ImageImageImageImageImage

Shams: Knicks and Trey Burke in Serious Talks on a deal

Moderators: moocow007, Knickstape1214, Capn'O, magnumt, Deeeez Knicks, GONYK, NoLayupRule, mrpoetryNmotion, Thugger HBC, j4remi, King of Canada, Thorn

User avatar
Red Vines
RealGM
Posts: 31,138
And1: 6,907
Joined: Jun 26, 2005
Location: On Charlie V's toilet.
     

Re: Shams: Knicks and Trey Burke in Serious Talks on a deal 

Post#441 » by Red Vines » Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:07 pm

Hurry up and just waive Sessions already. Figure out the center situation separately.
Tanking is just your safe space.
Nazrmohamed
Veteran
Posts: 2,943
And1: 1,194
Joined: May 16, 2013
     

Re: RE: Re: Shams: Knicks and Trey Burke in Serious Talks on a deal 

Post#442 » by Nazrmohamed » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:49 pm

GONYK wrote:
Nazrmohamed wrote:Wht I don't get is all the hate. We're supposed to be a rebuilding team. Yes that means tanking. We play 2 30 yr olds and will probably still get no more than the 9th seed. Idk, maybe Burke just sucks but it's worth a shot at his age.
Rebuilding =/= tanking


But it very well could. The expectations you have are only the result of KP, who we tanked to get. So it's already evident, we just have to complete the process.
User avatar
Knicksfan1992
General Manager
Posts: 7,516
And1: 5,585
Joined: Jun 14, 2012
         

Re: Shams: Knicks and Trey Burke in Serious Talks on a deal 

Post#443 » by Knicksfan1992 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:55 pm

Knickstape1214 wrote:
Carl_Karlson wrote:
Knickstape1214 wrote:
I highly doubt Frank’s minutes are going to be cut. If anything, it’ll be Jacks and a wing. I don’t like Horny and want him gone as much as everyone else, but I don’t think he’s that stupid.


No way Jack's minutes get cut for Burke. It'll be Baker and Frank sacrificing PT


Ok, I disagree. I think there’s 0 indication Frank’s minutes will be cut. In fact, I think there’s a better chance he’s just a bench warmer a la Sessions than there is he takes Frank’s minutes. If Burke was going to come to the team and take someone’s minutes, it would have happened by now because we’ve been falling for a while.

IMO IF Burke ends up getting minutes, it’ll be at the expense of Jack + wing.


I'm guessing eventually he cuts into the minutes of Baker. Let Frank take the tougher assignment on D while Burke can cook 2nd units offensively. Would like to see Jeff stagger the line ups for when KP's out to have Burke/THJ out there against some bench guys. Bench wings can't stop THJ and we should be able to get by defensively with KOQ and Frank out there.
Build A Franchise - OKC
G-Isaiah Thomas
G-Pat Beverley
F- Robert Covington
F- Tobias Harris
C- Marc Gasol

6th man- DWade
- Tristan Thompson
-Justin Holiday
-Ron Baker
-KJ McDaniels
-Tyler Dorsey
-Darell Arthur
-Nemanja Bjelica
-Jeff Withey
-Edmond Sumner
bkzfinest11
Senior
Posts: 677
And1: 102
Joined: Feb 20, 2007
Location: Knicks trollin' fan since birth
       

Re: Shams: Knicks and Trey Burke in Serious Talks on a deal 

Post#444 » by bkzfinest11 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:02 pm

Knicksfan1992 wrote:
Knickstape1214 wrote:
Carl_Karlson wrote:
No way Jack's minutes get cut for Burke. It'll be Baker and Frank sacrificing PT


Ok, I disagree. I think there’s 0 indication Frank’s minutes will be cut. In fact, I think there’s a better chance he’s just a bench warmer a la Sessions than there is he takes Frank’s minutes. If Burke was going to come to the team and take someone’s minutes, it would have happened by now because we’ve been falling for a while.

IMO IF Burke ends up getting minutes, it’ll be at the expense of Jack + wing.


I'm guessing eventually he cuts into the minutes of Baker. Let Frank take the tougher assignment on D while Burke can cook 2nd units offensively. Would like to see Jeff stagger the line ups for when KP's out to have Burke/THJ out there against some bench guys. Bench wings can't stop THJ and we should be able to get by defensively with KOQ and Frank out there.


with all that jack gets most mins for jeff
User avatar
Knicksfan1992
General Manager
Posts: 7,516
And1: 5,585
Joined: Jun 14, 2012
         

Re: Shams: Knicks and Trey Burke in Serious Talks on a deal 

Post#445 » by Knicksfan1992 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:08 pm

bkzfinest11 wrote:
Knicksfan1992 wrote:
Knickstape1214 wrote:
Ok, I disagree. I think there’s 0 indication Frank’s minutes will be cut. In fact, I think there’s a better chance he’s just a bench warmer a la Sessions than there is he takes Frank’s minutes. If Burke was going to come to the team and take someone’s minutes, it would have happened by now because we’ve been falling for a while.

IMO IF Burke ends up getting minutes, it’ll be at the expense of Jack + wing.


I'm guessing eventually he cuts into the minutes of Baker. Let Frank take the tougher assignment on D while Burke can cook 2nd units offensively. Would like to see Jeff stagger the line ups for when KP's out to have Burke/THJ out there against some bench guys. Bench wings can't stop THJ and we should be able to get by defensively with KOQ and Frank out there.


with all that jack gets most mins for jeff


I think eventually Jack will slowly get his minutes cut as we toil around the 7-10 seed. Management is going to want to hand the reigns over to Frank at some point. With that said, people here are being way too harsh on JJ. Is he a bum? Yes what do you expect? He's 36 and was never particularly great in his prime anyway. He's given us good minutes and has been relatively consistent. The issue right now is KP has fallen off a cliff and it's exacerbating all of the issues that it was previously covering up for us... Getting THJ back will help as I think he was playing at an all star caliber level before the injury but this team is destined for 30-40 wins which is fine because we have a decently young core and a player with superstar potential. Just have to hope to hit it right in these drafts upcoming and make smart trades going forward and we'll be alright. Playing jack too many minutes this year doesn't really hurt anything or prevent Frank from becoming whatever he may become. It's short sighted to think it would.
Build A Franchise - OKC
G-Isaiah Thomas
G-Pat Beverley
F- Robert Covington
F- Tobias Harris
C- Marc Gasol

6th man- DWade
- Tristan Thompson
-Justin Holiday
-Ron Baker
-KJ McDaniels
-Tyler Dorsey
-Darell Arthur
-Nemanja Bjelica
-Jeff Withey
-Edmond Sumner
User avatar
GONYK
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 51,398
And1: 15,817
Joined: Jun 27, 2003
Location: Frankie N Baby
   

Re: RE: Re: Shams: Knicks and Trey Burke in Serious Talks on a deal 

Post#446 » by GONYK » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:14 pm

Nazrmohamed wrote:
GONYK wrote:
Nazrmohamed wrote:Wht I don't get is all the hate. We're supposed to be a rebuilding team. Yes that means tanking. We play 2 30 yr olds and will probably still get no more than the 9th seed. Idk, maybe Burke just sucks but it's worth a shot at his age.
Rebuilding =/= tanking


But it very well could. The expectations you have are only the result of KP, who we tanked to get. So it's already evident, we just have to complete the process.


True tanking went out the window when we signed Timmy.

We can settle for just being bad though, and get worse at the deadline.
BBALLER4FR
RealGM
Posts: 13,834
And1: 2,556
Joined: May 05, 2004
Location: Not sure anymore.
   

Re: Shams: Knicks and Trey Burke in Serious Talks on a deal 

Post#447 » by BBALLER4FR » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:02 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
BBALLER4FR wrote:
Oh I'm not so sure they'll know when to let go. We just got beat for a 3rd time by a team of absolute nobodies vying for a top lottery spot...on our home floor. If this ain't the time to ring the alarm then this coach can shove it up his a$$.


I don’t know if they’ll know when to let go either.

This organization wants as many W’s as possible no matter how the season went.


:lol: I thought you guys loved Mills and Perry because they now have us on the right track, etc., blah, blah blah. Now, they're like all the other GMs we've had. Hysterical.


You've not heard me say such things because I knew nothing of Perry before he came here and he has proven nothing here yet.
User avatar
HarthorneWingo
Knicks Forum Grandpa's Law
Posts: 42,704
And1: 14,346
Joined: May 16, 2005
   

Re: Shams: Knicks and Trey Burke in Serious Talks on a deal 

Post#448 » by HarthorneWingo » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:13 pm

BBALLER4FR wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
I don’t know if they’ll know when to let go either.

This organization wants as many W’s as possible no matter how the season went.


:lol: I thought you guys loved Mills and Perry because they now have us on the right track, etc., blah, blah blah. Now, they're like all the other GMs we've had. Hysterical.


You've not heard me say such things because I knew nothing of Perry before he came here and he has proven nothing here yet.


Yeah, not you. I wasn't referring to anyone in particular. But there is a group here who seem to think that we finally have a solid management corp that has a rebuilding plan which they'll stick to. Maybe they do. I'm guessing we'll know more by this trade deadline and then again this summer. I'm sure they're playing their cards close to the vest, as they should.
Image
bkzfinest11
Senior
Posts: 677
And1: 102
Joined: Feb 20, 2007
Location: Knicks trollin' fan since birth
       

Re: Shams: Knicks and Trey Burke in Serious Talks on a deal 

Post#449 » by bkzfinest11 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:16 pm

Knicksfan1992 wrote:
bkzfinest11 wrote:
Knicksfan1992 wrote:
I'm guessing eventually he cuts into the minutes of Baker. Let Frank take the tougher assignment on D while Burke can cook 2nd units offensively. Would like to see Jeff stagger the line ups for when KP's out to have Burke/THJ out there against some bench guys. Bench wings can't stop THJ and we should be able to get by defensively with KOQ and Frank out there.


with all that jack gets most mins for jeff


I think eventually Jack will slowly get his minutes cut as we toil around the 7-10 seed. Management is going to want to hand the reigns over to Frank at some point. With that said, people here are being way too harsh on JJ. Is he a bum? Yes what do you expect? He's 36 and was never particularly great in his prime anyway. He's given us good minutes and has been relatively consistent. The issue right now is KP has fallen off a cliff and it's exacerbating all of the issues that it was previously covering up for us... Getting THJ back will help as I think he was playing at an all star caliber level before the injury but this team is destined for 30-40 wins which is fine because we have a decently young core and a player with superstar potential. Just have to hope to hit it right in these drafts upcoming and make smart trades going forward and we'll be alright. Playing jack too many minutes this year doesn't really hurt anything or prevent Frank from becoming whatever he may become. It's short sighted to think it would.


Well said and I get what you are saying but the issue is Lee and Jack have been labeled team captain so it will be hard to justify benching them. and even bigger issue to me is that KP was great in setting pick and rolling to the basket. Jack getting most of the mins teaching KP to go to three point line instead of driving, you can see that every night. I rather get Frank get burned with KP and THJ on the floor so they can learn to play together. We are losing anyways.
User avatar
Sark
RealGM
Posts: 12,065
And1: 6,337
Joined: Sep 21, 2010
Location: Location: Location:
 

Re: Shams: Knicks and Trey Burke in Serious Talks on a deal 

Post#450 » by Sark » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:17 pm

How long does it take to call up a fcking point guard from Westchester? Organization can't even do the simple things correctly.
#Knickstank
HEZI
RealGM
Posts: 23,297
And1: 6,290
Joined: Nov 16, 2004
 

Re: Shams: Knicks and Trey Burke in Serious Talks on a deal 

Post#451 » by HEZI » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:25 pm

Sark wrote:How long does it take to call up a fcking point guard from Westchester? Organization can't even do the simple things correctly.


Maybe they're working on a trade :dontknow:
DENVER NUGGETS

PG: John Wall / Reggie Jackson / Devin Harris
SG: Demar Derozan / Joe Harris / Sindarius Thornwell / G.Hen
SF: Andre Iguodala / Darius Miller / Josh Huestis
PF: Trevor Booker / Ryan Anderson
C: Brook Lopez / Tarik Black / Willie Reed
User avatar
HarthorneWingo
Knicks Forum Grandpa's Law
Posts: 42,704
And1: 14,346
Joined: May 16, 2005
   

Re: RE: Re: Shams: Knicks and Trey Burke in Serious Talks on a deal 

Post#452 » by HarthorneWingo » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:26 pm

GONYK wrote:
Nazrmohamed wrote:
GONYK wrote:Rebuilding =/= tanking


But it very well could. The expectations you have are only the result of KP, who we tanked to get. So it's already evident, we just have to complete the process.


True tanking went out the window when we signed Timmy.

We can settle for just being bad though, and get worse at the deadline.


We can be pretty brutal depending on what rotations we choose to use the last two months. We can still get a nice player in the 10-14 picks, don't you think?
Image
User avatar
GONYK
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 51,398
And1: 15,817
Joined: Jun 27, 2003
Location: Frankie N Baby
   

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Shams: Knicks and Trey Burke in Serious Talks on a deal 

Post#453 » by GONYK » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:37 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
GONYK wrote:
Nazrmohamed wrote:
But it very well could. The expectations you have are only the result of KP, who we tanked to get. So it's already evident, we just have to complete the process.


True tanking went out the window when we signed Timmy.

We can settle for just being bad though, and get worse at the deadline.


We can be pretty brutal depending on what rotations we choose to use the last two months. We can still get a nice player in the 10-14 picks, don't you think?

Yes
reub
Analyst
Posts: 3,086
And1: 1,226
Joined: Aug 18, 2015
 

Re: Shams: Knicks and Trey Burke in Serious Talks on a deal 

Post#454 » by reub » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:22 am

This team with Hardaway, Lee, KP, Kanter, Bease, Oak, Frank, McDermott plus scrappers like Lance and Baker could be a playoff team with a real point guard. I'd try signing Burke or better yet try to trade for Rubio, Kemba or Drajic. Why wait?
I might even try a new coach.
User avatar
MP4LIFE
Veteran
Posts: 2,754
And1: 1,791
Joined: Jul 15, 2016
 

Re: Shams: Knicks and Trey Burke in Serious Talks on a deal 

Post#455 » by MP4LIFE » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:25 am

Red Vines wrote:Hurry up and just waive Sessions already. Figure out the center situation separately.


What's the rush?
Dolan's record as owner of NYK as of 4/12/17: 576-802
User avatar
3toheadmelo
RealGM
Posts: 18,571
And1: 11,436
Joined: Feb 15, 2015
 

Re: Shams: Knicks and Trey Burke in Serious Talks on a deal 

Post#456 » by 3toheadmelo » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:38 am

Image
Cavs

PG: Dennis Smith Jr/A Brooks/D Will
SG: Josh Jackson/Dwayne Bacon/Bryn Forbes
SF: Jayson Tatum/Shabazz Muhammad/Glenn Robinson III
PF: Skal Labissiere/Caleb Swanigan/Long
C: Bam Adebayo/Dwight Powell/Justin Patton

Image
BLACKFEET 2010
Head Coach
Posts: 6,773
And1: 1,090
Joined: Jun 26, 2009

Re: Shams: Knicks and Trey Burke in Serious Talks on a deal 

Post#457 » by BLACKFEET 2010 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:52 am

Carl_Karlson wrote:
Huey Freeman wrote:
Carl_Karlson wrote:
Burke will cut into Frank's minutes, not Jack's.

If Burke comes aboard that'll bump Frank to 3rd string PG. Unless Burke sucks hard enough to be 3rd string

If/ when we actually sign this cat, I can see Hornacek splitting Burke's minutes playing WITH Frank and some minutes with Courtney. Jeff can get him playing time without really cutting Frank's minutes.


I don't see it. Jeff hasn't done anything to show he believes in Frank or even cares about his development. Jeff is only concerned with getting wins for his resume so he can catch on anywhere else after he gets dropped from here

I hate this train of thought.

First if all, he plays the kid heavy minutes. There are times he’s ineffective and times he he needs to be reigned in like every young player. And there are even times—dig this—that he’s tired.

Jeff is doing whatever is asked of him by the FO, I’m sure. And he has a handle on the team. He’s not perfect but to suggest he’s not developing the kid speaks to the fact we’ve never seen true development here in NYC. We either overvalue middling prospects or we are spoiled by KP coming from cross seas so ready for prime time; it’s an aberration. This kid isn’t coming off the bench and making it clear to see or say he should be starting or playing more minutes than hes already playing. He’s coming along. We see flashes but until he gets aggressive and starts putting the potential into numbers consistently, he’s fine in his role.

We are still fighting to win games. Some think that’s wrong which is again short sighted. We are slipping of late and some could say it was inevitable. That’s fine. But we are still fighting. You CAN NOT hand the team over to the kids with no regard to the vets. That’s like quitting in their eyes. And if they don’t play, their marketability takes a hit. Coach’s trust maturity and experience. They know the terminology and the logic behind coach’s instructions. They have agents and agendas as well as dialogue with the front office. Promises are made and relationships exist for present and future business. Vets aren’t in the business of trying to lose for the organization to eventually draft their replacements. Vets have to play. Every sport. They set the standards and define “work” to children who don’t understand what the word means. Even when the result isn’t there, they understand what they should be doing.

Most rookies are still learning what exactly is being asked of them. You leave Frank out there to “develop” and run the risk of exposing him and breaking his confidence and of course the fan base turns on him. You know something crazy? No one ever talks about it taking a whole season damn near for Latrell Sprewell to start here. So I don’t get the pitchfork mentality of “Frank must play more!” Dude isn’t ready for more. Now could the coach stagger minutes better? I would humbly say yes. But again people think coach’s post games interviews = his coaching. Like he does nothing. As if there is no stragtegy. Like we were moving around on offense before him (for years; even in the MDA years the ball wouldn’t move....you could blame whoever) or there were times we could legit say the defense is fine. Give the man some credit. He’s done a fine job. He can’t shoot the shot or guard a man. I’d love to know this created player coach that would take this guard poor team minus its second best player and do a better job. I think as a man and coach he’s doing right by the team and by the kid.

The longer you use minutes to hold him accountable, the better control you have over his development. Jeff is doing a fine job with his development. Every other game we see more. He eggs him on to be aggressive both publicly and I’m sure behind closed doors. We need to learn patience here and temper our expectations of a 19 year old kid who’s from a whole ‘nother world. They’re not all KP. The kids been in this country for six months and he’s contributing.

Imagine when he’s 21. No need to rush.
There is no urgency.
BLACKFEET 2010
Head Coach
Posts: 6,773
And1: 1,090
Joined: Jun 26, 2009

Re: Shams: Knicks and Trey Burke in Serious Talks on a deal 

Post#458 » by BLACKFEET 2010 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:53 am

Sark wrote:How long does it take to call up a fcking point guard from Westchester? Organization can't even do the simple things correctly.

Riiight. Cuz you’re getting impatient.
Da ThRONe
Senior
Posts: 647
And1: 314
Joined: Sep 26, 2016
   

Re: Shams: Knicks and Trey Burke in Serious Talks on a deal 

Post#459 » by Da ThRONe » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:29 am

BLACKFEET 2010 wrote:
Carl_Karlson wrote:
Huey Freeman wrote:If/ when we actually sign this cat, I can see Hornacek splitting Burke's minutes playing WITH Frank and some minutes with Courtney. Jeff can get him playing time without really cutting Frank's minutes.


I don't see it. Jeff hasn't done anything to show he believes in Frank or even cares about his development. Jeff is only concerned with getting wins for his resume so he can catch on anywhere else after he gets dropped from here

I hate this train of thought.

First if all, he plays the kid heavy minutes. There are times he’s ineffective and times he he needs to be reigned in like every young player. And there are even times—dig this—that he’s tired.

Jeff is doing whatever is asked of him by the FO, I’m sure. And he has a handle on the team. He’s not perfect but to suggest he’s not developing the kid speaks to the fact we’ve never seen true development here in NYC. We either overvalue middling prospects or we are spoiled by KP coming from cross seas so ready for prime time; it’s an aberration. This kid isn’t coming off the bench and making it clear to see or say he should be starting or playing more minutes than hes already playing. He’s coming along. We see flashes but until he gets aggressive and starts putting the potential into numbers consistently, he’s fine in his role.

We are still fighting to win games. Some think that’s wrong which is again short sighted. We are slipping of late and some could say it was inevitable. That’s fine. But we are still fighting. You CAN NOT hand the team over to the kids with no regard to the vets. That’s like quitting in their eyes. And if they don’t play, their marketability takes a hit. Coach’s trust maturity and experience. They know the terminology and the logic behind coach’s instructions. They have agents and agendas as well as dialogue with the front office. Promises are made and relationships exist for present and future business. Vets aren’t in the business of trying to lose for the organization to eventually draft their replacements. Vets have to play. Every sport. They set the standards and define “work” to children who don’t understand what the word means. Even when the result isn’t there, they understand what they should be doing.

Most rookies are still learning what exactly is being asked of them. You leave Frank out there to “develop” and run the risk of exposing him and breaking his confidence and of course the fan base turns on him. You know something crazy? No one ever talks about it taking a whole season damn near for Latrell Sprewell to start here. So I don’t get the pitchfork mentality of “Frank must play more!” Dude isn’t ready for more. Now could the coach stagger minutes better? I would humbly say yes. But again people think coach’s post games interviews = his coaching. Like he does nothing. As if there is no stragtegy. Like we were moving around on offense before him (for years; even in the MDA years the ball wouldn’t move....you could blame whoever) or there were times we could legit say the defense is fine. Give the man some credit. He’s done a fine job. He can’t shoot the shot or guard a man. I’d love to know this created player coach that would take this guard poor team minus its second best player and do a better job. I think as a man and coach he’s doing right by the team and by the kid.

The longer you use minutes to hold him accountable, the better control you have over his development. Jeff is doing a fine job with his development. Every other game we see more. He eggs him on to be aggressive both publicly and I’m sure behind closed doors. We need to learn patience here and temper our expectations of a 19 year old kid who’s from a whole ‘nother world. They’re not all KP. The kids been in this country for six months and he’s contributing.

Imagine when he’s 21. No need to rush.
There is no urgency.


I've tired to stress this to some people here. Forcing a players into mins and/or roles they clearly aren't ready for isn't how you properly develop them. Especially young ones. If Frank was ready for more he'd probably get more. I mean as unexpected as Jack's play has been he's certainly not setting the world on fire.
blanko
Senior
Posts: 514
And1: 172
Joined: Mar 14, 2015

Re: Shams: Knicks and Trey Burke in Serious Talks on a deal 

Post#460 » by blanko » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:53 am

Can't blame jack, he has been overaching so far.
The real question is : can trey Burke actually run an offense? Are his assists due to running the offense correctly like a lead guard? Or is he like a inefficient wesrbrook/Rose? Meaning he drives to the land in a subpar league and tosses it out as a last resort?

Return to New York Knicks