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This isn't a playoff team

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Re: This isn't a playoff team 

Post#141 » by Synciere » Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:01 pm

According to ESPN, we're 9th (all rankings for the Eastern Conference only) in overall offense, 6th in overall defense, 6th in points differential, 5th in rebounding, and 9th in 3-pt shooting....

You can point to our home-heavy schedule, but as of right now, in record and in stats, we're playing like a playoff team.
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Re: This isn't a playoff team 

Post#142 » by dakomish23 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:54 pm

Cant discount how well KP has been playing. I’m somebody who projected his numbers to mirror Anthony Davis levels so overall I could see him at the same level. In the clutch he’s been insane though and that should taper some.

Read on Twitter
Dkillanyk4lyf wrote:Melo is the reason why we are in the mess we are in now. Acquiring him was the biggest mistake in knicks history.


blueNorange wrote:good thing knicks have kanter because willy looking pedestrian af
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Re: This isn't a playoff team 

Post#143 » by knuckles862 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:35 pm

With out luck we will probably end up 9th or 10th
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Re: This isn't a playoff team 

Post#144 » by Wolfgang630 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:37 pm

dakomish23 wrote:Cant discount how well KP has been playing. I’m somebody who projected his numbers to mirror Anthony Davis levels so overall I could see him at the same level. In the clutch he’s been insane though and that should taper some.

Read on Twitter

KP #3, but holy **** at that drop off after Irving lol
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Re: This isn't a playoff team 

Post#145 » by dakomish23 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:26 pm

Wolfgang630 wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:Cant discount how well KP has been playing. I’m somebody who projected his numbers to mirror Anthony Davis levels so overall I could see him at the same level. In the clutch he’s been insane though and that should taper some.

Read on Twitter

KP #3, but holy **** at that drop off after Irving lol


The primary reason why BOS has this streak going. Dude has been unreal.

I wonder if KP can keep this up this year. Down the line I think it will be the norm with some better talent around him (assuming we don’t screw this up). So gifted offensively.
Dkillanyk4lyf wrote:Melo is the reason why we are in the mess we are in now. Acquiring him was the biggest mistake in knicks history.


blueNorange wrote:good thing knicks have kanter because willy looking pedestrian af
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Re: This isn't a playoff team 

Post#146 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:28 pm

P&T has a nice article worth reading which discusses the following:

-“At what point in the season will the Knicks come to their senses about dropping out of the playoff hunt, flip the vets, and play the kids?”

-"Would you trade...Kyle O’Quinn, Willy Hernangomez and Chicago's 2nd-round pick for Nerlens Noel come December 15? Knowing you would have to also do some more salary cap jiujitsu in order to resign him next summer, ‘cause if he’s traded he loses his Bird rights?”

-“Please power rank the following sacks: Kristaps’ fluid-filled elbow sack, Santa’s gift sack, Goldman Sachs, Sacramento, Sacajawea, Johnny Sack, and this kangaroo nut sack sold as a coin purse.”

https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2017/11/22/16676730/thanksgiving-p-t-mailsack-pt-1-sense-centers-and-sacks
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Re: This isn't a playoff team 

Post#147 » by dakomish23 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:29 pm

Would folks here be fine with a season similar to what MIA had last year? 9th place finish,14th pick.

I’d rather sell the replaceable parts for assets, get another top pick (Doncic with Frank and KP :droop:), then fill in around the that core. Maybe even add one more late first in the mix unless we can pry away a young guy who’s coming off his rookie deal (Noel, Hood etc).
Dkillanyk4lyf wrote:Melo is the reason why we are in the mess we are in now. Acquiring him was the biggest mistake in knicks history.


blueNorange wrote:good thing knicks have kanter because willy looking pedestrian af
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Re: This isn't a playoff team 

Post#148 » by Wolfgang630 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:30 pm

What’s so great about Noel? He can’t even get playing time at Dallas. And he seriously looks like a stick figure.
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Re: This isn't a playoff team 

Post#149 » by dakomish23 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:36 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:P&T has a nice article worth reading which discusses the following:

-“At what point in the season will the Knicks come to their senses about dropping out of the playoff hunt, flip the vets, and play the kids?”

-"Would you trade...Kyle O’Quinn, Willy Hernangomez and Chicago's 2nd-round pick for Nerlens Noel come December 15? Knowing you would have to also do some more salary cap jiujitsu in order to resign him next summer, ‘cause if he’s traded he loses his Bird rights?”

-“Please power rank the following sacks: Kristaps’ fluid-filled elbow sack, Santa’s gift sack, Goldman Sachs, Sacramento, Sacajawea, Johnny Sack, and this kangaroo nut sack sold as a coin purse.”

https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2017/11/22/16676730/thanksgiving-p-t-mailsack-pt-1-sense-centers-and-sacks


Absolutely would do that deal, but I don’t think we’d even need to send that package for Noel. We could probably do KOQ and the other 2nd we’ll have this year (MIN probably).

I would also

- send Lee to NOP for Asik Jackson and a lottery protected 1st.
- send KOQ / MIN 2nd to BOS for Larkin, Nader and their 1st
- send LFT anywhere for a minor asset
- no one would want our vet min guys unless there’s an injury

Less wins now so higher pick
Assets for the future
Cap space for 2019 and beyond
Maximize the development of the youth!!!

I just posted about having a year similar to MIA did last year. I wouldn’t want that. It’s a feel good story but if you end up signing some of our role players long term it lowers our long term ceiling.

We have a special player in KP, Frank projects to be good and the top of this class is loaded. We can set up ourselves lovely for the next decade +.
Dkillanyk4lyf wrote:Melo is the reason why we are in the mess we are in now. Acquiring him was the biggest mistake in knicks history.


blueNorange wrote:good thing knicks have kanter because willy looking pedestrian af
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Re: This isn't a playoff team 

Post#150 » by god shammgod » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:37 pm

dakomish23 wrote:Would folks here be fine with a season similar to what MIA had last year? 9th place finish,14th pick.

I’d rather sell the replaceable parts for assets, get another top pick (Doncic with Frank and KP :droop:), then fill in around the that core. Maybe even add one more late first in the mix unless we can pry away a young guy who’s coming off his rookie deal (Noel, Hood etc).


i wouldn't be happy, but it might be better than making the playoffs actually. because we all know that once we head to the playoffs there will be no going back. moves will be made with winning as the priority over development. playing time is already being determined by our best chance to win. if the knicks don't sell the vets and get another top pick this year, it probably won't happen for a long time. too much success early might hinder the long term chances of competing.
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Re: This isn't a playoff team 

Post#151 » by isiah_thomas » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:42 pm

Noel is the type of the big who could rotate on the perimeter and defend stretch fours and leaves KP closer to the rim. What type of contract is he looking for though?
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Re: This isn't a playoff team 

Post#152 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:44 pm

god shammgod wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:Would folks here be fine with a season similar to what MIA had last year? 9th place finish,14th pick.

I’d rather sell the replaceable parts for assets, get another top pick (Doncic with Frank and KP :droop:), then fill in around the that core. Maybe even add one more late first in the mix unless we can pry away a young guy who’s coming off his rookie deal (Noel, Hood etc).


i wouldn't be happy, but it might be better than making the playoffs actually. because we all know that once we head to the playoffs there will be no going back. moves will be made with winning as the priority over development. playing time is already being determined by our best chance to win. if the knicks don't sell the vets and get another top pick this year, it probably won't happen for a long time. too much success early might hinder the long term chances of competing.


I understand why you would think that but maybe Mills/Perry now know better. If we made a February deal, I would hope that it would not just be a shortsighted move to win now at all costs and that it would also be a move consistent with the long-term goals of the team. We're not ready to compete with the Celtics or the Cavs this year anyhow.

Maybe the FO just wants us to get our playoff feet wet just to the players a taste of the playoffs for the following year. However, I am not suggesting that they become feet lickers. Just so we're clear.
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Re: This isn't a playoff team 

Post#153 » by dakomish23 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:47 pm

Wolfgang630 wrote:What’s so great about Noel? He can’t even get playing time at Dallas. And he seriously looks like a stick figure.


To answer Wolf:

isiah_thomas wrote:Noel is the type of the big who could rotate on the perimeter and defend stretch fours and leaves KP closer to the rim. What type of contract is he looking for though?


IT - he could also rotate over to protect the rim well if KP is pulled out of the paint & if he is paired with Kanter / WHG (one of these guys will be here long term).

Getting a 3rd big who can play with either C And next to KP well, who’s also still young (will only be 24 next year) would be awesome team building IMO. Maybe they get that guy in the draft if we crater.
Dkillanyk4lyf wrote:Melo is the reason why we are in the mess we are in now. Acquiring him was the biggest mistake in knicks history.


blueNorange wrote:good thing knicks have kanter because willy looking pedestrian af
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Re: This isn't a playoff team 

Post#154 » by dakomish23 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:48 pm

god shammgod wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:Would folks here be fine with a season similar to what MIA had last year? 9th place finish,14th pick.

I’d rather sell the replaceable parts for assets, get another top pick (Doncic with Frank and KP :droop:), then fill in around the that core. Maybe even add one more late first in the mix unless we can pry away a young guy who’s coming off his rookie deal (Noel, Hood etc).


i wouldn't be happy, but it might be better than making the playoffs actually. because we all know that once we head to the playoffs there will be no going back. moves will be made with winning as the priority over development. playing time is already being determined by our best chance to win. if the knicks don't sell the vets and get another top pick this year, it probably won't happen for a long time. too much success early might hinder the long term chances of competing.


Yep and place a lower ceiling than what we should be aiming for with a talent like KP.

Do it right Perry and we could be a contender for a decade.
Dkillanyk4lyf wrote:Melo is the reason why we are in the mess we are in now. Acquiring him was the biggest mistake in knicks history.


blueNorange wrote:good thing knicks have kanter because willy looking pedestrian af
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Re: This isn't a playoff team 

Post#155 » by dakomish23 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:50 pm

Frank Melton Baker
THJ Dotson
Doncic MCD
Noel
KP WHG KOQ

I would be thrilled if that was our roster next year.
Dkillanyk4lyf wrote:Melo is the reason why we are in the mess we are in now. Acquiring him was the biggest mistake in knicks history.


blueNorange wrote:good thing knicks have kanter because willy looking pedestrian af
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Re: This isn't a playoff team 

Post#156 » by Wolfgang630 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:05 pm

dakomish23 wrote:
Wolfgang630 wrote:What’s so great about Noel? He can’t even get playing time at Dallas. And he seriously looks like a stick figure.


To answer Wolf:

isiah_thomas wrote:Noel is the type of the big who could rotate on the perimeter and defend stretch fours and leaves KP closer to the rim. What type of contract is he looking for though?


IT - he could also rotate over to protect the rim well if KP is pulled out of the paint & if he is paired with Kanter / WHG (one of these guys will be here long term).

Getting a 3rd big who can play with either C And next to KP well, who’s also still young (will only be 24 next year) would be awesome team building IMO. Maybe they get that guy in the draft if we crater.


Yeah hoe much money is he going to want? He turned down a big offer from the Mavs. I hope he knows he ain’t getting paid that kind of money here. He needs to prove himself.
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Re: This isn't a playoff team 

Post#157 » by Are We Ther Yet » Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:04 am

dakomish23 wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:Would folks here be fine with a season similar to what MIA had last year? 9th place finish,14th pick.

I’d rather sell the replaceable parts for assets, get another top pick (Doncic with Frank and KP :droop:), then fill in around the that core. Maybe even add one more late first in the mix unless we can pry away a young guy who’s coming off his rookie deal (Noel, Hood etc).


i wouldn't be happy, but it might be better than making the playoffs actually. because we all know that once we head to the playoffs there will be no going back. moves will be made with winning as the priority over development. playing time is already being determined by our best chance to win. if the knicks don't sell the vets and get another top pick this year, it probably won't happen for a long time. too much success early might hinder the long term chances of competing.


Yep and place a lower ceiling than what we should be aiming for with a talent like KP.

Do it right Perry and we could be a contender for a decade.


The Melo trade seriously derailed the tank. We all expected a long losing season. Mouth watering over one more high lottery pick. Doncic/Bagley/Porter etc. I'm not seeing it if they stay healthy.

It's still early. If we are still around/above .500 near the deadline, I don't see them trading away the team to tank. They may make trades to try to improve, if possible.

The 9th spot vs playoff team is a good question. Will they become a victim of early success? Are we better off missing the playoffs? What direction will they go next summer? Slow and steady or uh-oh...win now moves?

As fans we want the tank. I'm not getting into the odds debate again. We need to nail this pick either way. If the kids are propelling this team to wins and playoffs...that's a good thing. If it all falls apart, we have draft pickS to ease the pain. That's something we are just not used to as fans. This is the 1st time we have had B2B 1st rd picks in as long as I can remember. Just nail the pick. We're closer to a playoff team than a tank team. Thank or hate the Melo trade for that. I'm enjoying the wins.
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Re: This isn't a playoff team 

Post#158 » by blanko » Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:31 am

dakomish23 wrote:
Wolfgang630 wrote:What’s so great about Noel? He can’t even get playing time at Dallas. And he seriously looks like a stick figure.


To answer Wolf:

isiah_thomas wrote:Noel is the type of the big who could rotate on the perimeter and defend stretch fours and leaves KP closer to the rim. What type of contract is he looking for though?


IT - he could also rotate over to protect the rim well if KP is pulled out of the paint & if he is paired with Kanter / WHG (one of these guys will be here long term).

Getting a 3rd big who can play with either C And next to KP well, who’s also still young (will only be 24 next year) would be awesome team building IMO. Maybe they get that guy in the draft if we crater.

IMHO KP needs a kanter/willy type of bruising power forward to take the punishment.
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Re: This isn't a playoff team 

Post#159 » by mugzi » Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:50 am

Last marshmallow reference for at least a month from me but I just love how selfless and how much of a team these guys look like now as I always was saying it would be addition by subtraction. And then look at where he landed are they even in the playoff picture right now?

But this team just has to be decent on the road to make the playoffs they haven't looked good on the road so far but hopefully that'll change i used to be all about tank squad but now that this team is showing heart and the youth are developing and exuding confidence let's get the 7th seed and upset the Ledivas. Is there gonna be a huge difference between the 13th and 18th pick anyway??!
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Re: This isn't a playoff team 

Post#160 » by Clyde_Style » Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:04 am

mugzi wrote:Last marshmallow reference for at least a month from me but I just love how selfless and how much of a team these guys look like now as I always was saying it would be addition by subtraction. And then look at where he landed are they even in the playoff picture right now?

But this team just has to be decent on the road to make the playoffs they haven't looked good on the road so far but hopefully that'll change i used to be all about tank squad but now that this team is showing heart and the youth are developing and exuding confidence let's get the 7th seed and upset the Ledivas. Is there gonna be a huge difference between the 13th and 18th pick anyway??!


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