ImageImageImageImageImage

Knicks-Grizz Postgame

Moderators: moocow007, Knickstape1214, magnumt, Capn'O, King of Canada, j4remi, Deeeez Knicks, Thorn, GONYK, NoLayupRule, mrpoetryNmotion, Thugger HBC

User avatar
TheGreenArrow
Junior
Posts: 476
And1: 315
Joined: Sep 13, 2017

Re: Knicks-Grizz Postgame 

Post#361 » by TheGreenArrow » Thu Dec 7, 2017 8:49 pm

I might just stop watching my knicks until jeff is canned. This guy is treating kp like he's melo.

Dude jist cant develop talent.....

Read on Twitter
User avatar
El Poochio
Knicks Forum Jose Cuervo Man
Posts: 17,150
And1: 9,136
Joined: May 19, 2015
Location: Where The Wild Things Are
       

Re: Knicks-Grizz Postgame 

Post#362 » by El Poochio » Thu Dec 7, 2017 8:54 pm

j4remi wrote:
Capn'O wrote:
j4remi wrote:The real question is probably as simple "Do you expect us to be a .500 team after this 28 game stretch you've pulled?" My answer is no.


If I had to put my money down, I'd put us at about 3 or 4 games below by February. A falloff but not a sharp one.

And, I might add, this goes against what I'd hope for the team which is a more distinct pattern either upwards or down.



We'll have injuries and so will other teams. But KP missing significant time changes that. We're probably a .300 team in that case.


I'd hedge closer to 6-8 under, but that's because I'm expecting some injuries and fall off for fatigue...which I agree would actually be better than 4 because at least it gives us a clearer direction.


Those 8 home games could all be wins though then you beat couple of those bad teams away and its hovering around %50 again
Minnesota TimberWolves

G: Lonzo Ball | DSJ | D. Bembry
G: Donovan Mitchell | Rodney McGruder | D. Reed
F: Jaylen Brown | Josh Jackson | Justin Jackson
F: Jayson Tatum | Trevor Booker | C. Swanigan
C: Joel Embiid | JaVale McGee | Jakob Pöltl

BAT18 - The Young Wolf Rises
User avatar
N Y K
General Manager
Posts: 8,568
And1: 3,655
Joined: Jan 18, 2015
       

Re: Knicks-Grizz Postgame 

Post#363 » by N Y K » Thu Dec 7, 2017 9:06 pm

TheGreenArrow wrote:I might just stop watching my knicks until jeff is canned. This guy is treating kp like he's melo.

Dude jist cant develop talent.....

Read on Twitter

Does this also mean you would post less?

I kid, I kid. :lol:
Kristaps + Frank + Willy + Timmy
User avatar
Knicksfan1992
Head Coach
Posts: 7,343
And1: 5,427
Joined: Jun 14, 2012
         

Re: Knicks-Grizz Postgame 

Post#364 » by Knicksfan1992 » Thu Dec 7, 2017 9:11 pm

TheGreenArrow wrote:I might just stop watching my knicks until jeff is canned. This guy is treating kp like he's melo.

Dude jist cant develop talent.....

Read on Twitter


KP needs to learn how to go 1 on 1. It's only going to help his development. Easy pin downs and catch and shoots are much more scarce in the playoffs. You need impact 1 on 1 guys to win. As much as we laud the Spurs and Warriors for their ball movement. They have always had guys who can go get you a bucket or generate a good look for someone else out of a post up, isolation, or pick and roll action.
Build A Franchise - OKC
G-Isaiah Thomas
G-Pat Beverley
F- Robert Covington
F- Tobias Harris
C- Marc Gasol

6th man- DWade
- Tristan Thompson
-Justin Holiday
-Ron Baker
-KJ McDaniels
-Tyler Dorsey
-Darell Arthur
-Nemanja Bjelica
-Jeff Withey
-Edmond Sumner
User avatar
3toheadmelo
RealGM
Posts: 17,293
And1: 10,567
Joined: Feb 15, 2015
 

Re: Knicks-Grizz Postgame 

Post#365 » by 3toheadmelo » Thu Dec 7, 2017 9:16 pm

Knicksfan1992 wrote:
TheGreenArrow wrote:I might just stop watching my knicks until jeff is canned. This guy is treating kp like he's melo.

Dude jist cant develop talent.....

Read on Twitter


KP needs to learn how to go 1 on 1. It's only going to help his development. Easy pin downs and catch and shoots are much more scarce in the playoffs. You need impact 1 on 1 guys to win. As much as we laud the Spurs and Warriors for their ball movement. They have always had guys who can go get you a bucket or generate a good look for someone else out of a post up, isolation, or pick and roll action.

facts
he looks vastly improved in his isos/1 on 1 action compared to last year. those are great signs

now he has to look to make better passes out of his double teams (which i believe will improve in time). but also the team needs to improve their off ball movement. we can't just stop and stare at KP while he goes 1 v 1.
Cavs

PG: Dennis Smith Jr/A Brooks/D Will
SG: Josh Jackson/Dwayne Bacon/Bryn Forbes
SF: Jayson Tatum/Shabazz Muhammad/Glenn Robinson III
PF: Skal Labissiere/Caleb Swanigan/Long
C: Bam Adebayo/Dwight Powell/Justin Patton

Image
User avatar
K P 6
RealGM
Posts: 32,208
And1: 10,259
Joined: Jun 27, 2006
Location: Getting over screens with Gusto.
Contact:
 

Re: RE: Re: Knicks-Grizz Postgame 

Post#366 » by K P 6 » Thu Dec 7, 2017 9:18 pm

whocares1 wrote:
Jimmit79 wrote:
K P 6 wrote:KOQ has been trash and Willy still cant get a meaningful opportunity. Thats unacceptable. Dotson ends the game well and you drop his minutes the next game. Since the game he pulled Frank in the 4th ive been pissed at him.
Jeff cares more about his job than development.

Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk


Can't really blame him. He's trying to win games just like every coach in the league does. It's up to management to tell him to play the young kids more.

Coaches get extensions based on more than just wins. I see it all the time.
Image
Ntilikina Gang. SMFPB CMFGB SMFMB KMFPB FMFNB
amit wrote:Frank prime will be like 10 ppg. Hes not that kind of PG and we knew it since he got drafted. Thats why scorers players around frank will be the bast for him
User avatar
K P 6
RealGM
Posts: 32,208
And1: 10,259
Joined: Jun 27, 2006
Location: Getting over screens with Gusto.
Contact:
 

Re: Knicks-Grizz Postgame 

Post#367 » by K P 6 » Thu Dec 7, 2017 9:23 pm

TheGreenArrow wrote:I might just stop watching my knicks until jeff is canned. This guy is treating kp like he's melo.

Dude jist cant develop talent.....

Read on Twitter

Jeff is an idiot. Ive been saying KP needs those pin downs a ton and have him in pick and roll. He is not an ISo player yet. He was dominating when he got ths ball in his spots and shoot over guys. He doesnt have post moves yet. I think if we do go to him in the post it should be to pass more.
Image
Ntilikina Gang. SMFPB CMFGB SMFMB KMFPB FMFNB
amit wrote:Frank prime will be like 10 ppg. Hes not that kind of PG and we knew it since he got drafted. Thats why scorers players around frank will be the bast for him
User avatar
Besart19
General Manager
Posts: 8,211
And1: 1,581
Joined: Feb 12, 2012
Location: Dibra, Albania
   

Re: Knicks-Grizz Postgame 

Post#368 » by Besart19 » Thu Dec 7, 2017 9:23 pm

KOQ and Baker for Harkless

Or Willy and Baker for Kyle Anderson

Ntilikina/Jack/Mayes
Timmy/Dotson/Burke
Lee/McDermott/Lance
KP/Harkless/Beasley/Hicks
Kanter/Noah/Willy/Kornet
Image
User avatar
GONYK
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 51,056
And1: 15,332
Joined: Jun 27, 2003
Location: Frankie N Baby
   

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Knicks-Grizz Postgame 

Post#369 » by GONYK » Thu Dec 7, 2017 9:25 pm

K P 6 wrote:
whocares1 wrote:
Jimmit79 wrote:Jeff cares more about his job than development.

Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk


Can't really blame him. He's trying to win games just like every coach in the league does. It's up to management to tell him to play the young kids more.

Coaches get extensions based on more than just wins. I see it all the time.

Coaches get extensions based on the directives management gives them.
User avatar
Knicksfan1992
Head Coach
Posts: 7,343
And1: 5,427
Joined: Jun 14, 2012
         

Re: Knicks-Grizz Postgame 

Post#370 » by Knicksfan1992 » Thu Dec 7, 2017 9:25 pm

K P 6 wrote:
TheGreenArrow wrote:I might just stop watching my knicks until jeff is canned. This guy is treating kp like he's melo.

Dude jist cant develop talent.....

Read on Twitter

Jeff is an idiot. Ive been saying KP needs those pin downs a ton and have him in pick and roll. He is not an ISo player yet. He was dominating when he got ths ball in his spots and shoot over guys. He doesnt have post moves yet. I think if we do go to him in the post it should be to pass more.


Only way he's going to get good at it is if he tries to implement those moves in game.
Build A Franchise - OKC
G-Isaiah Thomas
G-Pat Beverley
F- Robert Covington
F- Tobias Harris
C- Marc Gasol

6th man- DWade
- Tristan Thompson
-Justin Holiday
-Ron Baker
-KJ McDaniels
-Tyler Dorsey
-Darell Arthur
-Nemanja Bjelica
-Jeff Withey
-Edmond Sumner
User avatar
Reign23
Analyst
Posts: 3,053
And1: 1,158
Joined: Dec 29, 2014
Location: Regensburg, Germany.
   

Re: Knicks-Grizz Postgame 

Post#371 » by Reign23 » Thu Dec 7, 2017 9:41 pm

Besart19 wrote:KOQ and Baker for Harkless

Or Willy and Baker for Kyle Anderson

Ntilikina/Jack/Mayes
Timmy/Dotson/Burke
Lee/McDermott/Lance
KP/Harkless/Beasley/Hicks
Kanter/Noah/Willy/Kornet


harkless sucks again this year (after a good last season). we would add way too much money without getting real upside. he makes double figures over this season and the next 2.
formerly known as knickst4pe
User avatar
Besart19
General Manager
Posts: 8,211
And1: 1,581
Joined: Feb 12, 2012
Location: Dibra, Albania
   

Re: Knicks-Grizz Postgame 

Post#372 » by Besart19 » Thu Dec 7, 2017 9:43 pm

Reign23 wrote:
Besart19 wrote:KOQ and Baker for Harkless

Or Willy and Baker for Kyle Anderson

Ntilikina/Jack/Mayes
Timmy/Dotson/Burke
Lee/McDermott/Lance
KP/Harkless/Beasley/Hicks
Kanter/Noah/Willy/Kornet


harkless sucks again this year (after a good last season). we would add way too much money without getting real upside. he makes double figures over this season and the next 2.


Harkless got a new contract? I thought he was an UFA this upcoming summer
Image
User avatar
Oscirus
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,556
And1: 2,266
Joined: Dec 09, 2011
       

Re: Knicks-Grizz Postgame 

Post#373 » by Oscirus » Thu Dec 7, 2017 10:21 pm

j4remi wrote:
Capn'O wrote:
The question I'm asking is whether we're really that bad on the road or whether we're that bad without KP? He's missed a lot of recent road games against easier teams so the two are confounded. I can't conclude we'll be a sub .300 team on the road just yet.

This is our schedule through February by quality of opponent - Road games in Blue:

Non-Playoff Teams - 13 games
Chicago
Atlanta
LAL
Brooklyn
Charlotte*
Chicago
Brooklyn
Memphis*
LAL
Chicago
Dallas
Phoenix
Brooklyn

*These guys could turn it around

Likely-Playoff Teams - 10 games
OKC
Detroit
Philly
New Orleans
New Orleans
Utah
Washington
Miami
Minny
Denver

Contendahs!!! - 5 games
Boston
SAS
SAS
Golden State
Boston


Point being, if we're really that bad on the road, we're kinda ****. If we can figure that out, there are plenty of beatable opponents in this upcoming stretch that will then lead to a more home/road neutral finish. No teams stay healthy but I can't confidently say that we can't beat a lot of these teams with KP in the lineup. Many, we already have.


I think it's both. We're that bad without KP AND we're awful on the road. It's not like we've looked stellar with KP out there besides the one game in Cleveland. Again, I'm not about to give our road record a pass for the games without KP bc I'm sure the Grizzlies fans think they'd have a better chance with Conley or that Pacers fans think Myles Turner is the reason they won our second match-up for example. A stretch of 19 road games in 28 total games isn't just bad because of mental aspects, a team on the road usually looks fatigued and worse for wear by the end of a road trip turning "winnable" games into uphill battles.

The real question is probably as simple "Do you expect us to be a .500 team after this 28 game stretch you've pulled?" My answer is no.


Only way we get to 500 is if KP becomes hercules again, Timmy plays at least one good half a game and if Jeff devel- yea we're not finishing above 500. Prediction? Lower lottery pick.
Read on Twitter
User avatar
Clyde_Style
RealGM
Posts: 21,607
And1: 6,634
Joined: Jul 12, 2009

Re: Knicks-Grizz Postgame 

Post#374 » by Clyde_Style » Thu Dec 7, 2017 10:27 pm

BREAKING DA GAWD NEWS

NY Daily News
Ex-Knick Chris Smith converts to Judaism, signs deal in Israel
Chris Smith has signed a three-year deal with Ironi Nahariya of the Israeli first division.
...............................................................................Image
User avatar
Oscirus
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,556
And1: 2,266
Joined: Dec 09, 2011
       

Re: Knicks-Grizz Postgame 

Post#375 » by Oscirus » Thu Dec 7, 2017 10:29 pm

Clyde_Style wrote:BREAKING DA GAWD NEWS

NY Daily News
Ex-Knick Chris Smith converts to Judaism, signs deal in Israel
Chris Smith has signed a three-year deal with Ironi Nahariya of the Israeli first division.


If Liangelo becomes jewish, can he sign to the same team?




Read on Twitter
User avatar
Greenie
RealGM
Posts: 47,619
And1: 22,305
Joined: Feb 25, 2010
Location: Killigan's Island
     

Re: Knicks-Grizz Postgame 

Post#376 » by Greenie » Thu Dec 7, 2017 10:32 pm

K P 6 wrote:
Greenie wrote:I need Lee, KOQ, Lance, Sessions, Kanter and Beasley traded ASAP.

I want a starting lineup of:

Willy
KP
Timmy
DDot
Frank


I need it.

This is the first year we actually have trading chips. However you know we gunning for that 8th seed. We will be the new Raptors.

Yep
BAF - Pistons
F:Cauley-Stein(28)|Baynes(20)|Onuaku
F:Morris(28)|Patterson(20)|Scott
F:Thompson(32)|Swaggy(12)|Williams
G:Brogdon(30)|Richardson(20)|Vaughn
G:Hill(30)|Joseph(20)|Baldwin
Head Coach - Stan Van Gundy
dakomish23
RealGM
Posts: 22,507
And1: 11,642
Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Location: Empire State
     

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Knicks-Grizz Postgame 

Post#377 » by dakomish23 » Thu Dec 7, 2017 11:01 pm

GONYK wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
GONYK wrote:

You're wrong. I complain plenty. Most recent example was the THJ signing.

Difference is that I get it out in a day or two, because like it or not, THJ is a Knick for the amount of money we signed him for. I don't really see the need to harp on it to the point that it blinds my perspective to what he is providing to the team.

So if we traded Lee, KOQ, and Lance tommorow and played the youth, I would assess what we acquired, state how I feel about it, acknowledge the pros and cons, and then go back to finding enjoyment of the Knicks where I can. Why? Because I don't control the Knicks, and if I don't like them, I have it in my power to stop watching them.

I won't moan and complain every single night, like you do, because I choose to enjoy the team more than I enjoy pissing in the wind so I can feel superior about my opinion.


Pull up the post game threads. How many wins this year did I complain about? I haven’t and I won’t when the kids are the focus.

Knicks had 67 FGA. The kids totaled 26.
240 mins between the 5 positions. The kids totaled 81 minutes.

Yay!!!!!!!

You’re trying to paint a narrative that doesn’t exist because your goal is to defend the team.

As always.

I don't post in game threads so I don't know what you do or don't post there.

All I do know is that we've been winning some games and you've been trying to piss in everyone's cereal because they are enjoying the team playing well.

What's actually funny is that I don't even disagree with you. If you care to look it up, coming into the season, I was of the opinion that Willy should absolutely be starting over Kanter, and I said directly before last night's game that Dotson should be getting 15+ mins a game in Timmy's absence. I was actually looking forward to a nice 20 win season. So we share the same opinion.

But I also accept reality that Jeff is going to coach to win, Willy has been underwhelming, Kanter has been a real impact player, and management wants to see what KP can do. Not to mention that expecting everyone to be traded away before December 15th is silly.

If we crater in the next month and fall 10 games below .500, I absolutely expect them to make moves to accommodate that reality. I can adjust my expectations to the circumstances. Imagine that?

You're just falling into the trap that is common on this board that if you're not railing against the team with the limited amount of information we all have, you're a Homer.

There is a middle ground, and I'm firmly on it.


I’m not pissing in anyone’s cereal.

Do you remember how this back and forth started? I responded in agreement to someone who shares the same opinion as I do.

I didn’t quote someone who was happy about the win and say “you deserve the mediocrity that’s coming”.

I want what I think is best for KP and this franchise down the road. You don’t see it my way. We can agree to disagree.
Dkillanyk4lyf wrote:Melo is the reason why we are in the mess we are in now. Acquiring him was the biggest mistake in knicks history.


blueNorange wrote:good thing knicks have kanter because willy looking pedestrian af
dakomish23
RealGM
Posts: 22,507
And1: 11,642
Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Location: Empire State
     

Re: Knicks-Grizz Postgame 

Post#378 » by dakomish23 » Thu Dec 7, 2017 11:06 pm

TheGreenArrow wrote:I might just stop watching my knicks until jeff is canned. This guy is treating kp like he's melo.

Dude jist cant develop talent.....

Read on Twitter


Even with the attempt at the “beautiful game” Jeff has tried, there’s going to be iso plays
Dkillanyk4lyf wrote:Melo is the reason why we are in the mess we are in now. Acquiring him was the biggest mistake in knicks history.


blueNorange wrote:good thing knicks have kanter because willy looking pedestrian af
User avatar
Dr. Detfink
RealGM
Posts: 16,080
And1: 3,351
Joined: Dec 31, 2005
Location: NYC
Contact:
       

Re: Knicks-Grizz Postgame 

Post#379 » by Dr. Detfink » Thu Dec 7, 2017 11:31 pm

Courtney Lee, The Mighty O'Quinn, and Lance Thomas have been with the Knicks for a while. IF they had any decent value for any picks or anyone, they would have been gone by now.


Ramon Sessions, really? I knew this chump would be horrible for the Knicks. Never was a starter for the most part.

Enes Kanter is a dinosaur. Teams are looking for unicorns.

Michael Beasley might fetch a low second round pick but that's it. This guy's body can't take the pounding. He's a nice bench player with occasional starter's minutes but can't do it all season long.
Jeff Van Gully
RealGM
Posts: 11,616
And1: 5,413
Joined: Jul 31, 2010
Location: Harlem
       

Re: Knicks-Grizz Postgame 

Post#380 » by Jeff Van Gully » Thu Dec 7, 2017 11:39 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:
Jeff Van Gully wrote:
GONYK wrote:
I was basically thinking along the same lines. Frank comes in earlier, and then you feel out his foul situation. He still gets to play with KP, which is statistically the best pairing for both of them.


and let frank stay in if he's clicking that night. jack's exhausted ass won't care about the lessened PT.


That is really the biggest issue imo. Frank will sometimes string together a few nice plays, or make one mistake then will be pulled from the game. Jeff has to loosen the leash and let him go a little more. It doesn't seem like he is tired and looks like he can def play more.

His foul situation is an issue in that he def has to learn to cut some of them down, but it shouldn't prevent him from playing more. It's not like he is fouling out or finishing the game anyway.

Looked like he was trending up, then came back down...hopefully its only a matter of time and minutes start going back up again


i really think it's part accountability and part not shaking confidence. but i agree that his minutes should trend up. i think they will.
que sera sera

Return to New York Knicks