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Did the Knicks win the Melo trade?

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Re: Did the Knicks win the Melo trade? 

Post#61 » by Fat Kat » Sun Dec 3, 2017 1:47 pm

Juco24 wrote:The hate for Melo imo is unwarranted but it is what it is. The guy played hard in NY and carried us on many nights. I'll NEVER forget that 60 point game. But his time passed & I did want more than Kanter and Doug but I'm not ashamed to admit I was wrong. It indeed has been addition by subtraction (young man's game) and I'm glad the Knicks are doing well moreso than the fact that OKC is struggling as I'm a ride/die Knicks fan... not ride/die Melo fan. But I didn't see Melo as this cancer but that's me. Back to the trade... Kudos to Freckles for a job well done! Now go get us PG this off-season. :) ;)


I simply don't think that he worked hard, on or off the court. I saw a player that didn't stay in shape, physically pushed teammates into defensive switches, and broke plays whenever he pleased. He scoring prowess unfortunately didn't lead to many wins.
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Re: Did the Knicks win the Melo trade? 

Post#62 » by Jstarks3 » Sun Dec 3, 2017 1:56 pm

Kinglee wrote:You’re asking if the Knicks won the Melo trade 20
Games into the season, despite the fact that we are going to the lottery like we’ve been doing and OKC is most likely going to end up in the conference finals? We all know it takes time for teams to gel when they add stars and we all
Know we just loss to the **** Hawks. The replies in here are just like wow


since when do they give awards for making the conference finals?

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Re: Did the Knicks win the Melo trade? 

Post#63 » by BowlRips » Sun Dec 3, 2017 1:57 pm

Yes.
The fact that we got 2 players contributing on the court on the right side of age 25 that are not locked into long term commitments and what looks the the first pick in the 2nd round..
Who would've thought?
I never thought I'd like Kanter here but all he has done while he's here is play hard and show great team leadership. I didn't expect much from Dougie aside from his shooting prowess but he has proved to be a good team defender and a great slasher/off ball player.
It really is a pleasant surprise. Well played by the Knicks FO.
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Re: Did the Knicks win the Melo trade? 

Post#64 » by thebuzzardman » Sun Dec 3, 2017 2:04 pm

Just starting reading. This should go well.
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Re: Did the Knicks win the Melo trade? 

Post#65 » by thebuzzardman » Sun Dec 3, 2017 2:18 pm

Rare trade that was good for both teams.

Knicks need a Kanter type per Clyde_Style
Knicks got a good bench piece/borderline starter in McBuckets
Knicks got a high 2nd rounder and they'll need assets because they are still 2 or 3 rotation players away
Knicks got value for an aging but still productive player.

Here's why OKC didn't get fleeced
Melo is still decent
Presti gets a single large expiring contract in a year or two instead of having two players in that salary slot.

Ok, I think we came out ahead, but Presti gambles a little on it working out but doesn't exceed the timeframe of Kanter/McDermott contracts, which he was holding anyway, and I guess ultimately he wasn't wild about having long term.
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Re: Did the Knicks win the Melo trade? 

Post#66 » by thebuzzardman » Sun Dec 3, 2017 2:25 pm

Clyde_Style wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
So you're a closet poet. Let it out


That's about as close to a Shakespearian take on the trade as I've heard.


Fat Kat wrote all of Shakespeare's plays, not Christopher Marlowe FYI


Here's a Haiku:

Gone fat Carmelo
In Kanter beast and young Doug
Knicks fans rejoicing


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Re: Did the Knicks win the Melo trade? 

Post#67 » by Deeeez Knicks » Sun Dec 3, 2017 2:26 pm

It's possible for both teams to win or both teams to lose trades.

From the knicks perspective, we came out winners. I've really been surprised by Kanter and McDermott. We have the choice to keep them or open up some cap space. The 2nd rounder is a nice asset. KP has also stepped up in the lead role and as the clear alpha of the team.

Okc hasn't looked good so far, but they should be judged in the post season
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Re: Did the Knicks win the Melo trade? 

Post#68 » by thebuzzardman » Sun Dec 3, 2017 2:29 pm

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Re: Did the Knicks win the Melo trade? 

Post#69 » by nykballa2k4 » Sun Dec 3, 2017 2:33 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:Rare trade that was good for both teams.

Knicks need a Kanter type per Clyde_Style
Knicks got a good bench piece/borderline starter in McBuckets
Knicks got a high 2nd rounder and they'll need assets because they are still 2 or 3 rotation players away
Knicks got value for an aging but still productive player.

Here's why OKC didn't get fleeced
Melo is still decent
Presti gets a single large expiring contract in a year or two instead of having two players in that salary slot.

Ok, I think we came out ahead, but Presti gambles a little on it working out but doesn't exceed the timeframe of Kanter/McDermott contracts, which he was holding anyway, and I guess ultimately he wasn't wild about having long term.


I would like to add what I think was the biggest gain for OKC. The deal helped encourage Westbrook to re-sign. Sure we can debate the merits of that, but in the end that is pretty big for them..

As fans, we likely would have preferred no Hardaway signing and just wanted Douggie and Enes to simply go away so we can tank. The two guys, it turns out, can play which kinda hurts us long term. Hardaway has outperformed my expectations (he shows up in more than just points), but again he ties up 17% of our cap. A "Max" player gets 30%. With Noah already on the books, Kantar being a possible re-sign, Lee being present, Douggie being an extension candidate, our ability to get better is basically on ice.
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Re: Did the Knicks win the Melo trade? 

Post#70 » by thebuzzardman » Sun Dec 3, 2017 2:40 pm

nykballa2k4 wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:Rare trade that was good for both teams.

Knicks need a Kanter type per Clyde_Style
Knicks got a good bench piece/borderline starter in McBuckets
Knicks got a high 2nd rounder and they'll need assets because they are still 2 or 3 rotation players away
Knicks got value for an aging but still productive player.

Here's why OKC didn't get fleeced
Melo is still decent
Presti gets a single large expiring contract in a year or two instead of having two players in that salary slot.

Ok, I think we came out ahead, but Presti gambles a little on it working out but doesn't exceed the timeframe of Kanter/McDermott contracts, which he was holding anyway, and I guess ultimately he wasn't wild about having long term.


I would like to add what I think was the biggest gain for OKC. The deal helped encourage Westbrook to re-sign. Sure we can debate the merits of that, but in the end that is pretty big for them..

As fans, we likely would have preferred no Hardaway signing and just wanted Douggie and Enes to simply go away so we can tank. The two guys, it turns out, can play which kinda hurts us long term. Hardaway has outperformed my expectations (he shows up in more than just points), but again he ties up 17% of our cap. A "Max" player gets 30%. With Noah already on the books, Kantar being a possible re-sign, Lee being present, Douggie being an extension candidate, our ability to get better is basically on ice.


Possibly - about getting better.

This is a scenario where the pressure is on the GM and the GM better be good, experienced and some luck will help. I see the Knicks as being 2 pieces away from being a team that just makes the playoffs. Probably a creative SF and an energy stretch 4 for the bench. Anyway, without going into too much depth about that, it seems to me that one piece comes in the draft and the tricky part is how to free up space for the other. Most likely scenario is drafting a good SF (not sure Knicks get a guy good enough drafting at what feels like will be 15th in the draft) and energy backup PF I think can get gotten with CLee and/or KOQ's. Not a given though. Perry's going to have to earn his money. And even if the two moves above happen, he still has to work on cap space so a big name FA could think of signing when the Knicks are decent.
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Re: Did the Knicks win the Melo trade? 

Post#71 » by Jimmit79 » Sun Dec 3, 2017 2:46 pm

Knicks won the trade based on what we were expecting to get for melo which was a bad contract and low first round pick now in terms of that we got 2 rotational player and a low first round pick. OKC on other hand good luck with that baggage.
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Re: Did the Knicks win the Melo trade? 

Post#72 » by Bill Pidto » Sun Dec 3, 2017 2:49 pm

Fat Kat wrote:
Juco24 wrote:The hate for Melo imo is unwarranted but it is what it is. The guy played hard in NY and carried us on many nights. I'll NEVER forget that 60 point game. But his time passed & I did want more than Kanter and Doug but I'm not ashamed to admit I was wrong. It indeed has been addition by subtraction (young man's game) and I'm glad the Knicks are doing well moreso than the fact that OKC is struggling as I'm a ride/die Knicks fan... not ride/die Melo fan. But I didn't see Melo as this cancer but that's me. Back to the trade... Kudos to Freckles for a job well done! Now go get us PG this off-season. :) ;)


I simply don't think that he worked hard, on or off the court. I saw a player that didn't stay in shape, physically pushed teammates into defensive switches, and broke plays whenever he pleased. He scoring prowess unfortunately didn't lead to many wins.


Funny you mention all that. Because I saw the same exact thing.

Would hate to be OKC.

Love to be the Knicks.
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Re: Did the Knicks win the Melo trade? 

Post#73 » by Tornelyus » Sun Dec 3, 2017 2:50 pm

I don't believe OKC got fleeced in the deal. All-star's do not grow on trees. OKC had some players with potential with not so good deals for them (Oladipo, Kanter) or rookie deals that is not fit for their team (McDermott, Sabonis). CHI 2nd is overrated. Along with Celtics and Warriors, OKC is one of the few teams that doesn't have bad contracts. Simply they exchanged some parts that they did not need for Melo and rented PG. They will get better as Melo and PG figure out how to play next to RW. After game 21 last year (against Heat, funny coincidence, we won behind Melo's 35) we were 12-9. Things can change quickly.

As a Melo fan I hated the deal for us at first (and still think that he deserves better) but;
Kanter is not the worst defender on his team for first time in his career (thanks to Jack, Sessions and Tim). He plays hard, he plays efficiently. Thanks to Tim and Noah, his contract does not look horrible also. But nobody expected the spanish inquisition. If Willy had not declined that far, up to unplayable level, Kanter wouldn't shine so bright. I thought he was going to be 6th man at best. Glad that I was wrong so far.

McDermott impressed me more than Kanter so far. I thought he was a Novak type one-way player. He fits. He cuts hard. His shot selection is smart. He does his best to hold his ground on D. He even sets some screens. I guess nobody expected McDermott will end up like that (including our FO, we could have used TO but didn't). A definite keeper. I wish Jeff draws more plays for him, it is sad that last 3 attempt was in Atlanta game (in that 3 game interval Timmy was 3/11 from 3).

Imho, if we can extend McDermott cheap (less than 10 per year), Kanter continues to plays like this and close games next to KP, we are also winners in this trade. (And magically if that CHI 2nd helps to move Noah's contract, this might be the best trade since Spree).
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Re: Did the Knicks win the Melo trade? 

Post#74 » by Jimmit79 » Sun Dec 3, 2017 2:55 pm

I can't believe some people still say melo played hard for us and carried the team lol like wtf where you watching get your eyes checked melo fans.
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Re: Did the Knicks win the Melo trade? 

Post#75 » by BigShot Bojan » Sun Dec 3, 2017 2:56 pm

Tornelyus wrote:I don't believe OKC got fleeced in the deal. All-star's do not grow on trees. OKC had some players with potential with not so good deals for them (Oladipo, Kanter) or rookie deals that is not fit for their team (McDermott, Sabonis). CHI 2nd is overrated. Along with Celtics and Warriors, OKC is one of the few teams that doesn't have bad contracts. Simply they exchanged some parts that they did not need for Melo and rented PG. They will get better as Melo and PG figure out how to play next to RW. After game 21 last year (against Heat, funny coincidence, we won behind Melo's 35) we were 12-9. Things can change quickly.

As a Melo fan I hated the deal for us at first (and still think that he deserves better) but;
Kanter is not the worst defender on his team for first time in his career (thanks to Jack, Sessions and Tim). He plays hard, he plays efficiently. Thanks to Tim and Noah, his contract does not look horrible also. But nobody expected the spanish inquisition. If Willy had not declined that far, up to unplayable level, Kanter wouldn't shine so bright. I thought he was going to be 6th man at best. Glad that I was wrong so far.

McDermott impressed me more than Kanter so far. I thought he was a Novak type one-way player. He fits. He cuts hard. His shot selection is smart. He does his best to hold his ground on D. He even sets some screens. I guess nobody expected McDermott will end up like that (including our FO, we could have used TO but didn't). A definite keeper. I wish Jeff draws more plays for him, it is sad that last 3 attempt was in Atlanta game (in that 3 game interval Timmy was 3/11 from 3).

Imho, if we can extend McDermott cheap (less than 10 per year), Kanter continues to plays like this and close games next to KP, we are also winners in this trade. (And magically if that CHI 2nd helps to move Noah's contract, this might be the best trade since Spree).

Wonder how a rookie deal wouldn’t fit for a team .....also disregard for a second that Dipo gets 5 million less a year than Melo & still Dipo is a far more impactful player...Melo was an all star because of legacy, he is no where near all star caliber
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Re: Did the Knicks win the Melo trade? 

Post#76 » by nykballa2k4 » Sun Dec 3, 2017 3:03 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
nykballa2k4 wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:Rare trade that was good for both teams.

Knicks need a Kanter type per Clyde_Style
Knicks got a good bench piece/borderline starter in McBuckets
Knicks got a high 2nd rounder and they'll need assets because they are still 2 or 3 rotation players away
Knicks got value for an aging but still productive player.

Here's why OKC didn't get fleeced
Melo is still decent
Presti gets a single large expiring contract in a year or two instead of having two players in that salary slot.

Ok, I think we came out ahead, but Presti gambles a little on it working out but doesn't exceed the timeframe of Kanter/McDermott contracts, which he was holding anyway, and I guess ultimately he wasn't wild about having long term.


I would like to add what I think was the biggest gain for OKC. The deal helped encourage Westbrook to re-sign. Sure we can debate the merits of that, but in the end that is pretty big for them..

As fans, we likely would have preferred no Hardaway signing and just wanted Douggie and Enes to simply go away so we can tank. The two guys, it turns out, can play which kinda hurts us long term. Hardaway has outperformed my expectations (he shows up in more than just points), but again he ties up 17% of our cap. A "Max" player gets 30%. With Noah already on the books, Kantar being a possible re-sign, Lee being present, Douggie being an extension candidate, our ability to get better is basically on ice.


Possibly - about getting better.

This is a scenario where the pressure is on the GM and the GM better be good, experienced and some luck will help. I see the Knicks as being 2 pieces away from being a team that just makes the playoffs. Probably a creative SF and an energy stretch 4 for the bench. Anyway, without going into too much depth about that, it seems to me that one piece comes in the draft and the tricky part is how to free up space for the other. Most likely scenario is drafting a good SF (not sure Knicks get a guy good enough drafting at what feels like will be 15th in the draft) and energy backup PF I think can get gotten with CLee and/or KOQ's. Not a given though. Perry's going to have to earn his money. And even if the two moves above happen, he still has to work on cap space so a big name FA could think of signing when the Knicks are decent.


Once Phil signed Noah, we were put behind an 8-ball. The caveat was that "well we have good cheap depth with O'Quinn and WHG, so Noah's salary plus the 3 cheap salaries in KP, WHG, KOQ keep us at budget." Then Phil signed Lee, a bit below market value, but again putting some stress on our wallet. The bright side "well Lee has always been in trades, remains a commodity, good guy in the locker room." A year later, now Perry goes out and gets Hardy and Kantar... Phil paid a C and SG in 2016, so Perry says "hold my beer" and gets a younger pair. The short term prognosis is, as expected, better. Long term... we will have to wait and see.

You are saying that ideally PF depth and a playmaking 3 are our needs. Let's use our roster to make a "championship level team" in 2-3 years.
C: Kantar? WHG Noah(salary)
PF: KP, Lance(or your stretch 4 de jour)
SF: Hardaway, McDerm
SG: Lee, vacant
PG: Frank, Chasson Randle!

So to tie in, I think our biggest need, obviously, is in the back court. Hardaway at the 2 or 3 doesn't really matter. It would be great to have Greek at SF, but since that's not happening, we gotta consider who will be able to provide penetration, defense, and shooting ability. In 2020, we will certainly need more in the back court. If Frank is our Rondo with shooting ability, we are going to need a combo guard (a good one).

Klay Thompson will be a FA in 2 years. Warriors may choose to resign him or he may be too expensive. They have 60M invested in Curry and KD. Are they legally able to have 120M invested in their fearsome foursome? Green seems like just the swiss army knife you want, but he will be 30 when he is a FA and will likely be expecting to be paid as if his best years are ahead of him.

So if we find this years Kawhii Leonard, we are golden. If we don't then we are going to have a tough time getting any higher than a meaningless 3 seed who watches the Celtics Bucks rivalry unfold.
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Re: Did the Knicks win the Melo trade? 

Post#77 » by Juco24 » Sun Dec 3, 2017 3:04 pm

I truly believe there are some here who believe Ron Baker is a better player than Melo. Lol
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Re: Did the Knicks win the Melo trade? 

Post#78 » by Tornelyus » Sun Dec 3, 2017 3:06 pm

knicks85 wrote:
Tornelyus wrote:I don't believe OKC got fleeced in the deal. All-star's do not grow on trees. OKC had some players with potential with not so good deals for them (Oladipo, Kanter) or rookie deals that is not fit for their team (McDermott, Sabonis). CHI 2nd is overrated. Along with Celtics and Warriors, OKC is one of the few teams that doesn't have bad contracts. Simply they exchanged some parts that they did not need for Melo and rented PG. They will get better as Melo and PG figure out how to play next to RW. After game 21 last year (against Heat, funny coincidence, we won behind Melo's 35) we were 12-9. Things can change quickly.

Wonder how a rookie deal wouldn’t fit for a team .....also disregard for a second that Dipo gets 5 million less a year than Melo & still Dipo is a far more impactful player...Melo was an all star because of legacy, he is no where near all star caliber


It is not the deal, player did not fit.
McDermott did not got any touches, Oladipo had eFG lower than Roberson, Sabonis was not needed, Kanter played 45 minutes total in playoffs and was terrible. This year Oladipo may be more impactful but that was not the case when he was Thunder.
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Re: Did the Knicks win the Melo trade? 

Post#79 » by NoLayupRule » Sun Dec 3, 2017 3:19 pm

I wouldn't put too much hate on melo specifically

The pacers are feeling like they won the Paul George trade too

It's a poor fit at this point in okc

And we've added quality role players who are easier to incorporate


Still, yay for us!

And that 2nd rounder too!
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Re: Did the Knicks win the Melo trade? 

Post#80 » by BigShot Bojan » Sun Dec 3, 2017 3:32 pm

NoLayupRule wrote:I wouldn't put too much hate on melo specifically

The pacers are feeling like they won the Paul George trade too

It's a poor fit at this point in okc

And we've added quality role players who are easier to incorporate


Still, yay for us!

And that 2nd rounder too!

Sabonis is pretty freakin awesome as is Dipo...they won more than us...they are prob sick of winning
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