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2017/18 College & Draft Thread - Trini Birthday Edition! (Pt 4)

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Knicks pick OUTSIDE top 4 (Bags, Doncic, Ayton, Bamba off board)

Mikal Bridges
15
24%
Miles Bridges
5
8%
Michael Porter Jr
18
29%
Trae Young
2
3%
Jaren Jackson Jr
15
24%
Kevin Knox
1
2%
Wendell Carter
3
5%
Colin Sexton
2
3%
Robert Williams
0
No votes
Other
2
3%
 
Total votes: 63

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Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread - Trini Birthday Edition! (Pt 4) 

Post#741 » by dakomish23 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:15 am

Did anyone already post this article on JJJ?

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/2/6/16976438/jaren-jackson-jr-best-big-man-draft

Jaren Jackson Jr. Is the Most Complete Big Man of the 2018 NBA Draft

Spoiler:
Jaren Jackson Jr. Is the Most Complete Big Man of the 2018 NBA Draft

The Michigan State freshman won’t be the first big you think of in a class loaded with giants, but unlike his high-upside peers, Jackson’s unicorn skill set is already a reality. And he’s only 18.

Jonathan TjarksFeb 6, 2018, 5:50am EST
Getty Images/Ringer illustration
Jaren Jackson Jr. has a chance to be the best big man in the 2018 NBA draft. He’s certainly the best two-way player of the bunch right now, better defensively than Deandre Ayton and Marvin Bagley III and better offensively than Mohamed Bamba. Jackson fits the new prototype for NBA centers: He knocks down 3s, protects the rim, and defends the 3-point line. Despite being the youngest player likely to enter the draft, he’s also one of the safest picks. He won’t have to change his game to be an elite player at the next level. The only thing holding him back is being underutilized in the Michigan State offense. He has the highest floor of all the freshman bigs and more upside than his stats suggest.

Jackson is a new kind of defensive anchor. At 6-foot-11 and 242 pounds, his frame is right in the sweet spot between size and speed. He’s big enough to be a dominant presence inside without sacrificing his ability to guard on the perimeter. Jackson is the cornerstone of the no. 9 defense in the country as a freshman. According to the tracking numbers at hooplens.com, the Spartans give up 0.87 points per possession when he’s in and 0.98 points per possession when he’s out. He’s the only starter the team defends better with when he’s on the floor than when he’s off.

Bamba gets the Rudy Gobert comparisons, but Jackson is the more effective defender. While he doesn’t have Bamba’s freakish physical dimensions, he actually blocks more shots per minute. He blocks 15.4 percent of the opposing team’s 2-point field goal attempts when he’s on the floor, which would be the highest block rate of any player drafted in the lottery since they began tracking the stat in 2010. He has everything an elite interior defender needs: He has a 7-foot-4 wingspan that covers the rim, he’s fast enough to rotate across the court quickly and cut off dribble penetration, he keeps his head on a swivel and always knows where the other nine players on the floor are, and he never gives up on plays.

Jackson does all this despite rarely playing center. He has spent 84.9 percent of his time on the floor this season as a power forward next to one of three traditional big men (sophomore Nick Ward, senior Gavin Schilling, or freshman Xavier Tillman). Jackson guards the smaller and faster frontcourt player on the opposing team, so he’s often chasing small-ball 4s around the perimeter. It’s valuable experience for the next level, where he will have to switch screens and stay with shooters above the 3-point line, regardless of the position he plays.

His most interesting individual assignment so far was Ohio State’s Keita Bates-Diop, an athletic 6-foot-7 junior combo forward who will likely be a first-round pick in this year’s draft. Bates-Diop’s ability to score all over the floor has made him a breakout star this season, and he is the type of versatile wing Jackson will need to contain off the dribble in the NBA. In their game on January 7, Bates-Diop went 3-of-6 from the field with one turnover and one drawn foul in eight possessions during which Jackson was the primary defender, including one when Jackson shadowed him from the 3-point line to the rim and blocked his shot.

Jackson’s defense is hard to miss, but his contributions on offense can slip through the cracks. He doesn’t get the chance to fully show his game. He is the fifth option at Michigan State, averaging 11.4 points, 6.2 rebounds, and 1.2 assists per game on 52.2 percent shooting. He takes only 6.4 field goal attempts per game, compared to 8.9 for Bamba, 12.3 for Ayton, and 13.7 for Bagley. Jackson starts next to another projected lottery pick at small forward (Miles Bridges), a dominant low-post threat at center (Ward), a quality point guard (Cassius Winston), and a McDonald’s All American at shooting guard (Joshua Langford). This is Tom Izzo’s most talented team in his 23 seasons as the head coach in East Lansing.

The Spartans don’t need Jackson to do much beyond space the floor. Three-point shooting is in his blood. His father, Jaren Jackson Sr., was a shooting specialist who spent 12 seasons in the NBA. The son’s form is unorthodox, as he swings the ball in front of his face and almost pushes it toward the basket, but he has consistent mechanics and he gets it off quickly. Defenders have to stay attached to him. According to the tracking numbers at Synergy Sports, he averages 1.259 points per possession this season on guarded jumpers. Jackson is by far the best shooter of the elite bigs in this class:

Top Big-Man Prospects of 2018, by the (Shooting) Numbers

Jaren Jackson Jr. Michigan State 67 43.3 113 78.76
Marvin Bagley III Duke 48 35.42 161 62.11
Mo Bamba Texas 39 28.2 87 67.8
Deandre Ayton Arizona 26 34.6 124 73.39
There’s little chance that Jackson will bust — players with his skill set don’t need a huge role on offense to be incredibly valuable. This is not a guy on a hot streak. He has a track record of knocking down shots. He shot 28-for-64 from deep (43.8 percent) last summer on the Nike EYBL circuit. Jackson projects as an elite shooter and shot blocker, and there’s no obvious comparison to make for him at the next level. He’s a hybrid of Serge Ibaka and Myles Turner. Ayton, Bagley, and Bamba may jump off the screen more when you watch them play, but Jackson is the closest thing to a 3-and-D unicorn in this draft.

His two-way impact isn’t just something to project to the NBA level. It translates to the NCAA right now. Switching Jackson with any of his peers would significantly improve their college teams. Neither Ayton nor Bagley is much of an interior defender, and defense has been the Achilles heel for Arizona (no. 196 in the country) and Duke (no. 110) this season. Bamba can’t force his man out of the paint, and Texas is no. 328 in the country in 3-point percentage. There are trade-offs to playing big men who excel on only one end of the floor. Jackson makes his teammates better on both. He creates space for them on offense and covers for them on defense.

Jackson’s shooting ability will be even more important in the NBA, where having shooters at every position is becoming a necessity. A center who can shoot 3s gives the offense room to breathe and creates huge driving lanes to the rim for his guards. Jackson is a perfect fit for the spread pick-and-roll, which almost every NBA team runs these days. A team that drafts Ayton or Bagley would have to restructure its offense to emphasize what makes them so great in college: their ability to score out of the post. The problem is there’s a trade-off to keeping a big man in the lane. Perimeter players in the NBA these days aren’t as comfortable spotting up and throwing the ball inside, and they are too dynamic off the dribble to stand around waiting for it to come out.

There’s also nowhere to hide a poor defensive center in the NBA. Offenses will isolate them in the pick-and-roll and force them to make quick decisions in space — and there is much more space to cover at the next level. The 3-point line is farther out and professional shooters are deadlier than their NCAA counterparts. They get to the rim faster, and they are better finishers when they get there. It takes years for even good defensive prospects to learn the ropes at center. Players who struggle to protect the rim in college rarely figure out how in the NBA.

The conversation around the big men in this draft isn’t as clear-cut as it might appear. It’s easy to fall in love with college numbers in February, but skill set and projectability become more important the closer it gets to draft night. I talked to two executives from teams likely picking high in the lottery who agreed that Jackson could end up as the best player of the four. Every scout and talent evaluator I’ve talked to sees him as having a high floor. The debate in NBA front offices is about his ceiling.

Izzo has good reasons for not playing Jackson at the 5 in the regular season. College coaches have to run their program with one eye on the present and one on the future. Ward should be Michigan State’s primary option next season when Bridges and Jackson are in the NBA; benching him now could mean losing him forever. Schilling has earned the right to play as a senior, and Tillman needs to be developed for a bigger role as a sophomore. Izzo may be saving his best lineups for March. In 132 possessions with Bridges at the 4 and Jackson at the 5 this season, Michigan State has an offensive rating of 126 and a defensive rating of 101.

Jackson would have more room to operate as a center. He’s not just a spot-up shooter. He can put the ball on the floor and make straight-line drives when defenders press up on him. Jackson has had several plays this season in which he’s faced up his man, gotten to the rim in two steps, and dunked in traffic. It’s easier to make those plays at the 5 than the 4. Given the way the league is trending, Jackson will probably not play with a big man like Ward who clogs up the paint in the NBA.

Jackson makes the most of his chances on offense. He just hasn’t gotten many. He is in the 97th percentile of players around the country as a post scorer in 35 possessions, and he’s in the 73rd percentile as the screener in the pick-and-roll in 20 possessions. Jackson plays to his strengths, and he doesn’t take bad shots. He has only one long 2-point jumper all season. He has the lowest 2-point percentage of the four elite big men, but has the highest true shooting percentage because his possessions often end in either 3s or free throws:

Top Big-Man Prospects of 2018, by the (Advanced Shooting) Numbers

Ayton 66.5 65.6 0.088 0.419
Jackson 66.8 58.7 0.421 0.771
Bagley 63.1 64.3 0.153 0.513
Bamba 60.5 62.2 0.2 0.446
To be sure, Jackson has some clear limitations. He’s not quite as athletic as his peers, which you can see in his 2-point percentage, and his shooting motion makes it difficult for him to shoot off the dribble, since he’s swinging the ball in front of his face. Like most young left-handed players, Jackson almost never goes to his right. He doesn’t have many advanced post moves, either. He’s just so much bigger and more athletic than the defenders he faces at the 4 that it doesn’t matter. Jackson also hasn’t shown much ability as a passer, averaging 1.2 assists and 2.1 turnovers per game.

His biggest issue this season has just been staying on the floor. Jackson plays only 23.0 minutes per game because he averages 5.7 fouls per 40 minutes of playing time. Like a lot of young shot blockers, Jackson is still learning to channel his aggressiveness. A player who tries to block every shot is vulnerable to pump fakes, and more experienced players can get under him and draw contact. He’s not done growing into his body. He has put on 15–20 pounds of muscle over the past nine months, and he’s still learning how to use his newfound strength.

His flaws are understandable when you take age into account. Jackson turned 18 in September. He’s 16 months younger than Bamba and 14 months younger than Ayton. He’s six months younger than Bagley, even though Bagley reclassified before the season to skip his senior year of high school. One year of physical development is a big deal for a teenager, and Jackson has spent his whole life playing against older players. He’s one of the best players in the country even though he should still be in high school. Freshmen have a lot of room to grow their game. Jackson has even more than most.

Jackson may never be a primary option. The good news is that he doesn’t need to score 20 a game to be an elite player. A big man with his specific talents changes the geometry of the floor. A team with Jackson at the 5 can play five-out on both sides of the ball. They will space the floor more than a team with Bamba, and guard more of it than one with Ayton or Bagley. Jackson doesn’t have their stats in college, but he’s playing on a better team. The same thing could happen in the NBA.
Dkillanyk4lyf wrote:Melo is the reason why we are in the mess we are in now. Acquiring him was the biggest mistake in knicks history.


blueNorange wrote:good thing knicks have kanter because willy looking pedestrian af
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Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread - Trini Birthday Edition! (Pt 4) 

Post#742 » by jvsimonetti0514 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:29 am



Pretty impressive game. He's got one dribble drive dish that makes him look like a wing.
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Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread - Trini Birthday Edition! (Pt 4) 

Post#743 » by fatalogic » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:38 am

dakomish23 wrote:Did anyone already post this article on JJJ?

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/2/6/16976438/jaren-jackson-jr-best-big-man-draft

Jaren Jackson Jr. Is the Most Complete Big Man of the 2018 NBA Draft

Spoiler:
Jaren Jackson Jr. Is the Most Complete Big Man of the 2018 NBA Draft

The Michigan State freshman won’t be the first big you think of in a class loaded with giants, but unlike his high-upside peers, Jackson’s unicorn skill set is already a reality. And he’s only 18.

Jonathan TjarksFeb 6, 2018, 5:50am EST
Getty Images/Ringer illustration
Jaren Jackson Jr. has a chance to be the best big man in the 2018 NBA draft. He’s certainly the best two-way player of the bunch right now, better defensively than Deandre Ayton and Marvin Bagley III and better offensively than Mohamed Bamba. Jackson fits the new prototype for NBA centers: He knocks down 3s, protects the rim, and defends the 3-point line. Despite being the youngest player likely to enter the draft, he’s also one of the safest picks. He won’t have to change his game to be an elite player at the next level. The only thing holding him back is being underutilized in the Michigan State offense. He has the highest floor of all the freshman bigs and more upside than his stats suggest.

Jackson is a new kind of defensive anchor. At 6-foot-11 and 242 pounds, his frame is right in the sweet spot between size and speed. He’s big enough to be a dominant presence inside without sacrificing his ability to guard on the perimeter. Jackson is the cornerstone of the no. 9 defense in the country as a freshman. According to the tracking numbers at hooplens.com, the Spartans give up 0.87 points per possession when he’s in and 0.98 points per possession when he’s out. He’s the only starter the team defends better with when he’s on the floor than when he’s off.

Bamba gets the Rudy Gobert comparisons, but Jackson is the more effective defender. While he doesn’t have Bamba’s freakish physical dimensions, he actually blocks more shots per minute. He blocks 15.4 percent of the opposing team’s 2-point field goal attempts when he’s on the floor, which would be the highest block rate of any player drafted in the lottery since they began tracking the stat in 2010. He has everything an elite interior defender needs: He has a 7-foot-4 wingspan that covers the rim, he’s fast enough to rotate across the court quickly and cut off dribble penetration, he keeps his head on a swivel and always knows where the other nine players on the floor are, and he never gives up on plays.

Jackson does all this despite rarely playing center. He has spent 84.9 percent of his time on the floor this season as a power forward next to one of three traditional big men (sophomore Nick Ward, senior Gavin Schilling, or freshman Xavier Tillman). Jackson guards the smaller and faster frontcourt player on the opposing team, so he’s often chasing small-ball 4s around the perimeter. It’s valuable experience for the next level, where he will have to switch screens and stay with shooters above the 3-point line, regardless of the position he plays.

His most interesting individual assignment so far was Ohio State’s Keita Bates-Diop, an athletic 6-foot-7 junior combo forward who will likely be a first-round pick in this year’s draft. Bates-Diop’s ability to score all over the floor has made him a breakout star this season, and he is the type of versatile wing Jackson will need to contain off the dribble in the NBA. In their game on January 7, Bates-Diop went 3-of-6 from the field with one turnover and one drawn foul in eight possessions during which Jackson was the primary defender, including one when Jackson shadowed him from the 3-point line to the rim and blocked his shot.

Jackson’s defense is hard to miss, but his contributions on offense can slip through the cracks. He doesn’t get the chance to fully show his game. He is the fifth option at Michigan State, averaging 11.4 points, 6.2 rebounds, and 1.2 assists per game on 52.2 percent shooting. He takes only 6.4 field goal attempts per game, compared to 8.9 for Bamba, 12.3 for Ayton, and 13.7 for Bagley. Jackson starts next to another projected lottery pick at small forward (Miles Bridges), a dominant low-post threat at center (Ward), a quality point guard (Cassius Winston), and a McDonald’s All American at shooting guard (Joshua Langford). This is Tom Izzo’s most talented team in his 23 seasons as the head coach in East Lansing.

The Spartans don’t need Jackson to do much beyond space the floor. Three-point shooting is in his blood. His father, Jaren Jackson Sr., was a shooting specialist who spent 12 seasons in the NBA. The son’s form is unorthodox, as he swings the ball in front of his face and almost pushes it toward the basket, but he has consistent mechanics and he gets it off quickly. Defenders have to stay attached to him. According to the tracking numbers at Synergy Sports, he averages 1.259 points per possession this season on guarded jumpers. Jackson is by far the best shooter of the elite bigs in this class:

Top Big-Man Prospects of 2018, by the (Shooting) Numbers

Jaren Jackson Jr. Michigan State 67 43.3 113 78.76
Marvin Bagley III Duke 48 35.42 161 62.11
Mo Bamba Texas 39 28.2 87 67.8
Deandre Ayton Arizona 26 34.6 124 73.39
There’s little chance that Jackson will bust — players with his skill set don’t need a huge role on offense to be incredibly valuable. This is not a guy on a hot streak. He has a track record of knocking down shots. He shot 28-for-64 from deep (43.8 percent) last summer on the Nike EYBL circuit. Jackson projects as an elite shooter and shot blocker, and there’s no obvious comparison to make for him at the next level. He’s a hybrid of Serge Ibaka and Myles Turner. Ayton, Bagley, and Bamba may jump off the screen more when you watch them play, but Jackson is the closest thing to a 3-and-D unicorn in this draft.

His two-way impact isn’t just something to project to the NBA level. It translates to the NCAA right now. Switching Jackson with any of his peers would significantly improve their college teams. Neither Ayton nor Bagley is much of an interior defender, and defense has been the Achilles heel for Arizona (no. 196 in the country) and Duke (no. 110) this season. Bamba can’t force his man out of the paint, and Texas is no. 328 in the country in 3-point percentage. There are trade-offs to playing big men who excel on only one end of the floor. Jackson makes his teammates better on both. He creates space for them on offense and covers for them on defense.

Jackson’s shooting ability will be even more important in the NBA, where having shooters at every position is becoming a necessity. A center who can shoot 3s gives the offense room to breathe and creates huge driving lanes to the rim for his guards. Jackson is a perfect fit for the spread pick-and-roll, which almost every NBA team runs these days. A team that drafts Ayton or Bagley would have to restructure its offense to emphasize what makes them so great in college: their ability to score out of the post. The problem is there’s a trade-off to keeping a big man in the lane. Perimeter players in the NBA these days aren’t as comfortable spotting up and throwing the ball inside, and they are too dynamic off the dribble to stand around waiting for it to come out.

There’s also nowhere to hide a poor defensive center in the NBA. Offenses will isolate them in the pick-and-roll and force them to make quick decisions in space — and there is much more space to cover at the next level. The 3-point line is farther out and professional shooters are deadlier than their NCAA counterparts. They get to the rim faster, and they are better finishers when they get there. It takes years for even good defensive prospects to learn the ropes at center. Players who struggle to protect the rim in college rarely figure out how in the NBA.

The conversation around the big men in this draft isn’t as clear-cut as it might appear. It’s easy to fall in love with college numbers in February, but skill set and projectability become more important the closer it gets to draft night. I talked to two executives from teams likely picking high in the lottery who agreed that Jackson could end up as the best player of the four. Every scout and talent evaluator I’ve talked to sees him as having a high floor. The debate in NBA front offices is about his ceiling.

Izzo has good reasons for not playing Jackson at the 5 in the regular season. College coaches have to run their program with one eye on the present and one on the future. Ward should be Michigan State’s primary option next season when Bridges and Jackson are in the NBA; benching him now could mean losing him forever. Schilling has earned the right to play as a senior, and Tillman needs to be developed for a bigger role as a sophomore. Izzo may be saving his best lineups for March. In 132 possessions with Bridges at the 4 and Jackson at the 5 this season, Michigan State has an offensive rating of 126 and a defensive rating of 101.

Jackson would have more room to operate as a center. He’s not just a spot-up shooter. He can put the ball on the floor and make straight-line drives when defenders press up on him. Jackson has had several plays this season in which he’s faced up his man, gotten to the rim in two steps, and dunked in traffic. It’s easier to make those plays at the 5 than the 4. Given the way the league is trending, Jackson will probably not play with a big man like Ward who clogs up the paint in the NBA.

Jackson makes the most of his chances on offense. He just hasn’t gotten many. He is in the 97th percentile of players around the country as a post scorer in 35 possessions, and he’s in the 73rd percentile as the screener in the pick-and-roll in 20 possessions. Jackson plays to his strengths, and he doesn’t take bad shots. He has only one long 2-point jumper all season. He has the lowest 2-point percentage of the four elite big men, but has the highest true shooting percentage because his possessions often end in either 3s or free throws:

Top Big-Man Prospects of 2018, by the (Advanced Shooting) Numbers

Ayton 66.5 65.6 0.088 0.419
Jackson 66.8 58.7 0.421 0.771
Bagley 63.1 64.3 0.153 0.513
Bamba 60.5 62.2 0.2 0.446
To be sure, Jackson has some clear limitations. He’s not quite as athletic as his peers, which you can see in his 2-point percentage, and his shooting motion makes it difficult for him to shoot off the dribble, since he’s swinging the ball in front of his face. Like most young left-handed players, Jackson almost never goes to his right. He doesn’t have many advanced post moves, either. He’s just so much bigger and more athletic than the defenders he faces at the 4 that it doesn’t matter. Jackson also hasn’t shown much ability as a passer, averaging 1.2 assists and 2.1 turnovers per game.

His biggest issue this season has just been staying on the floor. Jackson plays only 23.0 minutes per game because he averages 5.7 fouls per 40 minutes of playing time. Like a lot of young shot blockers, Jackson is still learning to channel his aggressiveness. A player who tries to block every shot is vulnerable to pump fakes, and more experienced players can get under him and draw contact. He’s not done growing into his body. He has put on 15–20 pounds of muscle over the past nine months, and he’s still learning how to use his newfound strength.

His flaws are understandable when you take age into account. Jackson turned 18 in September. He’s 16 months younger than Bamba and 14 months younger than Ayton. He’s six months younger than Bagley, even though Bagley reclassified before the season to skip his senior year of high school. One year of physical development is a big deal for a teenager, and Jackson has spent his whole life playing against older players. He’s one of the best players in the country even though he should still be in high school. Freshmen have a lot of room to grow their game. Jackson has even more than most.

Jackson may never be a primary option. The good news is that he doesn’t need to score 20 a game to be an elite player. A big man with his specific talents changes the geometry of the floor. A team with Jackson at the 5 can play five-out on both sides of the ball. They will space the floor more than a team with Bamba, and guard more of it than one with Ayton or Bagley. Jackson doesn’t have their stats in college, but he’s playing on a better team. The same thing could happen in the NBA.

Who wrote this trash. How are the Knicks going to draft him if the media starts hyping him up. :nonono:
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Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread - Trini Birthday Edition! (Pt 4) 

Post#744 » by Bklyn&company » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:22 am

jvsimonetti0514 wrote:

Pretty impressive game. He's got one dribble drive dish that makes him look like a wing.

Someone else is catching the vision.... +1
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Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread - Trini Birthday Edition! (Pt 4) 

Post#745 » by Da_Mane_Man » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:36 am

3toheadmelo wrote:
Clyde Frazier wrote:Calling all people actually following draft stuff already...

Any wings (preferably plus defenders) in 30-45 range worth taking a flyer on?




Khyri Thomas' jumper kind of reminds of Michael Finley
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Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread - Trini Birthday Edition! (Pt 4) 

Post#746 » by Da_Mane_Man » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:37 am

Bklyn&company wrote:
jvsimonetti0514 wrote:

Pretty impressive game. He's got one dribble drive dish that makes him look like a wing.

Someone else is catching the vision.... +1


That jumper though ... makes me cringe every time I see it. I have no idea how it goes in. Love his overall game though. He would be a nice fit next to KP. Especially once he develops his body.
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Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread - Trini Birthday Edition! (Pt 4) 

Post#747 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:02 am

Da_Mane_Man wrote:
Bklyn&company wrote:
jvsimonetti0514 wrote:

Pretty impressive game. He's got one dribble drive dish that makes him look like a wing.

Someone else is catching the vision.... +1


That jumper though ... makes me cringe every time I see it. I have no idea how it goes in. Love his overall game though. He would be a nice fit next to KP. Especially once he develops his body.


That shot won't work in the NBA. Ew. It's all messed up. Fcking AAU ball. He's definitely a physical specimen. Looks more like a project to me. We need athletic wings who can shoot.
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Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread - Trini Birthday Edition! (Pt 4) 

Post#748 » by Flaming Mo » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:11 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:That shot won't work in the NBA. Ew. It's all messed up. Fcking AAU ball. He's definitely a physical specimen. Looks more like a project to me. We need athletic wings who can shoot.


He hit it on every level and is a great free throw shooter which ususally is a great indicator if you are a good shooter or not. That translates easily. Now he will not pull up after dribbling the ball one on one like a guard but nobody needs that. He is dynamite as a spot up shooter and that lone will lead to terrific spacing and a lot of possibilites...

Why I agree on the need for athletic wings and that JJJ is still a bit raw, he has already developed A TON over the course of the year and already looks like a different player than he was at the beginning of the season. Plus considering how young he is we got tremendous potential there...
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Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread - Trini Birthday Edition! (Pt 4) 

Post#749 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:25 am

Flaming Mo wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:That shot won't work in the NBA. Ew. It's all messed up. Fcking AAU ball. He's definitely a physical specimen. Looks more like a project to me. We need athletic wings who can shoot.


He hit it on every level and is a great free throw shooter which ususally is a great indicator if you are a good shooter or not. That translates easily. Now he will not pull up after dribbling the ball one on one like a guard but nobody needs that. He is dynamite as a spot up shooter and that lone will lead to terrific spacing and a lot of possibilites...

Why I agree on the need for athletic wings and that JJJ is still a bit raw, he has already developed A TON over the course of the year and already looks like a different player than he was at the beginning of the season. Plus considering how young he is we got tremendous potential there...


Ok. I'm not saying the guy won't be good eventually. As a spot up shooter? We already have KP with Kornet and Beasley backing him up. We just don't need a spot up shooting center with a messed up looking release. Sorry Mo, you haven't convinced me that we should use our pick on this kid. I'm still sticking with looking for us to pick up the best SF available.
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Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread - Trini Birthday Edition! (Pt 4) 

Post#750 » by Bklyn&company » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:28 am

No one is saying to take JJJ over a Bagley, Ayton, Doncic type player or that he should be the #1 overall pick.... we all are aknowledging that he is at least a top prospect in this draft and should be a good fit for us if we don't get a top 3 pick... im sure most would agree...no player in this Draft is complete, each one of them have weakness in their games... I am sure we are all looking for NBA transferable skills in them and what can they bring to help our beloved Knicks. A high level of Defense and Perimeter Shooting are major weakness for us. If we can find a player to help in those areas at a high level... we won our draft.

Finding NBA transferable skills in a draft prospect are key.... especially finding skills that are impactful one the court day one. Shooting, Shooting out to the 3pt line at a high percentage, doing this off the P&R, spot up, catch and shooting and off the bounce. Passing, passing off penetration, moving without the ball, ball penetration (depend on position)...Defense, containing the perimeter, stopping ball penetration, defending the passing lane, fights over screens, quick lateral feet, lenght to distrub jump shots, ball denial, a willing defender. Above all ... someone that's a self motivator.
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Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread - Trini Birthday Edition! (Pt 4) 

Post#751 » by ny-n-md » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:48 am

jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
TheBigBoss wrote:
ny-n-md wrote:I’m sorry but it makes me want him even less. He doesn’t look so unique to me. He may very well turn out to be great, but I’d rather have Porter or Bamba. I think their skills translate better.

He reminds me of the overhyped Toni Kukoc. He was being billed as the best Euro player ever and like a Croatian Magic Johnson. He was good but never HOF good. He reminds me of him.

Don’t kill me it’s just my opinion.


You do realize that he is barely 17 years old in that clip playing against NBA players right?



Didn't they win that game too? He basically lead is Euroleague team to a win against OKC. We need to lottery gods to help us draft him.


I understand he’s young, but so is everybody else. I look at a player’s toolbox and whether it piques my interest. He just doesn’t do it for me. Good thing I’m not the GM. This board would have my head on a stick. Lol
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Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread - Trini Birthday Edition! (Pt 4) 

Post#752 » by Fat Kat » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:25 am

ny-n-md wrote:
jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
TheBigBoss wrote:
You do realize that he is barely 17 years old in that clip playing against NBA players right?



Didn't they win that game too? He basically lead is Euroleague team to a win against OKC. We need to lottery gods to help us draft him.


I understand he’s young, but so is everybody else. I look at a player’s toolbox and whether it piques my interest. He just doesn’t do it for me. Good thing I’m not the GM. This board would have my head on a stick. Lol


Think he’ll end up having a Steve Smith-like career.
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Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread - Trini Birthday Edition! (Pt 4) 

Post#753 » by Strick » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:57 am

Strick wrote:

This is a kid I really like watching. I have watched quite a few Arkansas games this year, because I think they're an entertaining team to watch. Daniel Gafford 6'11ish PF with crazy bounce and energy. One of those guys that tries to dunk over everyone and block any shot he can. I would be surprised if he comes out this year, but if returns for his sophomore year and works on his offense a bit, I think he could become a really solid player. At the very least I could see him being a really solid energy big off the bench that kind of brings that goon mentality to the floor.

Block and dunk sequence at 7:05 is nasty



Full game highlight of him vs Minnesota early in the year.

On a side note, I really like their G Dayrl Macon (#4). I just wish he was 6'5-6'6 instead of 6'3. I like the way the kid plays a lot.

Kid had a solid game tonight vs Ole Miss. He is fun to watch. He has a ways to go on offense as far as a jumper goes, but he has a ton of potential with his size, length, and athleticism. He has been getting a lot of buzz lately. I think the best move for him would be go back to school for his sophomore year and work on his offense. If he came out I wouldn't mind trying to snag him in the 2nd round. Perfect energy big early on.

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Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread - Trini Birthday Edition! (Pt 4) 

Post#754 » by IllmaticHandler » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:08 pm

Does Melo Like Lonnie Walker cause he is secretly a Brick Layer? Is he Lonnie Brick Jr on the low?


I just checked the FG% on the season and the last five games.

You call Jaren Jackson Thon Maker 2.0, But is Lonnie THJ 2.0?


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Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread - Trini Birthday Edition! (Pt 4) 

Post#755 » by blanko » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:59 pm

i know it is early, but i think that Zion willamson is not going to be a great pro. maybe a solid rotation player. He is to undersized for the league. He doesn't seem to have the passing and defensive acumen of a draymond green. He may be a barkley clone tho... But at this day and age, an undersized power foward taht doesn't protect the rim or hit threes at a high rate..
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Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread - Trini Birthday Edition! (Pt 4) 

Post#756 » by blanko » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:02 pm

we will have two lottery picks to pair with frank and KP. I think frank will be just fine.
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Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread - Trini Birthday Edition! (Pt 4) 

Post#757 » by 2010 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:16 pm

Bklyn&company wrote:No one is saying to take JJJ over a Bagley, Ayton, Doncic type player or that he should be the #1 overall pick.... we all are aknowledging that he is at least a top prospect in this draft and should be a good fit for us if we don't get a top 3 pick... im sure most would agree...no player in this Draft is complete, each one of them have weakness in their games... I am sure we are all looking for NBA transferable skills in them and what can they bring to help our beloved Knicks. A high level of Defense and Perimeter Shooting are major weakness for us. If we can find a player to help in those areas at a high level... we won our draft.

Finding NBA transferable skills in a draft prospect are key.... especially finding skills that are impactful one the court day one. Shooting, Shooting out to the 3pt line at a high percentage, doing this off the P&R, spot up, catch and shooting and off the bounce. Passing, passing off penetration, moving without the ball, ball penetration (depend on position)...Defense, containing the perimeter, stopping ball penetration, defending the passing lane, fights over screens, quick lateral feet, lenght to distrub jump shots, ball denial, a willing defender. Above all ... someone that's a self motivator.


I am actually saying JJJ will be better than Bagley. Maybe not in year 1, but ultimately he will be better and got a higher ceiling. More range, better rim protector, just as athletic, as good a handle, as good a passer, etc. Just wait till his body fills out and he is in the NBA with more court spacing to use his handle and attack close outs going to the rim.
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Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread - Trini Birthday Edition! (Pt 4) 

Post#758 » by mpharris36 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:24 pm

jvsimonetti0514 wrote:

Pretty impressive game. He's got one dribble drive dish that makes him look like a wing.


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Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread - Trini Birthday Edition! (Pt 4) 

Post#759 » by mpharris36 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:26 pm

2010 wrote:
Bklyn&company wrote:No one is saying to take JJJ over a Bagley, Ayton, Doncic type player or that he should be the #1 overall pick.... we all are aknowledging that he is at least a top prospect in this draft and should be a good fit for us if we don't get a top 3 pick... im sure most would agree...no player in this Draft is complete, each one of them have weakness in their games... I am sure we are all looking for NBA transferable skills in them and what can they bring to help our beloved Knicks. A high level of Defense and Perimeter Shooting are major weakness for us. If we can find a player to help in those areas at a high level... we won our draft.

Finding NBA transferable skills in a draft prospect are key.... especially finding skills that are impactful one the court day one. Shooting, Shooting out to the 3pt line at a high percentage, doing this off the P&R, spot up, catch and shooting and off the bounce. Passing, passing off penetration, moving without the ball, ball penetration (depend on position)...Defense, containing the perimeter, stopping ball penetration, defending the passing lane, fights over screens, quick lateral feet, lenght to distrub jump shots, ball denial, a willing defender. Above all ... someone that's a self motivator.


I am actually saying JJJ will be better than Bagley. Maybe not in year 1, but ultimately he will be better and got a higher ceiling. More range, better rim protector, just as athletic, as good a handle, as good a passer, etc. Just wait till his body fills out and he is in the NBA with more court spacing to use his handle and attack close outs going to the rim.



talking about frank or nah :lol:

no but seriously i'm loving JJJ game. I was a doncic/bagley/bamba guy...JJJ is starting to sneak into my top 3. Leaving Doncic aside because he is a wing, JJJ might be the best fitting big out of all the top picks playing alongside KP.
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Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread - Trini Birthday Edition! (Pt 4) 

Post#760 » by mpharris36 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:31 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
Flaming Mo wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:That shot won't work in the NBA. Ew. It's all messed up. Fcking AAU ball. He's definitely a physical specimen. Looks more like a project to me. We need athletic wings who can shoot.


He hit it on every level and is a great free throw shooter which ususally is a great indicator if you are a good shooter or not. That translates easily. Now he will not pull up after dribbling the ball one on one like a guard but nobody needs that. He is dynamite as a spot up shooter and that lone will lead to terrific spacing and a lot of possibilites...

Why I agree on the need for athletic wings and that JJJ is still a bit raw, he has already developed A TON over the course of the year and already looks like a different player than he was at the beginning of the season. Plus considering how young he is we got tremendous potential there...


Ok. I'm not saying the guy won't be good eventually. As a spot up shooter? We already have KP with Kornet and Beasley backing him up. We just don't need a spot up shooting center with a messed up looking release. Sorry Mo, you haven't convinced me that we should use our pick on this kid. I'm still sticking with looking for us to pick up the best SF available.


you can't reach though. If Doncic isn't there there the only other player worth a top 10 pick at that wing position is Mikal Bridges. Maybe Miles bridges but that would be a reach picking Miles over a prospect like JJJ IMO.

And as much as I love bridges...he will be 22 by the time he steps on an NBA floor...JJJ 19th birthday is going to be right around the start of the NBA season!
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