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Post game: No Papa Johns

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Re: Post game: No Papa Johns 

Post#241 » by treachery » Tue Dec 5, 2017 6:04 pm

BeagleBoss wrote:We should send Ntilikina to the G-League. He needs to play more and get some confidence. He plays so timid at times.


Exactly- his timidity is so aggravating. Just do something. Go for it. Attack the rim. Honestly, really concerning how incredibly passive he is. I'm all for growing the youth, and patience, but he plays so soft.
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Re: Post game: No Papa Johns 

Post#242 » by Jeff Van Gully » Tue Dec 5, 2017 6:07 pm

Red Vines wrote:
Iron Mantis wrote:
Red Vines wrote:Just need that can't-miss blue-chip prospect like Michael Beasley or Jahlil Okafor and we're set! Very simple process...

Just as there are picks that do not pan out...there are others picked before and shortly after those players you named that have panned out. So yes, drafting well is important.


The point is, at the moment, the Knicks best chance at adding young talent to their core is through the draft. The higher you draft, the more likely you will have impact players available to choose from.


And the more unsuccessful & chaotic your organization, the less chance you have of keeping & attracting young talent.


this is my main point.

it's not like a good team like san antonio lucking out and getting tim duncan. we're talking about a team that's bad staying bad enough to draft potential saviors who develop in losing cultures. i'm not suggesting drafting well isn't important or that the best players aren't at the top. i'm saying you have to have a true north as a ball club. suggesting being bad as a strategy is very dangerous.

of course, there's the underlying suggestion that everyone should be complicit in playing possum and throwing games, which is a non-starter.
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Re: Post game: No Papa Johns 

Post#243 » by GIMME_DATT » Tue Dec 5, 2017 6:12 pm

Knicksfan1992 wrote:Can't make judgments on this team when KP doesn't play/ isn't healthy. Having him makes the game easier for everyone else especially our guards... We're going to lose most games he doesn't play at a high level or doesn't play at all.

You can def make the judgment that the talent around him is trash. And the point guards are beyond awful.
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Re: Post game: No Papa Johns 

Post#244 » by GIMME_DATT » Tue Dec 5, 2017 6:20 pm

NowWHYcee7 wrote:Why are we so concerned that a 19 year old rookie PG is having some trouble with fouls?

Didn't KP have the same problem for 2 years?

Frank biggest issue is his lack of offense. He doesn't attack the rim or break down a defense. Idc about the fouls right now
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Re: Post game: No Papa Johns 

Post#245 » by Jeff Van Gully » Tue Dec 5, 2017 6:24 pm

dakomish23 wrote:
Jeff Van Gully wrote:
CrazyKnicks wrote:13th pick is not gonna cut it, we need to lose more!

Get a young stud next to KP and this team is good to go.


until that group sucks, and...

tank forever!!!


You think the “core” we have is enough to build around?


not suggesting that. but greatness has been started upon with less.

you know my question. where does the tank end? it's not like you can accumulate the 92 dream team over 12 years of demise.
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Re: Post game: No Papa Johns 

Post#246 » by DrKnick » Tue Dec 5, 2017 6:39 pm

No cheese to stretch this one...
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Re: Post game: No Papa Johns 

Post#247 » by dakomish23 » Tue Dec 5, 2017 6:55 pm

Jeff Van Gully wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
Jeff Van Gully wrote:
until that group sucks, and...

tank forever!!!


You think the “core” we have is enough to build around?


not suggesting that. but greatness has been started upon with less.

you know my question. where does the tank end? it's not like you can accumulate the 92 dream team over 12 years of demise.


For me personally, I’d probably be done with the sprint to the top of the lottery once we get one more stud. Definitely if we land Doncic.

Then I’d focus on adding high end role players. I think we have two of those guys already in THJ & either Kanter or WHG. Probably add one mor3 guy (Noel is my choice).

If we had traded for Mitchell I wouldn’t be as in on the tank this year.
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Re: Post game: No Papa Johns 

Post#248 » by Jeff Van Gully » Tue Dec 5, 2017 7:06 pm

dakomish23 wrote:
Jeff Van Gully wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
You think the “core” we have is enough to build around?


not suggesting that. but greatness has been started upon with less.

you know my question. where does the tank end? it's not like you can accumulate the 92 dream team over 12 years of demise.


For me personally, I’d probably be done with the sprint to the top of the lottery once we get one more stud. Definitely if we land Doncic.

Then I’d focus on adding high end role players. I think we have two of those guys already in THJ & either Kanter or WHG. Probably add one mor3 guy (Noel is my choice).

If we had traded for Mitchell I wouldn’t be as in on the tank this year.


i feel you on this. i think if we land doncic, no more excuses. but couldn't you see the tank army staying just as strong?

that said, doncic would have to pan out and be what we hope he is. there's always that.

i'm good on noel. hahaha. but i see the logic. long, rangy, defender. won't ask for the ball. catch some oops if healthy. dude wants his paper tho. carlisle is making sure this dude asking price stay low.
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Re: Post game: No Papa Johns 

Post#249 » by dakomish23 » Tue Dec 5, 2017 7:12 pm

Jeff Van Gully wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
Jeff Van Gully wrote:
not suggesting that. but greatness has been started upon with less.

you know my question. where does the tank end? it's not like you can accumulate the 92 dream team over 12 years of demise.


For me personally, I’d probably be done with the sprint to the top of the lottery once we get one more stud. Definitely if we land Doncic.

Then I’d focus on adding high end role players. I think we have two of those guys already in THJ & either Kanter or WHG. Probably add one mor3 guy (Noel is my choice).

If we had traded for Mitchell I wouldn’t be as in on the tank this year.


i feel you on this. i think if we land doncic, no more excuses. but couldn't you see the tank army staying just as strong?

that said, doncic would have to pan out and be what we hope he is. there's always that.

i'm good on noel. hahaha. but i see the logic. long, rangy, defender. won't ask for the ball. catch some oops if healthy. dude wants his paper tho. carlisle is making sure this dude asking price stay low.


Yeah there is the question of Doncic living up to his potential, but I’d be fine to go into the season trying to win as much as possible with that core.

There was an article saying how KP is the ideal fit next to a guy like Kanter. I think the same applies to Noel. Plus he can easily fit next to Kanter or WHG. Let KOQ be the 3rd C.

It’s a pipe dream. We won’t be bad enough to land Doncic, we probably won’t sell high on vets taking cap space so we can’t sign Noel (no BR due to QO) and we’ll likely let KOQ go.
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Re: Post game: No Papa Johns 

Post#250 » by IllmaticHandler » Tue Dec 5, 2017 7:26 pm

Mofos needs to STFU with the word tanking. Simply losing does not mean Tanking. It just means you are not good enough to win on a consistent basis. Tanking only happens when the mandate is from above. Until KP and THJ are healthy and are purposely held out of games....dont talk to me about tanking. There was a time in the NBA, when losing was simply called losing...smh
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Re: RE: Re: Post game: No Papa Johns 

Post#251 » by GONYK » Tue Dec 5, 2017 7:34 pm

IllmaticHandler wrote:Mofos needs to STFU with the word tanking. Simply losing does not mean Tanking. It just means you are not good enough to win on a consistent basis. Tanking only happens when the mandate is from above. Until KP and THJ are healthy and are purposely held out of games....dont talk to me about tanking. There was a time in the NBA, when losing was simply called losing...smh
Bingo.

Which is why there will be a lot of broken hearts when the team gets healthy again.

Management is evaluating the roster and the coach. Until they feel that they have all the info they need, they will let the chips fall where they will.
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Re: Post game: No Papa Johns 

Post#252 » by Capn'O » Tue Dec 5, 2017 7:35 pm

IllmaticHandler wrote:Mofos needs to STFU with the word tanking. Simply losing does not mean Tanking. It just means you are not good enough to win on a consistent basis. Tanking only happens when the mandate is from above. Until KP and THJ are healthy and are purposely held out of games....dont talk to me about tanking. There was a time in the NBA, when losing was simply called losing...smh


Correct. At press time, the team is just losing.

The biggest difference between now and before is that the team has stopped squandering future assets for current ones and that is by design. They have not, however, taken steps to actively become non-competitive.
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Re: Post game: No Papa Johns 

Post#253 » by Capn'O » Tue Dec 5, 2017 7:37 pm

That said, I do wonder if they'll take a longer view on KP and have him address the injury. There's some initial smoke.
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Re: Post game: No Papa Johns 

Post#254 » by K P 6 » Tue Dec 5, 2017 7:39 pm

Tanking is purposely losing which no NBA team does. Tanking is fandom hoping their team loses for better position in the draft.
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Re: Post game: No Papa Johns 

Post#255 » by HarthorneWingo » Tue Dec 5, 2017 7:43 pm

Jeff Van Gully wrote:
Red Vines wrote:
Iron Mantis wrote:Just as there are picks that do not pan out...there are others picked before and shortly after those players you named that have panned out. So yes, drafting well is important.


The point is, at the moment, the Knicks best chance at adding young talent to their core is through the draft. The higher you draft, the more likely you will have impact players available to choose from.


And the more unsuccessful & chaotic your organization, the less chance you have of keeping & attracting young talent.


this is my main point.

it's not like a good team like san antonio lucking out and getting tim duncan. we're talking about a team that's bad staying bad enough to draft potential saviors who develop in losing cultures. i'm not suggesting drafting well isn't important or that the best players aren't at the top. i'm saying you have to have a true north as a ball club. suggesting being bad as a strategy is very dangerous.

of course, there's the underlying suggestion that everyone should be complicit in playing possum and throwing games, which is a non-starter.


There are plenty of good players to be had beyond the lottery. You just have to know what you're doing. You can't ask players to loss or sit your best players in order to facilitate that outcome. This idea of "tanking" is nonsense. I don't see how you can be a serious basketball fan and not see this.
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Re: Post game: No Papa Johns 

Post#256 » by Red Vines » Tue Dec 5, 2017 7:45 pm

K P 6 wrote:Tanking is purposely losing which no NBA team does. Tanking is fandom hoping their team loses for better position in the draft.

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Re: RE: Re: Post game: No Papa Johns 

Post#257 » by dakomish23 » Tue Dec 5, 2017 7:45 pm

Iron Mantis wrote:
K-DOT wrote:
Iron Mantis wrote:I said exactly what I said. The better your draft position, the more likely you will have a major impact player available for "good scouting and player development".

So we are just going to pretend far and away the majority of the NBA's stars weren't top 10 draft picks? In many cases, top 5?

So you'd choose a team with poor scouting and the 5th pick over a team with good scouting and the 12th pick

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Re: RE: Re: Post game: No Papa Johns 

Post#258 » by j4remi » Tue Dec 5, 2017 7:47 pm

GONYK wrote:
IllmaticHandler wrote:Mofos needs to STFU with the word tanking. Simply losing does not mean Tanking. It just means you are not good enough to win on a consistent basis. Tanking only happens when the mandate is from above. Until KP and THJ are healthy and are purposely held out of games....dont talk to me about tanking. There was a time in the NBA, when losing was simply called losing...smh
Bingo.

Which is why there will be a lot of broken hearts when the team gets healthy again.

Management is evaluating the roster and the coach. Until they feel that they have all the info they need, they will let the chips fall where they will.


I agree that this isn't a tank but I could see this converting from inadvertent tanking to a real tank if KP/THJ don't get right fast. The schedule gets brutal in a couple of weeks and this is the soft spot where they're supposed to make room for those L's. Screwing up this section of the schedule could leave them far enough out of the race by mid-January to switch gears with a month to find trades. So it's not a tank, but if the playoffs look like a long shot I'm guessing the original "we're focused on developing the youth" stuff will come back with a vengeance (IE: selling off some pieces and revamping the rotation).
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Re: Post game: No Papa Johns 

Post#259 » by IllmaticHandler » Tue Dec 5, 2017 7:47 pm

lol at Tanking is hoping your team loses. :lol:


You got dudes making up **** now.
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Re: Post game: No Papa Johns 

Post#260 » by HarthorneWingo » Tue Dec 5, 2017 7:49 pm

Jeff Van Gully wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
Jeff Van Gully wrote:
not suggesting that. but greatness has been started upon with less.

you know my question. where does the tank end? it's not like you can accumulate the 92 dream team over 12 years of demise.


For me personally, I’d probably be done with the sprint to the top of the lottery once we get one more stud. Definitely if we land Doncic.

Then I’d focus on adding high end role players. I think we have two of those guys already in THJ & either Kanter or WHG. Probably add one mor3 guy (Noel is my choice).

If we had traded for Mitchell I wouldn’t be as in on the tank this year.


i feel you on this. i think if we land doncic, no more excuses. but couldn't you see the tank army staying just as strong?

that said, doncic would have to pan out and be what we hope he is. there's always that.

i'm good on noel. hahaha. but i see the logic. long, rangy, defender. won't ask for the ball. catch some oops if healthy. dude wants his paper tho. carlisle is making sure this dude asking price stay low.


Those tankers are greedy fcks. It becomes like a drug to them. Just one more fix, man. Please, I gotta have it now.

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