ImageImageImageImageImage

PG: Knicks bulls game thread 7:30 P.M 1/10

Moderators: moocow007, magnumt, FrontOfficeEye, GONYK, NoLayupRule, Deeeez Knicks, Thugger HBC, Capn'O, K-DOT, j4remi, Thorn, Jeff Van Gully, King of Canada, mrpoetryNmotion, mpharris36

User avatar
MP4LIFE
Analyst
Posts: 3,671
And1: 2,626
Joined: Jul 15, 2016
 

Re: PG: Knicks bulls game thread 7:30 P.M 1/10 

Post#541 » by MP4LIFE » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:02 pm

Sark wrote:
RememberLu wrote:I don't watch every Knicks game like you guys but I'm surprised to see so much complaining in here about KP. You guys are relying way too much on the corpse of Michael Beasley and Jarret Jack. To an outsider's eyes, KP is the last of your problems. Put some talent around him



Oh don't you worry. We're putting Trey Burke and pick #14 Draft2018 around him.

Image
Dolan's record as owner of NYK as of 4/6/18: 603-852
User avatar
Greenie
RealGM
Posts: 52,952
And1: 26,054
Joined: Feb 25, 2010
Location: Killigan's Island
     

Re: PG: Knicks bulls game thread 7:30 P.M 1/10 

Post#542 » by Greenie » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:03 pm

Sark wrote:
Greenie wrote:
Sark wrote:
He's not a better shooter than KP. He just has an offense, and teammates that get him the ball better.

Nah. He's a better shooter. He came in the NBA as a known shooter. It's his biggest strength.


The difference between their shooting is negligible. It's not like Lauri is a next level shooter, and KP is a Rondo level shooter. If anything, I'd say KP has much better range, and can stretch out to 25ft and beyond.

Put KP in the Hoiberg offense that he was gushing about, and he'd perform better.

I disagree.



His biggest strength is his shooting. He's a rookie. His shooting is getting better as we get further into the season. Shooting is what he does.

KP is the better defender.
BAF - Pistons
C:Vucevic|Chandler|Okafor
F:Morris|Aminu|Anigbogu
F:Thompson|Lee|
G:Richardson|Trent Jr|
G:Brogdon|Joseph|
Head Coach - Dwane Casey
IR
Jimmit79
Pro Prospect
Posts: 896
And1: 339
Joined: Mar 22, 2016
     

Re: PG: Knicks bulls game thread 7:30 P.M 1/10 

Post#543 » by Jimmit79 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:08 pm

I would never complain about KP even if his shots aren't falling his defense is still there every night.
User avatar
Sark
RealGM
Posts: 13,481
And1: 8,238
Joined: Sep 21, 2010
Location: Location: Location:
 

Re: PG: Knicks bulls game thread 7:30 P.M 1/10 

Post#544 » by Sark » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:08 pm

Greenie wrote:
Sark wrote:
Greenie wrote:Nah. He's a better shooter. He came in the NBA as a known shooter. It's his biggest strength.


The difference between their shooting is negligible. It's not like Lauri is a next level shooter, and KP is a Rondo level shooter. If anything, I'd say KP has much better range, and can stretch out to 25ft and beyond.

Put KP in the Hoiberg offense that he was gushing about, and he'd perform better.

I disagree.



His biggest strength is his shooting. He's a rookie. His shooting is getting better as we get further into the season. Shooting is what he does.

KP is the better defender.



I don't disagree that Lauri is a good shooter. But he's not on a level above KP. They are the same level.


However, if you put Lauri on the Knicks, he would brick just as much if not more than KP. Because Knicks.
#KnicksREBUILD
Jimmit79
Pro Prospect
Posts: 896
And1: 339
Joined: Mar 22, 2016
     

Re: PG: Knicks bulls game thread 7:30 P.M 1/10 

Post#545 » by Jimmit79 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:12 pm

Lauri ran away from KP once KP started blocking his shots and rolo started screening KP to get lauri away from KP rofl
User avatar
KnicksGod
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 48,850
And1: 12,115
Joined: Oct 10, 2003
   

Re: PG: Knicks bulls game thread 7:30 P.M 1/10 

Post#546 » by KnicksGod » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:17 pm

seren wrote:I watched Frank carefully. I think he is really a good player. Most of his struggles are about confidence and playing tight. He would look incredible if we had DAntoni as our coach. Unfortunately, Hornacek is not the right coach for his development.
Image
Juco24
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,346
And1: 697
Joined: Feb 12, 2013

Re: PG: Knicks bulls game thread 7:30 P.M 1/10 

Post#547 » by Juco24 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:19 pm

On another note... how bad does that Rose for Lopez trade look now???
User avatar
mpharris36
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 52,673
And1: 23,649
Joined: Nov 03, 2010
     

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: PG: Knicks bulls game thread 7:30 P.M 1/10 

Post#548 » by mpharris36 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:20 pm

GONYK wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
GONYK wrote:Just a question. Did Jeff give a statement where he excused that stuff?



By continuing to play them and having the same issues happen game in and game out. This is not the first time we have drifted on defense or not ran back...that obviously means he is excusing this.

Saying come on guys we need to do better is excusing this play

Sitting there ass down when it happens is the only way to nip it in the butt.

We aren't talking about a superstar player either. THe knicks don't have enough good players to have guys half assing it down the court. You don't play the right way we have similar talented players that will play for you.

This was suppose to be a culture building year about playing defense. They did say this. Yet I haven't seen one play yanked out of a game because of poor lackadaisical defense.

I have seen guys yanked out for poor offense though...
Don't disagree. Just wanted to know if he said something to excuse them.

The Beasley half-assed D in the OT was egregious and insanely costly.


Nah no one really brings it up. Obviously KP struggles is such a topic of discussion people forget what the Mills/Perry wanted for this year. We wanted to be a young defensive minded team that plays hard.

Yet the coach doesn't seem to hold any accountable for not running back on defense or not making the right rotation. Yet he does take people out for turning the ball over or bad offensive execution.

Jeff said a week ago or so that Lance was starting because they want to bring defensive intensity out of the gate...but then starts Jack and Kanter to known poor defenders (kanter sometimes has moments but is reverting back to bad defense).

No culture will change unless there are consepquences. Lee in the OT was half assing it the entire time. I don't get it. If you see the lack of effort (whether its because he's tired) sub him out. There is no excuse for having players jog back on defense.

Like I said the talent decrepancy between out starters to our 3rd stringers isn't that great where you couldn't put Dotson in or take out Beasley if he's just going rogue on defense.

He left beasley in the entire 4th and overitme and he was a sh*t show after the hot first half. How is that coaching and how will anyone learn? Jeff is really f*cking up here and so our Mills/Perry for not making jeff be accountable for holding the players accountable.
BAF Spurs:

C - Anthony Davis/Richaun Holmes/Papagiannis
PF - Michael Porter Jr/Kevin Hervey
SF - Jaylen Brown/Tomas Satoransky
SG - E'twaun Moore/Lonnie Walker/Wayne Seldon
PG - Kyle Lowry/Shabazz Napier/Tony Carr

$33 cap remaining
User avatar
Sark
RealGM
Posts: 13,481
And1: 8,238
Joined: Sep 21, 2010
Location: Location: Location:
 

Re: PG: Knicks bulls game thread 7:30 P.M 1/10 

Post#549 » by Sark » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:24 pm

Juco24 wrote:On another note... how bad does that Rose for Lopez trade look now???



Well we got Holiday and Dotson for him. If we held onto Holiday and played Dotson more, the trade would look better.
#KnicksREBUILD
User avatar
HarthorneWingo
Knicks Forum Grandpa's Law
Posts: 45,685
And1: 16,351
Joined: May 16, 2005
   

Re: PG: Knicks bulls game thread 7:30 P.M 1/10 

Post#550 » by HarthorneWingo » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:24 pm

I think Lauri has a better handle than KP. KP's dribbling has be limited because of his height. His dribble is too high for hard double teams.
Image
User avatar
Greenie
RealGM
Posts: 52,952
And1: 26,054
Joined: Feb 25, 2010
Location: Killigan's Island
     

Re: PG: Knicks bulls game thread 7:30 P.M 1/10 

Post#551 » by Greenie » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:28 pm

Sark wrote:
Greenie wrote:
Sark wrote:
The difference between their shooting is negligible. It's not like Lauri is a next level shooter, and KP is a Rondo level shooter. If anything, I'd say KP has much better range, and can stretch out to 25ft and beyond.

Put KP in the Hoiberg offense that he was gushing about, and he'd perform better.

I disagree.



His biggest strength is his shooting. He's a rookie. His shooting is getting better as we get further into the season. Shooting is what he does.

KP is the better defender.



I don't disagree that Lauri is a good shooter. But he's not on a level above KP. They are the same level.


However, if you put Lauri on the Knicks, he would brick just as much if not more than KP. Because Knicks.

We disagree. KP isn't on Lauri's level when it comes to shooting the rock.
BAF - Pistons
C:Vucevic|Chandler|Okafor
F:Morris|Aminu|Anigbogu
F:Thompson|Lee|
G:Richardson|Trent Jr|
G:Brogdon|Joseph|
Head Coach - Dwane Casey
IR
User avatar
mpharris36
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 52,673
And1: 23,649
Joined: Nov 03, 2010
     

Re: PG: Knicks bulls game thread 7:30 P.M 1/10 

Post#552 » by mpharris36 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:28 pm

seren wrote:I watched Frank carefully. I think he is really a good player. Most of his struggles are about confidence and playing tight. He would look incredible if we had DAntoni as our coach. Unfortunately, Hornacek is not the right coach for his development.


as someone very high on frank I think this is correct. And i don't want to make excuses. But Jeff has shown his lack of trust and respect for younger players. He comes from the Sloan way of coaching and Sloan loved vets and played them because you could trust them.

A developing rebuilding year is something Jeff has no idea how to manage. He is also coaching for his life because new management who didn't pick him will be making a decision on him at the end of the year and his thought process is probably every win counts.

They talk about youth and defense but the only time players are held accountable and yanked out of a game our because of turnovers and bad offense. Have you seen anyone yanked out of the game for letting someone blow by him or missing a rotation or jogging back on defense? I can't remember one instance.

So the same thing Mills/Perry were preaching in the offseason....Youth, Defense, commitment to hard play is not being stressed by the head coach...in turn he cares about scoring and putting the ball in the basket.

Anyone can see frank is very raw on offense and is overthinking at times. When you have a coach that will yank you after a bad turnover or a missed shot of course as a young player you will get gun shy.

That is on Jeff and I can't wait for his bum azz to be fired.
BAF Spurs:

C - Anthony Davis/Richaun Holmes/Papagiannis
PF - Michael Porter Jr/Kevin Hervey
SF - Jaylen Brown/Tomas Satoransky
SG - E'twaun Moore/Lonnie Walker/Wayne Seldon
PG - Kyle Lowry/Shabazz Napier/Tony Carr

$33 cap remaining
HEZI
RealGM
Posts: 25,922
And1: 8,218
Joined: Nov 16, 2004
 

Re: PG: Knicks bulls game thread 7:30 P.M 1/10 

Post#553 » by HEZI » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:28 pm

Juco24 wrote:On another note... how bad does that Rose for Lopez trade look now???


The expiring contract of Rose allowed the THJR signing. So it depends on whether or not you like THJR then it could either be considered real good or real bad :lol:

Also I'm not sure which 2nd round pick was used on Dotson and which one was used on Jaramaz. If the Bulls 2nd round pick that we got from Chicago was used on Dotson then that's another good pickup. If it was used on Jaramaz then it was a wasted pick.
DENVER NUGGETS

PG: John Wall / Reggie Jackson / Devonte Graham
SG: Demar Derozan / Sindarius Thornwell / D.Bembry
SF: Stanley Johnson / Darius Miller / Kelan Martin
PF: Patrick Patterson / Mo Speights / DFS
C: Brook Lopez / B.Biyombo / Chimezie Metu
User avatar
King of Canada
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 13,159
And1: 8,300
Joined: Nov 03, 2005
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
   

Re: PG: Knicks bulls game thread 7:30 P.M 1/10 

Post#554 » by King of Canada » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:29 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:I think Lauri has a better handle than KP. KP's dribbling has be limited because of his height. His dribble is too high for hard double teams.


Saying that, Lauri completely and totally carried the ball on that dunk last night :banghead:
BAF Pacers
Dragic/Knight/Mason
Doncic/******
Osman/Evans
Markkanen/J. Jackson
Porzingis/Giles/Pasecniks
Exempt F. Jackson

2018 cap space- $77
User avatar
GONYK
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 53,276
And1: 18,624
Joined: Jun 27, 2003
Location: Frankie N Baby
   

Re: RE: Re: PG: Knicks bulls game thread 7:30 P.M 1/10 

Post#555 » by GONYK » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:31 pm

Sark wrote:
Juco24 wrote:On another note... how bad does that Rose for Lopez trade look now???



Well we got Holiday and Dotson for him. If we held onto Holiday and played Dotson more, the trade would look better.
Technically, we also got Hardaway and Noah too from the deal
User avatar
Dr. Detfink
RealGM
Posts: 17,605
And1: 4,028
Joined: Dec 31, 2005
Location: NYC
Contact:
       

Re: PG: Knicks bulls game thread 7:30 P.M 1/10 

Post#556 » by Dr. Detfink » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:35 pm

This franchise is at a unique cross road.

Um, the Knicks have a log jam of bigs but hate to say this, all of them are very, very limited. None of them fit Jeff Hornacek version of former coach Doug Moe-tion offense that became en vogue again.
Billy Goat
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,589
And1: 619
Joined: Mar 08, 2017
 

Re: PG: Knicks bulls game thread 7:30 P.M 1/10 

Post#557 » by Billy Goat » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:36 pm

HEZI wrote:
Juco24 wrote:On another note... how bad does that Rose for Lopez trade look now???


The expiring contract of Rose allowed the THJR signing. So it depends on whether or not you like THJR then it could either be considered real good or real bad :lol:

Also I'm not sure which 2nd round pick was used on Dotson and which one was used on Jaramaz. If the Bulls 2nd round pick that we got from Chicago was used on Dotson then that's another good pickup. If it was used on Jaramaz then it was a wasted pick.


For a team that's obviously rebuilding- Holiday at 2 years 9 million seems a lot better than whatever absurd contract they gave Hardaway- who's in witness protection.
HEZI
RealGM
Posts: 25,922
And1: 8,218
Joined: Nov 16, 2004
 

Re: PG: Knicks bulls game thread 7:30 P.M 1/10 

Post#558 » by HEZI » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:42 pm

Billy Goat wrote:
HEZI wrote:
Juco24 wrote:On another note... how bad does that Rose for Lopez trade look now???


The expiring contract of Rose allowed the THJR signing. So it depends on whether or not you like THJR then it could either be considered real good or real bad :lol:

Also I'm not sure which 2nd round pick was used on Dotson and which one was used on Jaramaz. If the Bulls 2nd round pick that we got from Chicago was used on Dotson then that's another good pickup. If it was used on Jaramaz then it was a wasted pick.


For a team that's obviously rebuilding- Holiday at 2 years 9 million seems a lot better than whatever absurd contract they gave Hardaway- who's in witness protection.


Yeah this is how I felt about it as well. I've accepted it now, it is what it is. I'm trying to appreciate THJ even though we could and maybe should have taken a different route. Hopefully he can just continue to get better and elevate his game to the point where he's at least earning his deal. That's all we could ask for at this point.
DENVER NUGGETS

PG: John Wall / Reggie Jackson / Devonte Graham
SG: Demar Derozan / Sindarius Thornwell / D.Bembry
SF: Stanley Johnson / Darius Miller / Kelan Martin
PF: Patrick Patterson / Mo Speights / DFS
C: Brook Lopez / B.Biyombo / Chimezie Metu
Jeff Van Gully
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 13,928
And1: 7,092
Joined: Jul 31, 2010
Location: Harlem
       

Re: PG: Knicks bulls game thread 7:30 P.M 1/10 

Post#559 » by Jeff Van Gully » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:45 pm

Billy Goat wrote:
HEZI wrote:
Juco24 wrote:On another note... how bad does that Rose for Lopez trade look now???


The expiring contract of Rose allowed the THJR signing. So it depends on whether or not you like THJR then it could either be considered real good or real bad :lol:

Also I'm not sure which 2nd round pick was used on Dotson and which one was used on Jaramaz. If the Bulls 2nd round pick that we got from Chicago was used on Dotson then that's another good pickup. If it was used on Jaramaz then it was a wasted pick.


For a team that's obviously rebuilding- Holiday at 2 years 9 million seems a lot better than whatever absurd contract they gave Hardaway- who's in witness protection.


THJ got a starter's salary and he's looking like he has all-star potential. that deal about to be a bargain. a gamble at the time, but looks to be paying off. is witness protection your way of referring to an in-season injury?

justin holiday is what he is, a rotation guard. good defender, smart player, limited offense. 29 years old. why would it make sense to retain him long-term when we're working with a much younger timeline?
que sera sera
Jeff Van Gully
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 13,928
And1: 7,092
Joined: Jul 31, 2010
Location: Harlem
       

Re: PG: Knicks bulls game thread 7:30 P.M 1/10 

Post#560 » by Jeff Van Gully » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:46 pm

HEZI wrote:
Billy Goat wrote:
HEZI wrote:
The expiring contract of Rose allowed the THJR signing. So it depends on whether or not you like THJR then it could either be considered real good or real bad :lol:

Also I'm not sure which 2nd round pick was used on Dotson and which one was used on Jaramaz. If the Bulls 2nd round pick that we got from Chicago was used on Dotson then that's another good pickup. If it was used on Jaramaz then it was a wasted pick.


For a team that's obviously rebuilding- Holiday at 2 years 9 million seems a lot better than whatever absurd contract they gave Hardaway- who's in witness protection.


Yeah this is how I felt about it as well. I've accepted it now, it is what it is. I'm trying to appreciate THJ even though we could and maybe should have taken a different route. Hopefully he can just continue to get better and elevate his game to the point where he's at least earning his deal. That's all we could ask for at this point.


he's earning that contract.

i was skeptical at the time of the deal too, but i get it now. he doesn't look like a half-season fluke at all. by year two that deal is a steal. you pay a lot more for tim's skill set and production.
que sera sera

Return to New York Knicks