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Giants expected to hire Pat Shurmur as new coach

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Re: Giants expected to hire Pat Shurmur as new coach 

Post#141 » by Knickstape1214 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:36 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
Knickstape1214 wrote:Give me Rosen over Darnold every day of the week. TBH, I'd take Mayfield over Darnold as well (not at #2 obviously because we could trade down, get extra picks, and get Mayfield in the mid teens at the earliest and late first at the latest maybe).


I don't disagree with QB skills at the moment but Darnold is the cleaner and more durable prospect. It also sounds like Eli is at least staying a year...so to me it would be easier to sit Darnold for a year because I think he needs more development but he very well could be the better QB than Rosen overtime.

Rosen is pretty ready in terms of starting day 1...he can make all the throws and can read progressions. The issue obviously with him is his durability he always is missing time. And someone already with serious concussion issues can't be overlooked even if you think he could be the better QB.


As far as I know, the only thing that makes Rosen an issue off the field is he's outspoken. That's literally it. Him having a hot tub in college means nothing and him being from a family that's well off means nothing. I get Darnold being more durable, but I'm still not picking him over Rosen. Absolutely not. Rosen is way more talented and has actually proven his talent, unlike Darnold. Rosen being ready to start day 1 is a good thing, not a bad thing. Nobody knows how Darnold will develop in the NFL, so why take the risk and say "oh, we'll just sit him for a year?" I'm not cool with that.
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Re: Giants expected to hire Pat Shurmur as new coach 

Post#142 » by Knickstape1214 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:39 pm

IllmaticHandler wrote:
Knickstape1214 wrote:Give me Rosen over Darnold every day of the week. TBH, I'd take Mayfield over Darnold as well (not at #2 obviously because we could trade down, get extra picks, and get Mayfield in the mid teens at the earliest and late first at the latest maybe).



This draft is ripe for teh trade down and still get a decent QB prospect.


Honestly, even Lamar Jackson I'd be cool with (again, not at #2). He needs work with his passing still, but he's got a cannon for an arm and can make plays with his feet. Good luck to defenses trying to stop him with a spy while keeping enough coverage over the middle for Shep / Engram AND OBJ on the outside.

Don't like the Wyoming guy, either.
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Re: Giants expected to hire Pat Shurmur as new coach 

Post#143 » by IllmaticHandler » Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:41 pm

Knickstape1214 wrote:
IllmaticHandler wrote:
Knickstape1214 wrote:Give me Rosen over Darnold every day of the week. TBH, I'd take Mayfield over Darnold as well (not at #2 obviously because we could trade down, get extra picks, and get Mayfield in the mid teens at the earliest and late first at the latest maybe).



This draft is ripe for teh trade down and still get a decent QB prospect.


Honestly, even Lamar Jackson I'd be cool with (again, not at #2). He needs work with his passing still, but he's got a cannon for an arm and can make plays with his feet. Good luck to defenses trying to stop him with a spy while keeping enough coverage over the middle for Shep / Engram AND OBJ on the outside.

Don't like the Wyoming guy, either.


Yeah. That would be a NASTY offense. I personally think Trade down is the best scenario. We need to stockpile with a new regime. The trade down that the Browns did last year paid the hell off.
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Re: Giants expected to hire Pat Shurmur as new coach 

Post#144 » by Knicksfan1992 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:42 pm

Knickstape1214 wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
Knickstape1214 wrote:Give me Rosen over Darnold every day of the week. TBH, I'd take Mayfield over Darnold as well (not at #2 obviously because we could trade down, get extra picks, and get Mayfield in the mid teens at the earliest and late first at the latest maybe).


I don't disagree with QB skills at the moment but Darnold is the cleaner and more durable prospect. It also sounds like Eli is at least staying a year...so to me it would be easier to sit Darnold for a year because I think he needs more development but he very well could be the better QB than Rosen overtime.

Rosen is pretty ready in terms of starting day 1...he can make all the throws and can read progressions. The issue obviously with him is his durability he always is missing time. And someone already with serious concussion issues can't be overlooked even if you think he could be the better QB.


As far as I know, the only thing that makes Rosen an issue off the field is he's outspoken. That's literally it. Him having a hot tub in college means nothing and him being from a family that's well off means nothing. I get Darnold being more durable, but I'm still not picking him over Rosen. Absolutely not. Rosen is way more talented and has actually proven his talent, unlike Darnold. Rosen being ready to start day 1 is a good thing, not a bad thing. Nobody knows how Darnold will develop in the NFL, so why take the risk and say "oh, we'll just sit him for a year?" I'm not cool with that.


I'm dying for the Jets to get Rosen. I'm also all in on them taking Mayfield or trading down and taking Lamar. I think all those guys can be studs.
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Re: Giants expected to hire Pat Shurmur as new coach 

Post#145 » by Knickstape1214 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:45 pm

IllmaticHandler wrote:
Knickstape1214 wrote:
IllmaticHandler wrote:

This draft is ripe for teh trade down and still get a decent QB prospect.


Honestly, even Lamar Jackson I'd be cool with (again, not at #2). He needs work with his passing still, but he's got a cannon for an arm and can make plays with his feet. Good luck to defenses trying to stop him with a spy while keeping enough coverage over the middle for Shep / Engram AND OBJ on the outside.

Don't like the Wyoming guy, either.


Yeah. That would be a NASTY offense. I personally think Trade down is the best scenario. We need to stockpile with a new regime. The trade down that the Browns did last year paid the hell off.


Browns are going to select 2 QBs in the first round just to add to the list. :lol: :lol:

Knicksfan1992 wrote:
Knickstape1214 wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
I don't disagree with QB skills at the moment but Darnold is the cleaner and more durable prospect. It also sounds like Eli is at least staying a year...so to me it would be easier to sit Darnold for a year because I think he needs more development but he very well could be the better QB than Rosen overtime.

Rosen is pretty ready in terms of starting day 1...he can make all the throws and can read progressions. The issue obviously with him is his durability he always is missing time. And someone already with serious concussion issues can't be overlooked even if you think he could be the better QB.


As far as I know, the only thing that makes Rosen an issue off the field is he's outspoken. That's literally it. Him having a hot tub in college means nothing and him being from a family that's well off means nothing. I get Darnold being more durable, but I'm still not picking him over Rosen. Absolutely not. Rosen is way more talented and has actually proven his talent, unlike Darnold. Rosen being ready to start day 1 is a good thing, not a bad thing. Nobody knows how Darnold will develop in the NFL, so why take the risk and say "oh, we'll just sit him for a year?" I'm not cool with that.


I'm dying for the Jets to get Rosen. I'm also all in on them taking Mayfield or trading down and taking Lamar. I think all those guys can be studs.


Completely agree. Something about Darnold just throws me off the train. Aside from no surefire skill, he doesn't have a great arm, not very mobile, and he's inconsistent. Just naming one for each of the following, but Rosen has the ability to make any throw, Lamar is versatile as hell, and Mayfield can also make the throws you need and he has the killer attitude. I have those three above Darnold. I've got no ill-will towards the Jets, so I hope whoever they get does well also...which is why I hope it's not Darnold. :lol:
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Re: Giants expected to hire Pat Shurmur as new coach 

Post#146 » by Mecca » Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:48 pm

Knickstape1214 wrote:
IllmaticHandler wrote:
Knickstape1214 wrote:
Honestly, even Lamar Jackson I'd be cool with (again, not at #2). He needs work with his passing still, but he's got a cannon for an arm and can make plays with his feet. Good luck to defenses trying to stop him with a spy while keeping enough coverage over the middle for Shep / Engram AND OBJ on the outside.

Don't like the Wyoming guy, either.


Yeah. That would be a NASTY offense. I personally think Trade down is the best scenario. We need to stockpile with a new regime. The trade down that the Browns did last year paid the hell off.


Browns are going to select 2 QBs in the first round just to add to the list. :lol: :lol:

Knicksfan1992 wrote:
Knickstape1214 wrote:
As far as I know, the only thing that makes Rosen an issue off the field is he's outspoken. That's literally it. Him having a hot tub in college means nothing and him being from a family that's well off means nothing. I get Darnold being more durable, but I'm still not picking him over Rosen. Absolutely not. Rosen is way more talented and has actually proven his talent, unlike Darnold. Rosen being ready to start day 1 is a good thing, not a bad thing. Nobody knows how Darnold will develop in the NFL, so why take the risk and say "oh, we'll just sit him for a year?" I'm not cool with that.


I'm dying for the Jets to get Rosen. I'm also all in on them taking Mayfield or trading down and taking Lamar. I think all those guys can be studs.


Completely agree. Something about Darnold just throws me off the train. Aside from no surefire skill, he doesn't have a great arm, not very mobile, and he's inconsistent. Just naming one for each of the following, but Rosen has the ability to make any throw, Lamar is versatile as hell, and Mayfield can also make the throws you need and he has the killer attitude. I have those three above Darnold. I've got no ill-will towards the Jets, so I hope whoever they get does well also...which is why I hope it's not Darnold. :lol:


Agreed. Darnold has an ugly delivery, overrated arm, and struggles w deep ball accuracy. I seriously don't understand the hype. I have Rosen, Mayfield, Lamar all over Darnold.
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Re: Giants expected to hire Pat Shurmur as new coach 

Post#147 » by mpharris36 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:50 pm

Knickstape1214 wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
Knickstape1214 wrote:Give me Rosen over Darnold every day of the week. TBH, I'd take Mayfield over Darnold as well (not at #2 obviously because we could trade down, get extra picks, and get Mayfield in the mid teens at the earliest and late first at the latest maybe).


I don't disagree with QB skills at the moment but Darnold is the cleaner and more durable prospect. It also sounds like Eli is at least staying a year...so to me it would be easier to sit Darnold for a year because I think he needs more development but he very well could be the better QB than Rosen overtime.

Rosen is pretty ready in terms of starting day 1...he can make all the throws and can read progressions. The issue obviously with him is his durability he always is missing time. And someone already with serious concussion issues can't be overlooked even if you think he could be the better QB.


As far as I know, the only thing that makes Rosen an issue off the field is he's outspoken. That's literally it. Him having a hot tub in college means nothing and him being from a family that's well off means nothing. I get Darnold being more durable, but I'm still not picking him over Rosen. Absolutely not. Rosen is way more talented and has actually proven his talent, unlike Darnold. Rosen being ready to start day 1 is a good thing, not a bad thing. Nobody knows how Darnold will develop in the NFL, so why take the risk and say "oh, we'll just sit him for a year?" I'm not cool with that.


I think its not a consensus as you make it out to be. I go back and forth all the time because I see the pros and cons.

Overlooking the durability and "love" of the game factor could backfire. Also we are drafting who will be the best QB over the length of there careers in NY. And the only reason I said we can sit Darnold a year. Is that we do have Eli and we can be patient and develop Darnold if we see him having the highest upside because of his arm strength, being able to read a defense, and ability make play with his leg.

I think we can all agree Darnold offensive line at USC this year was a sh*t show...and as giants fans we know how that f*cks up everything.

Honestly there pretty close in my eyes. The clear top 2...there is obviously more time to evaluate.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000909727/article/daniel-jeremiahs-top-50-prospects-for-2018-nfl-draft

I respect Jeremiah's breakdwon..he has both Darnold and Rosen pretty high one after the other...this is obviously not accounting for the QB bump guys get at the draft because of the importance of the position.
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Re: Giants expected to hire Pat Shurmur as new coach 

Post#148 » by mpharris36 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:53 pm

IllmaticHandler wrote:
Knickstape1214 wrote:
IllmaticHandler wrote:

This draft is ripe for teh trade down and still get a decent QB prospect.


Honestly, even Lamar Jackson I'd be cool with (again, not at #2). He needs work with his passing still, but he's got a cannon for an arm and can make plays with his feet. Good luck to defenses trying to stop him with a spy while keeping enough coverage over the middle for Shep / Engram AND OBJ on the outside.

Don't like the Wyoming guy, either.


Yeah. That would be a NASTY offense. I personally think Trade down is the best scenario. We need to stockpile with a new regime. The trade down that the Browns did last year paid the hell off.


just playing devils advocate the trade down 2 years ago was a killer. You pass on a Wentz you move your franchise back multiple years...tough to recover.

Whichever way you look at it...its a HUGE decision.
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Re: Giants expected to hire Pat Shurmur as new coach 

Post#149 » by IllmaticHandler » Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:53 pm

a round up of mocks for the Gmen. Rosen is blowing away Darnold.


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Re: Giants expected to hire Pat Shurmur as new coach 

Post#150 » by mpharris36 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:55 pm

IllmaticHandler wrote:a round up of mocks for the Gmen. Rosen is blowing away Darnold.


Image


just curious how many of the drafts have Darnold going #1 to the browns?
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Re: Giants expected to hire Pat Shurmur as new coach 

Post#151 » by IllmaticHandler » Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:57 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
IllmaticHandler wrote:
Knickstape1214 wrote:
Honestly, even Lamar Jackson I'd be cool with (again, not at #2). He needs work with his passing still, but he's got a cannon for an arm and can make plays with his feet. Good luck to defenses trying to stop him with a spy while keeping enough coverage over the middle for Shep / Engram AND OBJ on the outside.

Don't like the Wyoming guy, either.


Yeah. That would be a NASTY offense. I personally think Trade down is the best scenario. We need to stockpile with a new regime. The trade down that the Browns did last year paid the hell off.


just playing devils advocate the trade down 2 years ago was a killer. You pass on a Wentz you move your franchise back multiple years...tough to recover.

Whichever way you look at it...its a HUGE decision.



There were not good QBs later on thoe. So its MUCH different this time around.
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Re: Giants expected to hire Pat Shurmur as new coach 

Post#152 » by IllmaticHandler » Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:59 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
IllmaticHandler wrote:a round up of mocks for the Gmen. Rosen is blowing away Darnold.


Image


just curious how many of the drafts have Darnold going #1 to the browns?



I would not know, but most of those Mocks are the big ones so....
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Re: Giants expected to hire Pat Shurmur as new coach 

Post#153 » by Knickstape1214 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:59 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
Knickstape1214 wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
I don't disagree with QB skills at the moment but Darnold is the cleaner and more durable prospect. It also sounds like Eli is at least staying a year...so to me it would be easier to sit Darnold for a year because I think he needs more development but he very well could be the better QB than Rosen overtime.

Rosen is pretty ready in terms of starting day 1...he can make all the throws and can read progressions. The issue obviously with him is his durability he always is missing time. And someone already with serious concussion issues can't be overlooked even if you think he could be the better QB.


As far as I know, the only thing that makes Rosen an issue off the field is he's outspoken. That's literally it. Him having a hot tub in college means nothing and him being from a family that's well off means nothing. I get Darnold being more durable, but I'm still not picking him over Rosen. Absolutely not. Rosen is way more talented and has actually proven his talent, unlike Darnold. Rosen being ready to start day 1 is a good thing, not a bad thing. Nobody knows how Darnold will develop in the NFL, so why take the risk and say "oh, we'll just sit him for a year?" I'm not cool with that.


I think its not a consensus as you make it out to be. I go back and forth all the time because I see the pros and cons.

Overlooking the durability and "love" of the game factor could backfire. Also we are drafting who will be the best QB over the length of there careers in NY. And the only reason I said we can sit Darnold a year. Is that we do have Eli and we can be patient and develop Darnold if we see him having the highest upside because of his arm strength, being able to read a defense, and ability make play with his leg.

I think we can all agree Darnold offensive line at USC this year was a sh*t show...and as giants fans we know how that f*cks up everything.

Honestly there pretty close in my eyes. The clear top 2...there is obviously more time to evaluate.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000909727/article/daniel-jeremiahs-top-50-prospects-for-2018-nfl-draft

I respect Jeremiah's breakdwon..he has both Darnold and Rosen pretty high one after the other...this is obviously not accounting for the QB bump guys get at the draft because of the importance of the position.


Meh, to me it is pretty black and white. I think Rosen has the best career simply because I don't buy the Darnold hype. On top of that, USC QBs not turning out well in the pros isn't really helping his cause. We can sit Rosen if we'd like also, so the sitting thing really doesn't mean anything.



I respect Mayock the most out of any draft guy - "Rosen from a pure thrower perspective is as gifted as any I've seen in many years...no doubt about that..."

Going to be interesting to see how this plays out, but I have Rosen, Lamar, and Mayfield above Darnold in terms of who I'd want.
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Re: Giants expected to hire Pat Shurmur as new coach 

Post#154 » by mpharris36 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:00 pm

IllmaticHandler wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
IllmaticHandler wrote:
Yeah. That would be a NASTY offense. I personally think Trade down is the best scenario. We need to stockpile with a new regime. The trade down that the Browns did last year paid the hell off.


just playing devils advocate the trade down 2 years ago was a killer. You pass on a Wentz you move your franchise back multiple years...tough to recover.

Whichever way you look at it...its a HUGE decision.



There were not good QBs later on thoe. So its MUCH different this time around.


thats fare. There are people a lot higher on Mayfield/Jackson then some though. If you are one...which it seems you are it would be a lot easier to trade down. If you are not as high, it would be a lot more difficult to trade down.

I see no way the Mara's are picking Mayfield...I just don't see it. I guess I could be wrong...
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Re: Giants expected to hire Pat Shurmur as new coach 

Post#155 » by IllmaticHandler » Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:02 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
IllmaticHandler wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
just playing devils advocate the trade down 2 years ago was a killer. You pass on a Wentz you move your franchise back multiple years...tough to recover.

Whichever way you look at it...its a HUGE decision.



There were not good QBs later on thoe. So its MUCH different this time around.


thats fare. There are people a lot higher on Mayfield/Jackson then some though. If you are one...which it seems you are it would be a lot easier to trade down. If you are not as high, it would be a lot more difficult to trade down.

I see no way the Mara's are picking Mayfield...I just don't see it. I guess I could be wrong...


well you know I am Jackson fan...so he would be my choice. :lol:
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Re: Giants expected to hire Pat Shurmur as new coach 

Post#156 » by IllmaticHandler » Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:04 pm

Im really liking this AZ dude over Del Rio thoe. He is my choice.
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Re: Giants expected to hire Pat Shurmur as new coach 

Post#157 » by mpharris36 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:07 pm

Knickstape1214 wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
Knickstape1214 wrote:
As far as I know, the only thing that makes Rosen an issue off the field is he's outspoken. That's literally it. Him having a hot tub in college means nothing and him being from a family that's well off means nothing. I get Darnold being more durable, but I'm still not picking him over Rosen. Absolutely not. Rosen is way more talented and has actually proven his talent, unlike Darnold. Rosen being ready to start day 1 is a good thing, not a bad thing. Nobody knows how Darnold will develop in the NFL, so why take the risk and say "oh, we'll just sit him for a year?" I'm not cool with that.


I think its not a consensus as you make it out to be. I go back and forth all the time because I see the pros and cons.

Overlooking the durability and "love" of the game factor could backfire. Also we are drafting who will be the best QB over the length of there careers in NY. And the only reason I said we can sit Darnold a year. Is that we do have Eli and we can be patient and develop Darnold if we see him having the highest upside because of his arm strength, being able to read a defense, and ability make play with his leg.

I think we can all agree Darnold offensive line at USC this year was a sh*t show...and as giants fans we know how that f*cks up everything.

Honestly there pretty close in my eyes. The clear top 2...there is obviously more time to evaluate.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000909727/article/daniel-jeremiahs-top-50-prospects-for-2018-nfl-draft

I respect Jeremiah's breakdwon..he has both Darnold and Rosen pretty high one after the other...this is obviously not accounting for the QB bump guys get at the draft because of the importance of the position.


Meh, to me it is pretty black and white. I think Rosen has the best career simply because I don't buy the Darnold hype. On top of that, USC QBs not turning out well in the pros isn't really helping his cause. We can sit Rosen if we'd like also, so the sitting thing really doesn't mean anything.



I respect Mayock the most out of any draft guy - "Rosen from a pure thrower perspective is as gifted as any I've seen in many years...no doubt about that..."

Going to be interesting to see how this plays out, but I have Rosen, Lamar, and Mayfield above Darnold in terms of who I'd want.


I love mayock as well so I can't wait to get a more up to date review when the combine starts with Mayock.

Mayock does seem to be very high on Darnold as well loves his competitiveness, leadership, and the fact he is a really good athlete. Speaks about him being a 20 ppg high school athlete in basketball. If you think you can develop him (i mean if Shurmur thinks he can) I can for sure see the upside.

All the prospects have question marks.

Darnold - most of snaps out of shotgun can be turnover prone
Rosen - injuries and love of the game concerns (injuries are huge in my opinion) - no deny his ability to throw the rock
Allen - Just don't have enough info on the dude
Mayfield - measurables and I don't see him as a NY Giants QB
Jackson - durability in the pros, mechanics accuracy

they all have there pros too. It really just come downs to grinding during the scouting process and picking the right one. I don't know if any of us are privy to the same information the decision makers will be going over who they dated in middle school :lol:
BAF Spurs:

C - Anthony Davis/Zach Collins/Georgios Papa
PF - Dragan Bender/JMM
SF - Jaylen Brown/Bogdan Bogdanovic/Loul Deng
SG - Tim Hardaway Jr/E'twaun Moore/Wayne Seldon/Tomas Satoransky
PG - Kris Dunn/Shabazz Napier/Fred VanVleet

$47 cap remaining
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Re: Giants expected to hire Pat Shurmur as new coach 

Post#158 » by mpharris36 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:07 pm

IllmaticHandler wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
IllmaticHandler wrote:

There were not good QBs later on thoe. So its MUCH different this time around.


thats fare. There are people a lot higher on Mayfield/Jackson then some though. If you are one...which it seems you are it would be a lot easier to trade down. If you are not as high, it would be a lot more difficult to trade down.

I see no way the Mara's are picking Mayfield...I just don't see it. I guess I could be wrong...


well you know I am Jackson fan...so he would be my choice. :lol:


I do know that, which I why I could def understand you being more ok with trading down.
BAF Spurs:

C - Anthony Davis/Zach Collins/Georgios Papa
PF - Dragan Bender/JMM
SF - Jaylen Brown/Bogdan Bogdanovic/Loul Deng
SG - Tim Hardaway Jr/E'twaun Moore/Wayne Seldon/Tomas Satoransky
PG - Kris Dunn/Shabazz Napier/Fred VanVleet

$47 cap remaining
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Re: Giants expected to hire Pat Shurmur as new coach 

Post#159 » by Knickstape1214 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:07 pm

IllmaticHandler wrote:Im really liking this AZ dude over Del Rio thoe. He is my choice.

Honestly, I don't know to really talk about either. :lol: Only questions I have are 1) how much of AZ's defensive success is attributable to the DC vs the actual players (I know the DC puts the players in position, but they have some damn talented guys on that side of the ball) and 2) how much of the Raiders' lack of defensive success is on the lack of high level players (besides Bowman? and Mack)?
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Re: Giants expected to hire Pat Shurmur as new coach 

Post#160 » by mpharris36 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:09 pm

IllmaticHandler wrote:Im really liking this AZ dude over Del Rio thoe. He is my choice.


I like him too, del rio been a HC a lot but when he solely focused on the defense he's been a beast too and the early reports are Shurmur will probably call the plays so it won't hurt to have Del Rio who's been a HC for plenty of years having a little more control since Shurmur most likely will be more involved with the offense.

But I do like the idea of a young up and coming DC...he does run a 3-4 though so we would need to change some personnel and draft a ton of linebackers :lol:
BAF Spurs:

C - Anthony Davis/Zach Collins/Georgios Papa
PF - Dragan Bender/JMM
SF - Jaylen Brown/Bogdan Bogdanovic/Loul Deng
SG - Tim Hardaway Jr/E'twaun Moore/Wayne Seldon/Tomas Satoransky
PG - Kris Dunn/Shabazz Napier/Fred VanVleet

$47 cap remaining

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