PG: Knicks|Nets- Mecca, Greenie, Melo sit yo ass down Edition.

[GEOLINK]

How many lottery draft picks do the damn Kings need? They should have a solid core by now with all the tanking years they’ve had.

they continue to dig a hole, and digging deeper by tanking year after year.


tanking at the beginning of the year is a **** decision, and i don't get why people here wanted that.


what kind of free agents want to go to that kind of team/environment? none of the good ones. the ones that do? the guys who are trying to get a better contract, so they don't play as a team, they play for themselves, thus creating more losses.

create a winning/positive environment, and the better players will show up. purposefully losing? no one will want to join that ****.


**** everyone's tank. anyone take notes?

76'er's did ok with this strategy

Yeah, they drafted a dude 1st pick that can't shoot anymore.

[IllmaticHandler]

Key to the game was no KP high post ISOs. Most of his shots came off of screens and pin downs. Very efficient. KP isn't an ISO player.

Yup, just watch how he gets his points.

Watch on YouTube

How is the coaching staff and video techs not noticing this and addressing it?

Its not all they fault. People keep putting blame on the staff, but KP wants to be an ISO player, he goes ISO on plays that are not called for ISO. Honestly, he said that he was changing his game for the BK game and it showed...so some of that was him and not the staff changing anything.

[King of Canada]

Key to the game was no KP high post ISOs. Most of his shots came off of screens and pin downs. Very efficient. KP isn't an ISO player.

Yup, just watch how he gets his points.

Watch on YouTube

How is the coaching staff and video techs not noticing this and addressing it?

Its not all they fault. People keep putting blame on the staff, but KP wants to be an ISO player, he goes ISO on plays that are not called for ISO. Honestly, he said that he was changing his game for the BK game...so some of that was him and not the staff.

Last night was team Latvia KP.

[N Y K]

Key to the game was no KP high post ISOs. Most of his shots came off of screens and pin downs. Very efficient. KP isn't an ISO player.

I'd also say a key was playing Brooklyn...

[mpharris36]

Read on Twitter

This is what we should be doing especially after tonight where the young guys defend a bring energy

How many lottery draft picks do the damn Kings need? They should have a solid core by now with all the tanking years they’ve had.

they continue to dig a hole, and digging deeper by tanking year after year.


tanking at the beginning of the year is a **** decision, and i don't get why people here wanted that.


what kind of free agents want to go to that kind of team/environment? none of the good ones. the ones that do? the guys who are trying to get a better contract, so they don't play as a team, they play for themselves, thus creating more losses.

create a winning/positive environment, and the better players will show up. purposefully losing? no one will want to join that ****.


**** everyone's tank. anyone take notes?

if you see what I wrote above I never suggested tanking...because I know players don't tank. But the organization should be playing the young players...its that simple regardless of the results. We need to see what we have in terms of rotational players alongside KP and Frank (who finally got legit minutes last night). We should be seeing more Frank, Burke, Dotson, WHG and even Baker. Less Jack and Lance Thomas. And trade Lee and KOQ for whatever value you can get. Hell even trade Kanter if you find the right deal.

[GONYK]

Key to the game was no KP high post ISOs. Most of his shots came off of screens and pin downs. Very efficient. KP isn't an ISO player.

Yup, just watch how he gets his points.

Watch on YouTube

How is the coaching staff and video techs not noticing this and addressing it?

Its not all they fault. People keep putting blame on the staff, but KP wants to be an ISO player, he goes ISO on plays that are not called for ISO. Honestly, he said that he was changing his game for the BK game and it showed...so some of that was him and not the staff changing anything.

I'd say most of it was changing his mindset.

I guarantee you that the Knicks don't practice KP holding the ball from 20 ft away, then throwing up a crowded jumper and then complaining for a call.

Players break plays and freelance all the time. KP is almost always a mismatch in the post, in terms of size, so I get why he tries. The skill level and strength just isn't there to the point where that should be how he uses most of his possessions. The dude was having trouble scoring on Barea a week ago.

Getting his offense in the flow, and punishing the defense attention with quick decision making makes him way more dangerous.

[GONYK]

How many lottery draft picks do the damn Kings need? They should have a solid core by now with all the tanking years they’ve had.

they continue to dig a hole, and digging deeper by tanking year after year.


tanking at the beginning of the year is a **** decision, and i don't get why people here wanted that.


what kind of free agents want to go to that kind of team/environment? none of the good ones. the ones that do? the guys who are trying to get a better contract, so they don't play as a team, they play for themselves, thus creating more losses.

create a winning/positive environment, and the better players will show up. purposefully losing? no one will want to join that ****.


**** everyone's tank. anyone take notes?

if you see what I wrote above I never suggested tanking...because I know players don't tank. But the organization should be playing the young players...its that simple regardless of the results. We need to see what we have in terms of rotational players alongside KP and Frank (who finally got legit minutes last night). We should be seeing more Frank, Burke, Dotson, WHG and even Baker. Less Jack and Lance Thomas. And trade Lee and KOQ for whatever value you can get. Hell even trade Kanter if you find the right deal.

The Kings didn't make the decision to "go young" until they were 17 games under .500 though.

Why is the perception here that doing that is such an obvious decision? Especially when the coaches and FO guys who see these guys day in and day out have a pretty good idea of what the outcome would be?

Once a season goes tits up like the Kings have, or like ours might after this road trip, then sure. You live with the results of the young guys because the season is already done in terms of competitiveness.

[thebuzzardman]

they continue to dig a hole, and digging deeper by tanking year after year.


tanking at the beginning of the year is a **** decision, and i don't get why people here wanted that.


what kind of free agents want to go to that kind of team/environment? none of the good ones. the ones that do? the guys who are trying to get a better contract, so they don't play as a team, they play for themselves, thus creating more losses.

create a winning/positive environment, and the better players will show up. purposefully losing? no one will want to join that ****.


**** everyone's tank. anyone take notes?

76'er's did ok with this strategy

Yeah, they drafted a dude 1st pick that can't shoot anymore.

They hit on Embiid and Simmons, missed on Noel and maybe Fultz, though jury is out on that.

Point is, even with that - not batting 100% with picks, eventually it was a good enough location, (helps they had the $) for JJ Reddick to sign there. He even took a 1 year deal, whereas the Knicks probably would have to sign him for like 4 years.

The Kings can be screwing up their rebuild or not, but it's still a little early to tell, other than they've been doing it a while, but it seems like it has to be judged the last 2 years moving forward - sort of judging them Divacs forward, like we are kind of saying Mills\Perry need a few more years, though the rebuild started with KP, basically

[mpharris36]

they continue to dig a hole, and digging deeper by tanking year after year.


tanking at the beginning of the year is a **** decision, and i don't get why people here wanted that.


what kind of free agents want to go to that kind of team/environment? none of the good ones. the ones that do? the guys who are trying to get a better contract, so they don't play as a team, they play for themselves, thus creating more losses.

create a winning/positive environment, and the better players will show up. purposefully losing? no one will want to join that ****.


**** everyone's tank. anyone take notes?

if you see what I wrote above I never suggested tanking...because I know players don't tank. But the organization should be playing the young players...its that simple regardless of the results. We need to see what we have in terms of rotational players alongside KP and Frank (who finally got legit minutes last night). We should be seeing more Frank, Burke, Dotson, WHG and even Baker. Less Jack and Lance Thomas. And trade Lee and KOQ for whatever value you can get. Hell even trade Kanter if you find the right deal.

The Kings didn't make the decision to "go young" until they were 17 games under .500 though.

Why is the perception here that doing that is such an obvious decision? Especially when the coaches and FO guys who see these guys day in and day out have a pretty good idea of what the outcome would be?

Once a season goes tits up like the Kings have, or like ours might after this road trip, then sure. You live with the results of the young guys because the season is already done in terms of competitiveness.

The young guys if our coach just trusted them give us the best chance too win because most of them give energy and defend. So its not just development we play our best with them.

I think the young players would actually give us an identity about the way we want to play. The vets are playing for themselves to me, there is no cohesion. It shows when guys like Frank and Baker get to close out games. They play with a different passion. Who cares if they make mistakes at least they are playing the right way. You live with the results.

If they were significantly worse I would understand your point of just waiting till things play out. But you can't make the argument that our vets are better then our young players. I can make the argument that we seem to play our best when they are out there getting legit run.

[DOT]

76'er's did ok with this strategy

Yeah, they drafted a dude 1st pick that can't shoot anymore.

They hit on Embiid and Simmons, missed on Noel and maybe Fultz, though jury is out on that.

Point is, even with that - not batting 100% with picks, eventually it was a good enough location, (helps they had the $) for JJ Reddick to sign there. He even took a 1 year deal, whereas the Knicks probably would have to sign him for like 4 years.

The Kings can be screwing up their rebuild or not, but it's still a little early to tell, other than they've been doing it a while, but it seems like it has to be judged the last 2 years moving forward - sort of judging them Divacs forward, like we are kind of saying Mills\Perry need a few more years, though the rebuild started with KP, basically

Thing about the 6ers is that they were only able to get so many high picks cause their players kept getting injured

I don't think they pick 3rd if Embiid is healthy, certainly not 1st the next year, and a full year of Embiid and rookie Simmons would not have gotten them the 3rd pick this year

Basically, they had a sh*tload of luck, getting that many high picks without most being busts just isn't normal

[IllmaticHandler]

Yup, just watch how he gets his points.

Watch on YouTube

How is the coaching staff and video techs not noticing this and addressing it?

Its not all they fault. People keep putting blame on the staff, but KP wants to be an ISO player, he goes ISO on plays that are not called for ISO. Honestly, he said that he was changing his game for the BK game and it showed...so some of that was him and not the staff changing anything.

I'd say most of it was changing his mindset.

I guarantee you that the Knicks don't practice KP holding the ball from 20 ft away, then throwing up a crowded jumper and then complaining for a call.

Players break plays and freelance all the time. KP is almost always a mismatch in the post, in terms of size, so I get why he tries. The skill level and strength just isn't there to the point where that should be how he uses most of his possessions. The dude was having trouble scoring on Barea a week ago.

Getting his offense in the flow, and punishing the defense attention with quick decision making makes him way more dangerous.

Basically. He himself has to recognize his strengths and weaknesses. That's what made Dirk great was that he did not try to be something he was not. KP wants to be a guard, but he has to understand that he is not, and play to his strengths, not his weaknesses. Maybe 3 years from now he can play more like he wants to play but he is not there yet... KP has the mind frame of putting the cart before the horse. He is like the Anti Frank. Frank Kinda stays in his lane. I have yet to see him try to act like he is Kyrie Irving.

[GONYK]

if you see what I wrote above I never suggested tanking...because I know players don't tank. But the organization should be playing the young players...its that simple regardless of the results. We need to see what we have in terms of rotational players alongside KP and Frank (who finally got legit minutes last night). We should be seeing more Frank, Burke, Dotson, WHG and even Baker. Less Jack and Lance Thomas. And trade Lee and KOQ for whatever value you can get. Hell even trade Kanter if you find the right deal.

The Kings didn't make the decision to "go young" until they were 17 games under .500 though.

Why is the perception here that doing that is such an obvious decision? Especially when the coaches and FO guys who see these guys day in and day out have a pretty good idea of what the outcome would be?

Once a season goes tits up like the Kings have, or like ours might after this road trip, then sure. You live with the results of the young guys because the season is already done in terms of competitiveness.

The young guys if our coach just trusted them give us the best chance too win because most of them give energy and defend. So its not just development we play our best with them.

I think the young players would actually give us an identity about the way we want to play. The vets are playing for themselves to me, there is no cohesion. It shows when guys like Frank and Baker get to close out games. They play with a different passion. Who cares if they make mistakes at least they are playing the right way. You live with the results.

If they were significantly worse I would understand your point of just waiting till things play out. But you can't make the argument that our vets are better then our young players. I can make the argument that we seem to play our best when they are out there getting legit run.

Frank, when he plays well, plays better than Jack. Jack consistently plays better than Frank.

When you're playing to win, consistency carries more weight.

Which other kids/vets matchup are you talking about?

[IllmaticHandler]

Whatever happened to SMAC-K?

are you seriously telling me this whole time you did not know SMAC-K was HEZI?

I didn't know that. Where's Kane?

He popped in the Hip Hop thread like two weeks ago for a hot second.

[Jeff Van Gully]

76'er's did ok with this strategy

Yeah, they drafted a dude 1st pick that can't shoot anymore.

They hit on Embiid and Simmons, missed on Noel and maybe Fultz, though jury is out on that.

Point is, even with that - not batting 100% with picks, eventually it was a good enough location, (helps they had the $) for JJ Reddick to sign there. He even took a 1 year deal, whereas the Knicks probably would have to sign him for like 4 years.

The Kings can be screwing up their rebuild or not, but it's still a little early to tell, other than they've been doing it a while, but it seems like it has to be judged the last 2 years moving forward - sort of judging them Divacs forward, like we are kind of saying Mills\Perry need a few more years, though the rebuild started with KP, basically

you can't plan embiid being hurt for years. because if he was playing, they probably would have won more.

[dakomish23]

Read on Twitter

This is what we should be doing especially after tonight where the young guys defend a bring energy

How many lottery draft picks do the damn Kings need? They should have a solid core by now with all the tanking years they’ve had.

they continue to dig a hole, and digging deeper by tanking year after year.


tanking at the beginning of the year is a **** decision, and i don't get why people here wanted that.


what kind of free agents want to go to that kind of team/environment? none of the good ones. the ones that do? the guys who are trying to get a better contract, so they don't play as a team, they play for themselves, thus creating more losses.

create a winning/positive environment, and the better players will show up. purposefully losing? no one will want to join that ****.


**** everyone's tank. anyone take notes?

They weren’t trying to tank to start the season. That’s their problem.

That’s what makes a team do a disastrous deal like they did with PHI. That’s what has you stuck in the middle lottery instead of at the top.

Teams trying not to tank when they’re not ready to win has paid off very rarely in the NBA

[Deeeez Knicks]

Key to the game was no KP high post ISOs. Most of his shots came off of screens and pin downs. Very efficient. KP isn't an ISO player.

Yup, just watch how he gets his points.

Watch on YouTube

How is the coaching staff and video techs not noticing this and addressing it?

Exactly. It makes things so much easier for KP.

[Knicksfan1992]

76'er's did ok with this strategy

Yeah, they drafted a dude 1st pick that can't shoot anymore.

They hit on Embiid and Simmons, missed on Noel and maybe Fultz, though jury is out on that.

Point is, even with that - not batting 100% with picks, eventually it was a good enough location, (helps they had the $) for JJ Reddick to sign there. He even took a 1 year deal, whereas the Knicks probably would have to sign him for like 4 years.

The Kings can be screwing up their rebuild or not, but it's still a little early to tell, other than they've been doing it a while, but it seems like it has to be judged the last 2 years moving forward - sort of judging them Divacs forward, like we are kind of saying Mills\Perry need a few more years, though the rebuild started with KP, basically

Sixers tanked themselves right on the treadmill. They're still a couple pieces away and aren't bad enough to tank anymore. Fultz looks like the worst case scenario has occurred and their only saving grace is the Kings and Lakers picks, one of which has a decent shot to not go to them... Hinkie's severely overrated on message boards and twitter. He acquired good assets and had good ideas but had no end vision. Sixers are a mis-mosh of some elite (albeit not fitting well talent) and high energy scrap-heap guys. They're missing key pieces.

[mpharris36]

The Kings didn't make the decision to "go young" until they were 17 games under .500 though.

Why is the perception here that doing that is such an obvious decision? Especially when the coaches and FO guys who see these guys day in and day out have a pretty good idea of what the outcome would be?

Once a season goes tits up like the Kings have, or like ours might after this road trip, then sure. You live with the results of the young guys because the season is already done in terms of competitiveness.

The young guys if our coach just trusted them give us the best chance too win because most of them give energy and defend. So its not just development we play our best with them.

I think the young players would actually give us an identity about the way we want to play. The vets are playing for themselves to me, there is no cohesion. It shows when guys like Frank and Baker get to close out games. They play with a different passion. Who cares if they make mistakes at least they are playing the right way. You live with the results.

If they were significantly worse I would understand your point of just waiting till things play out. But you can't make the argument that our vets are better then our young players. I can make the argument that we seem to play our best when they are out there getting legit run.

Frank, when he plays well, plays better than Jack. Jack consistently plays better than Frank.

When you're playing to win, consistency carries more weight.

Which other kids/vets matchup are you talking about?

Jack and Franks net rating and +/- would actually disagree that jack consistently plays better than frank.

Yes I will agree that Jack is more consistent on the offensive end. 100% no issues with that claim. But even when frank struggles on offense his defense outplays jack even more than jacks offense outproduces frank (on his bad days).

My point is jacks consistency on the offensive end doesn't override his atrocious defense play. His still a net negative on the floor. This should also hold more weight since the front office and the coach said that the #1 priority more than results was setting a defensive identity...which obviously was full of crap...

And you have to take into account that Jack plays with our best offensive player a majority of the time in KP when Frank is out there with a lot of garbage offensive players which will negatively effect his offensive net rating.

[GONYK]

The young guys if our coach just trusted them give us the best chance too win because most of them give energy and defend. So its not just development we play our best with them.

I think the young players would actually give us an identity about the way we want to play. The vets are playing for themselves to me, there is no cohesion. It shows when guys like Frank and Baker get to close out games. They play with a different passion. Who cares if they make mistakes at least they are playing the right way. You live with the results.

If they were significantly worse I would understand your point of just waiting till things play out. But you can't make the argument that our vets are better then our young players. I can make the argument that we seem to play our best when they are out there getting legit run.

Frank, when he plays well, plays better than Jack. Jack consistently plays better than Frank.

When you're playing to win, consistency carries more weight.

Which other kids/vets matchup are you talking about?

Jack and Franks net rating and +/- would actually disagree that jack consistently plays better than frank.

Yes I will agree that Jack is more consistent on the offensive end. 100% no issues with that claim. But even when frank struggles on offense his defense outplays jack even more than jacks offense outproduces frank (on his bad days).

My point is jacks consistency on the offensive end doesn't override his atrocious defense play. His still a net negative on the floor.

With Jack, you know what you are getting, and can gameplan around that night in and night out. You can't do that with Frank at this point, which is why Jeff feels it out with Frank each night.

When Frank plays well, he plays about the same mins as Jack or slightly more, and even finishes games on occasion.

When Frank doesn't play well or gets in foul trouble quickly, Jack obviously plays more.

Which other kid outplays the vet in front of them consistently?

[mpharris36]

With Jack, you know what you are getting, and can gameplan around that night in and night out. You can't do that with Frank at this point, which is why Jeff feels it out with Frank each night.

When Frank plays well, he plays about the same mins as Jack or slightly more, and even finishes games on occasion.

When Frank doesn't play well or gets in foul trouble quickly, Jack obviously plays more.

Which other kid outplays the vet in front of them consistently?

we obviously have a different mindset in terms of developing young players. It shouldn't be if frank plays well he stays in. Because it has a negative effect that if he makes mistakes he gets taken out. Which in turn makes the kid play tight. Instead of letting the kid just go out there and deal with his mistakes and play through a bad turnover...what does yanking him out do? Make him more worried about turning it over.

Turnovers and missed shots are part of the game. As long as he is giving effort, competing, and developing that should be the most important part. I have seen Frank look over to the bench when he makes mistakes thinking he will be taken out. That is a horrible way to coach.

Jack gets to play through horrible defense? But Frank can't turn the ball over? They both negatively effect the team but defense was suppose to be the #1 point of emphasis this year...

Also in terms of the the other kids. I think Baker/Dotson should def start eating in Lee's minutes. Lee should not be logging 33-35 minuts a night. You can see how it negatively effects him. Late in games he does not bring the same defensive intensity he should. At this point lee is just a average defender because they are requiring him to do more on offense which I don't like. Trim Lee's minutes down that will make him more effective on that end.

Kanter, play especially on defense is dipping. Whether its nagging injuries or whatever, I think WHG should def start eating into some of Kanter's minutes.

Lance Thomas should almost never play...he's horrible. In the most dire situations when you need him on LeBron or Giannis or one of the bigger wings that play on the perimeter I can see it...but when its a matchup vs the nets who don't have a dynamic wing...he shouldn't get of the bench. Dotson could easily eat into small ball 3 minutes here.

Beasley (i suppose we need his offense spark off the bench)...and when he's scoring I can live with his atrocious defense...but watching him try to cover lauri markkanen the other night shows you why he is difficult to play. He turns the ball over a ton, that leads to easy fast break opportunities, never runs back on defense, and finding his man and leaving open shooters is his specialty. I guess when he's scoring at will he becomes somewhat palatable.