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PG: Borelando

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Re: PG: Borelando 

Post#201 » by WajaBawl » Mon Dec 4, 2017 5:48 pm

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Re: PG: Borelando 

Post#202 » by Oscirus » Mon Dec 4, 2017 5:57 pm

Are We Ther Yet wrote:
Oscirus wrote:
Are We Ther Yet wrote:
Stop it. I have given MULTIPLE examples of how the kids are being developed. Frank was injured and being eased into the rotation. That's a fact. Once he got in he's been playing.

Dotson has gotten several looks and has never won any minutes but, was given a chance to start...because he's being developed and opportunity presented itself. Another fact. Lee could have swung to his NATURAL position and MFLFT could have started.

Kanter was labeled trash by most here and everywhere...his game has improved and he's now a top center in the league. Worth mentioning.

You and everyone else acting like he's not developing these kids are dead wrong. Period. I have stated why several times.


and I've countered every single reason. If you want to act like Hornacek is the next popovich then be my guest but stop getting mad cuz people aren't wearing your rose colored glasses.

Several looks? Garbage time counts several looks now? He could've also given Dotson more then 22 minutes, but he didn't.

LMAO really laying it on thick with the Kanter stuff. Wow!


Danyean has played in 13 games. Billy. 14 Baker 6.

The other 5 guys 25 and under have played in 19 or more games and are 5 of the top 7 in mpg.

THAT'S DEVELOPING YOUTH. THAT'S WINNING/LOSING WITH YOUTH!

NOTHING you have said countered my points made. You were wrong every time and you're wrong now. Kanter improving is also called development.

Take the L and keep it moving bro. You're wrong.


Who cares how many games they're playing if they're doing it in garbage time? Are you going to seriously tell me that he's developing youth if the only time he's playing any of them is either out of necessity or in garbage time? You've gotta be **** with me.

Your arguments are so far off that you're desperately clinging to a player in his prime developing lmao. But yea I'm the one taking an l :roll:
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Re: PG: Borelando 

Post#203 » by mpharris36 » Mon Dec 4, 2017 6:05 pm

WajaBawl wrote:
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the knicks piece is actually well written. They are pretty spot on with our breakdown.
BAF Spurs:

C - Anthony Davis/Zach Collins/Georgios Papa
PF - Dragan Bender/Noah Vonleh/JMM
SF - Jaylen Brown/Bogdan Bogdanovic/Dahntay Jones
SG - Tim Hardaway Jr/Wayne Seldon/Tomas Satoransky
PG - Kris Dunn/Shabazz Napier/Fred VanVleet

$47 cap remaining
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Re: PG: Borelando 

Post#204 » by GONYK » Mon Dec 4, 2017 6:13 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
WajaBawl wrote:
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the knicks piece is actually well written. They are pretty spot on with our breakdown.


The breakdown is fine, but what does "tanking" even look like for this team outside of starting Frank over Jack?

Obviously, you move KOQ and Lee if a great deal presents itself, but the Knicks aren't going to have a firesale.
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Re: PG: Borelando 

Post#205 » by mpharris36 » Mon Dec 4, 2017 6:22 pm

GONYK wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
WajaBawl wrote:
Read on Twitter


the knicks piece is actually well written. They are pretty spot on with our breakdown.


The breakdown is fine, but what does "tanking" even look like for this team outside of starting Frank over Jack?

Obviously, you move KOQ and Lee if a great deal presents itself, but the Knicks aren't going to have a firesale.


the logic is there in terms of Lee/KOQ/Lance/Kanter should at least be on the trade block and sold to the highest bidder. But I agree it wont effect wins/losses as much as sitting KP for a longer point in time so he isn't injured long term.

For example our role players aren't good but they still took Orlando down the stretch with a starting lineup of Jack/Dotson/Lee/Beasley/Kanter so they are playing hard. You might need to sell off a few pieces and if you can get an extra 1st that will help us more down the road.

It probably isn't realistic to have a firesale but I do get the point that this team currently constructed isn't winning anything and since we don't have cap space coming to us, the best way to add big time talent is still through the draft...resting KP will do that.
BAF Spurs:

C - Anthony Davis/Zach Collins/Georgios Papa
PF - Dragan Bender/Noah Vonleh/JMM
SF - Jaylen Brown/Bogdan Bogdanovic/Dahntay Jones
SG - Tim Hardaway Jr/Wayne Seldon/Tomas Satoransky
PG - Kris Dunn/Shabazz Napier/Fred VanVleet

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Re: PG: Borelando 

Post#206 » by tleikheen » Mon Dec 4, 2017 6:28 pm

We have lottery talent! And we have picks and vets to move to get more talent! What player in the top of this draft is worth throwing away an entire season, completely blowing everything up, on the chance you'll actually get the right spot in the draft and get that player and he'll make the total difference to our future? That's an insane strategy!


There always someone in the fan base who wants to blow it all up.......Big Problem though ,Porzingas wants to win NOW. He doesn't want to wait on 19 yr old Ntilikina and draft another 19 yr old to grow up to start winning. He'll be 25/26 yrs old before they can contribute.
He has Kanter and Hardaway playing winning basketball NOW and he has a player playing his best basketball right now in Lee. Making the playoffs this year is a big deal to Porzingas,Kanter and Hardaway.Keeping Porzingas happy is more important than draft position. Making the playoffs ,playing at MSG,and playing with Porzingas is 3 good reasons for top FA"s to come to New York .
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Re: PG: Borelando 

Post#207 » by GONYK » Mon Dec 4, 2017 6:30 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
GONYK wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
the knicks piece is actually well written. They are pretty spot on with our breakdown.


The breakdown is fine, but what does "tanking" even look like for this team outside of starting Frank over Jack?

Obviously, you move KOQ and Lee if a great deal presents itself, but the Knicks aren't going to have a firesale.


the logic is there in terms of Lee/KOQ/Lance/Kanter should at least be on the trade block and sold to the highest bidder. But I agree it wont effect wins/losses as much as sitting KP for a longer point in time so he isn't injured long term.

For example our role players aren't good but they still took Orlando down the stretch with a starting lineup of Jack/Dotson/Lee/Beasley/Kanter so they are playing hard. You might need to sell off a few pieces and if you can get an extra 1st that will help us more down the road.

It probably isn't realistic to have a firesale but I do get the point that this team currently constructed isn't winning anything and since we don't have cap space coming to us, the best way to add big time talent is still through the draft...resting KP will do that.


Resting KP is really the only difference maker. I don't think we're getting picks for players on expiring deals like KOQ, nor do I think we pick up anything of value for Beasley, Jack, or Lance. Lee is the only real exception here, since he's cost controlled and playing so well.

Now, if KP legit needs to rest, then we should rest him. I sincerely doubt he's going to take healthy scratches though when he's establishing himself as a superstar in this league though.

We are sort of in an awkward position, where we are perfectly average as a team. Nothing will really push us towards action unless basically KP, THJ, and Kanter all go down, or someone comes to us with a major overpay for anyone not KP or Frank.
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Re: PG: Borelando 

Post#208 » by Iron Mantis » Mon Dec 4, 2017 7:25 pm

WajaBawl wrote:
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Landing a top prospect to partner with Hardaway, Ntilikina and Porzingis is even better, verging on necessary.


Ergo, the 2018 draft represents the Knicks' best opportunity at substantively beefing up their nucleus. And with so many teams around them bent on making the playoffs (Charlotte, Miami, Indiana, Washington), they should be sussing out trades for O'Quinn, Thomas and Courtney Lee that don't entail taking back long-term money. If Kanter has played his way into the "Movables" section, then not even he should be off limits.


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Re: PG: Borelando 

Post#209 » by Iron Mantis » Mon Dec 4, 2017 7:55 pm

tleikheen wrote:
We have lottery talent! And we have picks and vets to move to get more talent! What player in the top of this draft is worth throwing away an entire season, completely blowing everything up, on the chance you'll actually get the right spot in the draft and get that player and he'll make the total difference to our future? That's an insane strategy!


There always someone in the fan base who wants to blow it all up.......Big Problem though ,Porzingas wants to win NOW. He doesn't want to wait on 19 yr old Ntilikina and draft another 19 yr old to grow up to start winning. He'll be 25/26 yrs old before they can contribute.
He has Kanter and Hardaway playing winning basketball NOW and he has a player playing his best basketball right now in Lee. Making the playoffs this year is a big deal to Porzingas,Kanter and Hardaway.Keeping Porzingas happy is more important than draft position. Making the playoffs ,playing at MSG,and playing with Porzingas is 3 good reasons for top FA"s to come to New York .

You're funny. What free agent do the Knicks have the cap space to sign this summer?

Let's hear what free agent will be dashing to play with KP this summer if the Knicks make the 8th seed and get swept by the Celts. :lol: What sort of contract will the Knicks give them?

KP can't do squat but sit there and take it if the team tanks this year to get a young talent to add to the nucleus.
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Re: PG: Borelando 

Post#210 » by WajaBawl » Mon Dec 4, 2017 7:56 pm

Iron Mantis wrote:
WajaBawl wrote:
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Landing a top prospect to partner with Hardaway, Ntilikina and Porzingis is even better, verging on necessary.


Ergo, the 2018 draft represents the Knicks' best opportunity at substantively beefing up their nucleus. And with so many teams around them bent on making the playoffs (Charlotte, Miami, Indiana, Washington), they should be sussing out trades for O'Quinn, Thomas and Courtney Lee that don't entail taking back long-term money. If Kanter has played his way into the "Movables" section, then not even he should be off limits.


Image


Perfectly summarizes our situation. But people on this board wants us to make the playoffs carried by KP with a supporting cast of Jarret Jack, Courtney Lee, Kanter and KOQ, none of which are supposed to be included in our long-term vision for this team.
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Re: PG: Borelando 

Post#211 » by Iron Mantis » Mon Dec 4, 2017 7:57 pm

WajaBawl wrote:
Iron Mantis wrote:
WajaBawl wrote:
Read on Twitter


Landing a top prospect to partner with Hardaway, Ntilikina and Porzingis is even better, verging on necessary.


Ergo, the 2018 draft represents the Knicks' best opportunity at substantively beefing up their nucleus. And with so many teams around them bent on making the playoffs (Charlotte, Miami, Indiana, Washington), they should be sussing out trades for O'Quinn, Thomas and Courtney Lee that don't entail taking back long-term money. If Kanter has played his way into the "Movables" section, then not even he should be off limits.


Image


Perfectly summarizes our situation. But people on this board wants us to make the playoffs carried by KP with a supporting cast of Jarret Jack, Courtney Lee, Kanter and KOQ, none of which are supposed to be included in our long-term vision for this team.

I don't know what's so difficult to understand about something so simple.
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Re: PG: Borelando 

Post#212 » by IAmTheBest » Mon Dec 4, 2017 8:52 pm

as much as I want doncic, hardcore tanking is a pipe dream to be honest

the fact of the matter is that Porzingis is too talented for us to truly tank. you know damn well he's not going to sit out if he's healthy. The only way we have a solid shot at getting a top 5 or so pick is if Porzingis goes down with season ending injury, and to be honest, that's not something any knicks fan should want.

With Porzingis playing, we are always going to be in the dogfight for the 8th seed. The team is too talented otherwise. There is no way we can compete in a tank with true garbage teams like mavs, nets, bulls, hawks, magic, lakers, kings, grizzlies, and such. Even borderline teams like the bobcats and heat are worse than we are



Maybe the league will rig the draft lottery for us for once, instead of always screwing us over and dropping our position.
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Re: PG: Borelando 

Post#213 » by Iron Mantis » Mon Dec 4, 2017 9:48 pm

IAmTheBest wrote:as much as I want doncic, hardcore tanking is a pipe dream to be honest

the fact of the matter is that Porzingis is too talented for us to truly tank. you know damn well he's not going to sit out if he's healthy. The only way we have a solid shot at getting a top 5 or so pick is if Porzingis goes down with season ending injury, and to be honest, that's not something any knicks fan should want.

With Porzingis playing, we are always going to be in the dogfight for the 8th seed. The team is too talented otherwise. There is no way we can compete in a tank with true garbage teams like mavs, nets, bulls, hawks, magic, lakers, kings, grizzlies, and such. Even borderline teams like the bobcats and heat are worse than we are



Maybe the league will rig the draft lottery for us for once, instead of always screwing us over and dropping our position.

Knicks can get in the top 4. Kp is awesome but he's not Lebron. Timmy is hurt which sucks but presents a perfect tanking opportunity.

trade the vets while their value is high. Get young unproven players with potential and draft picks from teams looking to make a serious push.
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Re: PG: Borelando 

Post#214 » by dakomish23 » Mon Dec 4, 2017 9:51 pm

Iron Mantis wrote:
WajaBawl wrote:
Read on Twitter


Landing a top prospect to partner with Hardaway, Ntilikina and Porzingis is even better, verging on necessary.


Ergo, the 2018 draft represents the Knicks' best opportunity at substantively beefing up their nucleus. And with so many teams around them bent on making the playoffs (Charlotte, Miami, Indiana, Washington), they should be sussing out trades for O'Quinn, Thomas and Courtney Lee that don't entail taking back long-term money. If Kanter has played his way into the "Movables" section, then not even he should be off limits.


Image


Played his way into the movables section :lol:

He’s gotten better on D, though the only place to move was up.
Dkillanyk4lyf wrote:Melo is the reason why we are in the mess we are in now. Acquiring him was the biggest mistake in knicks history.


blueNorange wrote:good thing knicks have kanter because willy looking pedestrian af
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Re: PG: Borelando 

Post#215 » by dakomish23 » Mon Dec 4, 2017 9:57 pm

WajaBawl wrote:
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Frank Melton Baker
THJ Dotson
Doncic MCD
Noel
KP WHG KOQ

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Dkillanyk4lyf wrote:Melo is the reason why we are in the mess we are in now. Acquiring him was the biggest mistake in knicks history.


blueNorange wrote:good thing knicks have kanter because willy looking pedestrian af
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Re: PG: Borelando 

Post#216 » by HarthorneWingo » Mon Dec 4, 2017 10:12 pm

Iron Mantis wrote:
WajaBawl wrote:
Read on Twitter


Landing a top prospect to partner with Hardaway, Ntilikina and Porzingis is even better, verging on necessary.


Ergo, the 2018 draft represents the Knicks' best opportunity at substantively beefing up their nucleus. And with so many teams around them bent on making the playoffs (Charlotte, Miami, Indiana, Washington), they should be sussing out trades for O'Quinn, Thomas and Courtney Lee that don't entail taking back long-term money. If Kanter has played his way into the "Movables" section, then not even he should be off limits.


Image


Right. Have half the NBA tanking in December, one month after the season starts. Great idea. :noway:

We won't even begin to think about that until after the February trade deadline at the earliest unless KP suffers a serious inju.
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Re: PG: Borelando 

Post#217 » by IAmTheBest » Mon Dec 4, 2017 10:13 pm

Iron Mantis wrote:
IAmTheBest wrote:as much as I want doncic, hardcore tanking is a pipe dream to be honest

the fact of the matter is that Porzingis is too talented for us to truly tank. you know damn well he's not going to sit out if he's healthy. The only way we have a solid shot at getting a top 5 or so pick is if Porzingis goes down with season ending injury, and to be honest, that's not something any knicks fan should want.

With Porzingis playing, we are always going to be in the dogfight for the 8th seed. The team is too talented otherwise. There is no way we can compete in a tank with true garbage teams like mavs, nets, bulls, hawks, magic, lakers, kings, grizzlies, and such. Even borderline teams like the bobcats and heat are worse than we are



Maybe the league will rig the draft lottery for us for once, instead of always screwing us over and dropping our position.

Knicks can get in the top 4. Kp is awesome but he's not Lebron. Timmy is hurt which sucks but presents a perfect tanking opportunity.

trade the vets while their value is high. Get young unproven players with potential and draft picks from teams looking to make a serious push.


We arent just going to simply firesale the veterans the new front office just signed, who arent even that good to begin with. This isnt 2k lol.

The front office is against it, KP is against it, and Dolan is likely against it. If we were going to do that we wouldve done it during the offseason instead of signing jack, sessions, and beaseley.

The only that are even worth anything are Lee, OQuinn, and maybe Thomas. nobody is trading for Jack, Sessions, Noah, and Beasley lol

We have to come to terms with reality. The only guy who was willing to do that was sam hinkie and he's gone...was fired and is blacklisted by the league and his methods are actively crapped on by adam silver himself. Nobody is going to run an organization like a fan would. Perry, Hornacek, Porzingis are all out there playing to win. Dolan is investing to fill seats not field a team of KP + d leaguers.
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Re: PG: Borelando 

Post#218 » by MaseInYourFace » Mon Dec 4, 2017 10:14 pm

tleikheen wrote:
We have lottery talent! And we have picks and vets to move to get more talent! What player in the top of this draft is worth throwing away an entire season, completely blowing everything up, on the chance you'll actually get the right spot in the draft and get that player and he'll make the total difference to our future? That's an insane strategy!


There always someone in the fan base who wants to blow it all up.......Big Problem though ,Porzingas wants to win NOW. He doesn't want to wait on 19 yr old Ntilikina and draft another 19 yr old to grow up to start winning. He'll be 25/26 yrs old before they can contribute.
He has Kanter and Hardaway playing winning basketball NOW and he has a player playing his best basketball right now in Lee. Making the playoffs this year is a big deal to Porzingas,Kanter and Hardaway.Keeping Porzingas happy is more important than draft position. Making the playoffs ,playing at MSG,and playing with Porzingas is 3 good reasons for top FA"s to come to New York .


*Porzingis

KP can want the world but if he's not healthy enough to play it won't matter.
A new era or error?
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Re: PG: Borelando 

Post#219 » by HarthorneWingo » Mon Dec 4, 2017 10:17 pm

MaseInYourFace wrote:
tleikheen wrote:
We have lottery talent! And we have picks and vets to move to get more talent! What player in the top of this draft is worth throwing away an entire season, completely blowing everything up, on the chance you'll actually get the right spot in the draft and get that player and he'll make the total difference to our future? That's an insane strategy!


There always someone in the fan base who wants to blow it all up.......Big Problem though ,Porzingas wants to win NOW. He doesn't want to wait on 19 yr old Ntilikina and draft another 19 yr old to grow up to start winning. He'll be 25/26 yrs old before they can contribute.
He has Kanter and Hardaway playing winning basketball NOW and he has a player playing his best basketball right now in Lee. Making the playoffs this year is a big deal to Porzingas,Kanter and Hardaway.Keeping Porzingas happy is more important than draft position. Making the playoffs ,playing at MSG,and playing with Porzingas is 3 good reasons for top FA"s to come to New York .


*Porzingis

KP can want the world but if he's not healthy enough to play it won't matter.


And that's really the only way we tank. But, remember, he is ... The Lizard.
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Re: PG: Borelando 

Post#220 » by Are We Ther Yet » Mon Dec 4, 2017 11:37 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
Are We Ther Yet wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
I don't agree with this. The games WHG, Baker, and Dotson are playing are garbage time minutes that don't mean anything. None of those guys are playing consistent rotation minutes. Our young players shouldn't just be giving bigger roles because someone got injured.

The only 2 playrs on there 1st contract that get minutes are KP and Frank (and outside of a small stretch where he was finishing games) has been playing very restrictive minutes behind Jarret Jack who is a bum playing about 28 minutes a game which is unacceptable.

KP is really the only 1st contract player that gets major run on this team.

Sure Kanter and THjr deveopment is important since they are still youngish players..but they are still 2nd contract players making good $$$. The real player development needs to be in KP/Frank/WHG/Dotson in my humble opinion because when we are finally ready to make the jump those low cost players are what we will need to succeed.

Frank needs to cut into Jack minutes immediately, no reason that jack is playing 10 minutes a night more than Frank when Frank is already a more impactful player.


Baker has been hurt.
Billy hasn't earned minutes.
Dotson earned a START by playing in those same GT minutes....LESS minutes than all of them.
Frank has been playing 20mpg on avg minus the first 3 games. He has shown potential but, he's not ready to start. He's still gotten plenty of minutes and has been used in crunch time. That's developing a player.

Handing the starting minutes to players who haven't earned them over players like Jack/Sessions/KOQ is not developing them.

You guys expect him to play all of the kids all of the time and lose every game? That's not realistic or good for the development of the team.

Jeff has done a fine job balancing the team/player development. Do you guys think losing like we were when Sessions was running point is helpful to the team? It's not.


How has frank not earned more minutes than Jack when Frank is already better than Jack?

makes no sense. I'm not even talking about Franks defensive impact which is tenfold over Jack (biggest reason we fall into deep holes after 1st qtr is jack inability to defend). Care to comment on that or is Frank not ready?


Frank has had turnover and foul issues. He's been injured. He's been sick. He's not getting tossed to the lions. I agree he needs to start seeing more minutes but, he's been playing 20mpg. That's not bad. He isn't ready to start. He has struggled plenty this season.

The numbers don't lie. Jeff is playing the kids who earn it. He's developing the kids and they win/lose as a team. Facts. Why it is so impossible for people to use them when making a point is beyond me.

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