Getting free agents in their 8th and 9th years won't cut it. The team has flaws and is nowhere near elite.


If we can sign one of the top 2 way (offensively and defensively elite) NBA FAs you do it. This isn't like giving a max to Amare Stoutemire or Carmelo. We are talking guys that bring both O and D.

Do you think the front office would forego signing a Superstar if they could to build organically over the next 3-4 years and hope you fall into a star in the draft when you could be picking outside the top 10?

MSG is a money making business venture in the biggest city in the world. If we can get a star to pair with KP and create a frenzy for this team it will happen. $$$.
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Re: Looking ahead: Possible Cap Space for 2018 Free Agency 

Post#72 » by KnixinSix » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:11 pm

CoolKids wrote:
Sark wrote:
KnixinSix wrote:
The caliber of player we are talking is totally different than what we have added in years past. There is a reason LeBron has went to like 6 straight finals. This isn't Derek Rose, Carmelo Anthony, Antonio MacDyss, Stoudemire etc.

No matter how much we root against Lebron, he is one of the best players of all time. You add LeBron to the current KP with keeping some of our key core that's a Finals team in the East potentially capable of beating the top West team.



LeBron is 33 next month. He's on the way down. This year and maybe next (probably not)is his window. We have too many other holes to fill to go after a big fish.

And none of these guys are coming here anyway. This is a pipe dream.


Yea on the way down averaging 29 9 and 7 shooting 59% from the field. Lebron is still the best player in the league. That being said no we are not getting him and Im fine with that.


Finally an objective take. I understand the LeBron dislike but don't let emotion consume sound judgement.

Also Avery alongside KP won't win us a championship. LeBron and KP or even George,Cousins and KP have a much better shot.
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Re: Looking ahead: Possible Cap Space for 2018 Free Agency 

Post#73 » by seren » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:13 pm

Wow. Genius move stretching and waiving two high salary players keeping a cap hit five years into the future. And for what exactly? A two year run for Eastern Conference Finals if you are lucky to stay healthy. And most likely you will add additional old salary, trade picks to stay competitive. That is absurd to say the least.

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Re: Looking ahead: Possible Cap Space for 2018 Free Agency 

Post#74 » by KnixinSix » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:20 pm

K-DOT wrote:Even at the most we could free up, ~50 million, isn't actually that much now

Any one of the guys OP mentioned will cost at least 30, and ain't nobody taking a pay cut to come here

Then, yeah we'd have a pretty good starting lineup, but whoever we get is gonna be 7 years older than KP, and 10 years older than Frank and our 1st this year. Plus, we'd have no bench depth, and 20 million isn't enough to build a bench anymore

Adding star power via free agency isn't generally speaking how teams win championships. Durant going to GS was an anomaly, and the Heatles only worked cause they had the best player of this generation plus 2 star players. We wouldn't have anything close to the Miami big 3

Look at the Spurs, the only star players they've gotten in FA are LMA and Richard Jefferson, both of which were pretty big flops. Use cap to sign role players, use the draft to get star players


Since 2006 -10 out of 12 teams were 'Super' teams.
Ones which contained at least two 2 way superstars (elite players offensively and defensively).

The exception? The SA Spurs who have the Bill Belichek of Coaches in the NBA-Gregg Poppovich.
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Re: Looking ahead: Possible Cap Space for 2018 Free Agency 

Post#75 » by KnixinSix » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:25 pm

seren wrote:Wow. Genius move stretching and waiving two high salary players keeping a cap hit five years into the future. And for what exactly? A two year run for Eastern Conference Finals if you are lucky to stay healthy. And most likely you will add additional old salary, trade picks to stay competitive. That is absurd to say the least.

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It's an option presented simply if we are unable to make a trade. May only need to do 1 instead of both or see if Perry is creative enough to pull something off. Further the yearly cap increases help off set this.

If you beleive the move nets you a championship window you do it. You think Boston regrets bringing in KG and Allen to team with Peirce?
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Re: Looking ahead: Possible Cap Space for 2018 Free Agency 

Post#76 » by K-DOT » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:27 pm

KnixinSix wrote:
K-DOT wrote:Even at the most we could free up, ~50 million, isn't actually that much now

Any one of the guys OP mentioned will cost at least 30, and ain't nobody taking a pay cut to come here

Then, yeah we'd have a pretty good starting lineup, but whoever we get is gonna be 7 years older than KP, and 10 years older than Frank and our 1st this year. Plus, we'd have no bench depth, and 20 million isn't enough to build a bench anymore

Adding star power via free agency isn't generally speaking how teams win championships. Durant going to GS was an anomaly, and the Heatles only worked cause they had the best player of this generation plus 2 star players. We wouldn't have anything close to the Miami big 3

Look at the Spurs, the only star players they've gotten in FA are LMA and Richard Jefferson, both of which were pretty big flops. Use cap to sign role players, use the draft to get star players


Since 2006 -10 out of 12 teams were 'Super' teams.
Ones which contained at least two 2 way superstars (elite players offensively and defensively). And almost all these teams had 1 or more maxxed imported FAs.

The exception? The SA Spurs who have the Bill Belichek of Coaches in the NBA-Gregg Poppovich.

On the point of max FAs
07 - nope
08 - nope
09 - nope
10 - nope
11 - nope
12 - yep
13 - yep
14 - nope
15 - nope
16 - yep (caveat LeBron)
17 - yep

So that's 3 and a half out of 10. I might not be the best at math, but unless something changed, 4 out of 10 isn't "almost all"

I'm sure you'll find a technicality to allow you to move the goalposts though
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Re: RE: Re: Looking ahead: Possible Cap Space for 2018 Free Agency 

Post#77 » by seren » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:31 pm

KnixinSix wrote:
seren wrote:Wow. Genius move stretching and waiving two high salary players keeping a cap hit five years into the future. And for what exactly? A two year run for Eastern Conference Finals if you are lucky to stay healthy. And most likely you will add additional old salary, trade picks to stay competitive. That is absurd to say the least.

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It's an option presented simply if we are unable to make a trade. May only need to do 1 instead of both or see if Perry is creative enough to pull something off. Further the yearly cap increases help off set this.

There are no big yearly cap increases anymore. TV contract is already signed. That 40 million cap you calculated will get you one Lebron James if he is willing to come to a practically stripped out team and minimum players. Lebron said he ain't taking paycuts anymore. You can't keep anybody. It will be KP/Frank/Lebron and bunch of minimum level players. Then the team will proceed to trade future picks to put a roster around them stripping future for essentially a two year run to Eastern finals.

Bad bad idea. Even if I would be willing to do all those waiving and stretching, I would use the money to go after a much younger player. Not Lebron.

Better yet. Let us continue to use our own picks, sign young players and build around KP.

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Re: Looking ahead: Possible Cap Space for 2018 Free Agency 

Post#78 » by KnixinSix » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:35 pm

K-DOT wrote:
KnixinSix wrote:
K-DOT wrote:Even at the most we could free up, ~50 million, isn't actually that much now

Any one of the guys OP mentioned will cost at least 30, and ain't nobody taking a pay cut to come here

Then, yeah we'd have a pretty good starting lineup, but whoever we get is gonna be 7 years older than KP, and 10 years older than Frank and our 1st this year. Plus, we'd have no bench depth, and 20 million isn't enough to build a bench anymore

Adding star power via free agency isn't generally speaking how teams win championships. Durant going to GS was an anomaly, and the Heatles only worked cause they had the best player of this generation plus 2 star players. We wouldn't have anything close to the Miami big 3

Look at the Spurs, the only star players they've gotten in FA are LMA and Richard Jefferson, both of which were pretty big flops. Use cap to sign role players, use the draft to get star players


Since 2006 -10 out of 12 teams were 'Super' teams.
Ones which contained at least two 2 way superstars (elite players offensively and defensively). And almost all these teams had 1 or more maxxed imported FAs.

The exception? The SA Spurs who have the Bill Belichek of Coaches in the NBA-Gregg Poppovich.

On the point of max FAs
07 - nope
08 - nope
09 - nope
10 - nope
11 - nope
12 - yep
13 - yep
14 - nope
15 - nope
16 - yep (caveat LeBron)
17 - yep

So that's 3 and a half out of 10. I might not be the best at math, but unless something changed, 4 out of 10 isn't "almost all"

I'm sure you'll find a technicality to allow you to move the goalposts though



Sorry you sir are correct. I amended that statement from the previous post. However the rest of the argument still applies and makes a strong case for the higher percentage chance of getting a second elite 2 way star via FA vs.the draft (where if we play like we are we'll be picking mid draft)
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Re: RE: Re: Looking ahead: Possible Cap Space for 2018 Free Agency 

Post#79 » by KnixinSix » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:46 pm

seren wrote:
KnixinSix wrote:
seren wrote:Wow. Genius move stretching and waiving two high salary players keeping a cap hit five years into the future. And for what exactly? A two year run for Eastern Conference Finals if you are lucky to stay healthy. And most likely you will add additional old salary, trade picks to stay competitive. That is absurd to say the least.

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It's an option presented simply if we are unable to make a trade. May only need to do 1 instead of both or see if Perry is creative enough to pull something off. Further the yearly cap increases help off set this.

There are no big yearly cap increases anymore. TV contract is already signed. That 40 million cap you calculated will get you one Lebron James if he is willing to come to a practically stripped out team and minimum players. Lebron said he ain't taking paycuts anymore. You can't keep anybody. It will be KP/Frank/Lebron and bunch of minimum level players. Then the team will proceed to trade future picks to put a roster around them stripping future for essentially a two year run to Eastern finals.

Bad bad idea. Even if I would be willing to do all those waiving and stretching, I would use the money to go after a much younger player. Not Lebron.

Better yet. Let us continue to use our own picks, sign young players and build around KP.

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Does management pass on LeBron to pair with KP if they think he would come over? Or even not LeBron but perhaps George and Paul or Cousins?

I don't think the team would be as bereft of talent after those two guys either as you assert.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Looking ahead: Possible Cap Space for 2018 Free Agency 

Post#80 » by seren » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:59 pm

KnixinSix wrote:
seren wrote:
KnixinSix wrote:
It's an option presented simply if we are unable to make a trade. May only need to do 1 instead of both or see if Perry is creative enough to pull something off. Further the yearly cap increases help off set this.

There are no big yearly cap increases anymore. TV contract is already signed. That 40 million cap you calculated will get you one Lebron James if he is willing to come to a practically stripped out team and minimum players. Lebron said he ain't taking paycuts anymore. You can't keep anybody. It will be KP/Frank/Lebron and bunch of minimum level players. Then the team will proceed to trade future picks to put a roster around them stripping future for essentially a two year run to Eastern finals.

Bad bad idea. Even if I would be willing to do all those waiving and stretching, I would use the money to go after a much younger player. Not Lebron.

Better yet. Let us continue to use our own picks, sign young players and build around KP.

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Does management pass on LeBron to pair with KP if they think he would come over? Or even not LeBron but perhaps George and Paul or Cousins?

I don't think the team would be as bereft of talent after those two guys either as you assert.

I can't say what the management would do. All I can comment is it would be stupid to mortgage the future to bring any of those guys. Any waive and stretch move or trading future picks to open cap would be mortgaging the future.

Now if we had the cap space without mortgaging the future, that would be a different story. We don't. We shouldn't try to move heaven and Earth to open up space. In fact, I would go the other direction to help other teams to create space and collect draft picks and young players in the process.

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