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PG: Knicks Wolves - Newports Edition

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Re: PG: Knicks Wolves - Newports Edition 

Post#281 » by Adelheid » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:25 am

xNewYorkMadex wrote:
Adelheid wrote:
xNewYorkMadex wrote:Phil really sucked giving out contracts in FA.

The man didnt know who to go after and when to choose to just roll over the cap space for next year. We all know the atrocity of Noah, but Lance Thomas is up there too. 7 million per for 4 years. And we still have 2 yrs left w/ him.

Overrated defender too. Watch other teams around the league and you'll notice what an actual good perimeter defender looks like.


Lance really is overpaid too much for what he can give and just because he was a true veteran in terms of work ethic. Phil tried to build a team on a mantra of each player having specific roles only. It can work when you have a Michael Jordan level guy as the 1st option. Courtney Lee may not be overpaid as grossly but I see him as really just a backup sg/sf with how limited his game is.

Courtney Lee is at least tradeable, I can easily see the Knicks finding takers for him come the trade deadline.

Lance Thomas is the definition of a filler contract, just to make salaries match in a deal. But with him have 2 years left in his deal, Im sure at least some teams will balk at even accepting him as a throw in.

Im 100% sure the man has a strong work ethic, but the talent isnt there to warrant the price tag.


Yeah well that must be the culture or "culcha" that the previous regime was touting about. Why does it have to be the vet players teaching most things to the rookies? That is the job of the coaching staff!!! So is the accountability part. Sure, Kidd and Sheed and Kurt were very instrumental during that playoff run of yonder, but relying too much on tired legs who cant perform to teach guys isnt exactly what I would call coaching like what the Knicks are doing now.
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Re: PG: Knicks Wolves - Newports Edition 

Post#282 » by Nyk_Fatboy » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:40 am

xNewYorkMadex wrote:Phil really sucked giving out contracts in FA.

The man didnt know who to go after and when to choose to just roll over the cap space for next year. We all know the atrocity of Noah, but Lance Thomas is up there too. 7 million per for 4 years. And we still have 2 yrs left w/ him.

Overrated defender too. Watch other teams around the league and you'll notice what an actual good perimeter defender looks like.


You see Noah and see washed up scum. when I see Noah I see a beautiful naked goddess we paid 70 mill to be our cheerleader from the bench and she’s worth every penny
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Re: PG: Knicks Wolves - Newports Edition 

Post#283 » by Rasho Brezec » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:05 pm

Since that 4 game win streak that ended with a win over OKC a little less than a month ago, we had a .230 win %. If we keep this up, we'll win around 10 more games until the end of the season. 29 win season is a .354 win %, ending up at around 5-7 pick range. Not bad enough. Need more losses.
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Re: PG: Knicks Wolves - Newports Edition 

Post#284 » by Tron Carter » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:24 pm

Fury wrote:
Kinglee wrote:Honestly speaking is KP suppose to be an elite stretch 4? Like where do we rank him? There's plenty of jumpshooting bigs I'd take over him. His offense is overrated as ****.


Not sure who shows up less, KP this last month or you when he plays well

:lol:
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Re: PG: Knicks Wolves - Newports Edition 

Post#285 » by Apples » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:29 pm

taj2133 wrote:Frank is a big problem he not playing and kp needs to rebound basketball better it seems he get pushed around a little too much and needs to fight back. You guys wanted to play frank more but he sucked tonight and of start of 2018 he been terrible and jeff had bench him because he has flat out playing like chit. I not big trey burke fan but he could do a lot better then what frank has been doing lately and could put up same numbers as frank is right now.


This my biggest complaint with him. I watch him closely alot after a shot goes up. He's not being pushed around much, he simply doesn't go after the ball. There was a game earlier in the season, at the very end, he was standing right at the basket and didn't go after the ball. The other team got it (it was a much smaller player too) it ended the game. Knicks still would had a shot, had he rebounded it.
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Re: PG: Knicks Wolves - Newports Edition 

Post#286 » by Tron Carter » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:34 pm

Rasho Brezec wrote:Since that 4 game win streak that ended with a win over OKC a little less than a month ago, we had a .230 win %. If we keep this up, we'll win around 10 more games until the end of the season. 29 win season is a .354 win %, ending up at around 5-7 pick range. Not bad enough. Need more losses.


shipping out lee is the catalyst.
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Re: PG: Knicks Wolves - Newports Edition 

Post#287 » by Jeff Van Gully » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:52 pm

i thought they played tough and executed well for three quarters
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Re: PG: Knicks Wolves - Newports Edition 

Post#288 » by Jeff Van Gully » Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:09 pm

Adelheid wrote:
xNewYorkMadex wrote:
Adelheid wrote:
Lance really is overpaid too much for what he can give and just because he was a true veteran in terms of work ethic. Phil tried to build a team on a mantra of each player having specific roles only. It can work when you have a Michael Jordan level guy as the 1st option. Courtney Lee may not be overpaid as grossly but I see him as really just a backup sg/sf with how limited his game is.

Courtney Lee is at least tradeable, I can easily see the Knicks finding takers for him come the trade deadline.

Lance Thomas is the definition of a filler contract, just to make salaries match in a deal. But with him have 2 years left in his deal, Im sure at least some teams will balk at even accepting him as a throw in.

Im 100% sure the man has a strong work ethic, but the talent isnt there to warrant the price tag.


Yeah well that must be the culture or "culcha" that the previous regime was touting about. Why does it have to be the vet players teaching most things to the rookies? That is the job of the coaching staff!!! So is the accountability part. Sure, Kidd and Sheed and Kurt were very instrumental during that playoff run of yonder, but relying too much on tired legs who cant perform to teach guys isnt exactly what I would call coaching like what the Knicks are doing now.


courtney lee is underpaid and took a discount to come here
que sera sera
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Re: PG: Knicks Wolves - Newports Edition 

Post#289 » by Reign23 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:59 pm

we are only playing 2 young guns, and these 2 suck currently. man oh man..
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Re: PG: Knicks Wolves - Newports Edition 

Post#290 » by vallen » Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:04 pm

Jeff Van Gully wrote:i thought they played tough and executed well for three quarters


thats all we can hope for. I mean those were the expectations for the season at first. Then people starting acting like we have the talent of the Warriors, and Hornys leaving allstars rotting on the bench. now every time he leaves someones favorite roleplayer on the bench thats the difference in the game. :lol: Or if KP was playing Center then we would be winning. :lol:

the fact is we dont have very much talent, and were going to lose to better teams, especially on the road.

Not to mention our Franchise player thinks he can just throw up any god awful shot on the planet and its going to go in. seriously looks like hes given up trying. Time to start Frank and decide if we should draft Sexton, because hes being projected as an 8th pick, and that isnt out of the question anymore. were sliding fast.
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Re: PG: Knicks Wolves - Newports Edition 

Post#291 » by Jay10 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:04 pm

HEZI wrote:
Dantares wrote:Kp has got to show up to camp at least 247 pounds next season. If you are going to lose 7 pounds during every season then 240 pounds keeps you strong enough to post up those small ball 4's and absorb contact better on drives so you can finish through the contact. Seriously a 7'3 guy that weighs 235 pounds or less is not going to establish deep post position against anyone. I bet some posters here could easily take down kp in a wrestling match because of his lanky frame and lack of leverage.


He needs to spend the summer with Enes and follow his workout routine


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This is something i always wonder:

If a teammate is a good defensive player, does a teammate who lacks that ability on the defensive end go to him and say, "Can you help me with my defense?", or is there too much pride for that to happen?
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Re: Knicks Wolves PG- Newports Edition 

Post#292 » by thebuzzardman » Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:29 pm

BenLaw wrote:
Sark wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:

People don't want to admit it, but KP is a big part of the Knicks problems the last 2 weeks



No. The only reason the Knicks are even close to a competitive team is because of KP.

No one's buying that BS line anymore. NOT TRUE. FAKE NEWS.


You know, both can be true.
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Re: PG: Knicks Wolves - Newports Edition 

Post#293 » by thebuzzardman » Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:31 pm

Juggynaut wrote:U guys complain we suck but we overachieved with this roster. We were suppose to be bad and were projected to be a bottom 5 team but KP's hot start + other players stepping up won us a lot of early games. This team's ceiling has always been being mediocre.

The Knicks wanting to win with vets over focusing on building for the future is my only complaint. But I'm a tank guy so I'm wishing for any Ls.


Well, on my part it's a combination of venting, but also acknowledging what you are saying.

And I'd rather we be that bottom 5 team and hopefully the FO gets down to business making sure that happens.
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Re: PG: Knicks Wolves - Newports Edition 

Post#294 » by thebuzzardman » Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:36 pm

Jeff Van Gully wrote:i thought they played tough and executed well for three quarters


Actually true.

My take is that neither team played much defense in the first two quarters but the Knicks hit enough shots and the Wolves randomly turned the ball over enough to where it was tied. Everyone on the Knicks played well enough and my general impression was the spacing and play looked better when THJr was out there.

For the 2nd half, KP was immediately noticeable as just not that good, rushing shots etc, but the whole team just came out unprepared.

KT did what impact players do, which is score points that you notice and put your team ahead, something KP doesn't do all that often.

Then it got close again for a bit with Jack/Beasley/KOQ and whoever else and then Jeff masterly subbed in Frank and KP and they played the worst basketball together I've seen all year. The end. (Well, after that everyone else joined in the suck)
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Re: PG: Knicks Wolves - Newports Edition 

Post#295 » by Reign23 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:35 pm

why can't the **** jazz win more games -.-
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Re: PG: Knicks Wolves - Newports Edition 

Post#296 » by bigtimeRC3 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:20 pm

Jack is a bad starting pg. he's a career backup getting starters minutes. Expecting to win with him as the point guard at the age of 34 is hilarious and Scott perry /mills and hornacek should be ashamed of themselves for the **** they are pulling if they don't want to tank.
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Re: Knicks Wolves PG- Newports Edition 

Post#297 » by Mecca » Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:21 pm

dakomish23 wrote:
Mecca wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
I see this is your go to defense mechanism when you get proven wrong. Some version of “why you getting tight?”.

Eric Gordon put up big numbers last season and won 6th man of the year.

Throw out your good numbers means he has to start argument.

HOU had the best SG in the NBA and still went and spent 50 mil+ on another SG. And they went and traded for another one in Lou Will.

Throw out your can’t double dip on SGs argument.

Eric Gordon is in the top 10-12 SGs.

Throw out your “where you rank amongst SGs should dictate if you start” argument.

I’m not getting tight. I even conceded THJ could prove me wrong. I’m just systematically backing my point with facts, not just opinions.

You sound like you’re getting a little emo b/c I keep proving my point instead of blindly buying your opinion as gospel.

It’s not that serious homey



Naah, the funny thing is, that's what you really do. You get your panties in a bunch whenever someone proves you wrong, thus you land in a lot of arguments.

You asked to "systematically back up your points with facts." First off, systematically doesn't even work in that sentence so stop trying to use larger words to make your point more accurate. Newsflash, that's not how it works. Go ask any Law student or journalism professor. The first thing they'll tell you is how to say more with less.

Lastly, THJ has posted 20/5/4 and 1.4 SPG with good peripheral percentages and you keep saying those numbers are "6th man" numbers. On what team? lol JR Smith was never as consistent as THJ has been since he got the jitters out of his system.

You want a 3 and D guy next to Frank. You'd get smoked trying to compete in the "build a teams" by us if that's your idea. Frank needs an assertive 2 guard that is going to penetrate and shoot difficult shots when no one is open. You put Frank with a 3 and D guy and you're not getting any dribble penetration outside of your guards and most likely you're getting a lack of scoring.

You're wrong dakomish. I mostly avoid confrontations with you because you always think you're right. Ask the majority of this board if THJ is a 6th man or starting caliber player. I'd make a sig bet for a month with you that the majority would say he's a starting caliber player.

Lastly, EG is 6'3 and was a starter his entire career. He moved to the 6th man because Beverley was the perfect fit for Harden, they had no backup PG, and this year CP3 is a starter. Timmy is better than EG.

No, I won't throw out my argument about double dipping in FA at SG because you already allocated 16 million per of cap space to him. You wanna throw another 12 at Avery Bradley and spend 30 million on SG next year? Ok Isiah Thomas.

But yeah, 20/5/4 1.4 SPG 45% from the field 36% from 3 are 6th man numbers. :lol: :roll:

Lets make a bet that more people think THJ is a starter than a 6th man.


I’ve seen some dudes on this board who like to dig their heels in, but this is denial taken to a whole other level.

First things first. Systematically is a big word? In what profession is that considered a big word? That’s a common word in every business environment I’ve worked in.

On your THJ arguments, I countered on everyone of your claims:

Gets to the FT line a lot - not even top 50 per game
Top 8 SG - I listed 8 guys who everyone will say is better short of Tim Sr
Good numbers means THJ should start - Gordon had good numbers and didn’t start
Can’t double dip on SGs. - HOU not only double dipped when they had the BEST - not 10-12ish range - THE BEST - SG in the game. And to top it off they traded for another one. How’d that work out for them?
Where THJ ranks amongst SGs means he should start - Where would Gordon rank last year and where does he rank now.

On your incorrect observation regarding my stubborness on this board:

The funniest part about your latest post is in my first response to you I said I could be wrong.

But I thought I can’t admit if I’m wrong Mecca? What’s good? Why would I type that out if I’m so set on being right?

On the sig bet - you want to make a bet that this board filled with posters who defend all things Knicks 24/7 is going to say THJ is a starter? WTH would that prove? This is a group that W’s adrolling over the prospects of Tony Wroten. I wonder how they’ll vote about a guy who’s actually good :lol:
———————-

Stop getting upset & resorting to personal jabs when someone doesn’t agree with you.
Make a better case. Come at me with sound, logical basketball arguments. I’m more than happy to discuss all things Knicks with anybody on this board.

I just demolished your entire stance and I didn’t have to take a personal jab at you.

What do you think a law or journalism professor would say about that?


1. You didn't demolish anything I said. Your stats backed up my thoughts if anything so thanks for that.

2. I only gave you the same energy you gave me. You don't like it do you? I've seen BnO ether you for years now. I've ethered you on past topics (Melo, Frank, etc. etc.)

Now to this debate:

1. You want a 3 and D SG next to Frank, correct? Those are your words. I'm going to happily explain to you why that isn't a good idea. When both of your guards are passive and lack dribble penetration and the ability to take difficult shots, your offense is going to tail spin against top defenses in the half-court. Why you may ask? Dribble penetration forces the defense to move out of position to contest the shot, which opens drive and kick opportunities. Also, when both of your guards are more "flow" of game type of players, you run into trouble when going against top defenses. There are times when there is no easy shot to be had through ball movement, thus having a heatcheck player like THJ is incredibly valuable.

2. You continue to say that THJ is a 6th man. What 6th man puts up 20/5/4 with 45% from the field and 36% from 3 with 1.4 SPG. What 6th men average those numbers?? I already said he might not be top 8, but top 12ish? Hell yes. Eric Gordon is only a 6th man now because Beverley is the perfect player next to Harden and now they lucked into a CP3 trade.

3. From game 6 on, I researched the Knicks' best 3 man units. THJ is literally on every single unit. So to say he isn't a starting caliber player.... you're straight up wrong.

Image


Lastly, one more thing you don't understand is that THJ is forced to take difficult shots often because he's the only guard on our team that can create his own shot. Thus, you don't understand that and point him out as a 6th man. When the shot clock drops he's the only player that can move someone or has the ability to take a contested 3 off the dribble. The only other players that create their own shot are KP and Beasley.

Lastly, THJ's numbers since game 6-7 are 20/5/4 45% from the field, 36% from 3. Eric Gordon didn't put those numbers up last year so stop using him. Even then, he's an outlier as he's played 31/33 MPG the last year and a half. Adding on to that, Gordon is an atrocious defender at this stage in his career. He's also a combo guard as he's undersized to play the 2.


Tim Hardaway is a legit 6'6 and strong as an ox. He isn't the liability that Gordon is on the defensive end, thus he doesn't have to be a 2nd unit guy. Lastly, THJ bails the team out when the offense gets stagnant and mundane.

Lastly,

Harden
Butler
Dipo
Klay
Beal
McCollum
Derozan
Mitchell
THJ

If you count Middleton as a 2 guard, you can put him over THJ, but he still is right around 10 in terms of top SG's. He isn't a bad enough defender or small enough that he has to play the 2nd unit. Dakomish you're wrong and you've been ethered once again.


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1 | CJ McCollum | TJ McConnell | Jawun Evans
2 | Vic Oladipo | Caris LeVert | Malachi Richardson
3 | Ben Simmons | Alex Abrines | Damyean Dotson
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5 | Dwayne Dedmon | JaVale McGee
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Re: PG: Knicks Wolves - Newports Edition 

Post#298 » by Fury » Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:30 pm

I don’t know why people can’t admit when they’re wrong. When the knicks signed Hardaway for that much my first thought was wtf but the dude really is legit now. If you came away thinking he’s the same dude after the raptors game, I don’t know what to tell you
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Re: PG: Knicks Wolves - Newports Edition 

Post#299 » by j4remi » Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:38 pm

Klomp wrote:I miss the good old days of the cocky Knicks board....you guys are too apathetic.


Last night you saw the product we've been subjected to for the past month and half. Apathy is the healthiest response :lol:
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Re: PG: Knicks Wolves - Newports Edition 

Post#300 » by br7knicks » Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:46 pm

Missed game last night. Watching now. How the **** has porzingis still not figured out how to set a damn screen. Moron
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