dakomish23 wrote: Mecca wrote:
I see this is your go to defense mechanism when you get proven wrong. Some version of “why you getting tight?”.
Eric Gordon put up big numbers last season and won 6th man of the year.
Throw out your good numbers means he has to start argument.
HOU had the best SG in the NBA and still went and spent 50 mil+ on another SG. And they went and traded for another one in Lou Will.
Throw out your can’t double dip on SGs argument.
Eric Gordon is in the top 10-12 SGs.
Throw out your “where you rank amongst SGs should dictate if you start” argument.
I’m not getting tight. I even conceded THJ could prove me wrong. I’m just systematically backing my point with facts, not just opinions.
You sound like you’re getting a little emo b/c I keep proving my point instead of blindly buying your opinion as gospel.
It’s not that serious homey
Naah, the funny thing is, that's what you really do. You get your panties in a bunch whenever someone proves you wrong, thus you land in a lot of arguments.
You asked to "systematically back up your points with facts." First off, systematically doesn't even work in that sentence so stop trying to use larger words to make your point more accurate. Newsflash, that's not how it works. Go ask any Law student or journalism professor. The first thing they'll tell you is how to say more with less.
Lastly, THJ has posted 20/5/4 and 1.4 SPG with good peripheral percentages and you keep saying those numbers are "6th man" numbers. On what team? lol JR Smith was never as consistent as THJ has been since he got the jitters out of his system.
You want a 3 and D guy next to Frank. You'd get smoked trying to compete in the "build a teams" by us if that's your idea. Frank needs an assertive 2 guard that is going to penetrate and shoot difficult shots when no one is open. You put Frank with a 3 and D guy and you're not getting any dribble penetration outside of your guards and most likely you're getting a lack of scoring.
You're wrong dakomish. I mostly avoid confrontations with you because you always think you're right. Ask the majority of this board if THJ is a 6th man or starting caliber player. I'd make a sig bet for a month with you that the majority would say he's a starting caliber player.
Lastly, EG is 6'3 and was a starter his entire career. He moved to the 6th man because Beverley was the perfect fit for Harden, they had no backup PG, and this year CP3 is a starter. Timmy is better than EG.
No, I won't throw out my argument about double dipping in FA at SG because you already allocated 16 million per of cap space to him. You wanna throw another 12 at Avery Bradley and spend 30 million on SG next year? Ok Isiah Thomas.
But yeah, 20/5/4 1.4 SPG 45% from the field 36% from 3 are 6th man numbers.
Lets make a bet that more people think THJ is a starter than a 6th man.
I’ve seen some dudes on this board who like to dig their heels in, but this is denial taken to a whole other level.
First things first. Systematically is a big word? In what profession is that considered a big word? That’s a common word in every business environment I’ve worked in.
On your THJ arguments, I countered on everyone of your claims:
Gets to the FT line a lot - not even top 50 per game
Top 8 SG - I listed 8 guys who everyone will say is better short of Tim Sr
Good numbers means THJ should start - Gordon had good numbers and didn’t start
Can’t double dip on SGs. - HOU not only double dipped when they had the BEST - not 10-12ish range - THE BEST - SG in the game. And to top it off they traded for another one. How’d that work out for them?
Where THJ ranks amongst SGs means he should start - Where would Gordon rank last year and where does he rank now.
On your incorrect observation regarding my stubborness on this board:
The funniest part about your latest post is in my first response to you I said I could be wrong.
But I thought I can’t admit if I’m wrong Mecca? What’s good? Why would I type that out if I’m so set on being right?
On the sig bet - you want to make a bet that this board filled with posters who defend all things Knicks 24/7 is going to say THJ is a starter? WTH would that prove? This is a group that W’s adrolling over the prospects of Tony Wroten. I wonder how they’ll vote about a guy who’s actually good
Stop getting upset & resorting to personal jabs when someone doesn’t agree with you.
Make a better case. Come at me with sound, logical basketball arguments. I’m more than happy to discuss all things Knicks with anybody on this board.
I just demolished your entire stance and I didn’t have to take a personal jab at you.
What do you think a law or journalism professor would say about that?
1. You didn't demolish anything I said. Your stats backed up my thoughts if anything so thanks for that.
2. I only gave you the same energy you gave me. You don't like it do you? I've seen BnO ether you for years now. I've ethered you on past topics (Melo, Frank, etc. etc.)
Now to this debate:
1. You want a 3 and D SG next to Frank, correct? Those are your words. I'm going to happily explain to you why that isn't a good idea. When both of your guards are passive and lack dribble penetration and the ability to take difficult shots, your offense is going to tail spin against top defenses in the half-court. Why you may ask? Dribble penetration forces the defense to move out of position to contest the shot, which opens drive and kick opportunities. Also, when both of your guards are more "flow" of game type of players, you run into trouble when going against top defenses. There are times when there is no easy shot to be had through ball movement, thus having a heatcheck player like THJ is incredibly valuable.
2. You continue to say that THJ is a 6th man. What 6th man puts up 20/5/4 with 45% from the field and 36% from 3 with 1.4 SPG. What 6th men average those numbers?? I already said he might not be top 8, but top 12ish? Hell yes. Eric Gordon is only a 6th man now because Beverley is the perfect player next to Harden and now they lucked into a CP3 trade.
3. From game 6 on, I researched the Knicks' best 3 man units. THJ is literally on every single unit. So to say he isn't a starting caliber player.... you're straight up wrong.
Lastly, one more thing you don't understand is that THJ is forced to take difficult shots often because he's the only guard on our team that can create his own shot. Thus, you don't understand that and point him out as a 6th man. When the shot clock drops he's the only player that can move someone or has the ability to take a contested 3 off the dribble. The only other players that create their own shot are KP and Beasley.
Lastly, THJ's numbers since game 6-7 are 20/5/4 45% from the field, 36% from 3. Eric Gordon didn't put those numbers up last year so stop using him. Even then, he's an outlier as he's played 31/33 MPG the last year and a half. Adding on to that, Gordon is an atrocious defender at this stage in his career. He's also a combo guard as he's undersized to play the 2.
Tim Hardaway is a legit 6'6 and strong as an ox. He isn't the liability that Gordon is on the defensive end, thus he doesn't have to be a 2nd unit guy. Lastly, THJ bails the team out when the offense gets stagnant and mundane.
If you count Middleton as a 2 guard, you can put him over THJ, but he still is right around 10 in terms of top SG's. He isn't a bad enough defender or small enough that he has to play the 2nd unit. Dakomish you're wrong and you've been ethered once again.