PG: Knicks bulls game thread 7:30 P.M 1/10

[Sark]

Just a question. Did Jeff give a statement where he excused that stuff?

No but he's continued to play guys that don't hustle on defense, like Jack and Beasley, with no repercussions, meanwhile he's had a short string for others when they make one mistake.

Sure, but what does that have to do with what happens behind closed doors in film sessions?

It's that reference that drew my question.

You can infer by his actions. At the very least he's not holding certain players accountable. He's playing his vets and chosen guys, through hell or high water.

[whocares1]

Maybe Phil was right and we should have traded KP and then draft Markkanen (Who looked like the better UNICORN last night!)

Lauri doesn't have the defensive ceiling that KP has. Lauri is the better pure shooter tho.

[OpiumDose]

We do use KP the same as they did in Latvia, the opponent's defense is just crappier:

Watch on YouTube

Nonsense. Not even close. And you would know that if you actually watched the tournament and saw how Latvia played Showing highlights from a game against one of the weakest teams in the group (along with Great Britain) doesn't mean anything. Latvia played against some of the best teams (and defenses) in Europe - Serbia, Turkey, Russia and champions Slovenia. KP scored many more baskets on cut passes, PnR, lobs. He attempted as many three point shots there in 27 mpg as he does now in 33 mpg. Some of the brilliant passes that he got from his teammates I have never seen him get from his fellow Knicks.

On average NBA defenses are probably bit better than what he faced on Eurobasket, but only people who didn't watch how Latvia played (not just KP, but team overall) would claim that he was used the same way as he is now on the Knicks. It would be impossible as Latvia played fast paced, dynamic, motion offense oriented basketball - it was super fun to watch. Knicks on the other hand, for the most part, play stale and slow basketball that's based more on isolation and post-up plays than it is on transition offense, PnR, cuts and drives.

Well this should be easy then: post a bunch of highlights of plays Latvia runs for KP that we aren't. And we know KP isn't getting easy baskets from our PGs, but I'm talking about where he's getting the ball on the floor. It looks exactly the same as what we do which makes sense because we've tried to please him.

I would do that if I really cared to convince that what I'm saying is right, but I don't care enough to put the effort in to actually now look through the highlights and search for plays that support what I'm saying. If you really are interested then there is no problem for you to check the highlights on your own on youtube - if I remember correctly there were many fantastic passes in match against Turkey, as well as in match against Slovenia. But there were fantastic plays in pretty much every single match and some of them you will not find on those highlight reels because not all of them ended with KP scoring the basket - some he missed, some were scored by others, etc. But as I said - I don't think anybody who actually watched Latvia in Eurobasket (I saw all 7 games from start to finish) would say that KP is used the same by the Knicks.

And while in Eurobasket defenses were not so locked in on stopping KP (because Latvia actually had a fantastic starting five where pretty much every single player was a real threat, unlike on Knicks), the best teams still respected him and watched him very closely and to claim that he did well only because the defenses were not up to par compared with NBA would be ignorant and unfair (and I'm not saying that you are claiming that, I'm just saying). Here's KP facing a quadruple team

[Sark]

Maybe Phil was right and we should have traded KP and then draft Markkanen (Who looked like the better UNICORN last night!)

Lauri doesn't have the defensive ceiling that KP has. Lauri is the better pure shooter tho.

He's not a better shooter than KP. He just has an offense, and teammates that get him the ball better.

[whocares1]

Maybe Phil was right and we should have traded KP and then draft Markkanen (Who looked like the better UNICORN last night!)

Lauri doesn't have the defensive ceiling that KP has. Lauri is the better pure shooter tho.

He's not a better shooter than KP. He just has an offense, and teammates that get him the ball better.

KP has perfect form but he's misses a ton of open shots. Lauri is the more lethal three point shooter and KP is the better mid range shooter.

[OpiumDose]

Lauri doesn't have the defensive ceiling that KP has. Lauri is the better pure shooter tho.

He's not a better shooter than KP. He just has an offense, and teammates that get him the ball better.

KP has perfect form but he's misses a ton of open shots. Lauri is the more lethal three point shooter and KP is the better mid range shooter.

KP currently shoots 37.2% from 3pt. Markkanen shoots 37.0%. And 50% (3.0 attempts per game) of Markkanen's shots from 3pt line are wide open (closest defender 6+ feet away) since he plays on trash team and is not really a focal point of opponent defenses, but when his shots are not wide open his shooting percentage plummets - Markkanen shoots only 28.0% from 3pt line on open shots (closest defender 4-6 feet away) on 3.0 attempts per game.

[BeagleBoss]

Lauri doesn't have the defensive ceiling that KP has. Lauri is the better pure shooter tho.

He's not a better shooter than KP. He just has an offense, and teammates that get him the ball better.

KP has perfect form but he's misses a ton of open shots. Lauri is the more lethal three point shooter and KP is the better mid range shooter.

Markkenan shoots .367 from three and KP shoots .372.

Neither are lethal shooters yet.

[Greenie]

Maybe Phil was right and we should have traded KP and then draft Markkanen (Who looked like the better UNICORN last night!)

Lauri doesn't have the defensive ceiling that KP has. Lauri is the better pure shooter tho.

He's not a better shooter than KP. He just has an offense, and teammates that get him the ball better.

Nah. He's a better shooter. He came in the NBA as a known shooter. It's his biggest strength.

[GONYK]

see this is where I don't respect Jeff....look at beasley and lee "two of jeffs vets". Walking back and drifting on defense. I would rip them a new one in the video session. I would say are you tired? If your tired I have plenty of young guys that would love to play. If your not tired then you are just lazy and you can take a seat on the bench.

The fact Jeff excuses this lazy behavior is not developing a "culture" Mills/Perry. These guys should be yanked out of the game immediately.

Just a question. Did Jeff give a statement where he excused that stuff?

By continuing to play them and having the same issues happen game in and game out. This is not the first time we have drifted on defense or not ran back...that obviously means he is excusing this.

Saying come on guys we need to do better is excusing this play

Sitting there ass down when it happens is the only way to nip it in the butt.

We aren't talking about a superstar player either. THe knicks don't have enough good players to have guys half assing it down the court. You don't play the right way we have similar talented players that will play for you.

This was suppose to be a culture building year about playing defense. They did say this. Yet I haven't seen one play yanked out of a game because of poor lackadaisical defense.

I have seen guys yanked out for poor offense though...

Don't disagree. Just wanted to know if he said something to excuse them.

The Beasley half-assed D in the OT was egregious and insanely costly.

[EchelonNYK]

Jarrett Jack had the quietest triple double last night. A ant fart basically.

[King of Canada]

He's not a better shooter than KP. He just has an offense, and teammates that get him the ball better.

KP has perfect form but he's misses a ton of open shots. Lauri is the more lethal three point shooter and KP is the better mid range shooter.

Markkenan shoots .367 from three and KP shoots .372.

Neither are lethal shooters yet.

I like the arc on Lauri's shot better. I think that if KP worked on that his % would go up.

[Sark]

Lauri doesn't have the defensive ceiling that KP has. Lauri is the better pure shooter tho.

He's not a better shooter than KP. He just has an offense, and teammates that get him the ball better.

Nah. He's a better shooter. He came in the NBA as a known shooter. It's his biggest strength.

The difference between their shooting is negligible. It's not like Lauri is a next level shooter, and KP is a Rondo level shooter. If anything, I'd say KP has much better range, and can stretch out to 25ft and beyond.

Put KP in the Hoiberg offense that he was gushing about, and he'd perform better.

[MissileMike]

Lauri doesn't have the defensive ceiling that KP has. Lauri is the better pure shooter tho.

He's not a better shooter than KP. He just has an offense, and teammates that get him the ball better.

Nah. He's a better shooter. He came in the NBA as a known shooter. It's his biggest strength.

Bulls fan here, congrats on the tank loss. I really thought the bulls would pull it out and get that L, but it was not to be.

Anyway, reading this and the game thread, the amount of hyperbole on this board is crazy. We (bulls fans) love Lauri... but come on, it was one single game. I'd drive Lauri to the airport myself to trade him for KP. KP has a ceiling of league MVP. My only worry for him would be "tall dude" injuries that seem to plague the 7'2"+ players.

[BeagleBoss]

KP is not a finished product. I truly believe once he gets a good PG, supporting cast, shooters and a real NBA coach, he's going to be a Top 5 player and an MVP candidate.

Fight me.

[KnicksGod]

You get KP to focus on D and some easier scores. Stop jump shooting almost entirely, and certainly stop getting up as many shots as he is until he's more efficient.

Simple. Oh and play him with Frank more and who cares about Frank's O either.

Just because the chatter is one way shouldn't dictate how you run your team. It's like Horny is reading the NY Post which says 'The KP Era has begun' and that's what's dictating his coaching. No.

[Sark]

He's not a better shooter than KP. He just has an offense, and teammates that get him the ball better.

Nah. He's a better shooter. He came in the NBA as a known shooter. It's his biggest strength.

Bulls fan here, congrats on the tank loss. I really thought the bulls would pull it out and get that L, but it was not to be.

Anyway, reading this and the game thread, the amount of hyperbole on this board is crazy. We (bulls fans) love Lauri... but come on, it was one single game. I'd drive Lauri to the airport myself to trade him for KP. KP has a ceiling of league MVP. My only worry for him would be "tall dude" injuries that seem to plague the 7'2"+ players.

In NY, if you can't win MVP by year 3, then we just don't have time for you. On to the next one.

[RememberLu]

I don't watch every Knicks game like you guys but I'm surprised to see so much complaining in here about KP. You guys are relying way too much on the corpse of Michael Beasley and Jarret Jack. To an outsider's eyes, KP is the last of your problems. Put some talent around him

[Sark]

I don't watch every Knicks game like you guys but I'm surprised to see so much complaining in here about KP. You guys are relying way too much on the corpse of Michael Beasley and Jarret Jack. To an outsider's eyes, KP is the last of your problems. Put some talent around him

Oh don't you worry. We're putting Trey Burke and pick #14 Draft2018 around him.

[shtolky]

He's not a better shooter than KP. He just has an offense, and teammates that get him the ball better.

Nah. He's a better shooter. He came in the NBA as a known shooter. It's his biggest strength.

Bulls fan here, congrats on the tank loss. I really thought the bulls would pull it out and get that L, but it was not to be.

Anyway, reading this and the game thread, the amount of hyperbole on this board is crazy. We (bulls fans) love Lauri... but come on, it was one single game. I'd drive Lauri to the airport myself to trade him for KP. KP has a ceiling of league MVP. My only worry for him would be "tall dude" injuries that seem to plague the 7'2"+ players.

Stick around a while, you'll see it's a daily occurrence.

[seren]

I watched Frank carefully. I think he is really a good player. Most of his struggles are about confidence and playing tight. He would look incredible if we had DAntoni as our coach. Unfortunately, Hornacek is not the right coach for his development.